Ulster squad additions

First topic message reminder :

You did not imagine that - it was said. A few weeks ago too.

The Ferry journey will be epic I'm sure! ... just double check on the Ryanair flight, not 100%.

Rodders,

Will you go and convince Stag that the last match at Ravenhill was a sellout!

The beeb have the attendance at 10,500 but you could only get a ticket for the Memorial end, remember?

Oh I remember all right .... was it just shy of a sellout though? The promenade and Terrace were sold out anyways......

Where is that rascal stag?......

Nice work from the airport!
http://img.ly/inYN

There were only a couple of tickets left for anywhere in the ground. There certainly were not 1,400 empty seats!

geoff998rugby wrote:He has said he knows who sent it not that he knows someone who he thinks sent it - an important distinction.

At the very least he should man up go to Lam, apologise to his face, and say he is sorry for the upset it has caused his family, which apparantly it has.

That is not too much to ask and would give he some credibility and dignity from the affair.
If not it leave the impression we have a coach who bottles the hard decision - not good.

Very true, Geoff.

In my view, there are a number of measures by which a man's character is judged. One of which is by the company that he keeps. If one of Anscombe's "pals" thought that it would be acceptable to send such a text to Pat Lam (regardless of whether it was meant as a joke or not) then what does that say about Anscombe?

I'm not calling for a reversal of the decision to hire him, but I want to see him step up to the mark and deal with this in a very public and apologetic way. He needs to demonstrate that he will do the right thing, even if it means taking uncomfortable decisions - both in personal and rugby-related matters.

clivemcl wrote:
We don't sing GSTQ anymore, we do pick catholics now, don't think that flag is still there (I've never seen it anyway).

Nobody is arguing people should have supported us back then, just that they should support us now.

Also, the case isnt that Catholics arent interested in rugby. Thats a seperate topic. The issue is that ulster born and bred rugby fans support a non ulster team.

People who know anything about rugby will know Ravenhill is not the same place it was 20 yrs ago.

I think more effort should be made to get nationalist politicians to go to Ulster matches and get as much publicity around it as possible.

They shout from the rooftops when this kind of thing happens in football and GAA yet I couldnt tell you if anyone from Sinn Fein or SDLP has ever been to an Ulster match.

Also, i think the facts show that rugby was way ahead of the game in its relaxing of who was or wasn't allowed to play compared with the GAA. Although it is saddening to think this was ever the case at UR.

Well said, Clive.

As a Tyrone man living in Dublin/Kildare for 15 years (and married to a Sligo woman, for her sins...), I see rugby as a magnificent example of inclusiveness on this island. I travel up to Ravenhill after work on a Friday night 6-10 times every season as well as going to the away games against the other 3 provinces. While I love my team, I have two sons who will be encouraged to play all sports - GAA, rugby, even soccer - and if they have an interest in those, they'll be encouraged to support Kildare & Leinster. In my opinion it would be out of order for them to follow Tyrone/Sligo or Ulster/Connacht instead. They're born & bred southerners, I'm a born & bred northerner (yes, I know they'll be jealous ).

Of course, in the very remote chance that either becomes good enough to play rugby professionally, as his agent, I'll only be listening to offers from the direction of Ravenhill

Just back from the game and have made my opinion on Paddy at 10.

Put into the Lions den. What Ian was doing sitting on the bench is beyond me. Overall pretty disappointing performance, never looked like we were going to win that and like I said poor player management from Ulster Branch/IRFU left a young pup dead in the water.
More of the same next season I presume.

Don't care what anyone says ihump is a quality 10 and should never have been let go and should have started.

Jay I'm very drunk at the minute but you need to wise the feck up.

Poor Paddy jackson. Seriously the poor lad. Horrible to do that to him in retrospect.

Was it iHumphs fault for saying he was leaving out of the blue? No

In fairness this has made me see why (sadly) BML had to go. Either Jackson should have been used a lot more prior to a month ago, or we should have perservered with iHumph regardless of his departure.

To show faith in the lad for the final was a gamble. If it went well, it could have catapulted him. But alas it went the opposite and now Europe is talking about the young guy who had a 'meltdown'.

I really hope the management and players give him support and help him bounce back stronger.

The kneejerk reaction is to say we definatly need to get an NIQ10. But that is probably my anger talking. Probably my desire out of hurt to be capable of teaching Leinster a lesson.

Rome wasn't built in a day. I'm not sure the poor performance was completly talent related. It seemed to be mental. A new coach could be the last piece of the puzzle.

I've had two hours sleep, this is probably gibberish.

Seriously dissppointed in Terblanche. I'm sure he is deeply annoyed with himself. Bit of a Zidane moment there.

Paddy Jackson will come back stronger from this; I think we show faith in him and back him to come good. I also don't think we have the budget to pair a top 10 with our top 9.

We need to build the young man back up, build his confidence back up and he will show us why he was starting in a Heineken Cup final aged 20. I'm sure of it. Like Rory McIlroys meltdown at the masters was the making of him, we'll make surer this is the making of Paddy Jackson.

I do believe we need a new coach to bring us to the next level, and nurture the young talent we have. I also think we need a partial replacement for Ferris unfortunately. He's going to play less and less. He's on one leg, playing through the pain barrier and the Irish management show every sign of wanting to run him into the ground this summer.

We can't put our hands over our eyes and pretend he's going to keep going as long as some other backrowers in world rugby.

Feel very strongly we need to get Jackson playing as much rugby as possible next year and we will be rewarded. This is no time to panic- our emergency option is Pienaar at 10. Not a bad one at all. We have a top class halfback in Pienaar to mentor Paddy the younger, he needs no other mentor. Where do you get confidence, experience? From playing.

Because we've signed great players Ulster fans think we can solve every problem with the chequebook. Unfortunately we can't. Because the provincial system is geared to national success and we can only have a few imports we MUST develop players. Our biggest problem is at 10 and has been since Humphreys Snr. retired- the only solution, the only possible fix, is to identify a homegrown successor who will take us through the next decade.

We need to stick with Jackson and build back his confidence. We can't call for his head on the basis of one off game. He is 20 years old, and how many times has he started for Ulster now? Single digits? Not sure, but we really have to show faith in him. He is a talented player, there is no doubt, and he can learn SO much from that game, if he doesn't just focus on his own mistakes. I hope and think he will come back from this. We need to give our support!

Go on PJ!

http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv/?play=media&id=11984

Lads remember ROG had a howler in his first HC final. Jackson will get better just calm down for a minute.

Notch wrote: I also think we need a partial replacement for Ferris unfortunately. He's going to play less and less. He's on one leg, playing through the pain barrier and the Irish management show every sign of wanting to run him into the ground this summer.

Unfair Notch - in that the player himself wouldn't have it any other way. He wants to be on the team, he knows he'll be asked to put his body on the line because that's why he's on the team - to play hard, to play his game, to give Ireland everything to get that elusive one victory over the best side in world (hopefully even more than one if one comes! ) But it's unfair to Ferris and the Irish management to suggest what they'll be doing to him, or what he'll be doing to himself, will not come with the utmost approval of the man himself.

Ulster have had a final, their first in a long time. The experience will do them good - even the bitterness of defeat will work through their systems next season and toughen their contours. New coach, new horizons, building ON the work done this year, not falling off that platform. Jackson too. Of course he should be still believed in. A young man, first HC final, against arguably the best European side of them all. Invaluable experience at such a young age. You bank things like that and hope for dividends in the years to come.

Sorry Fly, I didn't mean to imply that. I just think he needs to be managed. Ferris would never want to go anything less than 100%. He'd play every day of the week of he could.

I'm just worried that he needs a break. His form since Thomond Park has depreciated noticeably. He looks to be playing through the pain barrier. I'm sure the medical staff will manage him carefully but this tour isn't worth knocking time off his career.

Thomond wrote:Lads remember ROG had a howler in his first HC final. Jackson will get better just calm down for a minute.

It's true. Still, it wouldn't be Ulster fans if we weren't having knee jerk reactions

20 years old like. He could have 15 years of top level rugby ahead of him if he's managed well. I think, despite the mistakes he made, he has the necessary mental strength to bounce back. There's no doubt starting week in and out in the Pro12 will help him mature a lot. He needs gametime most of all.

I don't think our other forthcoming signings this year will be THAT impressive. A new Irish qualified 10 on not much money, most likely Niall O'Connor, and a backrow forward on less than Wannenburg so hopefully Humphreys unearths a rough diamond from somewhere.

Notch wrote:

I'm just worried that he [Ferris] needs a break. His form since Thomond Park has depreciated noticeably. He looks to be playing through the pain barrier. I'm sure the medical staff will manage him carefully but this tour isn't worth knocking time off his career.

Valid point Notch, and I can see fatigue in more than him too. For me, Redden seems to be closing on the natual end to his season. The pace that Leinster play at, even though he often orchestrates it, seems to have dragged every last ounce of conditioning out of him. He's making mistakes now based on puff rather than bad mental decisions.

But for me, International is where it's at - for me certainly but also I'm sure for many of the players - tired and all as they are. Ferris would be growling menacingly in the background if Ulster wanted to protect him from the travails of New Zealand. So the tired and injury niggled bodies will be there in New Zealand and maybe we'll all suffer a little Provincially at the beginning of next season because of it. But these players have a limited life and, thankfully, they're greedy and want it all.

Notch wrote:Go on PJ!

http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv/?play=media&id=11984

I think you got a mention in there! Someone definatly said Notch!

Looking forward to seeing the Ulster players involved versus the baa baas. Best way to get over defeat is to look to future hope!

Thats why I'm glad Paddy J. is going to the 20s RWC. He'll get to get right back on the horse, plus he's Captain and place kicker. It's what he needs.

I was worried when I saw Ferris in the warm up!

Usually he has the biggest smile on his face at those times. Not yesterday.

I really think he needs a break.

He is unlikely to get one anytime soon. He is likely to play in the barbarians game too, as is Rory Best.

I think that is a mistake Rory but I hope I'm wrong.

Mind you, this time last year I wasn't at all convinced we'd still have him playing now!

I think we're tempting fate by including him for that game. Seems ludicrous. Best should Captain, sure, but Ferris? Could use a break.

Notch wrote:Thats why I'm glad Paddy J. is going to the 20s RWC. He'll get to get right back on the horse, plus he's Captain and place kicker. It's what he needs.

I would argue the exact opposite!

Ireland have no chance at the JWC and are likely to ship a couple of heavy defeats. PJ will be trying his utmost to show he is a decent player but how will he do that in a losing team? Worse than that he will be thrust into the spotlight as captain doing interviews and being reminded of the HEC final, if he makes any mistakes. There were calls during the 6N to replace him with Hanrahan or Marsh, so if he is pulled ashore by Ruddock during a game his confidence will suffer another dent.

It would have been far better for him to let the furore die down over a quiet summer and for him to start pre-season with everyone else to help him bed in quickly. Ulster should have pulled him out of the squad (as Leicester did with George Ford) when they had the chance, but of course can't pull him out now.

No. As fly-half there will be interviews, pressure and tough situations for all of his career. The more pressure he is under in the 20s the more he will learn and he will need to learn how to deal with the press as well.

He got knocked down yesterday, this is where he starts getting back up. A long summer spent licking his wounds and dwelling on the pain of Twickenham is tough. But as Captain of the 20s he has no time to feel sorry for himself. He has to jet out to South Africa walk into the team room and inspire his peers to give everything they have for their country. That tends to focus the mind.

In fairness listening to that interview put my mind at rest a lot. He sounds a fairly level headed yet confident lad who is under no illusions. He didnt sound embarassed or ashamed or worried that he was under scrutiny. Neither did he feel the need to excuse anything away. He just sounded like he knew he was only 20 and was thrown into the deep end, but was glad to be there and hopeful of better.

My feelings from the interview are that he will be ok mentally!

I won't lie about yesterday, I was pretty damn drunk. There will be plenty of time to chew over the match, but poor Paddy Jackson just looked like a guy that needed a big hug from his mum. Just like Rory McIlory at the Masters last season. This is the test for Jackson- what sort of character has it got. If this one match knocks him and he goes backwards unable to deal with the pressure and expectation then he doesn't have the fortitude to be a professional sportsman. I have no doubt he will bounce back, learn from it and come back all the better for it. He will not get one ounce of blamed from me for the lose yesterday. He was thrown in at the deep end and it was sink or swim. He sank. It happens, and it is the nature of sport. MacLaughlin made a very brave call with him for the semi-final and final and unfortunately it didn't pay off. At least we had a coach who was not afraid to roll the dice from time to time when something wasn't quite working.

... except that it was a player revolt over Humphreys' lack of defence that forced PJ into the frame rather than McL suddenly thinking he was ready. A brave call by McLaughlin would have been to start Ian.

Whilst I believe Paddy Jackson will bounce back and be a great player, i have to agree with Aukster. Like i said earlier. If iHumph dropped a bombshell and UR had no idea it was coming, it was probably too late in the season to expect Jackson to steph up with limited game time. They should have saw it out with Humph (since they hadnt given jackson gametime ealier in the season).

To me, whilst BML deserves full credit for his sterling job, its little things like this that reassure me that hiring a new coach is (hopefully) for the best.

Actually in fairness, part of the reason BML hadnt given Jackson much gametime was because Marshall was doing wonders from the bench. Hard not to keep using Marshall as a sub with Ruan shifting to 10. It worked so well.

It was terrible management by UR to throw our young 10 to the lions as they did. iHump, for all his failings, was a cog in the machine that took us to the semi-final and the replacement cog just did not work. A gamble is fine to take in the Pro12 but not in our biggest moment in 13 years. I was livid when I saw he'd been selected, it simply was not right to do that to him when he'd had so little game time with Ulster. Do we pick on for or is it internal politics that decides the side. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!

Anyway, back to the real world and the future for Ulster which is exciting to say the least. PJ will definately be a different player this time next season when we have exacted our revenge and beaten Leinster in Dublin. Under the wing of St Ruan he will learn so much next season so it's all good.

I think its unfair Jackson and McLoughlin are getting so much stick, Jackson did ok he wasn't great and his missed kicks were poor but Pienaar wasn't great with his eithers.

It was a team effort getting there and it was a team effort losing the game. Big players didnt hit top form unlike Leinster who were simply fantastic and from my point of view I think with Leinster attacking like they did with Humphries in the team it could have been a lot easier.

About the only Ulster player to come out with an enhanced reputation was Cave but just shame for him O'Driscoll looked good on the other side

I'm beginning to have a real distaste for this mounting view that O'Driscoll - for the good of the Irish team and Irish rugby - should curl up and 'go away' somewhere (to be euphemistic about it). Or at least stop trying to steal the thunder of the young players coming through looking to compete to fill his shoes. It seems that he's stalling the train and many people seem not to like it.

I'm all for out with the old and in with the new. I argue for it week after week in terms of Irish players underperforming and younger players on the wings waiting eternally for the chance to prove they are better.

But that is the operative word - in O'Driscoll's position, none of the pretenders ARE proving they are better. It's unfortunate that the position happens to be taken by an absolute world great and rugby legend but them is the cards you're dealt. The 13 spot is the most challenging position in Irish rugby, and it is so because one man made it so and changed the face of it. The replacements have to prove they are capable of usurping him by being as good as if not better. But he keeps coming back and teaching.

And the main thing he teaches is Intent. No point in having the technical abilities for the role, it is the mood and the doggedness and the persistence and the uncompromising nature of his play that must be mimiced. Fire in the belly and a determination Not to be bettered on the day.

There are lot of things Ireland inc doesn't need right now...but I'm afraid O'Driscoll isn't one of them yet. The battle for his position continues on the wings.

Wrong thread fly?

Now would be a really nice time to announce some signings.

Sure would Clive and the perfect antidote to the weekend

Except I suspect they won't be names of much note. NOC is one of them.

I'm looking forward to seeing Payne next season.

Terblanche was/is leaving us somewhat of a hero. But sadly on his last professional game of his career, he was one of Ulsters poorest, and the yellow was a moment of utter stupidity.

Dont like saying it, but hopefully payne with a longer contract may grow to have a similar passion as muller and piennaar. He has been out for a year though.

Is there any chance Payne will head south on short term to play some S15? It might be helpful from an Ulster point of view.

clivemcl wrote:Wrong thread fly?

No clive. Not the wrong thread...the post above mine had this line:

"About the only Ulster player to come out with an enhanced reputation was Cave but just shame for him O'Driscoll looked good on the other side."

... which in my opinion was a veiled comment on the awkwardness of O'Driscoll still holding down the reputations of the players who would seek to replace him. So I commented on the comment.

SecretFly wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Wrong thread fly?

No clive. Not the wrong thread...the post above mine had this line:

"About the only Ulster player to come out with an enhanced reputation was Cave but just shame for him O'Driscoll looked good on the other side."

... which in my opinion was a veiled comment on the awkwardness of O'Driscoll still holding down the reputations of the players who would seek to replace him. So I commented on the comment.

Fly those mind reading powers of yours aren't what you think they are

My point was the opposite that O'Driscoll still is the man for the job no matter how good Cave is so let me preempt you and say apology accepted which is big of you to do publically

SecretFly wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Wrong thread fly?

No clive. Not the wrong thread...the post above mine had this line:

"About the only Ulster player to come out with an enhanced reputation was Cave but just shame for him O'Driscoll looked good on the other side."

... which in my opinion was a veiled comment on the awkwardness of O'Driscoll still holding down the reputations of the players who would seek to replace him. So I commented on the comment.

It was a rant based on a missinterpretation of a comment. Besides this is a thread about Ulster squad. We are allowed to praise or players arnt we?

Anyways, back to my point.

Is there any likelihood in getting Payne some games in the S15?

You don't know my mind as well as you think I don't I'm known to offer full and public apologies as easily as I bluster and waffle.

So the apology is genuine, profound and................. public. Sorry for misreading you. But you'll forgive me the oversight a little if you read as much of 606V2 as I do. For then you'll know 'O'Driscoll getting in the way' is a recurrent theme.

But like I say, on bended knee I do hereforth say sorry for the misinterpretation of your words.

Nobody is looking to put bod out to pasture.

The issue is that our 12 looks done internationally and of the youngsters coming though only the 13s look in anyway ready to step up. Does bod move then to guide them through. I would think that's a strong possibility.

This isn't about who is the best 13 but what is best for the Irish rugby team long term.

clivemcl wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Wrong thread fly?

No clive. Not the wrong thread...the post above mine had this line:

"About the only Ulster player to come out with an enhanced reputation was Cave but just shame for him O'Driscoll looked good on the other side."

... which in my opinion was a veiled comment on the awkwardness of O'Driscoll still holding down the reputations of the players who would seek to replace him. So I commented on the comment.

It was a rant based on a missinterpretation of a comment. Besides this is a thread about Ulster squad. We are allowed to praise or players arnt we?

Anyways, back to my point.

Is there any likelihood in getting Payne some games in the S15?

It wasn't a rant, it was a comment.

I'm happy...no need for rants. So maybe I should seek a public apology for a misinterpretation. But I'll let it lie, clive. You are more than welcome to praise your players and I'll retain my rights to comment. There - now we're both happy...ish.

No probs Fly. I do agree BOD is afar and away the best 13 and nothing else should be seriously considered...

BUT...

When he eventually comes to a grinding halt in a few years, despite an arm falling off mid match and kidney saying
"Can you not just kind of hold it on there with the ball tucked under you other arm"
Will we be turning our attention to the next 13 who has little or no gametime at international level?

I assume you agree that summer matches, autumn internationals etc should be used to

a) give Brian a rest and
b) give others some experience for the future.

This starts with the baa baas and i expect cave to play 13, and rightly so.

I dont want this Ulster squad thread to turn into a discussion on BOD though so lets not get carried away.

Standulstermen wrote:Nobody is looking to put bod out to pasture.

The issue is that our 12 looks done internationally and of the youngsters coming though only the 13s look in anyway ready to step up. Does bod move then to guide them through. I would think that's a strong possibility.

This isn't about who is the best 13 but what is best for the Irish rugby team long term.

I'd say it's more serious than that at the ranking we presently hold and where we're headed. It is unfortunately, due to mismanagement of resources by our coach, all about 13 and what is best right now for Irish rugby. Kidney has had his chance to use some years to blood alternatives but now he's in such a muddle we need O'Driscoll again to prop up our confidence levels.

Anyway, back to Ulster rugby...I've gatecrashed this one long enough.

I honestly do not think BOD would be the best option for Ireland at 13. He needs to play 12, where his abilities to create space will massively benefit his understudy at 13. At 13 we have so many options to choose from, we need to start blooding them.

On a side note tickets go on sale for next years final

Would it be tempting fate to snap a few up now?

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/finals/2013.php

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I honestly do not think BOD would be the best option for Ireland at 13. He needs to play 12, where his abilities to create space will massively benefit his understudy at 13. At 13 we have so many options to choose from, we need to start blooding them.

I never, ever see any of our alternatives offer anything like the complete picture 13 game that O'Driscoll does Rory. And I'm not being hard or tough on them. He just is something special - as an Irish player, I'm not claiming him as a Provincial player. As an Irish player, nobody comes close to his 13 levels. That's maybe me not wanting to admit we'll need a more human 13 in the future (hand up on that one) but I'm also realistic enough to know and hope O'Driscoll goes out on a high rather than linger and linger. I just think for now, he has nothing to prove to be on the plane to New Zealand and his alternatives still have so much to prove. That's just the way it pans out. The alternatives will be better for it though but they need to get their skates on. And personally, I'd like one alternative to even start playing in that position! Yep, I really think our future 13 isn't even playing in that position - yet.

Now that really IS all from me on this thread!