Ask the Tart: Archive 1

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Thread archived from https://www.606v2.com/t2445-ask-the-tart - Kiwireddevil

CrippledTart wrote:
By popular demand (Miky), here is a v2 verson of my 606 thread "Ask Me Ref".

As stated on the 606 version, this isn't just for people to ask me questions (I do not consider myself to be the biggest wrestling genius in the world contrary to the impression you get from some of my posts!), it's for people to ask questions and ANYONE who knows the answer to provide it.

This is not an opinion thread, per se. It is for those random wrestling musings you may have had but never got the answer to.

So if there's anything you ever wondered about wrestling, and never knew who to ask, go for it.

Bobby Roode wrote:If Hogan and Bischoff could create their perfect wrestler, who or what would it be like?

Hero wrote:2. Austin.
He’s widely regarded as one of if not the greatest ‘star’ to grace the industry. Whilst Hogan & HHH are often derided by the IWC for using their influence and power backstage, Austin seems above derision. Firstly what abuse of politics has Austin been guilty of, and why does he not fall into the Hogan/HHH category in the eyes of the IWC?

Good question. Steve Austin definitely used his political clout at times, but it was when he thought something was bad for business. Triple H and Hogan have a tendency to bury wrestlers they see as a threat, whereas Austin to my knowledge never acted that way.

He was fiercely protective of his character, and a student of the industry who had a good idea of what was good and bad for business. He was also accused of being paranoid at times.

Austin refused to work programmes with Jeff Jarrett and Billy Gunn in the summer of 1999. Gunn because he didn't rate him, Jarrett because the two had personal heat over Jarrett criticising the "Austin 3:16" gimmick as blasphemous. There were rumours he wouldn't put over Triple H in 1999 as well, but these are believed to be unfounded (he did a job for him at No Mercy). He also refused to do the job in an unadvertised match with Brock Lesnar on Raw in 2002, arguing that it would be bad for business. Austin's logic was that, as the biggest name in the company, it would have more effect if Brock ran through others on his way to a big PPV showdown between the two, where he would be happy to put Brock over.

The business he did in 1998 and 1999 was phenomenal, and meant that he had no political challengers. However Triple H's ascendance led to tension, and Austin felt insecure in his spot as the top guy. This led to a drastic change around 2000, when he suddenly became harder to work with. Austin did not take well to Vince having a new favourite, and protected his territory any time he felt challenged. He did not last much longer as a full-time main eventer, mainly because of his condition but also largely because the situation had diminished his passion for wrestling.

Another key was Austin's character: He was the toughest guy in the room. He took on all kinds of numbers and usually won. This made incredible money but did not lend itself to putting others over. In fact the WWF didn't want him doing jobs to anyone when they could help it - even tainted ones - while so much money was rolling in. Austin's character was dominant, not just physically but also in that he took up everyone's attention. This was a big plus for the WWF in his peak run, but in his latter years it became a hindrance. As the sheriff, when he was for all intents and purposes retired, he undercut every wrestler he came into contact with. And without great feuds to sink his teeth into, his promos suffered, he relied more on the tired beer drinking routine, and became something of a parody.

Austin didn't boost an awful lot of careers, but it wasn't with malice. Therein lies the difference between him and Triple H or Hogan. For the most part, he did what he thought was right for business.

I'm glad they don't use the whole generation thing to push people as I think a lot of the time it can hold them back, as they will ALWAYS be compared to their fathers/grandfathers. Obviously it still happens, but with a new name they can at least try and create their own legacy without it being as much as an issue.

What is bad is how dreadful the name Michael McGillicutty which is an awful name, and is never going to be a star name!

Mr Tart, was it the plan for undertaker to hurl mankind of the cell in that match. and also, was he supposed to go through the cell?

cheers

I'm pretty sure (having read Foley's biography and going from memory) that the cage wasn't supposed to give way when he went through it, I'm not sure but I think he was supposed to be choke-slammed onto one of the supports and Taker missed - everyone was legitimately concerned about Foley's well-being, and he was given a huge amount of time to get up and gather his senses and carry on.

However, he was supposed to go crashing through the announce table from the top of the cage - I think I remember reading that 'Taker was still trying to convince him not to do it on top of the cage!!

bloomin hell, for a guy the size of foley to be okay about falling from nearly 20 feet. takes balls! dunno why the question came to mind. just thought it was such a dangerous stunt, why would wwe even consider doing a spot like that

Foley's near insanity is kinda legendary when it comes to bumps, I think - he had a match in Japan that was a 'Dynamite barbed wire boards' or something similar, and I think he got burnt up a bit from that.

And, of course, there's the way he took regular bumps. Most wrestlers, when whipped into the ring steps, mysteriously tumble over and take the bump with their back. Foley took them on his knees for a long time, and he blames this in part for shortening his career!

Also, on the Michael McGillicutty thing:

a) do you think that this is a first gimmick for him and they may revert him back to being Joe Hennig if he is able to become a bit better so that he doesn't have too much pressure on him.

b) Is he any relation to Beulah McGillicutty?

A) well they have already acknowledged that he is third generation on WWE TV and that he is using his mothers name, its hardly a gimmick, if anything he is gimmickless

B) No!

Re Hennig, I think the WWE has presented him all wrong. Clearly they are reluctant to give him the Hennig name because they aren't sure he's got the ability to live up to it. In that case, they should either not mention that he's third generation, or just hold him back in developmental until he's ready. If you're going to put him on the main roster, have him work under a hood or something.

The name McGillicutty is no doubt an inside joke regarding Beulah. Who knows what the joke is, but it's a terrible wrestling name which could taint him for the rest of his career.

I think WWE has become really bad in recent years at protecting wrestlers. It seems to me that most wrestlers are in a far worse position a year after their debut than before they debut. This is partly because they are rushed to the main roster too soon, when they aren't ready, and their weaknesses exposed. But a lot of it is also because WWE gives them stupid names like Michael McGillicutty, portrays them as buffoons and puts them in a position where there weaknesses can only be exposed.

As a result, the son of Mr Perfect, a gimmick which writes itself, has been pretty much flushed down the toilet.

Sorry, this is not supposed to be an opinion thread! Although I do think all of the above is also a valid answer to the question.

Re Foley, I think there is no doubt both of his bumps were pre-planned. In his book, he admits that the first bump was planned. As for the second, the big giveaway (literally) to me is that the panel he was chokeslammed through appeared earlier on to be gimmicked. If you watch the first few minutes of the match, that same panel almost gives way under little pressure. It also just happens to be the one right above the centre of the ring.

I think the reasons he didn't admit to the second bump being choreographed was that a) he knew how much emotional strain his wrestling style was putting on his wife, and b) he wanted to absolve the company of any blame in case of serious injury (he even claimed in his book that the company was unaware he was going to take either bump, and the "out of character" appearance of Vince McMahon during the match would add weight to the company's claims that Foley's bumps were not in the script).

Many thanks for the update there Davies. I thought that after the three from Legacy that WWE would have a fairly set formula for next gen superstars. Whether there is something to do with Curt Hennig's death involved in not using that gimmick I am not too sure. I am surprised that even if they didn't want to use the name that they didn't go for a tacit nod like him using the perfectplex of something.

The only way they could work this now would be for him to cut some kind of promo saying he wanted to build his reputation before being described as a "Hennig" maybe gaining his first singles title (if he is ever going to get that far).

As for Foley I agree that it was planned - if not then they would not have used a through the ring bump at NWO 2000 against Hunter.

Also, I shouldn't divulge because this isn't an opinion thread but my opinion always was that they should have retired the HIAC after Foley stopped wrestling as it was a) so synonymous with him and b) unlikely to be surpassed as no-one else would have been able to match his crazy stunts.

Other HIAC matches now seem a bit tame / a let down in comparison to the first three... even Armageddon 2000 (back in the days of PPV's on Channel 4!) was a bit of a let down imo.

Is there any process to how these gimmick matches evolve / are created? I suppose each company has its own style gimmick matches that revolve around a set theme: entrapment, capture the belt etc.

There seems to be that logical progress from cage match to HIAC to elimination chamber... ladder match to TLC etc.

Do they build feuds around a set proviso when coming up with a new gimmick match or do they develop the feud and then fit a stipulation around it? The prime example would be TLC I (another stip that I think should have been retired after TLC II btw)... Dudleys had the tables, Hardys were masters of the ladder and E&C had the "con-chair-to"...?

cheers crips. wow! he deserves a position within wwe for life what he has sacrificed in that one match alone. 14 years on and it is still remembered like it was just yesterday

JamesLincs wrote:cheers crips. wow! he deserves a position within wwe for life what he has sacrificed in that one match alone. 14 years on and it is still remembered like it was just yesterday

That's one way to look at it. I don't agree at all.

fair enough, thats your opinion. was also going on that other pros say he has a great brain for the business. do you expect he will return at some point to wwe?

I do think he will come back because Vince realises that there is more "value" to the WWE in having him in the organisation, where they can control him, than outside it, speaking out or joining other companies. He is the living embodiment of the old era of chair shots and violence and because he is so associated with the WWE they don't want that to be on screen in a way that they cannot control.

JamesLincs wrote:fair enough, thats your opinion. was also going on that other pros say he has a great brain for the business. do you expect he will return at some point to wwe?

Yeah I think he will. He can be very useful to them in certain ways, but I don't think they would want him anywhere near a wrestling match.

I expect he will sign a legends contract and be inducted into the hall of fame. I'm not sure if he'll get an on-air role, he could be a decent GM or commentator but didn't enjoy doing either of those things before. I agree he seems to have a great mind for the business.

Crips,

With Chyna's plans to conduct a shoot interview going public, do you think anything could come out about HHH and steroid use?

Clarke James wrote:Crips,

With Chyna's plans to conduct a shoot interview going public, do you think anything could come out about HHH and steroid use?

I expect so. The only problem is that Chyna has zero credibility left, so anything she says will be taken with a pinch of salt. I'll be interested to hear what she says, but I will not take it 100% seriously and I doubt the wrestling world will.

Hi

I've got a question if anyone could answer. At Royal Rumble 91, one person did not come out from the back. After all the competitors had entered the ring, Gorilla Monsoon (After a process of elimination) stated that it was the Macho King. Do you know the reason why he never came out?

Paloma wrote:Hi

I've got a question if anyone could answer. At Royal Rumble 91, one person did not come out from the back. After all the competitors had entered the ring, Gorilla Monsoon (After a process of elimination) stated that it was the Macho King. Do you know the reason why he never came out?

It was the event where he interfered in the Ultimate Warrior vs Sgt Slaughter title match, so presumably the storyline explanation was that he no-showed as he was trying to escape Warrior.

Back in those days the Rumble didn't guarantee a Wrestlemania world title shot (although the 1991 winner, Hulk Hogan, did wrestle for the title at WM7), so it wasn't like there would be a storyline incentive to appear in the match.

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:

Paloma wrote:Hi

I've got a question if anyone could answer. At Royal Rumble 91, one person did not come out from the back. After all the competitors had entered the ring, Gorilla Monsoon (After a process of elimination) stated that it was the Macho King. Do you know the reason why he never came out?

It was the event where he interfered in the Ultimate Warrior vs Sgt Slaughter title match, so presumably the storyline explanation was that he no-showed as he was trying to escape Warrior.

Back in those days the Rumble didn't guarantee a Wrestlemania world title shot (although the 1991 winner, Hulk Hogan, did wrestle for the title at WM7), so it wasn't like there would be a storyline incentive to appear in the match.

I remember them saying that the Warrior probably ran him right out the building!

still in 90's. At Summerslam 92 with 'The Match made in Heaven' Was Jake Roberts and The Undertaker supposed to come out and ruin the 'wedding'? I remember the Piper and Monsoon saying that they have been spotted in the building but when it came to it nothing happened

Re the wedding, WWE ran an angle at the reception where Savage and Liz opened a gift and a snake jumped out at them. It was on the end of the Coloseum Video release I believe.

It was only ever supposed to be a angle that set up the Savage vs Jake feud. The heels weren't supposed to ruin the Summerslam moment itself.

Didn't 'taker and Roberts appear and start beating on Savage, only to be saved by one, both or all of Sid, Hogan and Warrior? Or am I totally making that up?

liverbnz wrote:Didn't 'taker and Roberts appear and start beating on Savage, only to be saved by one, both or all of Sid, Hogan and Warrior? Or am I totally making that up?

I seem to remember Sid being involved in the reception angle, but all I can remember for sure is that the PPV wedding itself was all happy and then they did the post-Summerslam wedding reception (which I presume wasn't on the PPV and was instead filmed for the video release and upcoming TV shows).

I don't think Hogan and Warrior were involved at all.

Thanks Mr Tart!

Can you expand on the story of Jericho doing a number on Goldberg?

Paloma wrote:Thanks Mr Tart!

Can you expand on the story of Jericho doing a number on Goldberg?

From memory, there was heat between the two going back to WCW, when Goldberg refused to work a programme with Jericho on the basis that he didn't work with cruiserweights. Then Bill went to WWE, where Jericho was a bigger fish than he had been in WCW.

From Jericho's book, he was told by Kevin Nash that Goldberg had been bad-mouthing him in WWE locker-rooms. Jericho went and challenged Goldberg to a scrap, fully expecting to get his face pounded in. He managed to lock Goldberg in a submission hold (a front-facelock comes to mind), which Goldberg couldn't escape from. The fight was then broken up, and Goldberg skulked away, with Jericho the declared winner in the locker-room.

maybe the real reason goldberg retired?

i have a question tart, or anyone who knows. did rikishi do any damagae to himself in the fall from the cell at armageddon 00'?

JamesLincs wrote:maybe the real reason goldberg retired?

i have a question tart, or anyone who knows. did rikishi do any damagae to himself in the fall from the cell at armageddon 00'?

I don't remember for sure, but I doubt he suffered any injuries, although I'm sure he ached a bit!

It was one of the most gimmicked landings I've ever seen. They did a really good job of making it look more devastating than it was. Didn't the truck have hay bales on the back of it or something?!

He was in the 2001 Royal Rumble so he can't have seriously hurt himself; my guess is that he was probably just a bit bruised for a few days!

i think it was just saw dust. to me it didnt look enough of a cushion for a man weighing 300 odd pounds falling from 15 feet

Something I have always wondered... what happens backstage when one wrestler legitimately injures another wrestler? Is it seen as a hazard of the job? Do they get in trouble with management or the other wrestlers? Do they apologise or not etc?

If I were in that situation I would feel very guilty at hurting the other person or potentially bitter at the guy if they put me on the shelf! Is this the way or goes down or are people more laissez faire about things?

When punk said vince make billions instead if millions why does he chooses not to?

Also if the bi-rates are down and the viewers down,why does cena keep his spot if he's meant to be carrying the company?

Possibly a stupid question, but, what does the C M stand for in C M Punk?

Chicago Made is Punk's most common answer but he has said other things in the past including my personal favourite "Championship Material"

CM doesnt stand for anything, it could be traced back to "Chick Magnet" when he was in a tag team.

Others include...

"Charles Montgomery"
"Cookie Monster"
"Crooked Moonsault"
"Charles Manson"

Cookie Master is another he's hinted at a lot based on that was apparantely the nickname his mum gave him as a kid.

Hero wrote:CM doesnt stand for anything, it could be traced back to "Chick Magnet" when he was in a tag team.

Others include...

"Charles Montgomery"
"Cookie Monster"
"Crooked Moonsault"
"Charles Manson"

Cookie Master is another he's hinted at a lot based on that was apparantely the nickname his mum gave him as a kid.

I just read that it could be chick magnet from a raw report i was reading just now, I never heard that and then read it twice in a matter of minutes

The name originated when he formed a tag team called the Chick Magnets on the indy scene.

He took on the moniker CM Punk, and the other guy was called CM something else.

After the Chick Magnets broke up, he kept the name, but the CM no longer stood for anything.

I'm not sure what he was called before the Chick Magnets were formed, or whether this was his first wrestling gig (which would put him in the unique position of still wrestling under the same name he debuted with).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CM_Punk

if you look on the right in the column under the picture it lists a wrestlers used names, i have looked at a lot of wrestlers on Wiki and Punk is the only one i think i've ever found with only 1 name CM PUNK. anyone else think of another???

Kaiser wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CM_Punk

if you look on the right in the column under the picture it lists a wrestlers used names, i have looked at a lot of wrestlers on Wiki and Punk is the only one i think i've ever found with only 1 name CM PUNK. anyone else think of another???

i assume you want to exclude those using their real names like mark henry and kurt angle?

Kaiser wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CM_Punk

if you look on the right in the column under the picture it lists a wrestlers used names, i have looked at a lot of wrestlers on Wiki and Punk is the only one i think i've ever found with only 1 name CM PUNK. anyone else think of another???

If we sit here and wait quietly for long enough, I'm sure someone will say Hulk Hogan or John Cena....

JamesLincs wrote:

Kaiser wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CM_Punk

if you look on the right in the column under the picture it lists a wrestlers used names, i have looked at a lot of wrestlers on Wiki and Punk is the only one i think i've ever found with only 1 name CM PUNK. anyone else think of another???

i assume you want to exclude those using their real names like mark henry and kurt angle?

Yeah I was thinking of wrestlers who have a ring name but only one

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:

Kaiser wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CM_Punk

if you look on the right in the column under the picture it lists a wrestlers used names, i have looked at a lot of wrestlers on Wiki and Punk is the only one i think i've ever found with only 1 name CM PUNK. anyone else think of another???

If we sit here and wait quietly for long enough, I'm sure someone will say Hulk Hogan or John Cena....

Hogan had 5 cena had 3

Shawn Michaels.

Not including people who used their real name, or a variation of it (eg Ric Flair, Rick Rude), I can think of:

Shawn Michaels (although the spelling changed!)
Lex Luger???
Hawk and Animal, though the name of their tag team changed, I believe always wrestled as Hawk and Animal???

Can anyone confirm these or think of any others?

take them with a pinch of salt it is wikipedia after all but

shawn michaels also wrestled as sean michaels

Lex Luger, The Total Package, The Narcissist

Crusher Von Haig. Road Warrior Hawk, Hawk

Road Warrior Animal, Animal, The Road Warrior
(probably should let this one go as they are all the same really)

The Halloween Phantom, The Ravishing One, Rick Rude, Ricky Rood, Smooth Operator

Ric Flair, The Black Scorpion, Ricky Rhodes, Nature Boy

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:Not including people who used their real name, or a variation of it (eg Ric Flair, Rick Rude), I can think of:

Shawn Michaels (although the spelling changed!)
Lex Luger???
Hawk and Animal, though the name of their tag team changed, I believe always wrestled as Hawk and Animal???

Can anyone confirm these or think of any others?

shawn micheals has had a slight variation (shawn-Sean)
Lex Luger was his only name
Animal was Known as the road warrior during his last stint
Hawk was also known as crusher von haig

to add
New Jack
Mikey Whipwreck
Dynamyte Kid

does anyone know when jericho is due to return?

Contains Money in the Bank 2011 spoilers:

Spoiler:

steveo1986 wrote:does anyone know when jericho is due to return?

No, but he is currently touring Europe with his band, Fozzy.

He has repeatedly said he will come back only when he feels he can do something different to last time, character wise. It may be he never comes back, but I think he will sooner rather than later.

Not that when he was Dancing with the Stars he pleaded for WWE fans to vote for him and said he'd return straight after it finished. With that and how he sucks up to the WWE machine at times I've lost a bit of respect for Jericho.

Sorry, work really busy at the moment, these ones were lingering around for a while.

Apologies again that they took so long to answer...

“Something I have always wondered... what happens backstage when one wrestler legitimately injures another wrestler? Is it seen as a hazard of the job? Do they get in trouble with management or the other wrestlers? Do they apologise or not etc?”

The general rule is obviously to apologise, but reactions vary.

It depends on whether the injury was caused by perceived carelessness, or if it was purely an accident that could have happened to anyone. Certain wrestlers have had reputations over the years for injuring people, for example Ahmed Johnson, Goldberg and Rob Van Dam when he first went to the WWF have all been criticised by their colleagues for being reckless. Someone with a reputation is more likely to be the victim of complaints if their opponent is hurt. They will also often suffer in the long run if they get such a reputation with management. RVD was white hot when he started in the company, but his numerous accidents turned the top stars against him backstage, and in turn that damaged management’s confidence in him.

I imagine it would also depend on the severity of the injury. Owen Hart was a very respected veteran when he injured Steve Austin, but Austin was understandably furious after suffering his broken neck. I’m not saying it was Owen’s fault, but Austin definitely considered it to be.

Some wrestlers will undoubtedly hold a grudge, or will shout about it, or will not like the apology they get, and there have been instances on wrestlers paying back their opponents with a couple of stiff shots next time they met in the ring (known in the business as a receipt). But on the whole it is a daily hazard of the job, and if a performer is mature enough they will deal with it.

“When punk said vince make billions instead if millions why does he chooses not to?”

He meant that Vince was a victim of his own stubbornness and short-sightedness, i.e. his promoting philosophy has been successful but it would have been more successful if he promoted WWE the way Punk felt it should be. Essentially he was saying that if Vince pushed the “wrestlers” to the top, rather than running away from the word wrestling, he could have made far more money.

“Also if the bi-rates are down and the viewers down,why does cena keep his spot if he's meant to be carrying the company?”

1) He is considered by the most powerful people in the company to be the best they have got
2) If they tried to insert someone else into the role, the likelihood is that buyrates and ratings will go down further

Vince McMahon is notoriously stubborn about changing course. He sees Cena as his top star and he considers it the fans’ problem if they can’t accept that (and in fairness, a great many of them do accept it). He’s also, whatever he may claim, petrified to try new things. Hence why so few genuine main event stars are created, and why he will scale back on a wrestlers’ push even when that wrestler seems to be doing well. For better or worse, John Cena is the man he has designated to be his franchise babyface, and unless Cena completely bombs he is unlikely to be shifted aside.

Credit to Cena, he has not completely bombed. He’s nowhere near the level of Lex Luger or Diesel when it comes to awful runs as the centrepiece of the promotion. In fact, business isn’t greatly different than it was when he was “coronated” in 2005 (only buyrates have gone down markedly since then). But he’s been in the role so long that he’s got Vince’s confidence forever; I don’t think he’ll ever be relegated down the card. It may take years for Vince to believe in you, but once he does you’re likely made for the rest of your career.

*****spoilers if not seen RAW!*****

Spoiler:

Many thanks Davies. I would also add to the comments on Cena that much of his reign at the top has come during the period where there has been a massive economic downturn in the US - frankly I would be amazed if buy-rates weren't down...

Also, I think that WWE operates on a much longer term plan than many of us would realise. This means that over recent times they have been hurt by certain stars no longer being available (whether through death, injury, moving promotions or sports) when they imagined that they would be.

I would guess that had things continued as WWE planned them their card would have looked something like:

Cena
Lesnar
Orton
Batista
Mysterio
Benoit
Angle
Guerrero
Edge
CM Punk

That isn't the case and therefore they have had to quickly push guys like Barrett, Sheamus, Miz etc to the top... though they are stuck between a rock and a hard place of needing more main eventers and not wanting another Lesnar situation.