England forwards youth or experience

On many of the team and squad selection threads it seems most people want the england management to be forward thinking and select younger players. As soon as a player hits 30 he becomes unpopular and it is often said that he is too old for international rugby.

I have noticed that some other sides often pick forwards well into their 30's, Ireland and France at test level and in this sundays HC semi-final both teams front 5 were well into to their 30's (brad thorn at 37).

I believe that experience in key positions in the pack, particuluarly at lock and in the front row is key to success at club and test level, England shouldnt be relying totally on younger players and that includes this summers tour to SA.

Speaking from a personal point of view I don't believe as soon as a player hits 30 they are done, but I do start having creeping doubts about who will replace them. I am ever concious (as I think other England fans are) of the sheer inexperience and lack of quality that was left after the 2003 generation hung up their boots.

I think all teams around the top six in the IRB rankings will be gunning for the coverted 4th place seeding spot at the end of the year. So picking a player for the future over a player in form may be a touch premature this summer.

England may well see the return of a few players discarded for their six nations campaign that are in good premiership form return to the large touring party Lancaster is planning.

A 40 man squad would give plenty of room to bring in experience as well as youth, add the midweek games, (hooray to the RFU and SARFU for their inclusion), and their is te and opportunity to both be their most competitive as well as looking to the future.

You pick a player if they are still the best available.

If you have two players of similar ability you should pick the younger one always - more potential and longevity.

If you give youngsters game time they will have both the youth and experience.

If one of your mainstays dips in form you give someone else a go simple.

The problem with England that there was an over reliance on average players who are old such as Easter at 8.

He was alright but there was no alternative because no one else was tried out as a proper 8. Now Ben Morgan has emerged - a younger, more talented player.

Let's see the likes of Garvey,Launchbury,Marler and co get a chance in the pack.

Wales are a perfect example of benefitting from throwing players in the deep end.

They have a really nice youthful backrow in particular.

i understand the need to keep bringing through young players and giving them test experience but I feel the tendency is to lean towards the youngers players before they have proven themselves.

I just feel that in ireland and France they recognise the value of experience more than england do. Wales are an exception having had some success with younger players but their front row is still an experienced one.

Whenever a question like this comes up my opinion is always the same, it's got to be done on a case by case basis.

I'd start with pretty much the finishing Six Nations pack.

Corbisiero, Hartley, Cole, Botha, Parling, Croft, Robshaw and Morgan. If that too means Mears, Stevens, Lawes and Dowson on the bench I wouldn't complain too loudly.

In the midweek team I think you look at what players are really stepping up and demanding inclusion. For me, Marler, Launchberry and Fearns are three forwards I'm really excited by and would definitely have in the team. You then pick the rest of the squad based on what gaps you need. Palmer and Waldrom (or possibly Easter) are more experience players I might look to take to help some of the younger players through, even if they wouldn't figure in my first team plans.

Wales are a perfect example of benefitting from throwing players in the deep end.

They have a really nice youthful backrow in particular.

They have a backrow of Lydiate (24), Warburton (23) and Faletau (21). They mix that youth with a front row of Rees, Jenkins and Jones (all 31) and a second row of Charteris (29)/Davies (25)/AWJ (26) (pick two of the three). It's a mix of youth and experience and that is the same for all good teams, even in the Welsh backs there is a mix of age and experience.

England should be looking for that same level of equilibrium, the forwards did pretty well in the 6N and so a continuation of the same with some tweaking in the tests (one or two players max) should be good. The mid week team would be the place to experiment but even then I wouldn't want to see all out youth.

I can't see there being too many if any changes to the England squad we saw at the 6N.

Regarding the midweek side, I see it primarily as the opportunity to give the young newcomers their opportunity. That being said I think you need 3 or 4 older heads in there to smooth the new lads in and allow them to perform to their best, with at least 2 of those experienced players in the pack, frontrow & backrow. I think that could be particularly important depending on the composition of the SA midweek side. Is it going to be their young upstarts or veteran campaigners?

Cips is heading home early - is he on a promise by SL for the SA tour? An interesting blend of experience and youth.

I dont see how cips can be called up whilst he has had game time with the rebels they werent playing well as a team and danny wasnt able to influence games much, not necessarily his fault but not a reason to call him up either.

Flood, Farrell, hodgeson, Myler, Burns, lamb and probably ford all ahead of him at the minute.

Matt...Beshocked said it about picking your best players. Age should not be a deciding factor. Front row tend to get better with age and can peak in their early 30s. 2nd rows probably peaking a little before then. Experience does count for an awful lot and having players, or even better combinations, who know what it is like to play 30 test matches and have been to Cardiff, Dublin, Paris, Joburg, Auckland etc really makes a difference. You need some consistence in selection to allow teams to grow, but also not be afraid to make changes when required. A difficult balancing act, which England tend to get wrong.

Matt...Beshocked said it about picking your best players. Age should not be a deciding factor. Front row tend to get better with age and can peak in their early 30s. 2nd rows probably peaking a little before then. Experience does count for an awful lot and having players, or even better combinations, who know what it is like to play 30 test matches and have been to Cardiff, Dublin, Paris, Joburg, Auckland etc really makes a difference. You need some consistence in selection to allow teams to grow, but also not be afraid to make changes when required. A difficult balancing act, which England tend to get wrong.

True hugehandoff.

The difficulty has been for England finding quality youngsters to come in to breach the gap.

Easter was kept so long by England simply because there was virtually no competition at 8.

Now Morgan has emerged as he has been given a chance.

These young guns need more.

In the locks for South Africa you pick the best. Be it Palmer,Botha,Parling or another.

At hooker Hartley stays in by default but other options need to be seriously looked at.

No one is really putting their hands up though.

It's easy to think of a team at a moment in time ie How good is our team now? or how did they play the last time out?

In reality a team is always changing and hopefully developing. A coach with a 4 year contract has to blend the talent, youth and experience. The best sides have always had a balence of youth and experience. It's difficult to pull off - but that's why the best coaches earn good money.

I dont think people want to throw players out as soon as they are 30.

If they are playing well then they should start. Simon Shaw for example was still awesome at 35..and god what i would give to be taking him to South Africa this summer.

The problem is many of the older guys England had were not performing as good as the current youngsters coming through Moody, Tindall etc...or were excellent club players not quite fit for International rugby picked to bridge the gap created by the void of English rugby post 2003...ala Borthwick, Mears, etc.

So i dont think at this exact moment that england have much option but to pick the 6n team...and fill the rest of the squad with the most talented youngsters.

The 6n team now has quite a bit of experience in the forwards, and even younger guys like Tuilagi etc have a world cup iunder their belt.