Ask the Tart: Archive 1

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Thread archived from https://www.606v2.com/t2445-ask-the-tart - Kiwireddevil

CrippledTart wrote:
By popular demand (Miky), here is a v2 verson of my 606 thread "Ask Me Ref".

As stated on the 606 version, this isn't just for people to ask me questions (I do not consider myself to be the biggest wrestling genius in the world contrary to the impression you get from some of my posts!), it's for people to ask questions and ANYONE who knows the answer to provide it.

This is not an opinion thread, per se. It is for those random wrestling musings you may have had but never got the answer to.

So if there's anything you ever wondered about wrestling, and never knew who to ask, go for it.

Bobby Roode wrote:If Hogan and Bischoff could create their perfect wrestler, who or what would it be like?

Hero wrote:2. Austin.
He’s widely regarded as one of if not the greatest ‘star’ to grace the industry. Whilst Hogan & HHH are often derided by the IWC for using their influence and power backstage, Austin seems above derision. Firstly what abuse of politics has Austin been guilty of, and why does he not fall into the Hogan/HHH category in the eyes of the IWC?

Good question. Steve Austin definitely used his political clout at times, but it was when he thought something was bad for business. Triple H and Hogan have a tendency to bury wrestlers they see as a threat, whereas Austin to my knowledge never acted that way.

He was fiercely protective of his character, and a student of the industry who had a good idea of what was good and bad for business. He was also accused of being paranoid at times.

Austin refused to work programmes with Jeff Jarrett and Billy Gunn in the summer of 1999. Gunn because he didn't rate him, Jarrett because the two had personal heat over Jarrett criticising the "Austin 3:16" gimmick as blasphemous. There were rumours he wouldn't put over Triple H in 1999 as well, but these are believed to be unfounded (he did a job for him at No Mercy). He also refused to do the job in an unadvertised match with Brock Lesnar on Raw in 2002, arguing that it would be bad for business. Austin's logic was that, as the biggest name in the company, it would have more effect if Brock ran through others on his way to a big PPV showdown between the two, where he would be happy to put Brock over.

The business he did in 1998 and 1999 was phenomenal, and meant that he had no political challengers. However Triple H's ascendance led to tension, and Austin felt insecure in his spot as the top guy. This led to a drastic change around 2000, when he suddenly became harder to work with. Austin did not take well to Vince having a new favourite, and protected his territory any time he felt challenged. He did not last much longer as a full-time main eventer, mainly because of his condition but also largely because the situation had diminished his passion for wrestling.

Another key was Austin's character: He was the toughest guy in the room. He took on all kinds of numbers and usually won. This made incredible money but did not lend itself to putting others over. In fact the WWF didn't want him doing jobs to anyone when they could help it - even tainted ones - while so much money was rolling in. Austin's character was dominant, not just physically but also in that he took up everyone's attention. This was a big plus for the WWF in his peak run, but in his latter years it became a hindrance. As the sheriff, when he was for all intents and purposes retired, he undercut every wrestler he came into contact with. And without great feuds to sink his teeth into, his promos suffered, he relied more on the tired beer drinking routine, and became something of a parody.

Austin didn't boost an awful lot of careers, but it wasn't with malice. Therein lies the difference between him and Triple H or Hogan. For the most part, he did what he thought was right for business.

Michael Hayes was involved in an physical incident with Bradshaw after heavily drinking, allegedly punching him. in response to it xpac cut his hair.

Scott Hall and Curt Henning had been having fun spraying others with shaving cream... untill the intoxicated Hall passed out.

A couple I’ve missed:

“Can anyone explain to me what the Hart dungeon was all about and what it had in store for training wrestlers? That's about all i know lol.”

- The Hart dungeon was just a small training room with weights and an old mat on the floor, in the basement of Hart House. Its notoriety comes from the hundreds of hopefuls who were tortured in that room by Stu Hart, all in the name of wanting to be wrestlers. Aspiring wrestlers would turn up at Hart House desperate to impress Stu and get trained by him. He would then take them down to the dungeon and test just how much they wanted it, locking them in holds that were unimaginably painful. Usually, the holds felt like they would break a limb any second, or pop the eyeballs out; it would be impossible to escape the hold or the pain. People who’d dreamed for years of becoming a wrestler would leave the dungeon never wanting to think about wrestling ever again. Those who went back for more would gradually earn Stu’s respect, and possibly the chance to be trained to wrestle by him. Why did they do it? Wrestlers who were trained by the Harts were instantly respected throughout the business. They had proved themselves to be dedicated, driven and very tough.

“It’s often been rumoured at Vince having ‘indiscretions’ with not only divas but on occasion a wrestler or too based upon his obsession with pushing the weight lifter style over the more technically gifted wrestler. Is there any substance behind these rumours on both the divas and wrestlers?”

- There is no evidence of either, and I doubt there ever will be. Vince McMahon is a very powerful man with a lot of money and a lot of people willing to protect him; it’s hard to imagine any case against him getting past the stage of “accusation”. He has certainly been accused in the past: Rita Chatterton, a former referee, accused him of Cuddle but the case never went to court. Kevin Wacholz, who wrestled as Nailz, accused him of sexual harassment, but again it never went to court.

I’d imagine Vince McMahon has got up to a few dodgy shenanigans in the past thirty years. He’s lived a lifestyle of sex, drugs, power and unaccountability. It’s simply impossible to say for sure what he has and hasn’t done in private. However, there are two things I’d like to point out:

1) It is an open secret backstage that the divas can get ahead in their careers if they impress the right people. Do you really think Vince McMahon is the kind of boss who wouldn’t try it on with an attractive young female employee? Given that most are employed based on their looks, I find it difficult to imagine Vince and others can resist the temptation to try their luck. In the hypothetical scenario that Vince, or one of his inner circle, came on to a female employee, what do you think the repercussions would be for saying either yes or no?

2) Regarding male employees, I point to one man: Shawn Michaels. Vince’s loyalty to him has always puzzled me. As good a performer as Michaels was, Vince went above and beyond the call of duty to stand by him, time and time again, to the extent of repeatedly endangering relations with the rest of the locker room. It was almost like he was besotted with Michaels. Given Vince’s obvious love affair with the male physical form (eg his obsession with large muscles), is it really unthinkable that he doesn’t find men attractive? And is there any wrestler who has ever fitted the gay stereotype more than Shawn Michaels did in the 90s?

Why didn't the major stars of WCW join the WWE for the Invasion storyline of 2001? It could have been excellent had it not just decended into WWF good guys against WWF bad guys + Booker T and a few others to make up the numbers.

JoshSansom wrote:Why didn't the major stars of WCW join the WWE for the Invasion storyline of 2001? It could have been excellent had it not just decended into WWF good guys against WWF bad guys + Booker T and a few others to make up the numbers.

Most of the top guys from WCW either didn't need to involve themselves in it, they could just sit on their WCW contract that WWE had to take over or/and some of the top guys just simply didn't trust Vince and WWE.

You go from WCW where the guys had creative control written in some of their contracts to WWE where they wouldn't get much if any.

JoshSansom wrote:Why didn't the major stars of WCW join the WWE for the Invasion storyline of 2001? It could have been excellent had it not just decended into WWF good guys against WWF bad guys + Booker T and a few others to make up the numbers.

Money. The WWF had a very strict salary heirachy with incentive-based pay, whereas the top WCW wrestlers had pretty much iron clad contracts with guaranteed salaries. Even after the company's demise, the salaries had to be paid by AOL/Time Warner for the remainder of their contracts. Nash, Goldberg and Flair could just go and sit at home while the money rolled in, hence why it took Goldberg for example two years to join WWE.

Vince McMahon didn't want to upset his locker room by taking over those contracts (only Austin, Rock, Undertaker and Triple H would have been earning comparable money at the time), so he signed only wrestlers who came cheap. He did negotiate with a few of the wrestlers to try and get them to sign a new WWF contract based on a downside guarantee and incentives, but to little avail. Wrestlers knew they could sit out their WCW deal, and then come in as a hot commodity when the time was right.

The big mistake, I feel, was in not delaying the invasion storyline until a few of those contracts had expired. Within a year of the buyout, Vince had Flair, Hogan, Hall, Nash and Bischoff under WWF contract. Imagine the impact of those five invading. The flipside to this is that maybe Vince felt the fans would forget about WCW if he didn't go with the invasion angle quickly.

I think it was reasonable enough not to want to upset the salary structure of what was a pretty happy locker room at that time (after years of unrest). Imagine the reaction of Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho and others who had worked their way into a good position on the card, only for Kevin Nash to walk in earning three or four times as much money.

The only problem is that they totally blew the biggest potential angle in wrestling by going ahead with the invasion when their only main event acquisitions were Booker and DDP. I think it would have made much more impact (and money) if Vince had sat on that particular pot of gold until enough big names were under his employ.

That's interesting then cripps, I remember reading reports years ago from so say credible websites that WWE had to take over the contracts of the talent which was one of the reasons WWE bought it at a dirt cheap price?

No, the reason they bought it so cheap was that it wasn't worth much once the TV shows were cancelled. The $5m they spent was basically just for the brand name (which it soon became clear was worthless) and the tape library, which to be fair has made them a lot of money.

If WWE had owned the contracts they definitely would have used the wrestlers! The "Invasion" wrestlers were all under WWF contract having terminated their deals with Time Warner.

Ok so fair do's

Why oh why was Ron Simmons given a run with the WCW title? was it just cos is was black? (I mean absolutely no offence with this statement and im not trying to be funny I just never thought he was all that talented)

Lex-Express wrote:Why oh why was Ron Simmons given a run with the WCW title? was it just cos is was black? (I mean absolutely no offence with this statement and im not trying to be funny I just never thought he was all that talented)

Great question, and the answer is "Sort of"!

In 1992, Bill Watts was named Vice President of WCW. Watts was a true wrestling traditionalist; he liked a mat-based style (to the extent that he banned top rope moves), insisted on wrestlers maintaining kayfabe outside the ring (babyfaces and heels weren't allowed to be seen together) and liked to push wrestlers with genuine athletic backgrounds.

Having been out of the business for five years, there was a great deal of anticipation around the return of Watts, who was seen as one of the top bookers of his day. He was considered WCW's saviour, following the mostly-disastrous reigns of Jim Herd and K. Allen Frye, two men who knew very little about the industry.

Watts had enjoyed his greatest success in Mid South Wrestling in the early-to-mid 80s, where he revolved the company around a top black babyface in Junkyard Dog. JYD was a huge draw in the southern territory, which had a large black audience.

Ron Simmons, who had been in the upper midcard of WCW for the previous couple of years, fitted Watts' image of what a champion should be. He was black, he had a legitimate sporting background in college American football, and he was tough. Watts thought that he could recreate the same magic he'd experienced with JYD.

In a great angle in the summer of 1992, Sting was due to face the unstoppable champion Vader, only to be attacked by a debuting Jake Roberts. That left no number one contender. Simmons' name was drawn out of a list of contenders, and he got the shot at Vader, and won the belt. The huge crowd pop that greeted his title victory, as well as the debut of the hot free agent Roberts, suggested that improving fortunes were ahead for WCW.

Unfortunately, one thing Simmons was lacking was JYD's charisma. Whilst not particularly mobile in the ring (though much more than in his later career!), JYD could talk and oozed charisma. Simmons eventually dropped the strap back to Vader, and never reached main event status again in either WCW or the WWF. Roberts, meanwhile, lasted only a few months before a falling out with Watts led to his departure.

Watts was considered to be stuck in the past, and his tenure was a flop. He'd failed to adapt to the corporate environment, or to changes in the business. The fact that his biggest decision in WCW was to try and recreate something that had brought him success almost a decade previously added to this perception.

Ironically, Bill Watts was fired by WCW in 1993 for racist comments he'd made in an interview a couple of years before getting the job. By that stage the writing was on the wall already, and it merely quickened his departure.

What were the reasons behind Brock Lesnar's departure from the WWE?

I am sure that someone else can go into more details Steve, but I believe that Brock was sick of the travel schedule and wanted to try an NFL career while he still could.

His departure was quite bitter though given that he had a no-compete clause until 2010 but then wanted to go to Japan to wrestle. As such I am not sure what his current relationship is with WWE management in terms of a return.

Also, any return would probably only be short term because: a) the travel schedule hasn't changed b) he is paid way more than any WWE superstar atm.

Is Jonathan Coachman still with the WWE?

steveo1986 wrote:Is Jonathan Coachman still with the WWE?

No, wikipedia has him working for ESPN having left WWE about three years ago.

Is it true regarding Santino having a drinking problem?
I seem to recall Jim Cornette lambasting him on a radio interview after Santino challenged him him to a match (even though Cornette was working for a rival fed) and he replied he didn't need to wrestle a jobber with a drinking issue.

I'm not aware of Santino having a drinking problem but Cornette may have been referring to his DUI (drink driving) charge around 2008???

Bear in mind that Jim Cornette might be the bitchiest man in wrestling; he'll use just about any insult whether it makes sense or not.

Why did JR go through a phase of calling The Undertaker “Big Booger Red”?

Crips what do you know about the alledged sexual assualts involving WWF officials in the 80's? I think Pat Paterson was involved & subsequently released from the company as a result.

I saw something on you tube involving a split screen debate/argument between Vince & Bruno Sammartino on Larry King. Sammartino seem to refer to this incident....

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:I'm not aware of Santino having a drinking problem but Cornette may have been referring to his DUI (drink driving) charge around 2008???

Bear in mind that Jim Cornette might be the bitchiest man in wrestling; he'll use just about any insult whether it makes sense or not.

I think its quite a well known fact that Cornette doesnt like Santino. Back in OVW, Santino failed to sell the Boogeymans gimmick in a match and when they got backstage Cornette slapped Santino for it. I've heard a few stories about these two and how Cornette doesnt like him.

Electric Demon wrote:Why did JR go through a phase of calling The Undertaker “Big Booger Red”?

I don't know! I vaguely remember this. Obviously Big Red would have made sense, given he had his natural hair colour at the time, but I don't know what Booger referred to. I don't recall him blowing his nose a lot or anything like that.

I just looked up "Booger" on Wikipedia, and it is apparently a ghost or hobgoblin that frightens children, which would make sense. It's a southern word, which also makes sense as Taker and Ross are both from the south.

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:

Electric Demon wrote:Why did JR go through a phase of calling The Undertaker “Big Booger Red”?

I don't know! I vaguely remember this. Obviously Big Red would have made sense, given he had his natural hair colour at the time, but I don't know what Booger referred to. I don't recall him blowing his nose a lot or anything like that.

I just looked up "Booger" on Wikipedia, and it is apparently a ghost or hobgoblin that frightens children, which would make sense. It's a southern word, which also makes sense as Taker and Ross are both from the south.

I seem to remember The King asking JR why he always called him "Booger Red" - and JR answered witrh something like "Because he is a Booger Red"

Brady12 wrote:Crips what do you know about the alledged sexual assualts involving WWF officials in the 80's? I think Pat Paterson was involved & subsequently released from the company as a result.

I saw something on you tube involving a split screen debate/argument between Vince & Bruno Sammartino on Larry King. Sammartino seem to refer to this incident....

The scandal was in early 1992 I think. Two gay WWF employees, Mel Phillips and Terry Garvin, were accused of sexually assaulting young males who wanted to be wrestlers. Patterson, as the most prominent gay man in the WWF, was removed from the company temporarily while the heat died down. I can't remember if he was accused of anything, but he was definitely not in the same boat as Phillips or Garvin (who never worked for the company again). Also around this time, Vince McMahon was accused of raping a former female referee. At the same time, WWF was coming under more and more pressure regarding steroid use, following the 1991 arrest of Dr George Zahorian for illegal distribution of steroids to wrestlers.

I cannot recommend enough a book called "Sex, Lies and Headlocks". It's one of the best wrestling books ever written, and goes into great depth on the murky practises of Vince McMahon and the WWF in the 80s and 90s. All of this scandal is covered in the book.

Bruno's role was as a disgruntled former wrestler who was disgusted with what the WWF had become. In the late 80s he quit the company due to the promotional direction Vince was taking, and the rampant drug use backstage. Bruno was concerned about the negative effect of Vince McMahon's influence on the industry, and during the scandal he acted as a dissenting voice who wanted to see the industry cleaned up. I also recall from the book that one of the alleged victims of the abuse was on that same show, and was expected to hammer another nail in the WWF's coffin, only to change his story live on air.

Like I said, buy the book, it is probably less than a tenner on Amazon and is one of the most enlightening things a wrestling fan could ever read.

Is it true that the 1992 SummerSlam from London was actually taped on the Saturday evening, and then broadcast as live in America on the Sunday night? Was the weather used as a reason?

Miz NG wrote:Is it true that the 1992 SummerSlam from London was actually taped on the Saturday evening, and then broadcast as live in America on the Sunday night? Was the weather used as a reason?

I always presumed the main reason was the time difference. Having said that, they could have taped it on the Sunday night because America is a few hours behind us. I guess taping it on the Saturday just gave them an extra day to edit it down to a three-hour PPV (If I remember rightly, a number of matches were cut when the event aired on Sky Sports, which also leads me to wonder whether they wanted that extra day to edit. I'm not sure though whether those matches aired in the States).

It probably was also more convenient here because of public transport etc, and because - quaint as it sounds - back in 1992 there were still strict laws on Sunday trading. I'm not sure if that would have affected the decision or not.

Thanks Crips will be getting that book for holiday Reading this Summer I think

Any idea what the current status/whereabouts of The Dynamite Kid Tom Billington? Last I heard he was in a wheel chair ata care home on the outskirts of Manchester?

I can't help much there Brady, I didn't even hear about the care home - last I knew he was living with his new wife and her son. Anyone else got more information?

I’ve just been having an internet scour and can’t find anything on it unfortunately.
Do you know if any of his old colleagues etc ever keep in touch with him?

On a similar point, is the Tom Billington's autobiography worth a read? He seems to have had an interesting life, but what I have read about him paints him to be very bitter.

Hero wrote:I’ve just been having an internet scour and can’t find anything on it unfortunately.
Do you know if any of his old colleagues etc ever keep in touch with him?

I strongly doubt it. He's a very messed up, bitter man, and a lot of that is because he feels so let down by his ex colleagues. He made enemies of all the really close friends he had.

Enforcer wrote:On a similar point, is the Tom Billington's autobiography worth a read? He seems to have had an interesting life, but what I have read about him paints him to be very bitter.

It's a great book, really interesting, but quite depressing at the same time. It's amazing how much of a nasty, mean-spirited human being he comes across as. I found myself feeling sorry for him at times, only to be snapped out of it by a spiteful comment or anecdote. He's a deeply unpleasant man, a real bully with violent tendencies, but also a fascinating character.

Dynamite Kid today, very sad viewing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVtKGlL0-ls

Dynamite Kid today, very sad viewing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVtKGlL0-ls

Hi I am new on the site but a massive wrestling fan. I was re watching the 1993 royal rumble and just wandered if you new the ending was planned. It just looked so fake and silly when savage gets elimnated, almost like they were improvising

aemili2 wrote:Hi I am new on the site but a massive wrestling fan. I was re watching the 1993 royal rumble and just wandered if you new the ending was planned. It just looked so fake and silly when savage gets elimnated, almost like they were improvising

Are you kidding? Of course it was planned - I agree it was stupid pin falls don't count in Royal Rumbles

In terms of crafting matches are these planned beforehand or done on the cuff in the ring? I see sometimes that the wrestlers seem to have little chats during pause situations like headlocks and tie ups. Would the end be planned and the rest improvised?

Also, would there be more planning involved with high risk matches / ones with more participants like Elimination Chamber or TLC.

Any insights would be much appreciated

UpsideDownFace is now on 606V2!!!!! Loving the site guys. Way better than 606 LOL. Great work by everyone. ANYWAY!!!!

Couple of questions that I hope you can answer.

1) I was quite suprised to read that Patterson is gay. Which other wrestlers, past and present, are known to be gay? Also, do you feel think that could be a factor in them not getting far in the company?

2) I'm sure this has been asked and answered a thousand times, so I apologize in advance. What was the backstage reaction to the Montreal Screwjob and who actually knew it was going to happen?

Upside down face

I read shawn michaels book last nite and he said, he, HHH, vince and gerald briscoe made the idea off doing a swerve finish but he was told to deny all knowledge off it by vince who wanted to take all the heat for it. Earl hefner the ref was told an hour so before the match along with his brother Dave who was a booker i think. He had got the car ready for straight after to take earl away. Shawn Michaels says that Vince said before it even happened that he would let Brett smack him after it cause he deserved it.

Andthen1 wrote:Shawn Michaels says that Vince said before it even happened that he would let Brett smack him after it cause he deserved it.

Take this with a pinch of salt. I'm sure Vince would love people to think he let Bret punch him. Shawn Michaels is a company man and a Vince loyalist through and through; he probably believes this story himself by now. It's classic WWE propaganda.

JoshSansom wrote:In terms of crafting matches are these planned beforehand or done on the cuff in the ring? I see sometimes that the wrestlers seem to have little chats during pause situations like headlocks and tie ups. Would the end be planned and the rest improvised?

Also, would there be more planning involved with high risk matches / ones with more participants like Elimination Chamber or TLC.

Any insights would be much appreciated

It depends very much on the match. The general rule for TV and PPV matches is that the wrestlers are told how long they've got, who is winning, the finish, and any specific spots in the match. I don't mean spots as in big bumps necessarily, it could be something as simple as a miscommunication between tag partners.

The rest they can usually work out in the ring. When they are speaking to each other, it's a case of a wrestler calling the next series of moves. Traditionally the heel fulfils this role as they are on offense for the majority of the match, but if it's an experienced babyface against an inexperienced heel, the face may call the match.

You have to remember that most performers are in the ring 200 times a year, and many have years of experience. Once you've wrestled enough matches, you can quite easily ad-lib a match. They do it every night at house shows.

It does vary from match to match, and wrestler to wrestler, but in general if it's a big match there may be some rehearsal required. The Rumble is rehearsed, because it would be pretty impossible otherwise. A main event match would naturally be given more attention and forethought than an undercard match. It's very rare for wrestlers to rehearse an entire match though; this would mainly happen because one or more of the wrestlers are very inexperienced and there is concern they might screw up in the match. Undertaker and Nathan Jones vs Big Show and A-Train was set for WM19. They were so worried about Jones that the whole match was rehearsed at Taker's ranch, and Jones was removed from the WM card as a result, because the wrestlers just didn't have any confidence in him. Hulk Hogan vs Ultimate Warrior at WM6 was rehearsed because Warrior had never been in a match of such magnitude or length, and Hogan was concerned he wouldn't be able to carry him to a performance worthy of such hype.

There are also individuals who liked to plan their matches out intricately beforehand. Randy Savage and Diamond Dallas Page were two of the more famous examples. They would plan a match almost move for move with their opponent, and then remind them as the match progressed what was next. But this is unusual.

Cripps

Last couple of nights i been watching the Off The Record shows on you tube with Shawn, Brett and vince (not all on show at same time) and vince pretty much confirmed Brett tonked him one but he said briscoe had trod on his foot before hand and broken it and that why he went down like a tonne of bricks. Now thats classic propaganda haha

Pat Paterson is gay, Chris kanyon was gay, Orlando Jordan swings every which way they are the main ones that i know of

I heard a romour a couple of years back that Rick Steiner was gay and had been having extra maritals with a boy alot younger than him, Dunno if thats true or not tho

UpsideDownFace wrote:I was quite suprised to read that Patterson is gay. Which other wrestlers, past and present, are known to be gay? Also, do you feel think that could be a factor in them not getting far in the company?

There aren't many people in the history of the wrestling business who are/were known to be gay.

Patterson had a very good career, particularly during his tag team days with Ray Stevens. He was also of course the first Intercontinental champion, winning an imaginary tournament in 1979. After retiring, he became an influential part of Vince McMahon's inner circle, and at times was second in command of the whole company.

Chris Kanyon came out near the end of his career; he claimed that he'd been held back by WWE because of his sexuality, but given that he'd been a midcarder for his entire career it's difficult to see any substance in those claims.

Terry Garvin had a decent career in the territory days, although he did find himself playing a very stereotypical gay character at times.

The only other one I can think of is Orlando Jordan, who finds himself playing a very dignified role in TNA as an ambassador for LGBT people everywhere.

I would say that the business has traditionally always been quite homophobic, no doubt confusing the hell out of anyone who witnessed Liberace's cameo at the first Wrestlemania, but I've never heard of anyone refusing to work with a gay wrestler (though I'm sure it has happened). I think it's more a case of mild, indirect homophobia, eg using homophobic language in promos, rather than hostility and hatred towards individual gay wrestlers. In the same vein, the business has always been mildly racist but that hasn't stopped black people being pushed.

Ultimately, if a wrestling company thinks it can make money with someone, they don't care what that person's sexuality or race is; indeed they would probably be more likely to avoid lazy stereotypes if they think the wrestler had talent. How many times has The Rock's race been a factor in his character? And I'm sure far more people, if asked to name a gay wrestler, would answer Adrian Adonis, Gorgeous George or Billy and Chuck (all hetero) than Pat Patterson.

Andthen1 wrote:Cripps

Last couple of nights i been watching the Off The Record shows on you tube with Shawn, Brett and vince (not all on show at same time) and vince pretty much confirmed Brett tonked him one but he said briscoe had trod on his foot before hand and broken it and that why he went down like a tonne of bricks. Now thats classic propaganda haha

The story I've heard is that Bret knocked Vince unconscious and he fell awkwardly, breaking his ankle.

I think Vince considers that punch to be the greatest dent in his masculinity ever, hence the thousand excuses and stories he's come up with.

Just waiting for him to claim that he was actually headbutting Bret's fist...

Can I ask a more philosophical question that a definitive answer one Crip?

Where would wrestling be without Vince McMahon? Particularly, would it look anything like it does today (with massive arenas, global superstars, and a media juggernaut)?

Electric Demon wrote:Can I ask a more philosophical question that a definitive answer one Crip?

Where would wrestling be without Vince McMahon? Particularly, would it look anything like it does today (with massive arenas, global superstars, and a media juggernaut)?

Obviously, it's impossible to answer. My hunch is that someone would have eventually gone national; I don't think we'd still have the territories as they were pre-Vince. How that would have affected the presentation, who knows. The WWE is so stage-managed, and as you say, such a juggernaught. Vince McMahon has defined what wrestling is in 2011. Even WCW Nitro just wouldn't have existed in the same form without him.

I think someone would have expanded nationally, we'd still have the big arena shows (they were not a McMahon invention), but whether the production values, slick settings and global recognition would have been what they are now is probably highly debatable.

Cripps

I have read articles that Jerry jarrett has been slagging of TNA recently. But i thought he owned part of it with Jeff? whats the story behind this mate? Does he or jeff still own an of it?

Andthen1 wrote:Cripps

I have read articles that Jerry jarrett has been slagging of TNA recently. But i thought he owned part of it with Jeff? whats the story behind this mate? Does he or jeff still own an of it?

Jerry and Jeff Jarrett were the founders of TNA, with a financial backer I can't remember the name of. In the very early days, with the company losing money every week, the backer pulled out, and the Jarretts sold a majority stake to Panda Energy.

I think Jeff still has a small financial stake in the company, but I'm not sure about Jerry. Either way, he has no power and is not involved in the running of TNA. I guess he was perfectly in his right to criticise TNA; even if he does part-own the company, there's no reason he can't speak out about the direction of the product.

What is the average wrestler's salary? And what is the top wrestler's salary?

How much does a wrestler earn from merch sales?

Electric Demon wrote:What is the average wrestler's salary? And what is the top wrestler's salary?

How much does a wrestler earn from merch sales?

Hero published a list of salaries from a couple of years ago that had the top guys on about $2m. I would expect Cena to now be on $2 - 3m per year with a couple of % of merchandise revenue as well.

Average salary for a full time performer is probably around $500k per annum I would guess.

How does this compare to UFC? Well I wouldn't know about their averages, but Brock Lesnar is on about $5.5m per annum apparently.

Just on Adrian Adnois, is he the same guy who played Adrian Streets over here?