Tight head Prop Choices of the Home Nations

Lets look at who the board rate as the best Tightheads possible suggestions for the Lions next year.

Pick TWO Tightheads from the Poll below.

Maest

No brainer surely

Jones & Cole

wickedwasp wrote:Maest

No brainer surely

Jones & Cole

+1 (and 99% of everyone else probably)

doctornickolas wrote:

wickedwasp wrote:Maest

No brainer surely

Jones & Cole

+1 (and 99% of everyone else probably)

That game England vs Ireland really demolished the reputation of the Irish Props. Prior to that match many posters were selecting Healey and Ross over Gethins and Adam.

JOnes & Cole...yup no brainer

One of the easiest picks - the Hair Bear and Dan Cole. The bigger debate will be over which one should start: Jones is probably the better scrummager but Cole offers more in open play.

Sorry to be pernickity, but Jon Welsh is really a loosehead - that's where he received his debut cap against Italy

Jones and Cole.

The Scottish scrum really struggled against the French and Mike Ross hasn't had a great season imo, I don't think hes fit enough and is overused by Ireland because of the lack of options.

In fairness to the Irish scrum it was very solid up until the England game and is noticibly weaker when Donnacha Ryan plays.

roddersm wrote:Jones and Cole.

The Scottish scrum really struggled against the French and Mike Ross hasn't had a great season imo, I don't think hes fit enough and is overused by Ireland because of the lack of options.

In fairness to the Irish scrum it was very solid up until the England game and is noticibly weaker when Donnacha Ryan plays.

Yes Dan Cole is luckily usually a bench player or subbed at Tigers.

Rodders
good point bout the importance of the 2nd row in supporting their prop. Scotland v France the scrum was even with the starting packs. Murray was then brought on and held his own in the first couple of scrums, but then Hamilton was replaced by Kellock and suddenly Scotland were going backwards at a rate not seen since Sheridan and Dunning faced each other (although subsequently surpassed by the Irish pack against England).

Jones & Cole

Court is not a tighthead.

maestegmafia wrote:

roddersm wrote:Jones and Cole.

The Scottish scrum really struggled against the French and Mike Ross hasn't had a great season imo, I don't think hes fit enough and is overused by Ireland because of the lack of options.

In fairness to the Irish scrum it was very solid up until the England game and is noticibly weaker when Donnacha Ryan plays.

Yes Dan Cole is luckily usually a bench player or subbed at Tigers.

Well he is rotated with Castro. Tigers are lucky to have 2 world class THs.

He has probably played more game time for Tigers than Jones for the Ospreys.

Tight heads are treasured creatures and need to be looked after if they are that good.

Cole doesn't look like a tighthead. Very svelte (is that the right word) for a prop. Great technique and good around the park. Could be bedrock of England scrum for next 10 years.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

roddersm wrote:Jones and Cole.

The Scottish scrum really struggled against the French and Mike Ross hasn't had a great season imo, I don't think hes fit enough and is overused by Ireland because of the lack of options.

In fairness to the Irish scrum it was very solid up until the England game and is noticibly weaker when Donnacha Ryan plays.

Yes Dan Cole is luckily usually a bench player or subbed at Tigers.

Well he is rotated with Castro. Tigers are lucky to have 2 world class THs.

He has probably played more game time for Tigers than Jones for the Ospreys.

Tight heads are treasured creatures and need to be looked after if they are that good.

Not sure whether anyone bar diehard, unobjective England/Tigers fans would seriouly consider Dan Cole Worldclass...? That is a pretty big exageration.

Anyhow nature of modern game we may well see the Lions take three tightheads.

Maest

too early to start throwing around world class, I agree.

But, he does have the potential to be, I think

no brainer to me this one: Cole and Jones stand quite a way above the rest of the options IMO. Cole has really gone from strength to strength in the last year and a half or so and is now arguably England's most important player.

wickedwasp wrote:Maest

too early to start throwing around world class, I agree.

But, he does have the potential to be, I think

great technique good around the field just a bit lightweight. Short is fine for a prop but light weight is not good when you face a big bulky Loosehead, with a monster pack behind him.

SA this summer will make or break Coles chances.

Cole and Jones

This is very interesting.
The 2 shoe in's are the Welsh boy Props (Jones and Jenkins).
If they go on tour they have nothing to prove against Oz.
The upcoming tours will go a long way to determining the backup props.

English pair will scrum down against arguably the best scrummaging Southern Hem team.
Cian Healy and Mike Ross will be tested against the Kiwi pack (no easy task with Franks in good form).

Good or bad performances against these oponents will be the deciding factor, and then if they can back it up in the November tests.

Is, Scotland touring? If so where. I would like to see Ford and Murray et. al against the southern teams.

Not sure whether anyone bar diehard, unobjective England/Tigers fans would seriouly consider Dan Cole Worldclass...? That is a pretty big exageration.

If you view world class as the Premiership than Dan Cole is top of the Championship and pushing on. For a 24 year old he is an exceptionally gifted tighthead that is developing very nicely. He has good mentors in Castro (argueably the best TH in the world) and Julian White (one of the meanest scrummagers going) as well as having to do live scrum training against Mulipola (20 stone of Samoan muscle) and Ayerza (technically gifted Argentinian) should mean he has all the bases covered.

For those who say he's lightweight he is about 18 and a half stone so not the biggest going but hardly small.

Adam Jones will be the first choice for the Lions as he is 31 and in his prime. Be good for Jones to know he can give everything for 50 minutes and know there's a very good sub waiting to replace him when he tires.

Sam

Not sure if that was intended as a dig, but if so....................

Jones and Cole give the Lions a formidable option on the tight head.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Not sure whether anyone bar diehard, unobjective England/Tigers fans would seriouly consider Dan Cole Worldclass...? That is a pretty big exageration.

If you view world class as the Premiership than Dan Cole is top of the Championship and pushing on. For a 24 year old he is an exceptionally gifted tighthead that is developing very nicely. He has good mentors in Castro (argueably the best TH in the world) and Julian White (one of the meanest scrummagers going) as well as having to do live scrum training against Mulipola (20 stone of Samoan muscle) and Ayerza (technically gifted Argentinian) should mean he has all the bases covered.

For those who say he's lightweight he is about 18 and a half stone so not the biggest going but hardly small.

Adam Jones will be the first choice for the Lions as he is 31 and in his prime. Be good for Jones to know he can give everything for 50 minutes and know there's a very good sub waiting to replace him when he tires.

Hi Sam

Good post and I think you cover our thoughts across the board. Dan Cole is very impressive. As I was stating somewhere else there is a certain line of thought against Adam Jones and pro Cole if we want a mobile pack. Do we need a massive scrummager like jones when a ball winner who is technically very good in the scrum would offer more?

Depends on whether we are going to try and smash the Ozzie scrum...?

Will find out the best tactic in the summer. Adam Jones might not be the best weapon for Wales in Oz. maybe one of the more athletic youngsters may prove a better asset.

Against Australia too - both Jones and Cole would do very well.

If the Lions are going to win the tour they have to use any and all weapons in their arsenal. One area where we definately know we are better is in the scrum, so we must really turn the screw there.

It was worth 2 penalty trys the last time England toured there. Lions and Wales should be aiming to do better when they tour.

But, the thing about the Wallabies is that they tend to know how to play behind a struggling pack - so, the lions must smash them in the breakdown too. (Just like Samoa did in their pre WC friendly).

maestegmafia wrote:

wickedwasp wrote:Maest

too early to start throwing around world class, I agree.

But, he does have the potential to be, I think

great technique good around the field just a bit lightweight. Short is fine for a prop but light weight is not good when you face a big bulky Loosehead, with a monster pack behind him.

SA this summer will make or break Coles chances.

I think he can get away with being slightly 'lightweight' in the scrum due to his excellent technique. He has struggled in games before, but what young international tighthead wouldn't. The only person I have seen give him a real, genuine beasting was Thomas Domingo and he is far from a big bulky loosehead, more a short stocky guy with treetrunk legs and great technique of his own.

I don't see that many destructive international looseheads out there at the moment, and I think Cole is at the point where he can and should be dominating the vast majority of them.

I agree that South Africa could make or break him, just not at scrumtime. I don't think the South African scrum is that fearsome at the moment, and him and Corbisiero should be able to at least have front row parity, providing the rest of the forward do the business in the set piece. Whether Cole can stand up to the physicality of the Bok forwards away from the scrum is the more interesting area, for me.

As I was stating somewhere else there is a certain line of thought against Adam Jones and pro Cole if we want a mobile pack. Do we need a massive scrummager like jones when a ball winner who is technically very good in the scrum would offer more?

I'd start with Jones and use Cole's new found mobility (he wasn't showing that last year, I think he's slimmed down a tad) later on in the games. Aus are very good at wearing teams down and then getting a glut of points late on against tired legs. The ability to bring on Cole who will still give their scrum a going over but also get round the park should help negate that free flowing rugby effect.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

As I was stating somewhere else there is a certain line of thought against Adam Jones and pro Cole if we want a mobile pack. Do we need a massive scrummager like jones when a ball winner who is technically very good in the scrum would offer more?

I'd start with Jones and use Cole's new found mobility (he wasn't showing that last year, I think he's slimmed down a tad) later on in the games. Aus are very good at wearing teams down and then getting a glut of points late on against tired legs. The ability to bring on Cole who will still give their scrum a going over but also get round the park should help negate that free flowing rugby effect.

Luckily we have this summers welsh tour to work out the best tactics. It might be that we need two scrummagers to pulverise the ozzies, may need two athletes or may need a mix of the two as you say.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

As I was stating somewhere else there is a certain line of thought against Adam Jones and pro Cole if we want a mobile pack. Do we need a massive scrummager like jones when a ball winner who is technically very good in the scrum would offer more?

I'd start with Jones and use Cole's new found mobility (he wasn't showing that last year, I think he's slimmed down a tad) later on in the games. Aus are very good at wearing teams down and then getting a glut of points late on against tired legs. The ability to bring on Cole who will still give their scrum a going over but also get round the park should help negate that free flowing rugby effect.

I think this is a good idea, but there is always the chance they will go for another loosehead on the bench and rely on Jenkins to cover the number 3 shirt, something he has already done at international level.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

As I was stating somewhere else there is a certain line of thought against Adam Jones and pro Cole if we want a mobile pack. Do we need a massive scrummager like jones when a ball winner who is technically very good in the scrum would offer more?

I'd start with Jones and use Cole's new found mobility (he wasn't showing that last year, I think he's slimmed down a tad) later on in the games. Aus are very good at wearing teams down and then getting a glut of points late on against tired legs. The ability to bring on Cole who will still give their scrum a going over but also get round the park should help negate that free flowing rugby effect.

I think this is a good idea, but there is always the chance they will go for another loosehead on the bench and rely on Jenkins to cover the number 3 shirt, something he has already done at international level.

More likely Paul james on the bench I reckon. Gethin hasn't played Tighthead for over four years.

More likely Paul james on the bench I reckon. Gethin hasn't played Tighthead for over four years.

I'm sure Cole or Jones can cover loosehead in an emergency as they are only up against Australia. Lessening the ability on the bench by including Paul James doesn't seem a good idea to me.

formerly known as Sam wrote: Lessening the ability on the bench by including Paul James doesn't seem a good idea to me.

Hardly.James might be a bench player for Wales but Wales have two world class first choice props.

maestegmafia wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote: Lessening the ability on the bench by including Paul James doesn't seem a good idea to me.

Hardly.James might be a bench player for Wales but Wales have two world class first choice props.

Unfortunately James is not in that category. 1% voted for him in your pole.

Corbs would be the sensible choice and by logic the poles choice as he covers TH aswell.

I think it very unlikely looking at the prop situation at the moment that James will tour. If the Lions tour were tomorrow and the Lions took five props I'm about 95% sure those would be Jenkins, Healy, Corbisiero, Jones and Cole. Jenkins and Corbs both cover TH to an extent (probably better than Stevens cover LH ) so that's not a problem.

I beg to differ with the selection of Cole. I think he lives off a reputation that the press gave him despite the fact he has had little impact on the world stage. He is overated and should not tour with the Lions.
Adam Jones is a gem and should obviously start with the only plausable replacement being Mike Ross. Okay he dosent contribute alot around the pitch but he'll punish Kepu or Robinson in the scrum.