Letter from Frank Warren to BBBC

Letter from Frank Warren to BBBC

Dear Mr Smith, I refer to the press release which you issued earlier this week in which you state that any member of the British Boxing Board of Control who participates in the Haye v. Chisora fight “will be deemed to have terminated” both his membership of your Board and his licence. As you know I am Dereck Chisora’s manager and even if I am not at the fight I will be ‘participating’ in accordance with your definition of this word in the press release.

I write to make two complaints about your press release. The first is that there are no substantive grounds to revoke my licence and the second is that you have not properly complied with any procedural requirements..

Substantive Grounds

Under Rule 4.12 of your own Rules and Regulations, as a licence holder I can participate “(a) in or at a Promotion which is licensed by the BBBofC; or (b) in or at a Promotion organised by a Federation, Commission, Association or Controlling Authority affiliated to, or recognised by the BBBofC”. The Federation Luxembourgoise De Boxe is a Federation affiliated to and recognised by the Board; both are affiliated to the EBU. As that Federation is sanctioning the Haye v. Chisora fight, my participation is not a breach of your Rules.

You have not communicated your complaint to me at all, but in the press statement your concern appears to be that a member who participates in the Haye v. Chisora fight would “bring the sport of boxing into disrepute”. As I say, were the Board to really consider that I was bringing the sport into disrepute then I would expect you to have set out the charges against me by letter and with a level of particularity.

I cannot see how I can be bringing boxing into disrepute for the following reasons (which list is not exhaustive):

*It cannot be because the fight is unlicensed, because it is licensed by a Federation older than the Board, affiliated to the EBU and which has the same medical provisions, testing, safety provisions and insurance as the Board;

*It cannot be because David Haye is fighting and is not licensed by the Board. If this were the case, you would object to almost every fight taking place overseas. Indeed, I note that the Board has not complained that the WBA is bringing the sport into disrepute, despite that organisation licensing Mayweather’s fight even though he has a conviction for domestic violence;

*It cannot be because Dereck Chisora is not licensed by the Board, for the reasons above. Also, if the Board did consider that Mr Chisora should not fight again, it would have banned him for life. Instead it withdrew his licence but invited him to apply for a licence with the Board or with another sanctioning body when he wished to do so;

*It cannot be because of safety reasons. Not just because the Federation has the same procedures as the Board, but also because the Board took no sanction against Promoter Barry Hearn after he ignored the Board’s refusal to grant Julian Jackson a licence to fight in the UK against Herol Graham and staged the fight in Spain. Indeed, the Board supplied officials for that fight and gained financially. Further, whilst the Board has been found guilty of negligence (in relation to Michael Watson), the Federation has had no such decisions against it;

*It cannot be because there is a fight sanctioned in the UK by the Luxembourg Federation. This is because the Board has licensed fights in other jurisdictions, as have many other Federations and Associations and because of the principle of free trade across Europe.

Procedural Grounds

If in fact you really did consider that I, a licensee, is guilty of misconduct because of my ‘participation’ in the Haye v. Chisora fight, then you need still to comply with Rule 25. The Board would need to send me a formal complaint and require me to answer it and attend before the Board. You have not done so.

My Complaint

My concern is that by issuing the threat contained in your press release you are trying to stop me from being involved in a legitimate and lawful fight governed by another Federation and to interfere with my freedom to work and to earn a living. I am worried that you have taken this decision not because you are really concerned about the fight (for the reasons I set out above) but because you are fearful that you will lose your monopoly in the UK.

I require written confirmation that you will not seek to take away my licence if I remain Dereck Chisora’s manager. As you have catapulted this issue into the press, then I consider it is reasonable for me to seek your confirmation by close of business on Wednesday 16 May 2012. If I do not receive your confirmation then you will receive a formal complaint from my solicitors followed by proceedings (including injunctive relief should they consider it necessary and appropriate). Of course there may well be issues of costs and damages associated with your actions and I put you on notice that I will be seeking these also if so advised.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards,

Frank

He's right

Frank Warren 1 BBBOC 0

it does still amaze me how badly some sporting organisations are run, i thought the fa were bad, looks like the bbboc are vieing for the title

This is why the fight has been made.

Warren wasn't going to make the fight if it was going to cause him trouble. The fight was probably agreed in principle between Haye and chisora shortly after munich and since then warren has been going Over it countless times to see if he has done something wrong

Over a barrel.

This makes the BBBofC look like they have absolutely no clue wha they're doing!


Oh wait.

Warren TKO3 BBBofC. Best thing fish-eyes has done since stepping in front of that bullet.

Frank has got the board in a corner now

My concern is that by issuing the threat contained in your press release you are trying to stop me from being involved in a legitimate and lawful fight governed by another Federation and to interfere with my freedom to work and to earn a living. I am worried that you have taken this decision not because you are really concerned about the fight (for the reasons I set out above) but because you are fearful that you will lose your monopoly in the UK

That's about it. EU laws over-ride anything the BBBC can say in any court. One thing about Frank, he doesn't like authority (unless its his). I remember when he broke the cartel of Astaire and Duff back in the day.

I hope the BBBC do maintain their mononoply in the UK. The last thing we need is other Europeon boards constantly sanctioning fights here and putting the BBBC in jeopardy. Imagine no British title or even worse, imagine a rival title in Britain called the UK Champion or something like that.

Well played Frank gotta say, you just made them look like UTTER mugs.

Atila wrote:I hope the BBBC do maintain their mononoply in the UK. The last thing we need is other Europeon boards constantly sanctioning fights here and putting the BBBC in jeopardy. Imagine no British title or even worse, imagine a rival title in Britain called the UK Champion or something like that.

As long as we see quality fights I dont care.

azania wrote:

Atila wrote:I hope the BBBC do maintain their mononoply in the UK. The last thing we need is other Europeon boards constantly sanctioning fights here and putting the BBBC in jeopardy. Imagine no British title or even worse, imagine a rival title in Britain called the UK Champion or something like that.

As long as we see quality fights I dont care.

As long as it's a good fight then anything goes?

More or less. Belts are meaningless with too many sanctioning bodies all wanting more money.

The one good thing about British title fights is that the title is NOT meaningless. It means a hell of a lot to all involved AND we regularly get to see the best domestic fighters fighting for the Lonsdale belts.

This is a massive can of worms Warren has opened, I hope we don't lose our decent domestic scene on the back of him staging what is, and let's be honest, an excellent match up.

KingMonkey wrote:The one good thing about British title fights is that the title is NOT meaningless. It means a hell of a lot to all involved AND we regularly get to see the best domestic fighters fighting for the Lonsdale belts.

This is a massive can of worms Warren has opened, I hope we don't lose our decent domestic scene on the back of him staging what is, and let's be honest, an excellent match up.

I like your post.

The only part I disagree with is the excellent match up part. The fact that they fought at a press conference doesn't make me think what an excellent match up this is. For me, an excellent match up is one between two excellent fighters where I'm not totally sure who's going to win. Haye and Chisora are not excellent fighters in any way and Haye seems to be the heavy favourite. It wasn't too long ago that Chisora was losing to Tyson Fury.

I've got a gut feeling this fight will be another Audley Harrison type of fight, plenty of promise but nothing special.

Yeah good old Frank...........Jigged it so a scumbag who spits in a guy's face and assaults somebody before getting arrested for something else gets off scot-free!!!!!!!!

Forgetting that have you guys seen Chisora fight????

He's a boring stinker...............It's a dull fight anyway.........

You're going to be disappointed....Haye by easy decision..

Atila wrote:

KingMonkey wrote:The one good thing about British title fights is that the title is NOT meaningless. It means a hell of a lot to all involved AND we regularly get to see the best domestic fighters fighting for the Lonsdale belts.

This is a massive can of worms Warren has opened, I hope we don't lose our decent domestic scene on the back of him staging what is, and let's be honest, an excellent match up.

I like your post.

The only part I disagree with is the excellent match up part. The fact that they fought at a press conference doesn't make me think what an excellent match up this is. For me, an excellent match up is one between two excellent fighters where I'm not totally sure who's going to win. Haye and Chisora are not excellent fighters in any way and Haye seems to be the heavy favourite. It wasn't too long ago that Chisora was losing to Tyson Fury.

I've got a gut feeling this fight will be another Audley Harrison type of fight, plenty of promise but nothing special.

Come on Atila... A blind man could see we are getting much more than Haye V Fraudley!! Granted Dereck lost to Fury, we have to take into account Del Boys state in that fight and what he has done since and his conditioning since then. Was robbed by of the EU Title and put up arguably a stronger showing than Haye did on his ventures.... Got to also take into account the styles, one fast Heavy boxing on the back foot and the other a shorter strong fighter who pressures quickly with bad blood involved all around? When have we seen that before...?

There may be no genuine animosity for Haye and he sees this as a business deal but we can be DAMN sure it ain't for Dereck, sure he wants money, who doesn't for what he's doing? But he really does want to put David in a world of pain.

Why would Haye Chisore be exciting ????

Guy lost to Fury, Helenius and Vitali........

Why are you excited about this?????

Don't get it............at all..........it's an easy stinker for Haye!!!

Now if Haye was fighting Price or Fury I'd raise an eyebrow.........

Chisora is garbage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TRUSS if people want to watch this joke of a fight then let them it will go dow i history alongside Galento v a Kangeroo.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Why would Haye Chisore be exciting ????

Guy lost to Fury, Helenius and Vitali........

Why are you excited about this?????

Don't get it............at all..........it's an easy stinker for Haye!!!

Now if Haye was fighting Price or Fury I'd raise an eyebrow.........

Chisora is garbage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't watch and quit complaining if it's so poor.

Pure and simple, then that gives you more time to sit and think of more reasons as to why Sven Ottke is a great.

KingMonkey wrote:The one good thing about British title fights is that the title is NOT meaningless. It means a hell of a lot to all involved AND we regularly get to see the best domestic fighters fighting for the Lonsdale belts.

This is a massive can of worms Warren has opened, I hope we don't lose our decent domestic scene on the back of him staging what is, and let's be honest, an excellent match up.

When you get smany high profile fighters not fighting for the belt because its not in their career path, it renders it meaningless.

EDIT - Maybe not meaningless, but not as good as it once was. I believe Bruno was the first who started the trend. I dont think Khan fought for it.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Why would Haye Chisore be exciting ????

Guy lost to Fury, Helenius and Vitali........

Why are you excited about this?????

Don't get it............at all..........it's an easy stinker for Haye!!!

Now if Haye was fighting Price or Fury I'd raise an eyebrow.........

Chisora is garbage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you think he lost to Helenuis, please don't use 10-1-1 again.

Soon Frank will have the Luxembourg Commission in his pocket and he will call all the shots and replace the British Title with a WBO bauble.

The fragmentation of boxing hasn't been good. Frank will make it worse. We know he doesn't care about fans or the sport. He is a ruthless businessman who has no problem with ripping the heart out of boxing.


Trussy's right for once about Chisora being garbage and the fight having stinker written all over it. Very much doubt it will be worth a £15 purchase.

Franks also trying to say he has sold 20,000 tickets in the first day of sales. More garbage.

azania wrote:

KingMonkey wrote:The one good thing about British title fights is that the title is NOT meaningless. It means a hell of a lot to all involved AND we regularly get to see the best domestic fighters fighting for the Lonsdale belts.

This is a massive can of worms Warren has opened, I hope we don't lose our decent domestic scene on the back of him staging what is, and let's be honest, an excellent match up.

When you get smany high profile fighters not fighting for the belt because its not in their career path, it renders it meaningless.

EDIT - Maybe not meaningless, but not as good as it once was. I believe Bruno was the first who started the trend. I dont think Khan fought for it.

Bruno didn't fight for the British title because his management for most of his career were intend on matching him with tomato can fighters. Lennox Lewis who was a better fighter than Bruno and came after Bruno took all the domestic belts seriously and even won his Lonsdale belt outright. As for Khan, I'm not sure why he didn't fight for the British title. However that's not the point. Just because a few fighters who have plenty of money behind them decide not to fight for the British title doesn't lessen the title in many peoples eyes. Fighters like Khan and Bruno don't represent the majority of fighters. The British title is important to many fighters to help them work there way to the top.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Atila wrote:

KingMonkey wrote:The one good thing about British title fights is that the title is NOT meaningless. It means a hell of a lot to all involved AND we regularly get to see the best domestic fighters fighting for the Lonsdale belts.

This is a massive can of worms Warren has opened, I hope we don't lose our decent domestic scene on the back of him staging what is, and let's be honest, an excellent match up.

I like your post.

The only part I disagree with is the excellent match up part. The fact that they fought at a press conference doesn't make me think what an excellent match up this is. For me, an excellent match up is one between two excellent fighters where I'm not totally sure who's going to win. Haye and Chisora are not excellent fighters in any way and Haye seems to be the heavy favourite. It wasn't too long ago that Chisora was losing to Tyson Fury.

I've got a gut feeling this fight will be another Audley Harrison type of fight, plenty of promise but nothing special.

Come on Atila... A blind man could see we are getting much more than Haye V Fraudley!! Granted Dereck lost to Fury, we have to take into account Del Boys state in that fight and what he has done since and his conditioning since then. Was robbed by of the EU Title and put up arguably a stronger showing than Haye did on his ventures.... Got to also take into account the styles, one fast Heavy boxing on the back foot and the other a shorter strong fighter who pressures quickly with bad blood involved all around? When have we seen that before...?

There may be no genuine animosity for Haye and he sees this as a business deal but we can be DAMN sure it ain't for Dereck, sure he wants money, who doesn't for what he's doing? But he really does want to put David in a world of pain.

It just seems to me Alex is that all this fight has going for it is the fact that they were involved in a punch up at a press conference. Is that all it takes these days to satisfy everyone? It's like people who get excited watching a movie because there's plenty of explosions in it.

Gotta love the moral brigage. Worships a guy who staged an assault in a carpark, in Larry Holmes. But has an issue with Haye. Kettle and pot seems an appropriate phrase.
The BBBC have foolishly tried to close the door after the horse has ran to luxemburg.
I don't see what will be wrong with the Haye fight, I see a Haye KO in 6. What's not exciting about the big men pounding on each other, this is no Audley fight, styles makefights and these guys are meeting each other swinging in the centre of the ring.
The same people praising Chirosa for his performance against Vitiali slag him for his fatty performance against fury. I expect this to be like a Haye crusier weight fight, yes the circumstances around the why its occuring aren't ideal, but that doesn't mean this won't be entertaining.

Alright Jim,

Sorry but I don't see Haye swinging in the centre of the ring. It's never been his style and especially not at HW.

Haye has a problem with HW power and will be as wary as he has been in previous fights imo.

Who worships Larry Holmes? I think most people like or just respect the man because for 7 years he ruled the heavyweight division. I liked Holmes but if he had had his license suspended for assaulting a man in a car park I wouldn't agree with a promoter finding a loop hole for Holmes to fight in the same country that suspended him. I don't think Holmes was ever suspended for that incident. Different country different rules.

Hi strongback, a little worse for wear at this hour. But I see haye being less cautious, more in line with his Ruiz fight. I think the fact that they are similar sizes and the fact that he goes into it know he's not overmatched.

Atila, Trussy is the Holmes worshiper, And holmes v Berbick is my reference. By morale brigage, I actually ment trussy. I can see the viewpoint of other people being appalled, but don't agree with hypocracy.

Atila wrote:

azania wrote:

KingMonkey wrote:The one good thing about British title fights is that the title is NOT meaningless. It means a hell of a lot to all involved AND we regularly get to see the best domestic fighters fighting for the Lonsdale belts.

This is a massive can of worms Warren has opened, I hope we don't lose our decent domestic scene on the back of him staging what is, and let's be honest, an excellent match up.

When you get smany high profile fighters not fighting for the belt because its not in their career path, it renders it meaningless.

EDIT - Maybe not meaningless, but not as good as it once was. I believe Bruno was the first who started the trend. I dont think Khan fought for it.

Bruno didn't fight for the British title because his management for most of his career were intend on matching him with tomato can fighters. Lennox Lewis who was a better fighter than Bruno and came after Bruno took all the domestic belts seriously and even won his Lonsdale belt outright. As for Khan, I'm not sure why he didn't fight for the British title. However that's not the point. Just because a few fighters who have plenty of money behind them decide not to fight for the British title doesn't lessen the title in many peoples eyes. Fighters like Khan and Bruno don't represent the majority of fighters. The British title is important to many fighters to help them work there way to the top.

I think you will find that Lewis fought for the British title to make him more accepted in these shores. Many had him as a Canadian.

As for Bruno not fighting for the British title, the domestic was full of tomato cans so it wouldn't have made a difference.

The BBBC only have themselves to blame I think. Crucially, I believe Warren is correct when he says the real objection from the BBBC is that their authority is under threat, rather than a moral outrage.

Essentially it looks like the BBBC just wanted to make Chisora someone elses problem until the fuss had died down. If the fight was happening in Luxembourg they wouldnt care.

Theyve already made themselves look like incompetant amateurs in how they delt with Chisora and the more they try to act I think the more its going to become apparent they dont really have a leg to stand on.

Morally, Warren may not be right but is it really much different from most professional services firms who are regular hired to exploit legal loopholes in this manner? And as Warren says himself, his primary obligation is to his client.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Why would Haye Chisore be exciting ????

Guy lost to Fury, Helenius and Vitali........

Why are you excited about this?????

Don't get it............at all..........it's an easy stinker for Haye!!!

Now if Haye was fighting Price or Fury I'd raise an eyebrow.........

Chisora is garbage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To be honest you gotta asterisk two of those losses, at least one. Turned up like my fat cleaner for the Fury fight, got robbed by Helenius and gave Vitali the hardest fight he's had since Lennox. Not bad going for three losses. I think it will be a good fight and cheering on Dereck. He's no angel but David Haye is the biggest t***pot the sport has seen in quite a while. Go Dereck!

I take it you're not a Haye fan then.

Neither fighter has any class and neither fighter ever does more than what the mouth says. Who cares. Watching these clowns beat the crap out of each other in the ring will be good fun (cracks open another can of cider)

Steffan wrote:Neither fighter has any class and neither fighter ever does more than what the mouth says. Who cares. Watching these clowns beat the crap out of each other in the ring will be good fun (cracks open another can of cider)

azania wrote:I take it you're not a Haye fan then.

To be honest Haye is just low and there's nothing nice about him. He's gobby and not funny to go with it. Nasty and not clever with it. Chisora is a headcase and you gotta see the funny side in that. He's the kinda guy that would do well in nightschool and be able to hold down a proper job if he didn't explode the moment someone looks at him funny. Saying that I would not wish for Del Boy to move in next door to me though.

Good on Frank. The BBBoC are clueless their punishment of Chisora was a farce. They left themselves wide open to this. Warren has broke no rules and will have European law on his side so good luck to the board with punishing him because he will sue them and probably bankrupt them.

The BBBC really haven't got a clue on this one. Smith looked plain embarrassed about the whole matter on Ringside the other night.

They've made two allmighty balls-ups. First was not giving Chisora a definitive ban. No way could a Haye v Chisora fight be made with the BBBC if no one knew when exactly Chisora would get his license back.

Secondly, after Frank had announced that the Lexembourg commision were taking over rather than just voice their dissaprovement and move on, the board errupted with all this nonsence about banning everyone for life. The Chisora/Haye fight is a one off, afterwards Frank would have gone back to using the BBBC as per usual. Now they've backed him into a corner, which might result in him creating his own British Boxing comission, ruining the BBBC's credibility.