LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
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Rava
gboycottnut
disneychilly
Gunner
fa0019
majesticimperialman
bedfordwelsh
emack2
Geordie
SimonofSurrey
Taffineastbourne
offload
mckay1402
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eirebilly
Biltong
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ChequeredJersey
22 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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Who were the best 2 second rows ever?
LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
First topic message reminder :
Argh! I've deleted this topic twice now!
Same rules as before, Richard Hill was our Blindside giving a team of
15- Cullen/JPR
14- Lomu
13- O'Driscoll/Sella
12- Horan/ O'Driscoll
11- Campese
10- Carter
9- Edwards
8- Brooke
7- Jones
6- Hill
Subs = JPR/Cullen/Shane, Sella/Horan/John, vd Westhuizen, McCaw/Dallalgio
So now onto locks. Pick 2 please, unless you really can't decide. I haven't split the list into enforcers/lineout experts or 1st/2nd jumpers, but feel free to take the balance into account when you vote. Please post Other and state your choice if your choice is not available.
Argh! I've deleted this topic twice now!
Same rules as before, Richard Hill was our Blindside giving a team of
15- Cullen/JPR
14- Lomu
13- O'Driscoll/Sella
12- Horan/ O'Driscoll
11- Campese
10- Carter
9- Edwards
8- Brooke
7- Jones
6- Hill
Subs = JPR/Cullen/Shane, Sella/Horan/John, vd Westhuizen, McCaw/Dallalgio
So now onto locks. Pick 2 please, unless you really can't decide. I haven't split the list into enforcers/lineout experts or 1st/2nd jumpers, but feel free to take the balance into account when you vote. Please post Other and state your choice if your choice is not available.
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-24
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
fa0019 wrote:roddersm
If Johnson was 10 years younger and hadn't started his game in the amateur era he would have been more athletic too... its a different game these days.
Fair point indeed.
I still maintain that whilst Johnson was an astute and inspirational captain, he wasn't the best 2nd row I've seen from a playing perspective and often outshone by his 2nd row partners, which isn't true of O'Connell.
For example I think Shaw was arguably better than Johnson and Kay and Davison outperformed him for England and the Lions respectively at times.
Its just an opinion I've had for a while, perhaps my memory deceives me a bit. Johnson is a legend no question.
rodders- Moderator
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Re: LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
Not that I am punting Victor Matfield here, but has there ever been a lock that dominated line out play for as long as he did?
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
biltongbek wrote:Not that I am punting Victor Matfield here, but has there ever been a lock that dominated line out play for as long as he did?
He was something special thats for sure. Thats why i picked him and Eales
eirebilly- Posts : 24807
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Re: LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
roddersm wrote:fa0019 wrote:roddersm
If Johnson was 10 years younger and hadn't started his game in the amateur era he would have been more athletic too... its a different game these days.
Fair point indeed.
I still maintain that whilst Johnson was an astute and inspirational captain, he wasn't the best 2nd row I've seen from a playing perspective and often outshone by his 2nd row partners, which isn't true of O'Connell.
For example I think Shaw was arguably better than Johnson and Kay and Davison outperformed him for England and the Lions respectively at times.
Its just an opinion I've had for a while, perhaps my memory deceives me a bit. Johnson is a legend no question.
Maybe it was his unseen graft / work that allowed the other SR to play better....
Geordie- Posts : 28849
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Location : Newcastle
Re: LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
I am proud of you Billy.
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
And with a full head of hair too Biltong.
Thats why I went for him and POC. The guy was amazing.
Thats why I went for him and POC. The guy was amazing.
rodders- Moderator
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Re: LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Maybe it was his unseen graft / work that allowed the other SR to play better....
Quite possibly. Like I say its a long time since I've seen Johno play obviously, whereas O'Connells career is a bit fresher in my mind. Its not a definitive view, just an observation. Just throwing it out there.
rodders- Moderator
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Re: LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
roddersm wrote:And with a full head of hair too Biltong.
Thats why I went for him and POC. The guy was amazing.
See this is how you get to know who your friends are.
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
And this is a debating site chief....feel free to throw all ideas out here...
Geordie- Posts : 28849
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Newcastle
Re: LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
Any idea?
....
Nah, got nothing.
....
Nah, got nothing.
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
roddersm wrote:fa0019 wrote:roddersm
If Johnson was 10 years younger and hadn't started his game in the amateur era he would have been more athletic too... its a different game these days.
Fair point indeed.
I still maintain that whilst Johnson was an astute and inspirational captain, he wasn't the best 2nd row I've seen from a playing perspective and often outshone by his 2nd row partners, which isn't true of O'Connell.
For example I think Shaw was arguably better than Johnson and Kay and Davison outperformed him for England and the Lions respectively at times.
Its just an opinion I've had for a while, perhaps my memory deceives me a bit. Johnson is a legend no question.
I agree with Rodders - Martin Johnson was a great inspirational leader but not the most technical or athletic of locks. I remember a very young Paul O'Connell & DOC combination destroying a Johnson/Kay partnership in Welford Road just before England went on to win the world cup.
While I don't think Paul O'Connell is the best ever lock in the world, I do think he was a better lock than Martin Johnson. If you're putting Johnson in there, you are putting him in for his leadership qualities.
It should also be remember that Victor Matfield rated Paul O'Connell as his toughest opponent.
Sin é- Posts : 13725
Join date : 2011-04-02
Location : Dublin
Re: LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
Sin é wrote:
I agree with Rodders
rodders- Moderator
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Age : 43
Re: LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2
Sin é wrote:roddersm wrote:fa0019 wrote:roddersm
If Johnson was 10 years younger and hadn't started his game in the amateur era he would have been more athletic too... its a different game these days.
Fair point indeed.
I still maintain that whilst Johnson was an astute and inspirational captain, he wasn't the best 2nd row I've seen from a playing perspective and often outshone by his 2nd row partners, which isn't true of O'Connell.
For example I think Shaw was arguably better than Johnson and Kay and Davison outperformed him for England and the Lions respectively at times.
Its just an opinion I've had for a while, perhaps my memory deceives me a bit. Johnson is a legend no question.
I agree with Rodders - Martin Johnson was a great inspirational leader but not the most technical or athletic of locks. I remember a very young Paul O'Connell & DOC combination destroying a Johnson/Kay partnership in Welford Road just before England went on to win the world cup.
While I don't think Paul O'Connell is the best ever lock in the world, I do think he was a better lock than Martin Johnson. If you're putting Johnson in there, you are putting him in for his leadership qualities.
It should also be remember that Victor Matfield rated Paul O'Connell as his toughest opponent.
He did sort of rate him as his toughest opponent but he didn't for example say he was better than his team mate (Bakkies)
He also didn't suggest that POC was as good as himself.
nganboy- Posts : 1868
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Age : 55
Location : New Zealand
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