Ask the Tart: Archive 1

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Thread archived from https://www.606v2.com/t2445-ask-the-tart - Kiwireddevil

CrippledTart wrote:
By popular demand (Miky), here is a v2 verson of my 606 thread "Ask Me Ref".

As stated on the 606 version, this isn't just for people to ask me questions (I do not consider myself to be the biggest wrestling genius in the world contrary to the impression you get from some of my posts!), it's for people to ask questions and ANYONE who knows the answer to provide it.

This is not an opinion thread, per se. It is for those random wrestling musings you may have had but never got the answer to.

So if there's anything you ever wondered about wrestling, and never knew who to ask, go for it.

Bobby Roode wrote:If Hogan and Bischoff could create their perfect wrestler, who or what would it be like?

Hero wrote:2. Austin.
He’s widely regarded as one of if not the greatest ‘star’ to grace the industry. Whilst Hogan & HHH are often derided by the IWC for using their influence and power backstage, Austin seems above derision. Firstly what abuse of politics has Austin been guilty of, and why does he not fall into the Hogan/HHH category in the eyes of the IWC?

Good question. Steve Austin definitely used his political clout at times, but it was when he thought something was bad for business. Triple H and Hogan have a tendency to bury wrestlers they see as a threat, whereas Austin to my knowledge never acted that way.

He was fiercely protective of his character, and a student of the industry who had a good idea of what was good and bad for business. He was also accused of being paranoid at times.

Austin refused to work programmes with Jeff Jarrett and Billy Gunn in the summer of 1999. Gunn because he didn't rate him, Jarrett because the two had personal heat over Jarrett criticising the "Austin 3:16" gimmick as blasphemous. There were rumours he wouldn't put over Triple H in 1999 as well, but these are believed to be unfounded (he did a job for him at No Mercy). He also refused to do the job in an unadvertised match with Brock Lesnar on Raw in 2002, arguing that it would be bad for business. Austin's logic was that, as the biggest name in the company, it would have more effect if Brock ran through others on his way to a big PPV showdown between the two, where he would be happy to put Brock over.

The business he did in 1998 and 1999 was phenomenal, and meant that he had no political challengers. However Triple H's ascendance led to tension, and Austin felt insecure in his spot as the top guy. This led to a drastic change around 2000, when he suddenly became harder to work with. Austin did not take well to Vince having a new favourite, and protected his territory any time he felt challenged. He did not last much longer as a full-time main eventer, mainly because of his condition but also largely because the situation had diminished his passion for wrestling.

Another key was Austin's character: He was the toughest guy in the room. He took on all kinds of numbers and usually won. This made incredible money but did not lend itself to putting others over. In fact the WWF didn't want him doing jobs to anyone when they could help it - even tainted ones - while so much money was rolling in. Austin's character was dominant, not just physically but also in that he took up everyone's attention. This was a big plus for the WWF in his peak run, but in his latter years it became a hindrance. As the sheriff, when he was for all intents and purposes retired, he undercut every wrestler he came into contact with. And without great feuds to sink his teeth into, his promos suffered, he relied more on the tired beer drinking routine, and became something of a parody.

Austin didn't boost an awful lot of careers, but it wasn't with malice. Therein lies the difference between him and Triple H or Hogan. For the most part, he did what he thought was right for business.

I think Wrestler's Court should be used for the more light hearted cases, such as the Foley/Snow & Hardy case mentioned above but if it's something fairly serious that could be detrimental to the locker room morale i.e. Melina's growing ego then I think a more senior member of the locker room should take the accused aside and have a quiet chat with them instead slinging them up in front of everybody else and having a go at them.

Was JBL a complete idiot backstage all the time? By idiot i mean harsh to others etc.

jbl got beaten up backstage which was pretty funny

Holymiky wrote:Was JBL a complete idiot backstage all the time? By idiot i mean harsh to others etc.

Well, he had friends. But he is very old school and militant in his beliefs about how wrestlers should conduct themselves, and about breaking newcomers down to test their will and their dedication to the business. That in itself may not be a bad thing; the irony is that, while he was so obsessed with respect, he showed very little respect to those he considered beneath him, ie the less experienced wrestlers.

He's just a bully, plain and simple. When he was in WWE, he picked on the weak; the easy targets. It all points to a very insecure man, although the fact he spent so many years in the midcard probably added to that insecurity over the years. I think he did mellow somewhat once he made it to the main event, and was certainly happy to do anything he could to get over opponents he respected, though he certainly never stopped being a bully to the easiest targets (Blue Meanie, Melina and The Miz could attest to that).

What happened between JBL and Miz then? I heard that Benoit once made Miz do 1,000 squats for being disrespectful... Any idea if the Miz has grown up etc and that is why he has gone from joke to main event?

JoshSansom wrote:What happened between JBL and Miz then? I heard that Benoit once made Miz do 1,000 squats for being disrespectful... Any idea if the Miz has grown up etc and that is why he has gone from joke to main event?

JBL treated him like dirt. At one point he forced Miz to change in the hallway, claiming that Miz didn't deserve to change in the dressing room. I'm sure there were many worse things than that though.

I think Miz did show a degree of immaturity when he was first with the company, but he was mainly being punished because he came from a reality TV background and was seen as an outsider.

His progress has come down to improving as a performer, living and breathing the business and maturing as a person. I'm sure JBL takes a lot of credit for it.

I remember seeing a Hogans Knows Best a few years ago that showed Big Show and Cena were in the ring together practising some spots

Don't forget around late 08 in Germany JBL decided to make Joey Styles the target of the night until Styles knocked him out, JBL on RAW with a legit black eye was brilliant

Couple of questions here if you dont mind answering, apologies if they have been mentioned in previous articles.

1) Whats the rule with ROH and TNA a few guys seem to be able to appear in both and its accepted. Is it because ROH is not on TV so they are not seen as a threat?
2) I heard Suicide was Christopher Daniels but now he is in TNA who is playing Suicide or is it still him?
3) I have been watching some CM punk stuff on youtube but he dosnt seem to do his old moves anymore like when he was in ROH is there a reason for this? do the wwe think there too risky or non PG? i seen him do a pedigree of the top rope i think it was called a pepsi plunge plus some other quality moves.

Cheers

cheers Josh

I dont get the move routines tho, u get a guy who i guess u r paying loads of money too and u say ur great we love u etc etc then say but u cant do any of ur moves! dosnt seem to make sense.

Do u know what the pepsi tattoo is about? does he love pepsi that much?

Andthen1 wrote:cheers Josh

I dont get the move routines tho, u get a guy who i guess u r paying loads of money too and u say ur great we love u etc etc then say but u cant do any of ur moves! dosnt seem to make sense.

Do u know what the pepsi tattoo is about? does he love pepsi that much?

Not sure about the moves tbh - as Punk is Straightedge he drinks Pepsi. Apparently he had friends getting beer tattoos so he got a Pepsi one!

A point on suicide, he has been played by kaz, daniels and kiyoshi, but wikipedia isn't hugely clear on when each did it. It seems to have gone kaz-daniels-kiyoshi-daniels

how does a guy the size of styles knock out a 6ft+ heavyweight in jbl??

on the wrestlers court subject, hardy's punishment is extremely harsh. i was expecting to read hardy was disrespectful to kane and refused to give up the seat. but what hardy actually did was act like a respectful man after being given a bad tip. very suprised he got punished for what was a nothing incident

Is it true the cheap rip off of Sin Cara in TNA is Amazing Red?

yeh it is pb sangriento is amazing red in a mask

Poor stuff. Red is amazing but had to change his moveset to make it beleivable. Sangriento just looked poor. His finisher was pretty sweet though.

You don't know how well put together Styles may actually be or how much of a glass jaw JBL might have, fair play to him, same can be said for Jericho teaching Goldberg a lesson

Just to add to the answer about CM Punk not using the Pepsi Plunge in WWE, there's also the point to consider that it is a 'flashier' version of Triple H's patented finishing move so there's no way WWE would allow him to 'overshadow' one of their major stars. Same way you won't see anyone coming into WWE and using a top rope Tombstone as their finisher - if you ignore the ban on piledrivers that is

this might answer a couple of questions about jbl and him 'bullying' miz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S7EpdURfYY&feature=related

Mr Tart

2 questions

1) we often hear about new stars being trained up by the stars of yesteryear e.g. its well known Regal trained Danielson. Whom has the best track record for training up main-event level wrestlers?

2) when did it become a heel trait to (when in the ring) choose an area of the body and specifically work on that region for the rest of the match?

Which wrestler was most unlike their character?

ie which heel was actually a really nice guy and vice versa

1) Verne Gagne instantly springs to mind, Harley Race is the guy who all the guys from the 70s 80s and 90s seem to send their kids to aswell, the Dudley's have got a lot of talent onto TV quite quick and Stu Hart cant be overlooked

just watched the dx v rated rko at nyr where hhh gets injured.. what was the planned ending? orton is 'busted open' was this legit?

Cheers for the answers guys. Couple more questions :-

1) Y2D2 i get waht our saying about Punk wouldnt be allowd to use the pedigree but dosnt Chyna use the Pedigree? was she allowed cause she was dating HHH? i think she still uses it now and the TNA commentators even said pedigree.

2) Is chyna a man or a woman?

Cheers

"I dont get the move routines tho, u get a guy who i guess u r paying loads of money too and u say ur great we love u etc etc then say but u cant do any of ur moves! dosnt seem to make sense."

- It's because WWE's policy is to get over the wrestlers, not the moves. Each wrestler has three or four signature moves that are part of their identity, but other than that the company does not like to make a big deal out of wrestling holds. It's why, if you listen to the commentators on TV, so little emphasis is put on the holds outside of signature moves. Joey Styles struggled on commentary in WWE for this very reason, as did Jim Ross initially; both had made their names partly because of an intricate knowledge of wrestling holds.

To be fair to WWE, another reason is the preservation of the wrestlers' bodies. The less high-risk stuff a wrestler does in the ring, the less wear and tear on the body, the fewer injuries, the longer his career (though requiring them to have ridiculously muscular physiques negates this somewhat).

"we often hear about new stars being trained up by the stars of yesteryear e.g. its well known Regal trained Danielson. Whom has the best track record for training up main-event level wrestlers?"

- I couldn't say for sure, I'm not an expert at this, but Verne Gagne is a great shout - he trained something like six world champions, including Ric Flair, Bob Backlund and Ricky Steamboat. The Hart family deserves a mention though. Many famous wrestlers were trained in the Dungeon.

"when did it become a heel trait to (when in the ring) choose an area of the body and specifically work on that region for the rest of the match?"

- As far as I know, it's always been the case, for as long as wrestling matches have been a work. It's wrestling psychology 101, one of the most basic storytelling rules in wrestling. Did you know though that in the US the heel always works on the left side of the body? Whereas in Mexico they work the right side.

"Which wrestler was most unlike their character?"

- That's pretty impossible to answer! Dusty Rhodes springs to mind for me; in his mid 80s heyday he was presented as the blue collar man of the people in the NWA, and they loved him for it. In reality he was travelling everywhere on private jets, wearing the most expensive clothes and watches, and eating in the finest restaurants. Rhodes blew through so much money that he helped bankrupt Jim Crockett Promotions.

Many people who only know Dusty from his legend and his WWF polka dot stint would probably be surprised at just how much of a politician he was in the NWA. His backstage scheming and blatant self-promotion were a million miles from the loveable cuddly babyface most of us remember.

"just watched the dx v rated rko at nyr where hhh gets injured.. what was the planned ending? orton is 'busted open' was this legit?"

I'm sorry, I don't really know the answer to either question! I remember getting a feeling that WWE was booking that entire angle on the fly, especially after Hunter's injury when it became Cena & Michaels vs Rated RKO. The original plan for Wrestlemania was, I believe, a HHH-Cena rematch from the year before; this was changed to Michaels-Cena after the injury. I think Rated RKO's role was simply to be agitating heels, a common rival for the two babyfaces in the WM main event. What didn't make sense, and what we'll never know, was how Michaels fitted into the original plans. WWE had three faces and only two heels in the angle. Was Michaels going to face Orton or Edge in a singles match at WM? Was Cena going to come between DX?

I'd have to know the answer to that before hazarding a guess as to the original plan for the title match. Why put the straps on DX if they're about to go off in different storyline directions? Or maybe the tag belts would have been a major factor in some kind of DX-Cena angle. I recall at the time it was seen as something of a blessing in disguise that injury prevented a potential muddying of the waters.

I don't know if Orton bled hardway, to be honest. The best way to tell is this: If the cut appeared to be in his hairline, he almost certainly bladed. If it was anywhere else, it was probably a legit cut.

"i get waht our saying about Punk wouldnt be allowd to use the pedigree but dosnt Chyna use the Pedigree? was she allowed cause she was dating HHH? i think she still uses it now and the TNA commentators even said pedigree."

- Yes, she was allowed to use it because it fitted her character, in that she "learnt from the master". Nobody else would have been allowed to use the pedigree as a signature move, but Chyna was part of Triple H's act so it was different with her.

The reason she can use it now is because she's not under contract to WWE! They can't ban wrestlers from performing moves outside the promotion. TNA probably encouraged it, as they do anything that could possibly be construed as a dig at WWE (or a tribute to them, however way you look at it...).

"Is chyna a man or a woman?"

- You know you would, you dirty little swine.

1) Chyna was allowed to use it due to her onscreen connection to Triple H

2) Chyna is and always has been female

In regards to using other peoples finishing moves:
It can be frowned upon to do it if it’s not asked for beforehand.
Recent examples such as McCool nicking AJ’s finisher, this created uproar within the IWC even though AJ was cool with it as he himself was the original creator of the move and more recently with Kurt Angle tweeting about Orton using his Angle Slam and in response starts using the RKO in TNA.

What are the following people like backstage? :

Booker T?

Del Rio? Does anyone know anything about him backstage yet?

What about Vickie Guerrero?

Cheers Davieswasacrippledtart :-

I probably would to be fair!! just to see that "magic bean" up close and personal lol

Slightly controversial question here

If you was in charge of TNA / WWE who would you listen to more the IWC or the fans who i would guess out way the IWC fans and who are the ones who buy the tikects and the majority of the cena shirts and merchandise etc.

Andthen1 wrote:Cheers Davieswasacrippledtart :-

I probably would to be fair!! just to see that "magic bean" up close and personal lol

Slightly controversial question here

If you was in charge of TNA / WWE who would you listen to more the IWC or the fans who i would guess out way the IWC fans and who are the ones who buy the tikects and the majority of the cena shirts and merchandise etc.

Blooming large bean

Del Rio has recently been described as a 'master politician' in his short time in the WWE

From what I've read Vickie is well liked and well respected backstage due to how she handled the death of Eddie and her desire to become a real bread winner and actually work fork her cash

I believe that Vickie is respected for how quickly she has grasped the industry as well. For someone with no formal wrestling background she went in and very quickly became very adept at drawing heat from the audience.

I can see why she would be respected - the WWE would have been likely to have provided her with a backstage role for life kind of thing due to Eddie's presence in the company, but she took the tough decision and appears most weeks on the show, even being involved in some unflattering angles (and costumes) as part of it.

Booker is popular backstage, he's considered a really funny guy. He's also seen as very laid back, which has worked against him in the past - back in his early WWE days it was considered that he just didn't have the hunger and desire to be the best he possibly could be. He was happy to coast along being popular with the boys.

Del Rio definitely had a few issues settling in. He was seen as having a big ego and wasn't popular.

Andthen1, the aim obviously has to be to appeal to as many people as possible. I believe that a strong product would appeal to the masses as well as the IWC. It's worth mentioning that often the most successful periods where wrestling entered the mainstream are also the periods the IWC looks back at with the most fondness. I wouldn't concern myself with pandering to either; instead I would just put on the best product I possibly could.

Is HHH a dead cert to take over after Vince or are there other big names in contention?

Ché Guerrero wrote: Is HHH a dead cert to take over after Vince or are there other big names in contention?

HHH already controls many of the aspects of talent acquisition and while he is with Steph he will be a very large player in the WWE future. Personally with my business background I would be amazed if one single person took over Vince's role. More likely two or three VP's... HHH would probably be the figurehead though.

JoshSansom wrote:

Ché Guerrero wrote: Is HHH a dead cert to take over after Vince or are there other big names in contention?

HHH already controls many of the aspects of talent acquisition and while he is with Steph he will be a very large player in the WWE future. Personally with my business background I would be amazed if one single person took over Vince's role. More likely two or three VP's... HHH would probably be the figurehead though.

You don't need business sense to realise that

bretmeharty wrote:You don't need business sense to realise that

Why? Vince has been able to run a business model very successfully around a single person concept. It can work, it is just not the way that modern businesses tend to operate as you would usually have a strategic figurehead at the top with operational VP's beneath them.

It is conceivable that HHH would take on a similar role to Vince's at the moment but I don't think it is likely.

In fact the most likely route is that Vince remains CEO of the WWE Group until he dies with each sub-element (WWE, merch, films etc) having a separate VP in charge who would report to Vince as CEO and combined COO. The alternative model would involve him appointing a COO at present to manage the amount of tasks he has, but I don't see him doing that due to his controlling and hard working attitude to running his company.

Remember the thread is for as near as factual answers as possible and less opinion based, I'm sure thats what Davies had in mind.

Good point gaffer - sorry for the diversion.

No problem mate, for what its worth I agree with most of your points its just when its not fact it can go of into a debate which goes against what this particular thread is for

Can anyone explain to me what the Hart dungeon was all about and what it had in store for training wrestlers? That's about all i know lol.

Who in the WWE, past or present had the biggest personal issues backstage? Don't know very much about the backstage stuff so a few examples would be greatly appreciated!

It’s often been rumoured at Vince having ‘indiscretions’ with not only divas but on occasion a wrestler or too based upon his obsession with pushing the weight lifter style over the more technically gifted wrestler. Is there any substance behind these rumours on both the divas and wrestlers?

AberdeenSteve wrote:Who in the WWE, past or present had the biggest personal issues backstage? Don't know very much about the backstage stuff so a few examples would be greatly appreciated!

There are loads.

The Rock and Shawn Michaels arent the best of friends. HBK tried stopping The Rocks push and i dont think they ever patched things up.

Batista and Booker T had a legitimate fight backstage, which i believe Booker won.

CM Punk got a ton of heat when he was World Champion. Apparantly he was told to dress better and he snapped back saying that Cena doesnt dress smart so why should he. Consequently he lost the title in 2 minutes to Taker at the following PPV.

Jim Cornette slapped Santino when in OVW. Santino didnt sell the Boogeymans gimmick and Cornette went ape.

Joey Styles and JBL. Joey chinned JBL once!

Scott Steiner and Diamond Dallas Page. Steiner handed DDP a beating.

Brock Lesnar took down Mr Perfect on the plane ride from hell after being goaded into a fight.

Rene Dupree and Bob Holly. During a house show match Holly gave some stiff shots to Dupree with a chair which Dupree took exception to. To get back at Holly, Dupree got a parking ticket using Holly's rental car in a different state and then made Holly fly out to deal with it. Holly, a-hole that he is, took it out on Dupree in the ring. Dupree left the ring but there was more action backstage. Holly was fined, but should've been fired. Thanks to Dupree's lack of popularity, Holly kept his job.

Just a few examples...

JamesLincs wrote:just watched the dx v rated rko at nyr where hhh gets injured.. what was the planned ending? orton is 'busted open' was this legit?

It was noticed during the match that after HHH blew his quad Orton ran into the ring with a chair and ran back out without using it again, I later saw an interview with Orton where he said he was origionally suposed to hit HHH with the chair but refused to hit an injured man. This leads me to belive that if Orton had hit HHH with the chair in front of the ref (who Im sure must have been concious at the time as it was him who HBK hit to rescue the match) it would have caused a DQ for Rated-RKO and the match would have continued with the Pedigree/Elbow Drop on the table spot as before, so all in all the only difference was that HBK caused the DQ as opposed to Orton

I have 2 questions, and my apologies if these have been asked before.

1. What are some of the harshest punishments to come out of Wrester's Court?

2. I'm not entirely sure of the universally known name of this story, but what exactly happened on 'that flight'?

what happened on the flight from Hell?”
- A lot of people drank way too much
- Brock Lesnar and Curt Hennig had an amateur wrestling match 30,000 feet up in the sky, worryingly close to an emergency exit.
- Ric flair walked around naked
- Goldust publicly serenaded his embarrassed ex wife Terri
- X-Pac chopped off Michael Hayes’ ponytail
- Steve Austin tried to calm it all down but was ignored

That is what i found off the old topic on 606 written by Crippledtart, there was a topic somewhere which explained it in greater detail but that's all i could find for now.

I'd have absolutely loved to be on that flight, everytime I read about it something else happened

Anything else to add to it Gaffer?