Scarlets and Blues must change name and colours for the good of regional rugby.

First topic message reminder :

I am not sure what this magical plan from the WRU is or if there will be an extra regional or a reshuffle, but I think that the cheapest, easiest and most important thing right now is for the Blues and Scarlets to lose their club identity. They are meant to be regions, not clubs. Everyone is slagging off the Blues at the moment, but the Scarlets are even worse. The Scarlets was the alternative name for Llanelli RFC since time began. Their jerseys look almost the same as they did when it was pre 2003 Llanelli, so what has really changed?

The only problem with the regions is the fans from Bridgend and Pontypridd refuse to recognise them.

martyr_94 wrote:Steffan what are you on about, the regions are one of the main reasons why Wales have 3 grandslams to their name in the last 7 years.

Stop winging about the regions. They're here to stay and the vast majority want them to stay, but with changes into the way they are run.

You mean the vast majority of fans of the current regional teams (all c. 28,000 of them in total)?

The 'vast majority' of the population (and more than a million watched the grand slam decider on telly) couldn't give a stuff about the regional teams any more.

Whatever Roger, Dai and the accountants dream up - it must appeal to more of the potential fan base - or the regions will die, through lack of funds if nothing else.

C all 28,000 is the average gate not the number of fans.

More than a million watched the grand slam decider I assume is a figure u plucked from the air rather than a knowledgeble fact, more than 6 million watch Coronation Street !!!!! are you suggesting we should all start supporting that instead or is Sesame street more your level ?

Well said Casartelli

This attitude of "The current Cardiff, Llanelli, Newport and Ospreys setup is here to stay whether you like it or not" is the very reason the crowds and interest is so poor. Maybe if people (like the WRU and people on here) were actually willing to listen at the reasons people dont go then we wouldnt be in this mess

2ndtimeround wrote:are you suggesting we should all start supporting that instead or is Sesame street more your level ?

Petty insults tut tut

lol. couldn@t resist
Incidently I dont think q
uoting half a sentence really captures the true context. Just a thought

The concept of the regions is supported, but some people feel they aren't represented by one. North Wales want a REGION don't they, the valley's want a REGION don't they. Like I said there needs to be changes in the way their run to change the common conception that they are 'super clubs', something the Osprey's and Scarlets have done very well. The club era has gone and this concept can work and has worked for the national team.

2ndtimeround wrote:C all 28,000 is the average gate not the number of fans.

More than a million watched the grand slam decider I assume is a figure u plucked from the air rather than a knowledgeble fact, more than 6 million watch Coronation Street !!!!! are you suggesting we should all start supporting that instead or is Sesame street more your level ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17559253

Grand Slam: Almost half of Wales watched rugby team win Six Nations...
A million viewers watched on TV as Wales beat France to win the Six Nations Grand Slam, while thousands more watched in bars, pubs and rugby clubs...
Almost half the population of Wales watched the national rugby team beat France to win the Six Nations Grand Slam on TV, BBC figures show.

A million watched the game on the BBC - the highest TV audience in Wales in two years - and a further 400,000 saw coverage later in the weekend.

Not good to just believe BBC's own sel promoting comments, if your working on 1,000,000 viewers are you assuming that no French fans watched the game, the whole point of basing your argument on a grand slam decider is a liitle silly at best as the sheer nature off the game would have atracted a larger than usuall audience in the same way that an FA cup final attracts a bigger audience than a Man Utd V Barcelona game even though they are potentially the biggest clubs in Football.
This thread was about wether the Blues and the Scarlets should give up their identity for the good of Welsh rugby, I for one can see no benefit to either region folding as I truly can not see either of the the regions contesting for the position to take over having a viable buisness model.

True I don't like football,i don't support any team but even i watch the FA cup final.

Casartelli - To be honest where I work there are about 60 employees (but that has dropped recently), and I would say that there are about three/four of us who follow rugby, and the rest are avid football fans. Even over a HEC weekend the best rugby conversation I will get out of them is a mocking if the Scarlets underperform, or if the Ospreys do really well. However ever time the 6Ns rolls around there are about 60 of us who are rugby fans. 90% of it has nothing to do with rugby, and a heap to do with having a good laugh and joke and atmosphere in the pub whilst getting pie-eyed in the mid/late afternoon without anyone else looking down on them!

2ndtimeround wrote:Not good to just believe BBC's own sel promoting comments, if your working on 1,000,000 viewers are you assuming that no French fans watched the game, the whole point of basing your argument on a grand slam decider is a liitle silly at best as the sheer nature off the game would have atracted a larger than usuall audience in the same way that an FA cup final attracts a bigger audience than a Man Utd V Barcelona game even though they are potentially the biggest clubs in Football.
This thread was about wether the Blues and the Scarlets should give up their identity for the good of Welsh rugby, I for one can see no benefit to either region folding as I truly can not see either of the the regions contesting for the position to take over having a viable buisness model.

Erm, I think you've misread the stats. They're saying that around 1 million people in Wales watched the match. Figures for those watching in France and elsewhere are separate

Kiwi.

I didnt misread anything, if u read the rest of the thread I was actually quoting another poster and stating the fact of 1m was incorrect as it was just what the Beeb were claiming had watched their coverage, I would have quoted it directly but am new to the site and have not figured out how to extract part posts as quotes yet.

Casartelli wrote:
You mean the vast majority of fans of the current regional teams (all c. 28,000 of them in total)?

The 'vast majority' of the population (and more than a million watched the grand slam decider on telly) couldn't give a stuff about the regional teams any more.

Whatever Roger, Dai and the accountants dream up - it must appeal to more of the potential fan base - or the regions will die, through lack of funds if nothing else.

What makes you think the vast majority of those fans give a stuff about any other rugby other than international? be that the current regional rugby, the previous club rugby (that had almost all of the clubs on the verge of bankrupcy due to poor interest and high costs) or the proposed East, West, North, South regions posted on here have proposed (that would still be based in Swansea/Llanelli, Cardiff, Ponty and Colwyn Bay/Wrexham).

Also you're figures of £5.5m debt for the Scarlets - as I'm sure you know as it's been pointed out quite a few times by posters on here - those figures are from 2010.
Since then we've cut huge amounts of costs, particularly the wage bill, renogotiated our loans, defferred payment on the CCC loan (which means no interest is added to the amount/built up for another 2 years) and payed off over half of the £5.5m debt - we are not making a loss, we are (very) slowly paying off the debts we'd built up from mismanagement over the last 5-7 years.

2ndtimeround wrote:Kiwi.

I didnt misread anything, if u read the rest of the thread I was actually quoting another poster and stating the fact of 1m was incorrect as it was just what the Beeb were claiming had watched their coverage, I would have quoted it directly but am new to the site and have not figured out how to extract part posts as quotes yet.

Ahh, sorry.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Casartelli wrote:
You mean the vast majority of fans of the current regional teams (all c. 28,000 of them in total)?

The 'vast majority' of the population (and more than a million watched the grand slam decider on telly) couldn't give a stuff about the regional teams any more.

Whatever Roger, Dai and the accountants dream up - it must appeal to more of the potential fan base - or the regions will die, through lack of funds if nothing else.

What makes you think the vast majority of those fans give a stuff about any other rugby other than international? be that the current regional rugby, the previous club rugby (that had almost all of the clubs on the verge of bankrupcy due to poor interest and high costs) or the proposed East, West, North, South regions posted on here have proposed (that would still be based in Swansea/Llanelli, Cardiff, Ponty and Colwyn Bay/Wrexham).

Also you're figures of £5.5m debt for the Scarlets - as I'm sure you know as it's been pointed out quite a few times by posters on here - those figures are from 2010.
Since then we've cut huge amounts of costs, particularly the wage bill, renogotiated our loans, defferred payment on the CCC loan (which means no interest is added to the amount/built up for another 2 years) and payed off over half of the £5.5m debt - we are not making a loss, we are (very) slowly paying off the debts we'd built up from mismanagement over the last 5-7 years.

Sorry - last thing I'll say on this. Deferred interest does not mean no interest is added. It means the exact opposite. Interest is added to the debt as it falls due - thus increasing the amount owed.

The figures are from 2010 because that is when the last time an audited set of accounts was published. Unless you are, or are intimate with, one of the accountants that work on the file, then you will not know anything more up to date on the state of the finances. If you are, then you wouldn't be disclosing the info on here. Do not believe what you are told down the pub.

The Scarlets debt is increasing (slowly) as interest rolls up. They have made historic losses and, by their own admission, are only 'hoping' to break even this current financial year. They will probably never have any profit/surplus cash to actually start reducing the debts. Maybe, at a push, they could start paying the interest back to the council sometime in the next 5 years.

The financial house of cards will collapse sooner rather than later - probably when interest rates start creeping up again.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Casartelli - To be honest where I work there are about 60 employees (but that has dropped recently), and I would say that there are about three/four of us who follow rugby, and the rest are avid football fans. Even over a HEC weekend the best rugby conversation I will get out of them is a mocking if the Scarlets underperform, or if the Ospreys do really well. However ever time the 6Ns rolls around there are about 60 of us who are rugby fans. 90% of it has nothing to do with rugby, and a heap to do with having a good laugh and joke and atmosphere in the pub whilst getting pie-eyed in the mid/late afternoon without anyone else looking down on them!

Sorry - last thing I'll say on this.

This mass public support is what 'regional' rugby needs to tap into - otherwise it would have been much more straightforward (and cheaper) to promote Llanelli, Swansea, Cardiff and Newport out of the Premiership to regional/superclub status.

2ndtimeround wrote:Not good to just believe BBC's own sel promoting comments, if your working on 1,000,000 viewers are you assuming that no French fans watched the game, the whole point of basing your argument on a grand slam decider is a liitle silly at best as the sheer nature off the game would have atracted a larger than usuall audience in the same way that an FA cup final attracts a bigger audience than a Man Utd V Barcelona game even though they are potentially the biggest clubs in Football.
This thread was about wether the Blues and the Scarlets should give up their identity for the good of Welsh rugby, I for one can see no benefit to either region folding as I truly can not see either of the the regions contesting for the position to take over having a viable buisness model.

Sorry - last thing I'll say on this - You accuse me of plucking the figures out of the air - and then when I quote the BBC as the source, you just type nonsense????

probably best if you just ...... ssshhhhhhhh.....lol

Casartelli wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Casartelli wrote:
You mean the vast majority of fans of the current regional teams (all c. 28,000 of them in total)?

The 'vast majority' of the population (and more than a million watched the grand slam decider on telly) couldn't give a stuff about the regional teams any more.

Whatever Roger, Dai and the accountants dream up - it must appeal to more of the potential fan base - or the regions will die, through lack of funds if nothing else.

What makes you think the vast majority of those fans give a stuff about any other rugby other than international? be that the current regional rugby, the previous club rugby (that had almost all of the clubs on the verge of bankrupcy due to poor interest and high costs) or the proposed East, West, North, South regions posted on here have proposed (that would still be based in Swansea/Llanelli, Cardiff, Ponty and Colwyn Bay/Wrexham).

Also you're figures of £5.5m debt for the Scarlets - as I'm sure you know as it's been pointed out quite a few times by posters on here - those figures are from 2010.
Since then we've cut huge amounts of costs, particularly the wage bill, renogotiated our loans, defferred payment on the CCC loan (which means no interest is added to the amount/built up for another 2 years) and payed off over half of the £5.5m debt - we are not making a loss, we are (very) slowly paying off the debts we'd built up from mismanagement over the last 5-7 years.

Sorry - last thing I'll say on this. Deferred interest does not mean no interest is added. It means the exact opposite. Interest is added to the debt as it falls due - thus increasing the amount owed.

The figures are from 2010 because that is when the last time an audited set of accounts was published. Unless you are, or are intimate with, one of the accountants that work on the file, then you will not know anything more up to date on the state of the finances. If you are, then you wouldn't be disclosing the info on here. Do not believe what you are told down the pub.

The Scarlets debt is increasing (slowly) as interest rolls up. They have made historic losses and, by their own admission, are only 'hoping' to break even this current financial year. They will probably never have any profit/surplus cash to actually start reducing the debts. Maybe, at a push, they could start paying the interest back to the council sometime in the next 5 years.

The financial house of cards will collapse sooner rather than later - probably when interest rates start creeping up again.

Cyril - Figures have been released quoting debts reduced to £2m since 2010, fair enough these aren't full accounts - also Carms Council and Scarlets are both confident that the loans are being paid and the amounts are reducing (ie their not just servicing interest, or just paying the minimum while a greater amount of interest builds up) this is because the council aren't charging interest as they stated, and as the Scarlets stated they will by making profit on top of paying off the debt in 2 years. It is not that they can't currently pay off any debt and have a growing mountain of debt building while sinking further in to debt by increasing the £5.5m. The opposite is true and has been underlined by both the Scarlets and CCC, the rest of the debt (I believe but don't hold me to this) is owed to the Scarlets directors.

Casartelli.

Sorry to mate last thing I'll say on this is hope you enjoy things in your own little world were you can cherry pick little bit of information that seem to fit your viewpoint.

Most of us prefer to keep an open mind and live in the present.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Casartelli wrote:
You mean the vast majority of fans of the current regional teams (all c. 28,000 of them in total)?

The 'vast majority' of the population (and more than a million watched the grand slam decider on telly) couldn't give a stuff about the regional teams any more.

Whatever Roger, Dai and the accountants dream up - it must appeal to more of the potential fan base - or the regions will die, through lack of funds if nothing else.

What makes you think the vast majority of those fans give a stuff about any other rugby other than international? be that the current regional rugby, the previous club rugby (that had almost all of the clubs on the verge of bankrupcy due to poor interest and high costs) or the proposed East, West, North, South regions posted on here have proposed (that would still be based in Swansea/Llanelli, Cardiff, Ponty and Colwyn Bay/Wrexham).

Also you're figures of £5.5m debt for the Scarlets - as I'm sure you know as it's been pointed out quite a few times by posters on here - those figures are from 2010.
Since then we've cut huge amounts of costs, particularly the wage bill, renogotiated our loans, defferred payment on the CCC loan (which means no interest is added to the amount/built up for another 2 years) and payed off over half of the £5.5m debt - we are not making a loss, we are (very) slowly paying off the debts we'd built up from mismanagement over the last 5-7 years.

Sorry - last thing I'll say on this. Deferred interest does not mean no interest is added. It means the exact opposite. Interest is added to the debt as it falls due - thus increasing the amount owed.

The figures are from 2010 because that is when the last time an audited set of accounts was published. Unless you are, or are intimate with, one of the accountants that work on the file, then you will not know anything more up to date on the state of the finances. If you are, then you wouldn't be disclosing the info on here. Do not believe what you are told down the pub.

The Scarlets debt is increasing (slowly) as interest rolls up. They have made historic losses and, by their own admission, are only 'hoping' to break even this current financial year. They will probably never have any profit/surplus cash to actually start reducing the debts. Maybe, at a push, they could start paying the interest back to the council sometime in the next 5 years.

The financial house of cards will collapse sooner rather than later - probably when interest rates start creeping up again.

Cyril - Figures have been released quoting debts reduced to £2m since 2010, fair enough these aren't full accounts - also Carms Council and Scarlets are both confident that the loans are being paid and the amounts are reducing (ie their not just servicing interest, or just paying the minimum while a greater amount of interest builds up) this is because the council aren't charging interest as they stated, and as the Scarlets stated they will by making profit on top of paying off the debt in 2 years. It is not that they can't currently pay off any debt and have a growing mountain of debt building while sinking further in to debt by increasing the £5.5m. The opposite is true and has been underlined by both the Scarlets and CCC, the rest of the debt (I believe but don't hold me to this) is owed to the Scarlets directors.

I hope, for Llanelli's sake, you are right.

But I can't help thinking that even if any of that were even remotely accurate, that Mark Davies, new CEO at Llanelli Scarlets, would have mentioned some of it when he was challenged by the BBC after the auditors raised 'material concerns' over the organisation's future as a going concern.

But he didn't.

He confirmed the trading losses and the amount of debt. The most positive comment that he could make was that he hoped to break even next year.

Keep praying for that miracle, boys.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-15581439

Lets hope the Scarlets go under in the next couple of years

Steffan wrote:Lets hope the Scarlets go under in the next couple of years

Typical football fan comment.

How am I a football fan?

Its what u have quoted on your profile !!!!!

Not difficult to work out

Good enough if they do go bust. Spend years bleeding the WRU of money. Spat their dummies out about standing alone. Reckoned they were bigger than every other club put together. Nothing to do with football. Scarlets deserve everything bad they get

Smirnoff - "Figures have been released quoting debts reduced to £2m since 2010..."

Any chance you could post a link on here so we can have a look? Can't find anything anywhere online???

(Delme heard it off Iestyn down the Halfway doesn't count as 'released'...)

Steffan
Scarlets are the least endebted of all 4 welsh regions according to what is been quoted by other posters getting figures from Companies house, hardly a position from which they are likely to go bust, as much as the ex Warriors fans would like to see this happen its hardly a reality.
The reality is they are a 21st century region with state of the art facilities and a buisness plan that will see them continue to grow. Its a pity there are still Welsh Rugby fans in some areas stuch in the last Century mourning what could have been.

Steffan wrote:Lets hope the Scarlets go under in the next couple of years

Any why would you do that? The Scarlets are the team that cover West Wales. The proper West Wales, that is pretty much forgotten about by the majority of people on here. There is actually a fair amount of Wales that is further west than Carmarthen. We have a region, and we follow that region. I travel a 120 mile round trip to see my region play at home. Surely you petty little valleys kids can stop bitching at us and get of your backsides and go to see your region, which is not realistically out of traveling distance now is it!

Casartelli wrote:Smirnoff - "Figures have been released quoting debts reduced to £2m since 2010..."

Any chance you could post a link on here so we can have a look? Can't find anything anywhere online???

(Delme heard it off Iestyn down the Halfway doesn't count as 'released'...)

https://www.606v2.com/t27754-are-wasps-the-tip-of-the-iceberg

Read this thread it covers the net worth of all the welsh regions, and the Jeff sides too. It will show that the Scarlets actually have the most net worth of all the regions.

"Wales

WRU +£5.3m
Cardiff Rugby Football Club Ltd -£6.0m
Dragons Rugby Ltd -£2.2m
Ospreys Rugby Ltd -£2.9m
Scarlets Regional Ltd -£2.1m"


Steffan - looking at those figures are you hoping that the Blues, then the Ospreys, then the Dragons go bust before the Scarlets. After all your arguement for wanting to see the Scarlets out of business was that we are in debt.

Scarlet Spiderman, so the Scarlets have only 2 million in debt?

But this season's BBC Interview (November 2011) with your CEO says you have over 5.5 million in debt.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-15581439

they were talking about the figures from up to June 2010 Stag

red_stag wrote:Scarlet Spiderman, so the Scarlets have only 2 million in debt?

But this season's BBC Interview (November 2011) with your CEO says you have over 5.5 million in debt.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-15581439

Stag - the link I put in my earlier post should take you to a thread that those figures came from, and from what I can see they seem reliable and pretty accurate. The Scarlets have been making real strides into clearing their debts. However you tend not to get told about things like that as it isn't doom and gloom or back biting that the welsh public seem to prefer to read in their rugby press.

It doesn't seem possible that a Welsh region could clear 3.4m though in less than 2 years, your crowds aren't that good!

I think a lot of our debt has been owed to our benefactors gowales, and I think some of them have agreed to wave the debt aside. Something like that.

We've renegotiated a lot of our contract of utility bills and stuff too (what we were paying before I shudder to think, but word is that we were paying far FAR more than was needed)

Added to that we've stopped the big name signings, have had a load of big salary players leave or retire, and we've upped the non rugby events that all generate money for us.

gowales wrote:It doesn't seem possible that a Welsh region could clear 3.4m though in less than 2 years, your crowds aren't that good!

go we have cut back hugely on expences (Big wage players leaving, and yongsters on cheap deals coming through), and we have really started to utilise our best asset, the stadium. They have held Darts, International u20s football, Swansea City Reserves, Llanelli FC V Man Unt, Enjoy Festival etc etc. I think those sort of things have really helped us out.

aha!

Old article, they changed their loans into shares, reducing our debt by 40%

http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/3148.php

To be fair, of the four "regions" the Scarlets do have the biggest average attendance. , and I am not talking the odd Welsh derby or a HC match, I am looking at all the games attendances and they all seem to be around the 7-8 thousand mark.

Yep Dowlais, for the LV game's too. Looking like we should get another pretty good crowd for Sat too.

Would love it if we could push on up to the 9-10K mark though. That would be brilliant.

rugbydreamer wrote:Yep Dowlais, for the LV game's too. Looking like we should get another pretty good crowd for Sat too.

Would love it if we could push on up to the 9-10K mark though. That would be brilliant.

I think you will dreamer, as long as you keep pushing around all of West Wales they will come.

Hope so Dowlais. I know we've been doing some rfc roadshows around the region in the last week or so, so hopefully that'll encourage more people to come!

Can't wait to get back to PyS myself for Sat, match days there really are v good

Roadshow up in Ammanford today, reckon now Shane has retired we could be trying to win back the fanbase up there back of the O's. full marks for effort.

would make sense really, now is a very good time to at least try it anyways!

Casartelli wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Casartelli wrote:
You mean the vast majority of fans of the current regional teams (all c. 28,000 of them in total)?

The 'vast majority' of the population (and more than a million watched the grand slam decider on telly) couldn't give a stuff about the regional teams any more.

Whatever Roger, Dai and the accountants dream up - it must appeal to more of the potential fan base - or the regions will die, through lack of funds if nothing else.

What makes you think the vast majority of those fans give a stuff about any other rugby other than international? be that the current regional rugby, the previous club rugby (that had almost all of the clubs on the verge of bankrupcy due to poor interest and high costs) or the proposed East, West, North, South regions posted on here have proposed (that would still be based in Swansea/Llanelli, Cardiff, Ponty and Colwyn Bay/Wrexham).

Also you're figures of £5.5m debt for the Scarlets - as I'm sure you know as it's been pointed out quite a few times by posters on here - those figures are from 2010.
Since then we've cut huge amounts of costs, particularly the wage bill, renogotiated our loans, defferred payment on the CCC loan (which means no interest is added to the amount/built up for another 2 years) and payed off over half of the £5.5m debt - we are not making a loss, we are (very) slowly paying off the debts we'd built up from mismanagement over the last 5-7 years.

Sorry - last thing I'll say on this. Deferred interest does not mean no interest is added. It means the exact opposite. Interest is added to the debt as it falls due - thus increasing the amount owed.

The figures are from 2010 because that is when the last time an audited set of accounts was published. Unless you are, or are intimate with, one of the accountants that work on the file, then you will not know anything more up to date on the state of the finances. If you are, then you wouldn't be disclosing the info on here. Do not believe what you are told down the pub.

The Scarlets debt is increasing (slowly) as interest rolls up. They have made historic losses and, by their own admission, are only 'hoping' to break even this current financial year. They will probably never have any profit/surplus cash to actually start reducing the debts. Maybe, at a push, they could start paying the interest back to the council sometime in the next 5 years.

The financial house of cards will collapse sooner rather than later - probably when interest rates start creeping up again.

Cyril - Figures have been released quoting debts reduced to £2m since 2010, fair enough these aren't full accounts - also Carms Council and Scarlets are both confident that the loans are being paid and the amounts are reducing (ie their not just servicing interest, or just paying the minimum while a greater amount of interest builds up) this is because the council aren't charging interest as they stated, and as the Scarlets stated they will by making profit on top of paying off the debt in 2 years. It is not that they can't currently pay off any debt and have a growing mountain of debt building while sinking further in to debt by increasing the £5.5m. The opposite is true and has been underlined by both the Scarlets and CCC, the rest of the debt (I believe but don't hold me to this) is owed to the Scarlets directors.

I hope, for Llanelli's sake, you are right.

But I can't help thinking that even if any of that were even remotely accurate, that Mark Davies, new CEO at Llanelli Scarlets, would have mentioned some of it when he was challenged by the BBC after the auditors raised 'material concerns' over the organisation's future as a going concern.

But he didn't.

He confirmed the trading losses and the amount of debt. The most positive comment that he could make was that he hoped to break even next year.

Keep praying for that miracle, boys.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-15581439

Cyril the link you posted doesn't contradict anything I've said, the debt was from 2010 and most people on here has said the debt was £5.5m in 2010 (mainly from recovering from the botched move and ensueing legal dispute and expensive middle of the road signings).
He also said that the majority of the debt is owed to the Directors of the Scarlets who aren't likely to call in the debt are they?
Mark Davies said "the Scarlets had made huge strides forwards in the last year" which they have seeing as they've reduced the debt, increased income and reduced expenditure.
They are also looking to further increase income by holding things like music festivals and corporate events at the stadium.
All these improvements have effected the balance sheet post 2010 yet the Western Fail repeatedly brings up the 2010 figures in scare mongering stories (while ignoring the other regions) saying that the Scarlets will cease to be in the next 2 years (this is said every 2 years). From the tone and the figures quoted it seems very likely that the BBC have merely used the WM article as their evidence.

The Scarlets Regional Ltd (Company No. 03389199) y/e 2011 figures can now be viewed at Companies House. They would appear to make pretty grim reading.

Income is down massively at £7.6m (£8.9m prev. year).

Loss after interest and tax was £1.8m (£2.9m prev. year).

The property owned is worth less than last year.

As Dreamer suggested, there appears to have been some switching around of directors loans and share capital, but nothing has actually been repaid. In fact, long term loans appear to now stand at a mind-boggling £8.9m!!!

The three major shareholders are Huw Evans, Grenville Wise and Phillip Davies.

The Chief Executive lives in a place called Hartley Wintney, which is mildly amusing. Good local boy.

As always, this is not a dig solely at the Scarlets. The Western Mail will have a field day with it but their losses were less massive than last year and all the regions finances are probably just as dire.

This just isn't sustainable - Roger's 'radical' solution for regional rugby is long overdue.

The property owned is worth less than last year.

Of course it is! It's called 'depreciation' you claim it against tax.

Glas a du wrote:

The property owned is worth less than last year.

Of course it is! It's called 'depreciation' you claim it against tax.

There's no tax to pay when you're making losses. 'Doh'.

where have you read that long term loans are at 8.9million??

and how is a reduction of almost a £1mil in our loss, grim??

It's on the balance sheet. If you pay c.£2 you can log in and get a report on the whole thing.

Long Term Debt
Group Loans (long t.)
Director Loans (long t.)
Hire Purch. & Leas. (long t.)
Hire Purchase (long t.)
Leasing (long t.)
Preference Shares
Other Long Term Loans £8.871m

A £1.8m loss is grim because it's £1.8m. With revenue falling and costs already (by the Scarlets fans' own admission) slashed - how are they ever going to break even, let alone turn a profit?

Huw, Gren and Phil better have VERY deep pockets if this is going to limp along for another couple of seasons.

and yet you can't see that it's good that they've reduced it down to £1.8m from £2.9m from the previous year. Seriously?