Why doesn't David Haye launch a comeback?

by Ronikara Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:01 pm

Ok so we all agree Haye underperformed against Wlad last summer and noone wants to go out on a defeat like that. But a number of experts believe he would have a better chance against the slower and more robotic Vitali. Even Haye has suggested this.

What I don't understand is why Haye doesn't want to launch a proper comeback. Instead of talking himself into a fight with Vitali, as he attempted and failed to do at the Chiosra press conference, why not do what Richard Schaffer suggested he should do immediately after the Wlad fight and take on a couple of fighters such as Chris Arreola/Dereck Chisora/Potvetkin build some momentum and some bargaining power with the Klitschko's before trying again. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that at the very least Haye is the best of the rest in the heavyweight division and would be able to dispatch the other contenders in explosive fashion. I also think he would stand a much better chance against Vitali than Wlad, and even in a rematch with Wlad would be able to give a much better account of himself. If after a couple of fights Haye and the K brothers can't agree terms, at least Haye will have gone out on a high and hopefully repaired some of the damage to his reputation with the fans who could watch Haye in fights where he isn't having to overcome 4-5 inches in height and 2 stone in weight, and can afford to take more chances.

What has he got to lose? If he hadn't "retired" last year, he could already have had those couple of fights by now and be much closer to a fight with Vitali than he is anyway. I for one hope we haven't seen the last of him in a boxing ring.

by manos de piedra Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:04 pm

Easier just to keep talking. Especially in todays heavyweight climate where options are not plentiful for the two brothers.

Would agree with your suggestion that its much the more reasonable options but simply put I dont think Haye could be bothered.

by Rowley Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:09 pm

Why work for something that will probably drop in your lap if you shout your mouth off loudly enough. I personally am glad to see the back of the loud mouth charlatan but suspect most of you knew that already

by Rowley Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:11 pm

There is also the question of whether his toe can cope with a too hectic schedule of fights, things are rarely as straight forward as they seem.

by **88Chris05** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:14 pm

Because Haye is an egotistical prat who is deluded enough to think that the whole Heavyweight division revolves around him. He badly overestimates just how highly rated he is amongst boxing fans and how much of a 'star' he is.

After the meek performance he put up against Wladimir, you'd think he'd do well to keep his distasteful rants to himself. But no. He wants another shot at one of the brothers, but not by earning one, no no. He's far above that, you see. Much easier to mouth off and spew out the old "the Klitschkos are ruining boxing, they fight bums, they're killing the sport with how they treat fellow professionals" bile, to gatecrash press conferences, to deride Vitali for having the sheer temerity to fight Adamek, a man with just as much a claim to fight either Klitschko, but who Haye, in his usual dismissive manner, dubbed a 'Polish plum' rather than himself, the high and mighty David Haye.

He simply can't be bothered to actually prove he's got what it takes to give the Klitschkos a decent argument - he just wants to scream it from the rooftops as much as he can, and then expect people to believe it. And for some truly bizarre reason, some still do.

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:20 pm

I honestly believe Haye does not trust his chin enough at HW to risk a warm up fight so he shouts from the rooftop to secure a fight with Vitali.

by Valero's Conscience Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:22 pm

88Chris05 wrote:Because Haye is an egotistical prat who is deluded enough to think that the whole Heavyweight division revolves around him. He badly overestimates just how highly rated he is amongst boxing fans and how much of a 'star' he is.

Totally agree. I actually like him a lot more than most on here seem to but his head is thoroughly up his own asshoolio.

I also think he's made a seriously large amount of money in his last few fights and happy to sit back and enjoy life.

Shame as he would be popular in the US and add a lot of excitement especially as he should beat all the guys over there and make some easy cash!

by Mind the windows Tino. Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:29 pm

I am with Chris and Jeff. I can't really decide if I like Haye, or not.

by eddyfightfan Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:49 pm

i was a huge haye fan, but feel let down, not by the performance, everybody has a off night, but by his attitute towards earning fights, after the 2 year ordeal of getting a klitchsko fight signed seal and delivered without really earning it (harrison?), i think he should be willing to fight 2 or 3 contenders (solis, povetkin, helenius, arreroa price/fury/chisora all worthy) or walk away. he hasnt fought for ages, other than a bad loss to his brother, so there is nothing at the moment to show haye has what it takes to beat vitali. the sad thing is i think if he'd had fought often enough since turning heavyweight and took out all the contenders he would have been better equipped to to challenge for the titles.

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:50 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:I am with Chris and Jeff. I can't really decide if I like Haye, or not.

by eddyfightfan Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:52 pm

also he doesnt have frank warren to talk to the board for him should he want a liesnce back, and i also doubt if he'd be allowed to box in germany again.

by Steffan Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:56 pm

After the horrific injury to his toe which Haye bravely fought through in the Wlad fight would the boxing board allow him to come back knowing that he could do further damage to it? He showed what a warrior he was against Wlad and was very humble in defeat (how many times did Haye say 'I lost to the better man'? I counted at least 20) but given how bad the injury was to his toe I think he should stay retired as a true legend of the sport and the man who saved heavyweight boxing (as he said he would)

by **88Chris05** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:15 pm

The odd thing is, I was actually a Haye fan, once upon a time. You couldn't really ask for too much more from his pre-Heavyweight career, and I admired the fact that he (used to) come across as an intelligent, down to earth and articulate bloke. Good for the sport, I thought.

However, the step up to Heavyweight just seemed to flick a switch in his head. Rather than prove himself the best Heavyweight in the sport, he seemed more intent on being known as the biggest (and most classless) idiot in it. The comments about the Klitschkos, the late cancellation against Wladimir in 2009, the bizarre pre-fight comments with regards to Audley (and we'll get to that absolute shambles in a moment), the brawl with Chisora, the performance - or lack of - and excuses when he and Wladimir finally did square off; Haye's Heavyweight career, at times, has seemed nothing more than a string of bad news and embarrassments.

And then of course, the clanger to end all clangers; the 'fight' with Audley. That the fight happened was already disappointing enough. That it was so clearly maneuvered and planned for no other reason than to line some hardly rewarding pockets, the ridiculous acting from both parties beforehand and, of course, the blatantly prearranged (for all intents and purposes) outcome brought it easily in to 'joke' territory.

This was the man who had been sent from back in time by the likes of Frazier, Dempsey, Marciano etc to revolutionise the Heavyweight game. This was the man who told us all there'd be a new dawn once his reign began.

Instead, we got that.

Sorry to rant, but I just can't forgive him. Nor can I support his absolutely pathetic behaviour and talking since.

by bhb001 Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:15 pm

Steffan wrote:After the horrific injury to his toe which Haye bravely fought through in the Wlad fight would the boxing board allow him to come back knowing that he could do further damage to it? He showed what a warrior he was against Wlad and was very humble in defeat (how many times did Haye say 'I lost to the better man'? I counted at least 20) but given how bad the injury was to his toe I think he should stay retired as a true legend of the sport and the man who saved heavyweight boxing (as he said he would)

Between him and that other giant in the Heavyweights, Mr A-Force Harrison, we are surely fortunate to have lived through such a prolific period of high profile, high quality demonstrations of the pugilistic arts in the most prestigious of divisons. Tumbleweed

I'll get my coat ...

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:20 pm

Bit unkind to Haye re fixing fights. Is there proof of this (I genuinely dont know). His HW resume is no worse than K2....such is the HW scene now.

by bhb001 Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:23 pm

azania wrote:Bit unkind to Haye re fixing fights. Is there proof of this (I genuinely dont know). His HW resume is no worse than K2....such is the HW scene now.

K2 have fought mandatories as well as cruiser weights and tin cans. Their resume in the heavyweght division is far superior to Haye's, let down by the quality of the divison as it currently is

by **88Chris05** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:27 pm

I did say for all intents and purposes, Azania. I don't think Haye and Audley said to each other beforehand a time a round when Audley, inevitably, saw his 'dream' go up in smoke, if that's what you mean. However, it's very much my contention that the two of them got together and decided to put on a very phoney 'rivalry' with the intention of fooling the public in to shelling out money to watch a total non-event. More to the point, it's also my opinion that Harrison never had any intention of trying to win, or even trying to fight. He was there to pick up his money and wait until Haye decided to knock him out.

Mind you, that whole business of Haye nodding, saying "now" and then, lo and behold, teeing off on an immobile Harrison to force the stoppage suggests that things may have been even more amiss than even I suspected.

Either way, Haye-Harrison will, quite rightly, be forever known as one of the darkest moments in the history of post-War British boxing.

by **oxring** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:29 pm

azania wrote:Bit unkind to Haye re fixing fights. Is there proof of this (I genuinely dont know). His HW resume is no worse than K2....such is the HW scene now.

Wladimir: Byrd (2), Mercer, Peter(2), Ibragimov, Rahman, Thompson, Chagaev, Chambers
Vitali: Donald, Sanders, Gomez, Arreola, Johnson, Sosnowski, Briggs, Solis, Adamek, Peter

Haye: Bonin, Barrett, Valuev, Ruiz, Harrison

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:29 pm

bhb001 wrote:
azania wrote:Bit unkind to Haye re fixing fights. Is there proof of this (I genuinely dont know). His HW resume is no worse than K2....such is the HW scene now.

K2 have fought mandatories as well as cruiser weights and tin cans. Their resume in the heavyweght division is far superior to Haye's, let down by the quality of the divison as it currently is

Valuev, Ruiz are on par with all K2 have fought. The HW scene is that bad. And good old Audley is certainly better than Mormeck. He was as active also.

by Rowley Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:30 pm

Don't bite Oxy, you're better than that.

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:33 pm

88Chris05 wrote:I did say for all intents and purposes, Azania. I don't think Haye and Audley said to each other beforehand a time a round when Audley, inevitably, saw his 'dream' go up in smoke, if that's what you mean. However, it's very much my contention that the two of them got together and decided to put on a very phoney 'rivalry' with the intention of fooling the public in to shelling out money to watch a total non-event. More to the point, it's also my opinion that Harrison never had any intention of trying to win, or even trying to fight. He was there to pick up his money and wait until Haye decided to knock him out.

Mind you, that whole business of Haye nodding, saying "now" and then, lo and behold, teeing off on an immobile Harrison to force the stoppage suggests that things may have been even more amiss than even I suspected.

Either way, Haye-Harrison will, quite rightly, be forever known as one of the darkest moments in the history of post-War British boxing.

Fooling the public into buying tickets? Like Bellew and Cliv? False rivalries and hype are all part and parcel of boxing. Also the hype was entertaining and very funny (not as funny as the fight but the joke was on us).

I dont think they colluded to 'fix' a fight. I think Audley just froze on the night. Too much pressure on himself and too scared to throw a punch so as not to get countered. But as he said, he had Haye where he wanted him and was just getting into his gameplan before Haye knocked the snot out of him.

by **88Chris05** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:33 pm

You're setting a new standard (or would sinking to a new low be more apt?) of daft wummery with that statement regarding Haye and the Klitschko's respective legacies by the way, Az.

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:34 pm

Gibe it a rest rowley. I have my opinions and have justified my comment. Quit the wind up please. Its a little naughty of you.

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:36 pm

Point missed by all again. My point is more a criticism of the HW scene than bigigng up Haye or criticisng k2. Dont jump to comclusions. Read what is written as opposed to coming to conclusions on what you think is written.

by **oxring** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:39 pm

rowley wrote:Don't bite Oxy, you're better than that.

Sorry, and thank you Jeff. Am dutifully retiring from the debate, having merely listed the respective ranked opponents.

by Super D Boon Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:41 pm

azania wrote:Bit unkind to Haye re fixing fights. Is there proof of this (I genuinely dont know). His HW resume is no worse than K2....such is the HW scene now.

And now!!...........live from sanitorium in One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest itttttssssssssssssss.........Azania!!!

laughing

by Ronikara Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:45 pm

I agree with Azania. Fraudley froze on the night, pure and simple and as a lot of people predicted he would. Haye could only beat what was in front of him. If you were going to fix a fight WWE style, surlely you would act out a bit of a contest before the inevitable outcome

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:48 pm

oxring wrote:
azania wrote:Bit unkind to Haye re fixing fights. Is there proof of this (I genuinely dont know). His HW resume is no worse than K2....such is the HW scene now.

Wladimir: Byrd (2), Mercer, Peter(2), Ibragimov, Rahman, Thompson, Chagaev, Chambers
Vitali: Donald, Sanders, Gomez, Arreola, Johnson, Sosnowski, Briggs, Solis, Adamek, Peter

Haye: Bonin, Barrett, Valuev, Ruiz, Harrison

I'd pick Valuev and Ruiz to beat 90% of the K2 victims. Barret would be 50/50 and Haye would beat a few of K2 victims. The only stand out there was Donald and I dont know how ambitious he was as many tend to lose ambition the moment they step into the ring with Wlad.

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:49 pm

Super D Boon wrote:
azania wrote:Bit unkind to Haye re fixing fights. Is there proof of this (I genuinely dont know). His HW resume is no worse than K2....such is the HW scene now.

And now!!...........live from sanitorium in One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest itttttssssssssssssss.........Azania!!!

Boon, I could ask you why you wrote that and explain your reasoning, but you simply wont and cant. Get an idea

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:50 pm

Ronikara wrote:I agree with Azania. Fraudley froze on the night, pure and simple and as a lot of people predicted he would. Haye could only beat what was in front of him. If you were going to fix a fight WWE style, surlely you would act out a bit of a contest before the inevitable outcome

Exactly.

by trottb Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:56 pm

azania wrote:Read what is written as opposed to coming to conclusions on what you think is written.

A bit rich...

by manos de piedra Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:58 pm

azania wrote:
oxring wrote:
azania wrote:Bit unkind to Haye re fixing fights. Is there proof of this (I genuinely dont know). His HW resume is no worse than K2....such is the HW scene now.

Wladimir: Byrd (2), Mercer, Peter(2), Ibragimov, Rahman, Thompson, Chagaev, Chambers
Vitali: Donald, Sanders, Gomez, Arreola, Johnson, Sosnowski, Briggs, Solis, Adamek, Peter

Haye: Bonin, Barrett, Valuev, Ruiz, Harrison

I'd pick Valuev and Ruiz to beat 90% of the K2 victims. Barret would be 50/50 and Haye would beat a few of K2 victims. The only stand out there was Donald and I dont know how ambitious he was as many tend to lose ambition the moment they step into the ring with Wlad.

Not a chance. The washed up Ruiz and Barrett that Haye faced would be cannon fodder. Valuev would have more success but he lost to Haye and Chagaev who were Klitschko victims and wouldnt be much better than 50/50 even against guys like Ibragimov, Solis and Byrd.

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:00 pm

trottb wrote:
azania wrote:Read what is written as opposed to coming to conclusions on what you think is written.

A bit rich...

That may be the case but what is interesting that the poster who wrote the OP is not a prolific poster here and so has not formed any prejudices on other posters. Ironically he agrees with some of what I have written. Others simply see the poster's name and jump to pre concieved prejudices based on nothing that is written.

by Ronikara Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:00 pm

azania wrote:I honestly believe Haye does not trust his chin enough at HW to risk a warm up fight so he shouts from the rooftop to secure a fight with Vitali.

Not sure I agree with you here Az, Haye took some of Wlad's best shots and wasn't wobbled. I don't think Haye would be troubled by the punch power of a Povetkin or Chisora

by **88Chris05** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:00 pm

azania wrote:Gibe it a rest rowley. I have my opinions and have justified my comment. Quit the wind up please. Its a little naughty of you.

Maybe if it were actually an opinion, you'd have a fighting chance. But rather, it's simply a load of cobblers which you're only spouting due to it conflicting with the opinions of ninety-nine percent of other members, which in turn satisfies your little "Oh, everyone's saying this, so I'm going to argue the other side no matter how insane it is, because it gets me a lot of attention" needs and tendancies.

Yes, of course, Haye-Harrison wasn't an embarrassing affair at all. In fact, it was a glorious event which gave British boxing a much-needed shot in the arm. Yes, of course, Haye has a Heavyweight resumé to match both Wladimir and Vitali. To deny this is simply to let an irrational dislike of you cloud one's judgement.

"Debate what's written, not the poster" is what you always tell us, Az. Well that's exactly what we're doing - but it just so happens that you are, I'm afraid to say, writing rubbish.

I think I'll write an article on how elephants are bigger than koala bears so you can inform us all that this, in fact, isn't the case at all and that koala bears are much bigger, and that we're only saying otherwise because we're stubborn and the like.

by Guest Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:02 pm

Maybe he bottled it. Whistle

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:03 pm

I'd certainly pick Barret to beat at most 50% of K2 victims. I'll stick with 90% for Valuev and similar or perhaps slightly lower with Ruiz. The division is that bad. Solis was unfortunately injured and I believe he will turn out to be the best of the lot when he fully recovers and gets another shot.

by Super D Boon Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:06 pm

azania wrote:I'd certainly pick Barret to beat at most 50% of K2 victims. I'll stick with 90% for Valuev and similar or perhaps slightly lower with Ruiz. The division is that bad. Solis was unfortunately injured and I believe he will turn out to be the best of the lot when he fully recovers and gets another shot.

Why doesn't David Haye launch a comeback? 4278589029

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:09 pm

88Chris05 wrote:
azania wrote:Gibe it a rest rowley. I have my opinions and have justified my comment. Quit the wind up please. Its a little naughty of you.

Maybe if it were actually an opinion, you'd have a fighting chance. But rather, it's simply a load of cobblers which you're only spouting due to it conflicting with the opinions of ninety-nine percent of other members, which in turn satisfies your little "Oh, everyone's saying this, so I'm going to argue the other side no matter how insane it is, because it gets me a lot of attention" needs and tendancies.

Yes, of course, Haye-Harrison wasn't an embarrassing affair at all. In fact, it was a glorious event which gave British boxing a much-needed shot in the arm. Yes, of course, Haye has a Heavyweight resumé to match both Wladimir and Vitali. To deny this is simply to let an irrational dislike of you cloud one's judgement.

"Debate what's written, not the poster" is what you always tell us, Az. Well that's exactly what we're doing - but it just so happens that you are, I'm afraid to say, writing rubbish.

I think I'll write an article on how elephants are bigger than koala bears so you can inform us all that this, in fact, isn't the case at all and that koala bears are much bigger, and that we're only saying otherwise because we're stubborn and the like.

Rubbish and your comments, although humurous and not backed up by whet I wrote.

I wrote: Also the hype was entertaining and very funny (not as funny as the fight but the joke was on us). And then you come up with an insinuation that I am trying to alter history. We all saw a joke of a fight but disagree that it was in any way fixed as you alluded to. Fine if the whole board wants to jump to that conclusion, I wont and believe that pro boxers have a little more integrity.

Cut carry on.

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:12 pm

Ronikara wrote:
azania wrote:I honestly believe Haye does not trust his chin enough at HW to risk a warm up fight so he shouts from the rooftop to secure a fight with Vitali.

Not sure I agree with you here Az, Haye took some of Wlad's best shots and wasn't wobbled. I don't think Haye would be troubled by the punch power of a Povetkin or Chisora

I agree. I dont think he has the confidence himself in his chin though. Perhaps the shots he took from Wlad without flinching will give him the confidence he lacks. But Haye is big news in HW boxing and its easier for him to shout saying Vit cant KO me (not that I will beat or KO Vit) so let him try it.

by Super D Boon Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:12 pm

azania wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:
azania wrote:Gibe it a rest rowley. I have my opinions and have justified my comment. Quit the wind up please. Its a little naughty of you.

Maybe if it were actually an opinion, you'd have a fighting chance. But rather, it's simply a load of cobblers which you're only spouting due to it conflicting with the opinions of ninety-nine percent of other members, which in turn satisfies your little "Oh, everyone's saying this, so I'm going to argue the other side no matter how insane it is, because it gets me a lot of attention" needs and tendancies.

Yes, of course, Haye-Harrison wasn't an embarrassing affair at all. In fact, it was a glorious event which gave British boxing a much-needed shot in the arm. Yes, of course, Haye has a Heavyweight resumé to match both Wladimir and Vitali. To deny this is simply to let an irrational dislike of you cloud one's judgement.

"Debate what's written, not the poster" is what you always tell us, Az. Well that's exactly what we're doing - but it just so happens that you are, I'm afraid to say, writing rubbish.

I think I'll write an article on how elephants are bigger than koala bears so you can inform us all that this, in fact, isn't the case at all and that koala bears are much bigger, and that we're only saying otherwise because we're stubborn and the like.

Rubbish and your comments, although humurous and not backed up by whet I wrote.

I wrote: Also the hype was entertaining and very funny (not as funny as the fight but the joke was on us). And then you come up with an insinuation that I am trying to alter history. We all saw a joke of a fight but disagree that it was in any way fixed as you alluded to. Fine if the whole board wants to jump to that conclusion, I wont and believe that pro boxers have a little more integrity.

Cut carry on.

Do stop it! My colleagues are wondering why I'm in cracking up!

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:15 pm

Boon, I seriously think you will be forever one of life foot soldiers and sheeple. thumbsup

by manos de piedra Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:20 pm

azania wrote:I'd certainly pick Barret to beat at most 50% of K2 victims. I'll stick with 90% for Valuev and similar or perhaps slightly lower with Ruiz. The division is that bad. Solis was unfortunately injured and I believe he will turn out to be the best of the lot when he fully recovers and gets another shot.

Well what dos it say about Ruiz and Barrett that as bad a the division was they still hadnt been top ranked heavyweights for about 5 years when Haye fought them.

Even at their absolute best going back probably to the 2002 mark I wouldnt have much faith in their chances. Ruiz would have been ok maybe at times but Barrett was a hopeless boxer by even the worst imagineable heavyweight era.

The versions Haye beat though were just useless. Ruiz had lost every meaningful fight for about 5 years and Barrett had lost every meaningful fight for his entire career.

If by beating 90% or 50% of victims you are including the guys the Klitschkos fought on their way up then maybe (even then I wouldnt be sure) but if you mean the actual business/championship end of their careers then cant see it happening.

by **oxring** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:26 pm

manos de piedra wrote:
azania wrote:
oxring wrote:
azania wrote:Bit unkind to Haye re fixing fights. Is there proof of this (I genuinely dont know). His HW resume is no worse than K2....such is the HW scene now.

Wladimir: Byrd (2), Mercer, Peter(2), Ibragimov, Rahman, Thompson, Chagaev, Chambers
Vitali: Donald, Sanders, Gomez, Arreola, Johnson, Sosnowski, Briggs, Solis, Adamek, Peter

Haye: Bonin, Barrett, Valuev, Ruiz, Harrison

I'd pick Valuev and Ruiz to beat 90% of the K2 victims. Barret would be 50/50 and Haye would beat a few of K2 victims. The only stand out there was Donald and I dont know how ambitious he was as many tend to lose ambition the moment they step into the ring with Wlad.

Not a chance. The washed up Ruiz and Barrett that Haye faced would be cannon fodder. Valuev would have more success but he lost to Haye and Chagaev who were Klitschko victims and wouldnt be much better than 50/50 even against guys like Ibragimov, Solis and Byrd.

Barrett to beat 50% of the Kbros opposition? Not a hope in hell - but incidentally - Wlad-K also beat Barrett - a better version of Barrett than Haye.

I didn't bother to mention Monte on Wlad's list because, of course, Byrd, Peter, Ibragimov, Rahman, Chagaev have all been world champions, whereas Barrett was and always was a journeyman (and not even that by the time Haye beat him).

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:27 pm

Chagaev also battered Valuev

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:28 pm

manos de piedra wrote:
azania wrote:I'd certainly pick Barret to beat at most 50% of K2 victims. I'll stick with 90% for Valuev and similar or perhaps slightly lower with Ruiz. The division is that bad. Solis was unfortunately injured and I believe he will turn out to be the best of the lot when he fully recovers and gets another shot.

Well what dos it say about Ruiz and Barrett that as bad a the division was they still hadnt been top ranked heavyweights for about 5 years when Haye fought them.

Even at their absolute best going back probably to the 2002 mark I wouldnt have much faith in their chances. Ruiz would have been ok maybe at times but Barrett was a hopeless boxer by even the worst imagineable heavyweight era.

The versions Haye beat though were just useless. Ruiz had lost every meaningful fight for about 5 years and Barrett had lost every meaningful fight for his entire career.

If by beating 90% or 50% of victims you are including the guys the Klitschkos fought on their way up then maybe (even then I wouldnt be sure) but if you mean the actual business/championship end of their careers then cant see it happening.

I suggest you stop my friend you may have hands of stone but he has a brain of stone. Only thing that can and judging by his posts has been affecting him is erosion.

by Super D Boon Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:59 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:
azania wrote:I'd certainly pick Barret to beat at most 50% of K2 victims. I'll stick with 90% for Valuev and similar or perhaps slightly lower with Ruiz. The division is that bad. Solis was unfortunately injured and I believe he will turn out to be the best of the lot when he fully recovers and gets another shot.

Well what dos it say about Ruiz and Barrett that as bad a the division was they still hadnt been top ranked heavyweights for about 5 years when Haye fought them.

Even at their absolute best going back probably to the 2002 mark I wouldnt have much faith in their chances. Ruiz would have been ok maybe at times but Barrett was a hopeless boxer by even the worst imagineable heavyweight era.

The versions Haye beat though were just useless. Ruiz had lost every meaningful fight for about 5 years and Barrett had lost every meaningful fight for his entire career.

If by beating 90% or 50% of victims you are including the guys the Klitschkos fought on their way up then maybe (even then I wouldnt be sure) but if you mean the actual business/championship end of their careers then cant see it happening.

I suggest you stop my friend you may have hands of stone but he has a brain of stone. Only thing that can and judging by his posts has been affecting him is erosion.

Indeed, one cannot reason or argue with a man who's head is made of concrete!

by rycoys Wed 04 Apr 2012, 7:23 pm

Valero's Conscience wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:Because Haye is an egotistical prat who is deluded enough to think that the whole Heavyweight division revolves around him. He badly overestimates just how highly rated he is amongst boxing fans and how much of a 'star' he is.

Totally agree. I actually like him a lot more than most on here seem to but his head is thoroughly up his own asshoolio.

I also think he's made a seriously large amount of money in his last few fights and happy to sit back and enjoy life.

Shame as he would be popular in the US and add a lot of excitement especially as he should beat all the guys over there and make some easy cash!

dont see how he overestimates how highly rated he is he bring thousands of people home and abroad to watch and there is always a huge media intrest in him, like him or not that comes from he has a serious talent at boxing, i agree he should prove himself more but when he does fight vitali he will still take thousands of fans to germany alot more than chisora did or anyone eles could ,

by monty junior Wed 04 Apr 2012, 7:25 pm

manos de piedra wrote:
azania wrote:I'd certainly pick Barret to beat at most 50% of K2 victims. I'll stick with 90% for Valuev and similar or perhaps slightly lower with Ruiz. The division is that bad. Solis was unfortunately injured and I believe he will turn out to be the best of the lot when he fully recovers and gets another shot.

Well what dos it say about Ruiz and Barrett that as bad a the division was they still hadnt been top ranked heavyweights for about 5 years when Haye fought them.

Even at their absolute best going back probably to the 2002 mark I wouldnt have much faith in their chances. Ruiz would have been ok maybe at times but Barrett was a hopeless boxer by even the worst imagineable heavyweight era.

The versions Haye beat though were just useless. Ruiz had lost every meaningful fight for about 5 years and Barrett had lost every meaningful fight for his entire career.

If by beating 90% or 50% of victims you are including the guys the Klitschkos fought on their way up then maybe (even then I wouldnt be sure) but if you mean the actual business/championship end of their careers then cant see it happening.

Barrett was rubbish even at his best, Wladimir fought him in his prime and knocked him down five times and stopped him in 7 round back in 2000. Barrett would barely figure in Wlad's top 20 win's. Ruiz was ok in his prime, took care of a shot Holyfield but was humiliated by former middleweights Jones and Toney. A shot Ruiz is little more than a journeymen, only decent heavy Haye has on his resume is Valuev.

by azania Wed 04 Apr 2012, 7:43 pm

manos de piedra wrote:
azania wrote:I'd certainly pick Barret to beat at most 50% of K2 victims. I'll stick with 90% for Valuev and similar or perhaps slightly lower with Ruiz. The division is that bad. Solis was unfortunately injured and I believe he will turn out to be the best of the lot when he fully recovers and gets another shot.

Well what dos it say about Ruiz and Barrett that as bad a the division was they still hadnt been top ranked heavyweights for about 5 years when Haye fought them.

Even at their absolute best going back probably to the 2002 mark I wouldnt have much faith in their chances. Ruiz would have been ok maybe at times but Barrett was a hopeless boxer by even the worst imagineable heavyweight era.

The versions Haye beat though were just useless. Ruiz had lost every meaningful fight for about 5 years and Barrett had lost every meaningful fight for his entire career.

If by beating 90% or 50% of victims you are including the guys the Klitschkos fought on their way up then maybe (even then I wouldnt be sure) but if you mean the actual business/championship end of their careers then cant see it happening.

What is says is the complete and utter dearth of talent in the HW division that challengers that K2 have faced have even come near a top 10 ranking. 15 years ago not one of them would be anywhere near a title shot. Those eastern euro plodders would be on building sites between fights.

Such is the lack of talent that Ruiz is a so-called 3 time HW champ. Unbelievable. Such is the lack of talent that Sam Peters can have 2 shots at the title and even hold the WBC belt.

My point is that all of them are totally useless that a man like Valuev would possibly beat 90% of all K2 challengers. Thats my opinion and its not because Valuev et al are that good, its because the challengers have been that bad. Which is a total shame because I firmly believe that Wlad would hold his own in most eras and would have fought for the title in the 1970s.

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