Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Diggers]

First topic message reminder :

I don't mind Paul Walsh at all, there are at least another 5 on the Sky Soccer Saturday that are way worse. Thompson is annoying , Nicolas just as bad, Merson is funny in an are you simple kind of way. George Best used to be worst of the lot.
I always found Graham Taylor's commentary annoying , that was his voice more than anything though.
In athletics Colin Jackson is very poor as is Denise Lewis.

[McLaren]

Scholes has alluded many times to the fact he felt that most of the England team did not have the burning desire to win that he was used to at utd.

[navyblueshorts]

Maybe there was quite a lot more truth in that than people gave him credit for. Pretty poor if true.

[barragan]

hodgson is a failed manager in every single appointment he has taken.

are you sure about that mysty? from what I've read he appears to have done exceptionally well in many of his appointments.

[Doon the Water]

Hodgson got that well known football nation Switzerland to a World Cup that England failed to qualify for.

Enough said.

[super_realist]

Can anyone realistically say there is a single manager from any country that could get England past a QF?
When you build a team around inflexible cultureless retards who can only play as if its a PL game like Cole, Gerrard, Ferdinand, Rooney and Terry you should consider yourself extremely lucky to get that far.

Good luck Roy, but I think it will be the same old story.

[kwinigolfer]

What do you make of the speculation that Brooking harbours long-standing dislike for Redknapp and that was a contributing factor to 'Arry (and Spurs) being messed around?

Redknapp wouldn't have been my choice, but seems from here that the FA have treated him very shabbily.

[navyblueshorts]

Nothing. Brooking is only one of the panel and I seriously doubt he'd be that unprofessional. What evidence is there for such a dislike? Who says Redknapp and Spurs have been "messed around"?

[kwinigolfer]

nbs,
News to me also, and from my vantage point in the chicken run at Upton Park it was impossible to tell anything about cliques, then or, obviously, thereafter.

Don't you think the FA should have been straightforward about the selection process when it became clear that Redknapp was the presumed #1 candidate? I can certainly believe that the dressing room was affected by all the speculation.

[Faldono1fan]

If I had to choose a British manager & he would be willing to do the job then that would have been David Moyes. Best young manager by a mile & would have got the best out of those overpaid cretins.

Having said that I would have kept Pearce until after the Euro's & try & feed off his passion. Bringing someone like Hodgson in so close to the Euro's could be counter productive.

I don't think Hodgson is strong enough & for me he is in the same mould as Mclaren & G Taylor. I hope I am proved wrong.

[Lairdy]

What would consititute an acceptable performance for Hodgson in the summer?

[Doon the Water]

Faldo
I would dispute your claims as Graham Taylor is England's most successful manager. [if you look up the record books]

[Faldono1fan]

Doon,

I measure success by trophies. On that basis there has only been one successful England manager. I don't need to look his name up in the record books.

[McLaren]

faldo

When Sir Alex calls it a day I hope utd get Moyes, he has been the best manager in the premiership along with Wenger and Ferguson.

[Faldono1fan]

Mac,

I am totally with you on that one. Moyes is top notch.

[hend085]

his big failling though is that with very few exceptions. his big money signings have all been flops.
hes signed lower level players and made them decent premiership players, but has he signed anyone for 5m+ thats turned out to be a superstar?

[Fader]

Typical English thing going on here! Rather than backing Hodgson, everyones writing him off before he has even played a game.

Is success trophies only or exceeding the excpectations of the club you manage! If that's the case then Hodgson is perfect as he has exceeded pretty much everywhere he's been e.g Fulham in a Europa league final, the Swiss to world cups, West Brom top half of prem, and not to mention the titles he's won in other countries.
Redknapp 1 FA cup was exceeding at Pompey, but at Spurs he's not exceeding expectations is he, just about managing to meet them.

End of the day FA have made their choice so rather than slate a man before a ball is even kicked would it not be better to see what evolves and judge him after World cup qualifiers have happened, its not like he has much time to work with the team ahead of the Euros, just 2 friendlies, which no doubt everyone will slate him for unless we win 10-0!

[kwinigolfer]

Let's face it, the cupboard is bare, not many (any?) qualified Englishmen in there.

Would definitely not have chosen Redknapp (despite his outstanding club record and speaking as a Pompey fan - who he abandoned by going to Spurs when they were plumb last), and am quite prepared to give Hodgson the benefit of the doubt. Hope he retains Pearce and agree with faldo that I'd've been inclined to leave Pearce in for the Euros.

Moyes is terrific - everyone has had their high priced flops, but the England job is all about moulding a Team, not taking a flier on a Senagalese playing in Ukraine and hoping he adjusts to the Prem and Merseyside.

[McLaren]

Kwini

Even sir Alex signs quite a few flops but the way Everton battle for the team and club as a whole is very reminiscent to how Ferguson gets all his Utd teams playing regardless of the quality of the individual players. I would imagine Moyes must have had one of the lowest overall budgets during the last ten years?

[super_realist]

According to tommy docherty, moyes will be the next man u manager.

[Faldono1fan]

To manage a club like Everton for around 10 years in a city that is fanatical about football on a limited budget sucessfully is incredible. That job has alot of pressure, but he handles it very well. I hope Hodgson does well, but I am convinced Moyes would be a better choice.

[navyblueshorts]

nbs,
...Don't you think the FA should have been straightforward about the selection process when it became clear that Redknapp was the presumed #1 candidate? I can certainly believe that the dressing room was affected by all the speculation.

Why should the FA say anything at all about the process? I'm sure they were to the need-to-know people behind the scenes and I don't recall them saying much about 'Arry - all that came from the 4th Estate know-it-alls and the Twittersphere. As for the Spurs dressing room, what sort of so-say professionals let themselves lose the plot match-by-match because of some ridiculous media wittering? If that's the case, they sum up everything that's wrong with the modern pro footballer at the top level. Just get out on the pitch and do what you're paid for. If 'Arry lost the plot (and in doing so failed in his job with the Spurs quad) with the idea of being England manager, then I think it suggests the FA got the right man after all don't you reckon?

For me, the problem is and always will be the players. They have this absurd "show us your medals" mentality re. thinking a manager can be any good and yet they have Ferguson, Wenger, Moyes, Morinho etc etc actually putting a far better case that to be a good manager it's almost axiomatic that you should have been an average player yourself. Maybe, just maybe with these excellent managers, in their playing careers they had to learn/adapt/maximise their abilities as they weren't so naturally gifted; maybe they actually had to think about the game. Most of the English players seem incapable of any thought when it comes to what they're doing, it appears completely alien to them that they might be asked to have some self-discipline and God-forbid that they might not be allowed their WAG other-halves while at a major tournament or have to stay somewhere outside the bright lights of a major city. Most of them aren't remotely flexible, can't (apparently) learn and never play anywhere except the "Best League in the World".

No, when they've had it with Hodgson I predict that he'll "lose the dressing room" (i.e. they won't do what they're professionally required to do and play to the best of their ability every time), the media will get on his back non-stop (of course, they're the tactical experts along with the ex-Pros who couldn't manage/coach their way out of a paper bag...otherwise they'd be doing so), he'll suddenly be a "turnip" and the FA will show, yet again, that they have something else where their cojones should be.

[Diggers]

What examples do you have of this show us your medals mentality players have ? As far a I know the players wanted Harry who was an average player. They didn't want Capello who was a top drawer player.
Players increasingly go into the media as a choice. There is notiong to say they have to coach, indeed as millionaires many prefer a less pressured life. It doesn't mean they can't have a good view on the game. Jamie Redknapp and Gary Nevile and indeed Lineker and Hansen are prime examples. They've never expressed a desire to coach.
As for Spurs losing form....well that's hardly a new phenomenon.

[McLaren]

Diggers

But why would the players want an average manager like Arry? Is it becuase they know he is typical English and will pander to whatever half arsed attitude they want to play the game with?

If they wanted to win a major tournament they would have listened to an implemented everything capello told them.

[Diggers]

I don't think the players were screaming for anyone to be honest , nor have they had much to do with the whole process.
Maybe they like Harry because he plays attacking football and that would make a pleasant change from the dull Capello and Sven reigns.
For my money the best England manager was Hoddle who had plenty of medals, and the most successful in tournaments were Venables and Robson...both England players as well.

[Faldono1fan]

I think Sir Alf might have eclipsed Venables and Robson.

[Doon the Water]

Goodness don't tell me an Englishman has forgotten 1966.
Englands only trophy.

[kwinigolfer]

nbs,
To be honest, I don't know too much about how a dressing room should be expected to respond when the media is full of 'Arry this, 'Arry that and of course 'Arry the other.
All I DO know from miserable personal experience is the impact a CEO can have in the corporate world, how untimely deaths and departures (even speculation on departutres and possible replacements) can have on careers. Profound in my experience, life-changing the very least one can say.

Given the rampant speculation, I think it's untenable that the FA, in a situation all of their own making, can't have got to grips with this back when Fabnot left. And, if they have the same opinion of the players' "show us your medals mentality" as you do, all the more reason especially given tweets by twits like Rooney and Ferdinand.

Ramsey clearly the outstanding England manager, but the very fact that arguably his best team failed to win the WC just goes to show how fickle this win-or-bust world is.

[Diggers]

Was talking in terms of everything since we won the world cup Faldo. Though worth noting Ramsey also played for England 32 times so was no mug either.

[Faldono1fan]

It was tongue in cheek Diggers, hence the smiley.

[Diggers]

Fair do's , I did ask for a bit of stick. Even I'm not old enough to remember Ramsey anyway (not like Kwini and Doon ). Ron Greenwood was the first England manager I really remember, not great really.

[Faldono1fan]

I was born in 66 so don't remember too much. Apparantly my mum took me out in the pram when extra time was on because she couldn't watch. Bloody typical!

[Diggers]

67 for me so I missed everything.

[kwinigolfer]

At least I don't remember Ramsey as a player . . . . .

But I DID see Hoddle's first game for Spurs!

[Doon the Water]

I saw Hoddle's last playing season at Swindon.
He played the Beckenbaur role and was quiet superb.
Very good manager, said something extremely strange and was lost to the game.
John Gorman and Hoddle were a grand partnership.
Look at the number of their Swindon team players who went on to be good managers and coaches.

[kwinigolfer]

Swindon's often been a good breeding ground for promising players, Summerbee, Hunt, Woodruff, Rogers, Thomas, Trolloppe among the best of the 60's and 70's.
Bert Head and Fred Coleman did a wonderful job paving the way for Hoddle, Ardilles etc.

[Diggers]

Remember Micky Hazard in that Swindon team , quality footballer, very under rated.

[kwinigolfer]

Born in Sunderland, of course he's under-rated!

[Doon the Water]

Diggers

Hazzard and Hoddle played very well together but I think they did not get on too well.
Some good golfers in that team, played with most of them.
John Moncur, Colin Calderwood, Dave Hockaday and Paul Bodin.
My assistant manager was Paul Trollopes best pal so we did ok for match tickets.

[Diggers]

Never played for us Kwini, gutting as he was a fan. Doon, maybe Micky held a grudge as Hoddle kept him out of the Spurs side.

[Hibbz]

Remember Micky Hazard in that Swindon team , quality footballer, very under rated.

One of my pals has just seen him play in a charity match at Swindon this evening. Said he was still quality but then she is a diehard season ticket holding Swindon fan so I'd expect nothing less. Other players mentioned were Anderton, Kamara, Dicks and an old school pal of mine Sam Igoe.

Di Canio scored a hat-trick so I'm not sure how competitive said match was!

[navyblueshorts]

What examples do you have of this show us your medals mentality players have ? As far a I know the players wanted Harry who was an average player. They didn't want Capello who was a top drawer player.
Players increasingly go into the media as a choice. There is notiong to say they have to coach, indeed as millionaires many prefer a less pressured life. It doesn't mean they can't have a good view on the game. Jamie Redknapp and Gary Nevile and indeed Lineker and Hansen are prime examples. They've never expressed a desire to coach.
As for Spurs losing form....well that's hardly a new phenomenon.

I obviously don't have a specific, evidence-based example now do I? I'm probably OTT but nothing, at all, that I see in most of the so-called stars of the Premiership fills me with any confidence in them. You're right about players entering the media and I guess the Shakespeare/monkeys/type writers logic suggests that some of them ought to be OK. It's easy, after all, to 'analyse' and criticise those doing a job they aren't willing to take on but if the media are willing to pay them, I guess they can't be all that daft.

...Given the rampant speculation, I think it's untenable that the FA, in a situation all of their own making, can't have got to grips with this back when Fabnot left...

I'm not sure any of this is of the FA's own making except where it had to do with Capello leaving. Maybe. If they'd poached a Redknapp or Hodgson or whomever mid-season they'd have been damned by that as well. Nothing they do will satisfy this Country's media.

[kwinigolfer]

Fortunately Cisse has obtained FIFA clearance for British citizenship so England will be OK after all . . . .

[Diggers]

So the barcodes get hammered at the JD but win at the bridge...bizarre season. Might rattle a few Man City nerves that result.

[dynamark]

Fortunate to remember 66 quite incredible for a young lad.
Abiding memory was my dad going out a few days before and purchasing a huge colour TV(we was black and white before) - about 3 ft deep with the tube.Goodness knows what it cost mum didnt speak to him for a month.

[McLaren]

As we have already touched on the topic what are peoples greatest moments watching sport? Whether you think it was an incredible perfoance from an individual or your teams biggest achievement what made the hairs stand on the back of your neck?

For me nothing beats CL final 99 in barcelona especially coming after the events in Turin to get there. I cant count the number of times I have watched it on you tube.

[kwinigolfer]

Incredible thing about '66 was how poorly England played in its early matches, but how much we/they improved as the tournament went on. Could easily not have advanced from the Group stages but the changes Siralf made during the weeks somehow worked.

Easy to forget that John Connelly and Jimmy Greaves were in the initial line-up and then Terry Paine and Ian Callaghan, before Geoff Hurst was introduced and the final line-up was settled for the game vs Argentina and Rattin's dismassal.

Roger Hunt gets arguably less press than any of the team but it was his goals that got us going.

'Course, it also didn't hurt that every match was played at Wembley!

Still think the 1970 team was a better footballing team.


And: In answer to Mac's question:
T1).First ever Football game: Portsmouth 5 vs Arsenal 2.
T1).1987 Ryder Cup: Muirfield Village. Europe beats the U.S.

[navyblueshorts]

Re. Mac's question, lots to choose from:-

Golf: The whole of the '77 'Duel in the Sun' between Watson and Nicklaus.
Rugby: Wilkinson's '03 extra-time drop goal to win the RWC.
Tennis: Borg-McEnroe, 1980.
Football: Maxi Rodriguez' extra-time winner in the '06 World Cup. Can remember my jaw hitting the floor...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVVSOGLyAcU

[McLaren]

Navy

Are yo from Argentina?

[super_realist]

Ivanisevic v Rafters final

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

Are yo from Argentina?

No. Odd thing to ask; I just appreciate top notch skill when I see it. Do you read The Sun? Or maybe it's the Daily Mail?

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