Ulster V Munster, Aironi V Ospreys, Scarlets Vs Blues, Leinster V Dragons - LIVE discussion

First topic message reminder :

Watching all 3 of these games at once.

Blues V Scarlets
http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic/e_live.shtml

Ulster V Munster
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17940473

Aironi V Ospreys
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16836106

Warriors V Connacht
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/tv/bbc_alba/watchlive

Live Scores website
http://matchdaylive.rabodirectpro12.com/index.php

With the BBC ones just use the pop out option, and make the browser smaller on the s4c one and put the sound down on the 2 u dont want.

Good to see you back DOD

its a bit like the stepford wives on here at times rodders..just putting forward the alternative view

Anyhow..aren't we all kicking the pope these days

DOD wrote:Anyhow..aren't we all kicking the pope these days

Nah that's only Martin McGuinness's personal crusade.

The Great Aukster wrote:

DOD wrote:Anyhow..aren't we all kicking the pope these days

Nah that's only Martin McGuinness's personal crusade.

Jumping on the bandwagon as usual

DOD wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

DOD wrote:Anyhow..aren't we all kicking the pope these days

Nah that's only Martin McGuinness's personal crusade.

Jumping on the bandwagon as usual

Well you can kick the pope if you want to, but I'll respectfully decline that particular bandwagon. Papa Razzi is pure box office.

We all know that BBC NI is a joke, but tonight they outdid themselves. Did anyone see their halftime reaction to Trimbles yellow? The bias was embarassing! Theres nothing more sickening to me than people who don't have the balls to hold their hands up.

Also, so what if Zebo made a drama of it, Trimbles obstruction was a dirty foul regardless of the reaction.

This ulster fan is man enough to admit it!

Hendersons try was unreal, and jacksons defence agin was brilliant!

Not much else to sing about though, but hopefully these young guys will be brought along well by Brian next year! (Thats if somebody doesnt nab him after we win the HC!)

DOD wrote:I thought Mafi was the best Munster back yo be honest, he made a couple of the tries and was the most liveliest until earls came on. CM did well but Marshall was so inept he was made to look good.

Thought Spence was poor to be honest all bosh and no brain...

POM is wasted at 8.

Haven't seen tonight's game, but two MOTM performances there this season says otherwise, and his recent performances.

Plus just saw he scored a try also. Looking forward to catching the game tomorrow!

clivemcl wrote:We all know that BBC NI is a joke, but tonight they outdid themselves. Did anyone see their halftime reaction to Trimbles yellow? The bias was embarassing! Theres nothing more sickening to me than people who don't have the balls to hold their hands up.

RTE were much more even handed they acknowledged Johne Murphy should also have been carded for his tackle on Spence off the ball.

So Ulster beat Munster with their South Africans but then get smashed without any of them.

South Africa weren't world champions for nothing! Munster beat Ulster with their South Africans.

Rolland should have out on a red shirt to be honest. I have defended him but there was little or no pressure in that game and he bottled numerous decisions. Massively poor. Aside from that munster were far better.

- agree with DOD bar one turnover trimble was poor and deserved the yellow.
- Zebo deserves a massive slap for his drogba esque moment
- Henderson is good but lots to learn. Has the mobility required
- Marshall was poor and to be honest we do not look like an attacking team with PJ at 10. Give him free rein to do what he wants
- Diack has improved but still too soft. Bye willie, I will take Ali.
- cochrane was meh
- Tuohy and Stevenson were very good and deserved better
- hope POC is ok. Farewell MOD
- mafi had a cracker. Thought Murray was pretty good too. McIlroy if he gets his pass right has a beauty, far too inconsistent with it though.
- fingers crossed for another all Irish final

OK just watched it....

Spence, Tuohy and Henderson apart I think quite a few of those Ulster lads need to take a look in the mirror and decide if they want to just swan around Belfast in Ulster jerseys or be professional rugby players because that was appalling.

Marshall was awful, Trimble carried on his poor form and Stevensons attitude was disgraceful. He looked like he was playing the game at half pace, walking back into the defensive line and into rucks... his half hearted effort for the try of the rolling maul was appalling.

Gilroy and IHumph looked sharp when they came on but there seems to be a total lack of leadership without Muller and Best which is very worrying.

Munster got the rub of the green from Rolland but were far hungrier and more physical.

O'Mahoney had an exceptional game and they were superior in every single aspect of the game. Zebo looked good and should make the NZ tour.

rodders wrote:OK just watched it....

Spence, Tuohy and Henderson apart I think quite a few of those Ulster lads need to take a look in the mirror and decide if they want to just swan around Belfast in Ulster jerseys or be professional rugby players because that was appalling.

Marshall was awful, Trimble carried on his poor form and Stevensons attitude was disgraceful. He looked like he was playing the game at half pace, walking back into the defensive line and into rucks... his half hearted effort for the try of the rolling maul was appalling.

Gilroy and IHumph looked sharp when they came on but there seems to be a total lack of leadership without Muller and Best which is very worrying.

Munster got the rub of the green from Rolland but were far hungrier and more physical.

O'Mahoney had an exceptional game and they were superior in every single aspect of the game. Zebo looked good and should make the NZ tour.

I didn't know the RSC were touring NZ this summer!

Great talent, but that dive was embarrassing.

There's contact so it's not a dive, he halted Zebo's momentum. No complaints from Trimble, he knew what he was doing. Deserved a penalty and a card.

Ah come on now Mrs P, our very own Stevie Ferris is prone to the odd theatrical dive himself from time to time....

Johne Murphy did the exact same thing as Trimble towards the end, tackling the player without the ball but got away with it.

It was embarrassing.

What was eirebilly's great expression.

"I was very disappointed in the manner in which he went down!"

(paraphrased)

Thing is, from that match kids have learnt,

(1) Get your shirt pulled and fling yourself to the ground like a soccer player...get your opponent yellowed.

(2) Get tackled off the ball and keep your feet and you don't even get the penalty.

Not a good thing surely?

Why is that a bad thing? People give out about players getting away with murder. If someone offends then it should be a penalty.

You want to see rugby players going down like there were snipers in the stands?

If there's clear contact like there was last night then I don't see much of a problem. If there's contact, there's contact and if a guy makes a meal out of it, then there shouldn't be much of a problem. An offence is an offence. I don't know if you have played rugby or any other contact sport MrsP, but a small shove can knock you off balance. It's quite possible that Zebo couldn't help himself from falling. Trimble's reaction would tell you whether he believed it was a penalty. He knew what he did and knew the consequences.

I've played a fair bit of sport , though only one rugby match if you dom't count playing in the garden with the kids, and I know that it doesn't take much when you are running at full tilt.

Trimble did tug his shirt and I'm not complaining about a penalty but that was a dive.

Rolland used the words "taken out" and wanted to award a penalty try.

Would that have been fair?

It wasn't a penalty try as it wasn't certain he would score. It was a penalty offence, I don't think he dived, having seen a few replays at the time. I haven't seen one this morning though.

i think Zebo went down a bit easily but it was a penalty. Yellow was harsh, given for exaggerated reaction, but they didn't capitalise so I don't really care.

Good to see some good natured banter about it between Zebo and Trimble on twitter after the game.

I think Trimble is still trying to catch up to Zebo after being skinned about three times. Credit to Trimble for that steal from Sherry.

Notch wrote:i think Zebo went down a bit easily but it was a penalty. Yellow was harsh, given for exaggerated reaction, but they didn't capitalise so I don't really care.

Good to see some good natured banter about it between Zebo and Trimble on twitter after the game.

I thought Stevenson put in his usual effort in fairness rodders. He isn't as powerful as some but by god he puts himself about.

Zebo's reaction is just a symptom of the gamesmanship that is becoming part of the game sadly. I commented on it in 2009 when we had John smit, the vastly experienced and respected captain of SA brandishing imaginary up yellow cards. Luke fitz has done it, Pienaar has done it as have countless others. Big stevie going down like a sack of spuds when Lemi (I think) barely connected with him as well. Flannery was prone to a bit of it too.

It's something that saddens me greatly to see creeping into the game. To my mind I have no issue if a captain approaches a referee and asks a question regarding a yellow card, but this brandishing and waving their arms about is really poor form and there isn't one professional team immune from it.

Having watched it again, there can be no complaints from an Ulster point of view- Trimble moves towards Zebo and makes contact. Yes Zebo exaggerates the contact but once you do what Trimble has done there you leave yourself open to it. It could have been just a penalty but if Trimble is adjudicated to have checked his momentum and the try is potentially on a yellow is fair.

Trimble has a bit of a fight on his hands to stay first choice next year. Gilroy, Bowe and Payne seems to me to be quite a tasty combination in the back three.

Trimble is not playing well at all recently

rodders wrote:OK just watched it....

Spence, Tuohy and Henderson apart I think quite a few of those Ulster lads need to take a look in the mirror and decide if they want to just swan around Belfast in Ulster jerseys or be professional rugby players because that was appalling.

Marshall was awful, Trimble carried on his poor form and Stevensons attitude was disgraceful. He looked like he was playing the game at half pace, walking back into the defensive line and into rucks... his half hearted effort for the try of the rolling maul was appalling.

Gilroy and IHumph looked sharp when they came on but there seems to be a total lack of leadership without Muller and Best which is very worrying.

Munster got the rub of the green from Rolland but were far hungrier and more physical.

O'Mahoney had an exceptional game and they were superior in every single aspect of the game. Zebo looked good and should make the NZ tour.

I thought Zebo was only average, he still makes far too many mistakes but that could be down to the Munster coaching. He runs lovely lines but yesterday he made a few knock-ons, bad decisions and should have done better on Henderson for that try. Gilroy also should have been much better
fort he last Munster try.

On POM, he really is a superb rugby player, and 8 looks like it could be his best player. He is good enough to play across the backrow but his last few displays at 8 have been brilliant. He is always looking for the offload in the tackle and his hands are excellent. You'd worry about him lacking the weight of an eight but he realises this and is very smart at targetting the weak shoulder or space and making ground.

On Henderson, he looked good at 6 but he is a 4, and should be developed there, that is the position we need a youngster coming through and that is were I think he will be best at.

I agree about O'Mahoney. He should have been starting in the last 6 Nations, let alone the upcoming summer tour.

By the way has anyone noticed that despite all the talk of "The Italians are getting better and better", they're actually not? Treviso have finished worse than last season, with two wins less. And although Aironi got 4 wins to last years 1, they're folding anyway. The Italians are not getting better an better. In the 6 Nations, or the HC or the PRO12.

Too early to say on Henderson. He's shown he has the mobility and skills to play at 6; he strikes me as a dynamic, ball-carrying lock in the mould of Dan Tuohy but 6 is not a bad place to give him gametime at this age even if he's viewed as a lock long term.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I agree about O'Mahoney. He should have been starting in the last 6 Nations, let alone the upcoming summer tour.

By the way has anyone noticed that despite all the talk of "The Italians are getting better and better", they're actually not? Treviso have finished worse than last season, with two wins less. And although Aironi got 4 wins to last years 1, they're folding anyway. The Italians are not getting better an better. In the 6 Nations, or the HC or the PRO12.

Not so much this season from last, but compared to before the Italians joined the Pro12 I'd say they are better in the Heineken Cup.

Italian pro club rugby is still in its infancy.it will take years before we start seeing them do well in both the rabbo and the HC. You have to give it time

Notch wrote:Too early to say on Henderson. He's shown he has the mobility and skills to play at 6; he strikes me as a dynamic, ball-carrying lock in the mould of Dan Tuohy but 6 is not a bad place to give him gametime at this age even if he's viewed as a lock long term.

Yeah no harm in giving him gametime but he is the type of baby eating enforcer type of locks that are really hard to find. Donnacha Ryan is in the same mould but Henderson has the potential to be excellent.
Even though if he wants to be a lock I'd say he learned a lot yesterday because POC and Tuohy were both class. Poc getting injured is a huge blow for the summer tour because he has been outstanding this year.

He has the potential to be that alright but it will take him time to acclimatise to the physicality of the pro game. Most locks of that ilk don't really start dominating until they're about 24/25- Henderson is 20/21. There will be a transition for him into the professional game from U20s/Schools level and I think starting at 6 before moving to lock is a great idea. He has all the attributes, he's a great prospect.

MrsP wrote:It was embarrassing.

What was eirebilly's great expression.

"I was very disappointed in the manner in which he went down!"

(paraphrased)

Thing is, from that match kids have learnt,

(1) Get your shirt pulled and fling yourself to the ground like a soccer player...get your opponent yellowed.

(2) Get tackled off the ball and keep your feet and you don't even get the penalty.

Not a good thing surely?

Look, I know the dive was bad taste, but personally speaking, I'm sick of the plague in professional rugby of obstructions. Its become common practice, and only 1 in every ten are penalised. Even as an Ulster fan, I'm glad Trimble was yellowed. I don't want to see it in the game at all. As a player there is nothing more detestable than being illegally impeded.

The only thing I'd prefer to have seen is zebo, instead of diving, to have given trimble a punch in the face.

This attitude is not good for professional rugby.

If zebo hadnt dived, it might well have been yet another instance of the officials refusing to penalise. If i was getting impeded week in week out and the offending players continually got away with it, i would be tempted to make the incident a bit more colourful.

To be honest clive, the punch in the face option isn't the best for rugby either.

Notch wrote:To be honest clive, the punch in the face option isn't the best for rugby either.

Nice witty way to avoid responding to my post's sentiment Notch!

You know I think I would rather have the odd obstruction going unpunished than have players flinging themselves to the ground on the slightest pretext.

I'd rather have neither actually but I really don't think Zebo's antics are a good thing.

We have always had players tugging shirts, obstructing runners etc but this socceresque stuff seems to be becoming more common. Not good.

So if you have scoring opportunities week in week out going amiss because you've been obstructed and the ref didnt 'see it', you wouldnt consider making it easier to see ie. dramatised?

Come on, you want to score, you want to win. That means you want the ref to make the right calls. We all want justice. I really dont think the theatrics is the big sin you all seem to think it is.

Well if you look at my posts I've largely agreed with you. He took a player out off the ball, it's a yellow card. The dive is neither here nor there.

Possible call up for O'Donnell in NZ? I thought he was everywhere in that game.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Possible call up for O'Donnell in NZ? I thought he was everywhere in that game.

Lovely step on Gilroy for his last minute try as well. Would like to see him travel but not at Henry's expense

Speaking of Gilroy, I really hope he gets a call up too. So much more talented than Zebo honestly. People forget that Gilroy was scoring tries for fun last season, when Ulster were much more effective in attack IMO. He hasn't had as much space this season and still usually beats his man. Next season I think the likes of Gilroy/Spence are going to look really dangerous again in attack.

Spence was unreal in defence. Surely the most physical centre available for Ireland. Needs the right sort of players to be effective, but I think he would add so much. He is behind a few options, but to me he has amazing talent. Hopefully a season at his best position (13) will get him recognition again for his attacking abilities.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Speaking of Gilroy, I really hope he gets a call up too. So much more talented than Zebo honestly. People forget that Gilroy was scoring tries for fun last season, when Ulster were much more effective in attack IMO. He hasn't had as much space this season and still usually beats his man. Next season I think the likes of Gilroy/Spence are going to look really dangerous again in attack.

Spence was unreal in defence. Surely the most physical centre available for Ireland. Needs the right sort of players to be effective, but I think he would add so much. He is behind a few options, but to me he has amazing talent. Hopefully a season at his best position (13) will get him recognition again for his attacking abilities.

I think there is a higher chance of Spence falling further behind in the pecking order next season. He's not as good a 13 as Cave and with Bowe signed, and Payne able to play 13 as well, along with Marshall and Farrell coming up behind him in the centres, he is unlikely to get a lot of gametime.

Also Trimble is going to have to find his form from somewhere, or he is going to be sitting on the bench for most of next season.

And on TOD going to New Zealand, I'd leave him behind personally, he was blown away physically in the quarter final and would be better served working in the gym and changing his carrying technique. He tends to run way to uptight, much like Ruddock was doing at the start of the season for Leinster, because he is used to playing in the AIL where he is bigger and quicker than everyone. He needs to watch POM play and see how he goes low and targets the weak shoulder.

I agree with almost all of that val. Spence has shown he is good defensively but he isn't offering enough as an attacking option IMO.

Nah, Spence will get plenty of game-time. Cave will get more chances with Ireland probably, and Spence will be second choice to Cave, and get plenty of games coming off the bench. Currently he isn't as good as Cave, but he is a different kind of player at 13. He will play as Cave's understudy, but that will do him a ton of good, and hopefully he can work on his distribution skills. Lately most of our praises for Cave/Spence have been for their defensive duties though. As I said, I think Ulster's attack has been pretty poor this season all around. Hence why the likes of Gilroy/Spence haven't been as effective in attack.

I didn't think TOD was blown away physically in the quarter at all. His tackle count in that game was huge, he was up with the top tacklers despite coming off around the 50 minute mark or so. He is a pretty good ball carrier, but as a 7 I am more interested in his abilities at the breakdown and as a link man. He was very good in both areas yesterday. Like a young Jennings to be honest. I do agree that NZ is probably too early for him at this point.

I have to agree about Spence.
He really has to start to think about other aspects of his game than just trying to bash up the middle.

Fantastic in defence but reminds me a wee bit of the big centres at U14s who can run through everyone until they all get that size and then he hasn't developed the skills to counteract that. I really think he will though.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Nah, Spence will get plenty of game-time. Cave will get more chances with Ireland probably, and Spence will be second choice to Cave, and get plenty of games coming off the bench. Currently he isn't as good as Cave, but he is a different kind of player at 13. He will play as Cave's understudy, but that will do him a ton of good, and hopefully he can work on his distribution skills. Lately most of our praises for Cave/Spence have been for their defensive duties though. As I said, I think Ulster's attack has been pretty poor this season all around. Hence why the likes of Gilroy/Spence haven't been as effective in attack.

I didn't think TOD was blown away physically in the quarter at all. His tackle count in that game was huge, he was up with the top tacklers despite coming off around the 50 minute mark or so. He is a pretty good ball carrier, but as a 7 I am more interested in his abilities at the breakdown and as a link man. He was very good in both areas yesterday. Like a young Jennings to be honest. I do agree that NZ is probably too early for him at this point.

And Jennings has always been underpowered. In the quarter final everytime he carried the ball he was sent backwards. He was outstanding in the Munster Ulster game in Ravenhill this year despite Munster being very poor and Ulster began to pull away after he went off. He is good at the breakdown but he still has a lot to work on, his biggest problem is that he tends to pick up injuries at the wrong time. His hands aren't the greatest as a link man, and I think Brian O'Hara or B O'Mahony are better link players but again they both have problems with BOH being too small and BOM having a job in Dublin and working full time.

Zebo made the most of the Trimble contact and effectively "sold" Rolland the yellow card and almost sold the penalty try too. I'd be reluctant to say such gamesmanship has no place in the game as while it rankles the sense of fairness, why shouldn't a try to con the ref as they do at the breakdown etc. So I'm torn over Spence not "diving" in almost the same circumstance. What I didn't understand was how TOL can barge Whitten into a bunch of chairs and not even get spoken to?

O'Donnell should go ahead of Jennings. Ferris, O'Bries, Heaslip, O'Donnell, O'Mahony and Henry. I like it.