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Openside Choices of the Home Nations?

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Openside

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Post by maestegmafia Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:01 pm

Lets look at who the board rate as the best Opensides possible suggestions for the Lions next year.

Pick TWO Opensides from the Poll below.

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Post by drsambo1928 Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:05 pm

Here we go. The biggest decision. Obviously Warburton is a definite starter but who to bring on the bench is the question. I voted for Warbs and SOB. Although not a vintage year for SOB, he can still come back to his bullocking best. At least I hope he will.

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Post by Taffineastbourne Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:37 pm

Went for Sam and Wood.Toyed with picking Rennie but his butchering of good moves went against him.Rate SOB but he is not an openside.This is the problem with the Irish backrow,they are 8's or 6's.

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Post by maestegmafia Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:07 pm

Havent seen much of Wood this year, injuries and all. Played well last year.

Warburton and Tuperic for me, SOB or Wood as an extra backrower maybe.

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Post by wales606 Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:47 pm

Keep forgetting to select 2

So, Warbs and probably SOB as he can also cover 6&8

Actually, probably better to take a specialist 7...Rennie or Tipuric then
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Post by maestegmafia Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:22 am

I think a specialist seven is what we want in oz.

I will do a utility forward poll I guess to cover multi positional anomalies...!

I think Tuperic is already showing he can be Blwdi useful. The scots are great lads too. Both cracking players despite their performances in attack where they dropped passes, gave the ball away, couldnt catch etc, they don't play like that for their clubs.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:35 am

Most consistent players at the moment are Armitage & Robshawe.

All the others are either inconsistent, injury prone or show potential.

That doesn't mean to say they are the best but that's the problem with having a poll now. It will all change in 6 months.

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Post by George Carlin Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:41 am

Not taking two specialist 7s is ludicrous, as is suggesting that SOB could compete with Pocock as a fetcher. It has to be Rennie and Warbuton on current form.
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Post by rodders Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:28 am

Warburton and O'Brien. Two of the best players in the NH with Stephen Ferris. These 3 will be the first names down for the tour.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:08 am

hmm even as an England fan I sense the anti-Welsh feeling has gotten strong on this board Very Happy

Warburton and Rennie for me. Tuperic not far away, but I fear he won't get enough chances in the Welsh jersey to further his cause.

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Post by dummy_half Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:39 am

I think the Lions will take 2 proper 7s, which would mean Warburton and Rennie.

The squad will probably end up with 7 back-rowers with the 7th player being versatile cover, so between Robshaw, Wood and SOB - of those three, I'd say O'Brien is the most talented, but he didn't have a great 6Ns.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:41 am

I went for Rennie and SOB - main reason I didn't go for Warburton, is his injury record. I would have selected him over the other 2 otherwise, but he really needs to get sorted out next season if he wants to captain the Lions. Very injury prone right now.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:44 am

Also, there was a good point made about this "natural" 7s thing the other day. There are different types of players in every position, like at 12 you have the likes of Nonu, Roberts, Barnes etc. All different players, play a different sort of game, but they are still 12s. Why does a 7 have to be a certain type of player then? Warburton was described as a 6.5 when he started for Wales I remember..

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Post by bluestonevedder Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:50 am

I'd go Warbs and Rennie simply because they'd be competing with Pocock- who I think is the best 7 in the world. A 6 or a 6.5 masquerading at 7 would get blown away. Got to fight fire with fire.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:52 am

If you wear 7, you are playing 7. Not 6.5, there is no 6.5 shirt.

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Post by bluestonevedder Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:56 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:If you wear 7, you are playing 7. Not 6.5, there is no 6.5 shirt.

Headscratch

The point is more that a player who isn't a true out and out 7 playing there against Pocock wouldn't fair well. I.e O'Brien would in my opinion, be much better used as a 6 or an 8, not being forced into the 7 jersey.

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Post by rodders Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:59 am

O'Brien has outplayed Warburton twice this season. Played him off the park in Leinster v Blues (was motm) and outplayed him on the deck in the 6N.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:00 pm

He isn't forced into the 7 jersey, because his favourite position is either 6 or 7. He would rather not play 8. A "true" out and out 7, what even is that? Someone who competes at the breakdown? Watch SOB play and you will see him do exactly that. Plus Dusuatoir bossed the NZ back row again in a world cup despite not being a "true" 7..

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:01 pm

Plus, Pocock is one man, the Lions is a team of 15 players. Why would our 7 be the only man able to combat him? Knock him off his feet, no matter who you are. We don't need a 7 to target Pocock the entire game. That would be a waste of a player.

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Post by mystiroakey Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:05 pm

Lol the only poster to pick croft. He is thr future mark my words

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Post by bluestonevedder Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:07 pm

Look, i'm not bashing O'Brien at all, he is a fantastic player and I think he could be pushing for the starting 6 jersey. Yes, O'Brien does compete at the breakdown, not once have I said that he doesn't. He did a good job at 7 during the 6N, but I don't think his future's there. Pocock's ability to get to the ball first and turn it over is what makes him great, and as a trump to that, I think the Lions will need someone who is equally as effective- getting to the ball first, staying and their feet and turning it over. All attributes that each player in a team is taught, but a 7 typically does the best and spends their career harnessing. That's all. I'm just saying that an out and out 7 (sorry Rory) would be best suited to beat Pocock to the ball and secure it.

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Post by rodders Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:13 pm

I agree and I'd start Warbuton at 7 but I am 100% O'brien will tour and feature in the tests, perhaps from the bench or maybe even at 8.

He's just too good to leave out.
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Post by bluestonevedder Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:15 pm

Absolutely roddersm. He has to tour, because I think his physicality will cause real problems. Him or Ferris as an impact sub would be so destructive.

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Post by rodders Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:27 pm

Well I'd have him behind Ferris and Lydiate for the 6 jersey and Warburton for the 7 but I'd find a place for him somewhere. He offers too much not to feature.

Like Croft he has that x factor in attack but he also has a phenomenal all round game and workrate.

Theres so many good back rowers it will come down to balance and the best combinations rather than individuals.
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Post by wales606 Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:06 pm

roddersm wrote:O'Brien has outplayed Warburton twice this season. Played him off the park in Leinster v Blues (was motm) and outplayed him on the deck in the 6N.


In Leinster vs Blues,

O'Brein playing 8, didn't outplay Navidi playing 7 (who was the only Blues player to perform from what I remember)


As for SOB outplaying Warbs on the floor in Ireland - I don't think so, in anycase, Tipuric outshone SOB in the second half.
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Post by rodders Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:17 pm

Blues v Leinster O'Brien and Warbs were both playing 7 and O'brien was MOTM.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:25 pm

Were I picking a Lions squad now I'd go with Warburton as first choice and Ross Rennie as back-up.

I think SOB could tour as well, as general back row cover (as he can play across the back row). Judged as a pure openside, I think he's behind Warburton and Rennie.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:50 pm

Warbs & Rennie by a distance

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Post by dragonbreath Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:19 pm

roddersm wrote:O'Brien has outplayed Warburton twice this season. Played him off the park in Leinster v Blues (was motm) and outplayed him on the deck in the 6N.


Thanks for that. The rest of the Rugby world is clearly wrong and SOB is the top 7 and the balance of the Irish back row is just perfect as it is.

Thankfully for the rest of us Kidney seems to agree with you

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Post by rodders Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:41 pm

Me and Deccie are two peas in a pod Hug

Obviously the panels which awarded SOB motm against the Blues and the HEC player of the year award last year don't count as the rest of the rugby world then Dragon old bean?
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Post by drsambo1928 Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:28 pm

The problem with Rennie is I feel he could fall off next year with second season syndrome hitting him. SOB is the only choice as the other specialists are not experienced to deal with Pocock. Although SOB hasn't really been up against Pocock in an important match, I still for some reason have more faith in him to deal with him. Besides, dealing with Pocock has a 1 in 10 success chance, at times he's just unstoppable.

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Post by IanBru Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:56 am

Seriously, since when was this season Rennie's first?

He has played for Scotland since 2008...
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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:07 am

Yeah Rennie has been playing since 2008, he was injured for the bulk of 2010 and had it not been for that Probably would have been playing instead of Barclay for Scotland.

All trhough the age groups Rennie was always considered superiour to Barclay.
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Post by bluestonevedder Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:53 am

drsambo1928 wrote:The problem with Rennie is I feel he could fall off next year with second season syndrome hitting him. SOB is the only choice as the other specialists are not experienced to deal with Pocock. Although SOB hasn't really been up against Pocock in an important match, I still for some reason have more faith in him to deal with him. Besides, dealing with Pocock has a 1 in 10 success chance, at times he's just unstoppable.

I don't think SOB will handle Pocock better than say Warbs or Rennie. Sure, he might stand a chance using sheer physicality, but a prototypical 7 will be best at nullifying Pocock's threat.

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Post by Comfort Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:16 am

Rodders, Im sorry, but SOB hasnt outplayed Warburton this season, the leinster backrow outplayed the blues backrow and the 6nations game couldnt have been any closer in any aspect all over the park.

I voted for Warbs/Rennie. I think SOB will go as backrow cover though as he is an excellant player and can cover all of the backrow. No-one in the NH matches Warbs at 7 when hes fully fit for me.

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Post by bluestonevedder Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:18 am

Comfort wrote: No-one in the NH matches Warbs at 7 when hes fully fit for me.

I agree, which is why he has to be the man to nullify Pocock. It's a mouth-watering prospect

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Post by rodders Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:05 pm

Comfort wrote:Rodders, Im sorry, but SOB hasnt outplayed Warburton this season, the leinster backrow outplayed the blues backrow and the 6nations game couldnt have been any closer in any aspect all over the park.

I voted for Warbs/Rennie. I think SOB will go as backrow cover though as he is an excellant player and can cover all of the backrow. No-one in the NH matches Warbs at 7 when hes fully fit for me.

SOB was motm so therefore had the better game. How come if Wales beat Ireland Warbs has outplayed SOB but if Leinster beat the blues its the Leinster backrow who've out played Blues backrow?

Is it so hard to give credit were its due and admit SOB had a better game when they were head to head?

Agree Warbs is the best 7 around but SOB's shortcomings at 7 are much exaggerated.
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Post by bluestonevedder Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:10 pm

roddersm wrote:

Agree Warbs is the best 7 around but SOB's shortcomings at 7 are much exaggerated.

They are, and I think he's deputised very very well at 7, but it's just becoming apparent that it's not his natural position.

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Post by Comfort Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:30 pm

no rodders i agree, and the use of double standards does no-one on here any good!

They're very different types of players, and I think they'd make an excellant pairing on the flanks with someone like Faletau/Heaslip at 8 with a good all round game.

I agree with what you're saying, but i think its hard to describe someone as outplaying another player if they dont play the exact same type of game. The leinster unit certainly outplayed the blues unit but thats involving another 2 players on each side.

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Post by Biltong Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:43 pm

sorry didn't read the instructions went for Rennie.
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Post by glamorganalun Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:36 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:hmm even as an England fan I sense the anti-Welsh feeling has gotten strong on this board Very Happy

Warburton and Rennie for me. Tuperic not far away, but I fear he won't get enough chances in the Welsh jersey to further his cause.

Agree with your comments, the problem with Warbs he is always injured so Tuperic will get plenty of chances.

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Post by flyhalffactory Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:52 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:
Comfort wrote: No-one in the NH matches Warbs at 7 when hes fully fit for me.

I agree, which is why he has to be the man to nullify Pocock. It's a mouth-watering prospect

At 25 he is a year or two older than Warbs but Rennie was a nominee for the Six Nations player of the championship, he outperformed Warbs and SOB at the openside channel....... IMHO during the 6Ns matches. So based on "current form" he is the man in the Lions 7 jersey most certainly

Considering the Lions is a good while off I would consider Ross over and above the others on performance over the last 3-4 months
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Post by maestegmafia Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:03 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:
Comfort wrote: No-one in the NH matches Warbs at 7 when hes fully fit for me.

I agree, which is why he has to be the man to nullify Pocock. It's a mouth-watering prospect

At 25 he is a year or two older than Warbs but Rennie was a nominee for the Six Nations player of the championship, he outperformed Warbs and SOB at the openside channel.......

Shingler played openside against Scotland not Warburton.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:15 pm

Nor did he play against SOB in the Ireland match, he was up against O'Mahony..

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Post by maestegmafia Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:18 pm

O'Mahony is a good lad, i like him, very honest player. Good prospect.

Could well see SOB move to 8 with Ruddock and O'Mahony on the flanks for Ireland in the future.

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Post by Gibson Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:21 pm

Shane Jennings. Best 7 in the NH.
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Post by Rory_Gallagher Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:21 pm

I can't see Ruddock ever making it to be honest. Plus SOB is not an 8, and POM is not a 7. IMO at least.

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Post by slartibartfast Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:21 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:
Comfort wrote: No-one in the NH matches Warbs at 7 when hes fully fit for me.

I agree, which is why he has to be the man to nullify Pocock. It's a mouth-watering prospect

At 25 he is a year or two older than Warbs but Rennie was a nominee for the Six Nations player of the championship, he outperformed Warbs and SOB at the openside channel.......

Shingler played openside against Scotland not Warburton.

And gethin Jenkins was the best "jackler" on the day!!!
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Post by Geordie Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:24 pm

On tonights performance...dont bet against Steffon Armitage being on that plane....for a guy who looks so unfit...he's was seriously impressive tonight...and has been all season for Toulon...

Geordie

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Post by drsambo1928 Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:36 pm

Warbs and SOB, someone will challenge SOB though, number of people could do it.

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