Ulster squad additions

First topic message reminder :

You did not imagine that - it was said. A few weeks ago too.

Now that thats over...

anyone else think Payne should go get some gametime in the Super 15?

No, he can get a full pre season with his new coach and teammates

When does pre-season start Stand?

Start of July? Genuinely don't know. I suspect the saffers, Afoa and those travelling to NZ might start late, especially the Irish lads.

Re: Ulster squad additions in light of Saturday's result and performance...

I think that when identifying future new signings that Humph & Logan need to concentrate on character as much as ability.

In my opinion, some of the Ulster players don't have the 'win at all costs' mentality that it takes to be a championship team at this level. Too many guys laughing and joking after the final whistle. I know that everybody displays their emotions differently, but I honestly think that too many of our players accepted defeat too easily. In my view, only Muller, Tuohy, Pienaar & Wallace seemed to be fighting against the inevitable....

Perhaps, in hindsight, we should have seen this by the way in which many of the team celebrated the semi-final victory in Lansdowne Road.

I know that is an opinion which will be heavily disputed on here and I accept that. But my question is - does this squad have the mentality to be champions?

Compare that with Leinster. Of course, anyone can look good on a dominant, winning team but I just think that they have more players with a "defeat is not an option" mentality. In particular, Brad Thorn, O'Driscoll, Nacewa and even D'arcy (and I'm not a fan of his) have that in bucketloads.

I hope Anscombe brings some steel and more than a hint of nastiness to Ulster's play next season. We need to become more like the Springboks with a "nobody likes us and we don't care" attitude to our opponents. On Saturday, we gave Leinster too much respect before, during and after the game. If we played them again next Saturday, I honestly think the result would be the same - and in my opinion, that's a damning indictment of the current squad.

Make no mistake, we have improved a great deal in recent seasons, and that's to be applauded and celebrated. But if Logan, Humph & co. want to build a champion, then we are only at base camp. There's a long way to go to the summit and not everyone in the party is going to make it.

Why should it be ok to move BOD from 13 to 12 when it's not ok to move Cave from 13 to 12?

The Great Aukster wrote:Why should it be ok to move BOD from 13 to 12 when it's not ok to move Cave from 13 to 12?

Because BOD has the rugby brain and vision to play there and excel- he will create space for Cave and orchestrate things. We also lack an international class 12. All our best centres are 13s.

George Hook just called Marshall Maxwell on the radio.

Wendy Austin doesnt understand anything he's saying.

And here we go with the NIQ rant. Classic George

We are talking about moving one of the top three players in the pro era in one position because he has the nous to play there. Is it fair to bring a new, youngster into the setup and pay him out of position?

This isn't about shifting bod, it is about having a plan in place for when the great man calls it a day. As it is the only other player we have seen there is earls and most agree he is a natural winger.

It's not about insulting bod or saying he isnt deserving of the 13 shirt. It is about planning for when can't rely on him anymore, and that time is coming fast.

Precisely. There are no 12s putting their hand up and plenty of 13s. So blood a 13 now.

Rugby has never been about picking your best possible in every position. The end of the matter is this. The sum total of a team with 12-BOD and 13-Cave is better than the sum total of a team with 12-Darcy/Wallace and 13.BOD.

INDISPUTABLE

Notch wrote:Precisely. There are no 12s putting their hand up and plenty of 13s. So blood a 13 now.

Or force some of the players who think they are 13s........ (more of them than real ones methinks) to try 12?

12 seems to be the one Kidney is having difficulty with not 13...for now.

Earls is going to 'demand' to play 13 when the new coach arrives. Good luck with that one Keith but it shows you that Ireland have some pretty determined players who WANT that shirt! They'll never all get there.

UlsterinKildare wrote:In my opinion, some of the Ulster players don't have the 'win at all costs' mentality that it takes to be a championship team at this level. Too many guys laughing and joking after the final whistle. I know that everybody displays their emotions differently, but I honestly think that too many of our players accepted defeat too easily. In my view, only Muller, Tuohy, Pienaar & Wallace seemed to be fighting against the inevitable....

UiK your post have beern of high quality but I think the above is deeply insulting to the likes of Best, Cave, Afoa and others and is complete and utter bunk

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:Precisely. There are no 12s putting their hand up and plenty of 13s. So blood a 13 now.

Or force some of the players who think they are 13s........ (more of them than real ones methinks) to try 12?

12 seems to be the one Kidney is having difficulty with not 13...for now.

Earls is going to 'demand' to play 13 when the new coach arrives. Good luck with that one Keith but it shows you that Ireland have some pretty determined players who WANT that shirt! They'll never all get there.

Considering he has been pushed about all his career to facilitate others, he has earned the right to 'demand' whatever shirt he wants. Hopefully he will get it, because if he doesn't Zebo won't be getting gametime and Munster will be searching for a new 13 in 2 years time when Casey will have to move on.

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:Precisely. There are no 12s putting their hand up and plenty of 13s. So blood a 13 now.

Or force some of the players who think they are 13s........ (more of them than real ones methinks) to try 12?

12 seems to be the one Kidney is having difficulty with not 13...for now.

Earls is going to 'demand' to play 13 when the new coach arrives. Good luck with that one Keith but it shows you that Ireland have some pretty determined players who WANT that shirt! They'll never all get there.

The thing is, take Ulster for example. Cave wouldnt be a better 12 than Wallace. So how could Ireland think Cave should play 12??

Like I said before, the sum total of a team with 12-BOD and 13-Cave is better than the sum total of a team with 12-Darcy/Wallace and 13.BOD.

I dont understand how people could dispute this.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:Precisely. There are no 12s putting their hand up and plenty of 13s. So blood a 13 now.

Or force some of the players who think they are 13s........ (more of them than real ones methinks) to try 12?

12 seems to be the one Kidney is having difficulty with not 13...for now.

Earls is going to 'demand' to play 13 when the new coach arrives. Good luck with that one Keith but it shows you that Ireland have some pretty determined players who WANT that shirt! They'll never all get there.

Considering he has been pushed about all his career to facilitate others, he has earned the right to 'demand' whatever shirt he wants. Hopefully he will get it, because if he doesn't Zebo won't be getting gametime and Munster will be searching for a new 13 in 2 years time when Casey will have to move on.

Well, hopefully he does and more importantly for Munster and Ireland, hopefully it works out. I'm not in the giggle camp when it comes to Munster's seeming decline. I want it up there and fighting fit again for honours in Pro12 AND more importantly HC. If Earls is part of all that and in turn part of Ireland's regrowth as a team to be reckoned with then here's to Earls and his number 13.

clivemcl wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:Precisely. There are no 12s putting their hand up and plenty of 13s. So blood a 13 now.

Or force some of the players who think they are 13s........ (more of them than real ones methinks) to try 12?

12 seems to be the one Kidney is having difficulty with not 13...for now.

Earls is going to 'demand' to play 13 when the new coach arrives. Good luck with that one Keith but it shows you that Ireland have some pretty determined players who WANT that shirt! They'll never all get there.

The thing is, take Ulster for example. Cave wouldnt be a better 12 than Wallace. So how could Ireland think Cave should play 12??

Like I said before, the sum total of a team with 12-BOD and 13-Cave is better than the sum total of a team with 12-Darcy/Wallace and 13.BOD.

I dont understand how people could dispute this.

Not disputing it...just questioning the overall credentials of any of the proposals for 13. I just need to do my homework and concentrate more on the merits of Cave. I've probably been slack in that department, I'll admit that. Promise to give all these guys a better scan next season.

Given the make up of the Irish squad Earls will be playing wing in New Zealand.

Spoke to Simon Danielli before the match and he confirmed that his retirement has been forced by repeated hamstring and back injuries.

Little birdy told me we struggling to find the right backrower

Also another little whisper than a Cave (12), Bowe (13) combo is under consideration for next year - will try and confirm. Has Kidney asked us to give this a go ? - does he see it as possibility in the post D'Arcy/BOD era ?

Wing would be will covered by Earls, Fitzpatrick, Zebo, Kearney jr and Gilroy

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:Precisely. There are no 12s putting their hand up and plenty of 13s. So blood a 13 now.

Or force some of the players who think they are 13s........ (more of them than real ones methinks) to try 12?

12 seems to be the one Kidney is having difficulty with not 13...for now.

Earls is going to 'demand' to play 13 when the new coach arrives. Good luck with that one Keith but it shows you that Ireland have some pretty determined players who WANT that shirt! They'll never all get there.

Considering he has been pushed about all his career to facilitate others, he has earned the right to 'demand' whatever shirt he wants. Hopefully he will get it, because if he doesn't Zebo won't be getting gametime and Munster will be searching for a new 13 in 2 years time when Casey will have to move on.

Earned the right? You earn the right when you play better than all other options in that position. Stamping your feet and demanding to play in this or that position is not earning the right. In fact, that is pretty childish behaviour. Earls is not bigger than his team.

geoff999rugby wrote:Given the make up of the Irish squad Earls will be playing wing in New Zealand.

Spoke to Simon Danielli before the match and he confirmed that his retirement has been forced by repeated hamstring and back injuries.

Little birdy told me we struggling to find the right backrower

Also another little whisper than a Cave (12), Bowe (13) combo is under consideration for next year - will try and confirm. Has Kidney asked us to give this a go ? - does he see it as possibility in the post D'Arcy/BOD era ?

Wing would be will covered by Earls, Fitzpatrick, Zebo, Kearney jr and Gilroy

Moving a prop to the wing things are getting desperate!

Bowes a potent force on the wing is it really a good idea to shift him? Caves shown he can do it at 13 would Spence at 12 not be a better long term option? And what does it mean for Marshall if hes got Cave and Wallace ahead of him?

I am not a fan of all the experimenting and moving people around the place. There are a few players who are good at numerous positions, and probably haven't found their "true" position, but they will have to soon. I would not be happy with a Cave-Bowe partnership. We have two brilliant 12s in Wallace and Marshall, with two brilliant 13s in Cave and Spence. No need to move anyone anywhere.

The only reason the likes of BOD makes sense to move inside one, is because he is nearing the end of his career and we need to bring in his replacement. There is no real 12 option yet, so by the time we have an established 13, we can bring a new 12 in. Makes perfect sense. Plus we won't lose anything with BOD there.

Struggling to find the right backrower??? I thought it was probably done and dusted weeks ago and being kept under wraps. This is worrying!

To be honest, I think it is a difficult one. We are sorted at 8 I would say, with Wilson and Diack. Henry covering. That is fine. We are a bit weak at 7, and a lot depends on the development of Birch, so we could maybe get a 7. But we need a 6 more than anything, that is certain at this point. Ferris is being overplayed atm. After him there is Henry who is already going to be playing 7 most likely, and Henderson. We need someone with the physicality that Ferris brings.

Wallace is an outstanding 12 but is 32. Marshall is a highly talent youngster. 'Brilliant' is going over the top.

In terms of what we need for the next 3/4 years neither is certain to fulfil the 12 role for Ulster, let alone Ireland.

Spence is not a 12 in a month of sundays - 13 or a wing for him - hopefully Anscombe thinks the same way

You say such and such is under consideration- but isn't Mark Anscombe going to pretty much make his own mind up on that?

I'm incredibly unenthusiastic about moving two players out of their best positions and taking a tactical kicking option out of the midfield given how inexperienced our prospective 10s are.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Earned the right? You earn the right when you play better than all other options in that position. Stamping your feet and demanding to play in this or that position is not earning the right. In fact, that is pretty childish behaviour. Earls is not bigger than his team.

Think your eh, embellishing the demands things a bit.

“I was getting a bit worried with I heard we had signed Downey and Casey. (Laughs). I think the first day Rob gets here I will be knocking on his door telling him I want to play 13. (Grins)

No. I don’t want to play on the wing anymore. It is not my position and I don’t enjoy it there. Hopefully, I want to improve as a 13 and stop mixing and matching”.

There is of course a strong possibility that Earls could still feature for Ireland on the wing in New Zealand.

“I suppose getting selected is the first thing. If Deccie wants me to play on the wing, I will and have made my feelings known that I want to play in the centre. I have played there all this season and I feel I am getting better. Better defensively and more confident. I want to be a centre and I want to be the best centre in the World. I have performed in the centre when I have not been fit, so if and when I get fully fit, I want to burst onto the scene and stay there.”

http://www.limerickpost.ie/index.php/navigation-mainmenu-30/dropline-menu-mainmenu-34/4542-qi-want-to-be-the-best-in-the-worldq-keith-earls.html

Notch wrote:You say such and such is under consideration- but isn't Mark Anscombe going to pretty much make his own mind up on that?

I'm incredibly unenthusiastic about moving two players out of their best positions and taking a tactical kicking option out of the midfield given how inexperienced our prospective 10s are.

The IRFU have made demands on where Wallace and Court play in the last 2 years.
That is not going to change because Anscombe is in charge.
If Kidney wants Cave to have game time at 12 and Bowe to have game time at 13 - it will happen.

Rather than moving cave we should be looking to bring through Marshall and Farrell. Ulster need to learn that After the spence at 12 mistake. I don't see how playing a 13 at 12 and a 14 at 13 helps us.

You sound happy enough with that experiment Geoff. Personally I think it is silly. Also, Wallace may be 32 but he is playing some of the best rugby he has played yet. His age doesn't matter based on his performances. I hope he is here for a few more seasons.

I have indicated nothing about my own views I am merely passing on soemthing I was told.

Reality is Paddy Wallace has taken a few knocks in his time and physically the only way in down - we need to plan for that.

Just because Spence was a mistake doesn't mean another player moving might not be a success.

Henry moving from 8 to 7 was the best thing that ever happened to him.
Court giving up TH (except in Kidneys deluded brain) and concentrating on LH was likewise a top move.
Henderson just might be a better 6, than a lock, inspite of playing most representative rugby in the second row.

Sometines moves work .

Fortunately he's not going to be around for longer than another year then! I would not have a very high opinion on that experiment.

geoff are the IRFUs demands not limited to those on central contracts? So Cave to 12 would have to be a decision made by Ulster?

marty2086 wrote:geoff are the IRFUs demands not limited to those on central contracts? So Cave to 12 would have to be a decision made by Ulster?

Maybe Ulster Rugby are just trying to accommodate Trimble in the backline with Bowe coming back. From what I understand, Kidney asks that certain players get a couple of games a season (in the Magners) in the position that gives them a central contract.

It's all very well and good but we need to look at what is the best use of our resources and build a strong squad. Cave has the brains to switch I believe but with the two young 12's in the wings and spence a back up 13 it seems we would be stymieing our youngsters. We have allready got rid of a good few this season so the ones we retain we must develop if we are to have any hope of challenging Leinster.

If Bowe plays 13 it let's us play Gilroy and Trimble which is positive but we would have 3 young centres probably not even making the squad if we consider paddy would be in there and cave would be 12.

I do think we need to look at our attack coaching as well. Leinster are light years ahead of us.

Standulstermen wrote:It's all very well and good but we need to look at what is the best use of our resources and build a strong squad. Cave has the brains to switch I believe but with the two young 12's in the wings and spence a back up 13 it seems we would be stymieing our youngsters. We have allready got rid of a good few this season so the ones we retain we must develop if we are to have any hope of challenging Leinster.

If Bowe plays 13 it let's us play Gilroy and Trimble which is positive but we would have 3 young centres probably not even making the squad if we consider paddy would be in there and cave would be 12.

I do think we need to look at our attack coaching as well. Leinster are light years ahead of us.

Had to look this one up!

Central Contracts have nothing to do with it.

Court does not have a Central Contract but he was stilled moved at Kidneys request.

IRFU has the purse strings IRFU calls the tune - simple as that

geoff999rugby wrote:UiK your post have beern of high quality but I think the above is deeply insulting to the likes of Best, Cave, Afoa and others and is complete and utter bunk

Geoff - I know my view on Saturday's performance won't be popular amongst the majority of Ulster fans but I'm only stating my genuine opinion on the matter.

We had a few good individual performances but they were merely incidental to the overall outcome of the game. People will say that the likes of Best and Afoa had good games, but I can't reconcile that with the overall way in which our pack was bullied by their opposite numbers. The try which came from turnover ball against the head..... the penalty try from the rolling maul.... the numerous turnovers generated at the breakdown.... sure, Afoa was fairly visible in the loose and Best hit his jumpers, but they delivered very little in the tight which is where they are meant to earn their money.

I was in Twickenham with a kiwi friend of mine on Saturday and at half time we were having a discussion on what tactics Ulster should employ in the second half.... we both agreed that Ulster lacked leadership on the field and that they needed someone, anyone, to take the fight to Leinster.... literally, a la Buck Shelford, Bakkies Botha or Kobus Weise. Then he considered the Ulster team and commented that only Muller or perhaps Tuohy would be of the required mindset to force a physical confrontation. I wanted to disagree with him but when I thought about it, I couldn't see who else in the Ulster team would be capable of stepping up to the mark. Like I said in my last post... does this team have the mentality to be a champion?

Rory Best, John Afoa, Chris Henry, even Ferris, are the kind of personalities (on the field anyway...) who provide the supporting cast as opposed to fronting up face-to-face with their opposite number. Too many of the Ulster guys are the type of player who will take a punch and not retaliate.... that's all fine and well when we are on top, but sometimes when the going is tough against a superior opponent, you need someone to throw a punch.

Yeah, I know that's an old-fashioned stance and alot of supporters would not agree with that. But I think true champions in any sport just do whatever it takes to win. I don't think many of the Ulster team have that - at least going by what we saw on Saturday.

Just my opinion.

geoff999rugby wrote:Central Contracts have nothing to do with it.

Court does not have a Central Contract but he was stilled moved at Kidneys request.

IRFU has the purse strings IRFU calls the tune - simple as that

Court started two games this season at 3 - one was against the Scarlets just before the AIs and the 2nd game was in April against Connacht which was probably more down to Afoa's suspension than anything else.

Wallace hasn't started one game at 10 this season. Last season he started 2 games at 10.

Kidney doesn't seem to be extraordinarly demanding of Ulster players. The way you are going on, you'd think he was picking the team every week.

That is a very different posting to your previous one which suggested a lack of commitiment. Tuohy as a man who fronts up but not Henry or Ferris or Best.

Those 3 would take a punch and not retaliate - I wouldn't bet on it

UlsterinKildare wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:UiK your post have beern of high quality but I think the above is deeply insulting to the likes of Best, Cave, Afoa and others and is complete and utter bunk

Geoff - I know my view on Saturday's performance won't be popular amongst the majority of Ulster fans but I'm only stating my genuine opinion on the matter.

We had a few good individual performances but they were merely incidental to the overall outcome of the game. People will say that the likes of Best and Afoa had good games, but I can't reconcile that with the overall way in which our pack was bullied by their opposite numbers. The try which came from turnover ball against the head..... the penalty try from the rolling maul.... the numerous turnovers generated at the breakdown.... sure, Afoa was fairly visible in the loose and Best hit his jumpers, but they delivered very little in the tight which is where they are meant to earn their money.

I was in Twickenham with a kiwi friend of mine on Saturday and at half time we were having a discussion on what tactics Ulster should employ in the second half.... we both agreed that Ulster lacked leadership on the field and that they needed someone, anyone, to take the fight to Leinster.... literally, a la Buck Shelford, Bakkies Botha or Kobus Weise. Then he considered the Ulster team and commented that only Muller or perhaps Tuohy would be of the required mindset to force a physical confrontation. I wanted to disagree with him but when I thought about it, I couldn't see who else in the Ulster team would be capable of stepping up to the mark. Like I said in my last post... does this team have the mentality to be a champion?

Rory Best, John Afoa, Chris Henry, even Ferris, are the kind of personalities (on the field anyway...) who provide the supporting cast as opposed to fronting up face-to-face with their opposite number. Too many of the Ulster guys are the type of player who will take a punch and not retaliate.... that's all fine and well when we are on top, but sometimes when the going is tough against a superior opponent, you need someone to throw a punch.

Yeah, I know that's an old-fashioned stance and alot of supporters would not agree with that. But I think true champions in any sport just do whatever it takes to win. I don't think many of the Ulster team have that - at least going by what we saw on Saturday.

Just my opinion.

UiK I think your underestimating a lot of the players, maybe they didn't do the job on Saturday but sometimes you got to learn the hard way. These players are hungry and hungry to make Ulster a force in Europe hopefully lessons have been learned and Im sure there was a ttouch of stage fright too. If they got back next season do you think those players wouldn't make sure they didn't go through it again?

Sin é wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Central Contracts have nothing to do with it.

Court does not have a Central Contract but he was stilled moved at Kidneys request.

IRFU has the purse strings IRFU calls the tune - simple as that

Court started two games this season at 3 - one was against the Scarlets just before the AIs and the 2nd game was in April against Connacht which was probably more down to Afoa's suspension than anything else.

Wallace hasn't started one game at 10 this season. Last season he started 2 games at 10.

Kidney doesn't seem to be extraordinarly demanding of Ulster players. The way you are going on, you'd think he was picking the team every week.

I think you need to go back and reread my posts - I made absolutely no reference as to the frequency of the demands to play players in certain position' so no idea where you get the idea I am 'going on about it'. In fact I did not even say the reason for a Cave 12 Bowe 13 selection was coming from the IRFU I merely suggested it as a possibility - for all I have been told it may be an Ulster decision.
I have only clarified to others that we are under an obligation to switch players if the IRFU/Kidney inssit upon it -nothing more or less.

I disagree UIK. I think everyone gave everything they could, but our focus was too much on playing with width than attacking them in the tight. I couldn't honestly say Best didn't give everything. My abiding memory of him in the final is him making a phenomenal try saving tackle on Sean O'Brien- mattered for nothing because there were about seven Leinster players lined up to score it on the next phase, which Healy duly did. Ferris and Henry I don't believe were 100% fit. But no doubt they gave 100% of what they had.

geoff999rugby wrote:That is a very different posting to your previous one which suggested a lack of commitiment. Tuohy as a man who fronts up but not Henry or Ferris or Best.

Those 3 would take a punch and not retaliate - I wouldn't bet on it

Geoff - you're missing my point. We needed someone to step up and try to stop Leinster's flow. We needed someone to make something happen. Someone to put down a physical marker. Someone to draw a line in the sand. In days gone by, that might have meant someone throwing a punch. I'm not condoning it, but like I said, champions find a way to win.... in truth, our guys didn't even go down fighting....

By the way, didn't Chris Henry take a slap against Treviso or Aironi a few games back? Can't recall if he did anything about it though... like I said, it's OK when we're winning, not so sure about those players went they are getting sand kicked in their faces.

Thing is, I hate* some of those Leinster players. And its because they are willing to be hated if it means winning. They are cocky, arrogant and cut-throat.

Are they like that because they win so much, or do they win so much because they are like that?

I remember fairly early on, Nacewa grabbing Ferris by the shirt and throwing him aside before giving him a split second to get onside at a breakdown.

I think leinster are capable of being pumped yet 100% level headed all in one.

Too many Ulster players are either one or the other.

I think the management is too worried about our players nerves and panic that we focus too much on playing down the ferocity of the occassion.

I might well be talking nonsense, I dont know the mood in the changing room!


* I may not actually mean hate in the way the dictionary defines it.

Sin é wrote: [Court started two games this season at 3 - one was against the Scarlets just before the AIs and the 2nd game was in April against Connacht which was probably more down to Afoa's suspension than anything else.

On the question of the Connacht game you are plain wrong.

Ulster wanted to play Fitzpatrick and were told they had to play Court TH.
Even without Afoa Ulster were not allowed to play the TH they wanted to in that game.

Geoff I think you are probably going a bit over the top to say that UlsterinKildare is being disrespectful. If he is guilty of something it is knee-jerk reactionism. To say that these players cannot 'front up' is just utter garbage from someone who clearly has the memory of a goldfish. Shall we step in the Tardis and travel back to the quarter final against Munster in Thomond Park where that entire team put their bodies on the line in a monumental effort. What about both matches against Clermont where the pack in particular put in massive physical performances against the best France has to offer.

To say that Rory Best, John Afoa, Chris Henry, and Stephen Ferris are 'supporting cast' is frankly an embarrassing comment to make. You only have to watch these players week in, week out as mist of us do here to know that is a nonsensical opinion. On the day we were beaten, and well beaten at that. Are you really going to post at the end of a season with the effort these players have put in that they are the sort of players who shirk responsibility, cowards who take a backwards step? For shame, a ridiculous assertion and not worthy of Ulster fans or the players.

UiK I think you are missing the point we did not lose because we were not committed , we did not lose because we were not fighting fire with fire.

We lost because they have been there seen it done it and simply because they were the better team - in a number of positions they had a player our equivalents could not match - Sexton, BoD, Kearney are the obvious ones.
They had a far more effective bench.

We had more weaknesses than them and they got exposed.
We lost because they are a better team not a difference in attitude.

We will learn from this and come back stronger but sometimes you have to put your hand up and say the opposition were too good for us. This was one such day

Hook I do think the first post was disrepectful I dont think the clarifcation one was. They had a very different tone about them.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote: Shall we step in the Tardis and travel back to the quarter final against Munster in Thomond Park where that entire team put their bodies on the line in a monumental effort.

14 players put there bodies on the line that day - 1 did not

geoff999rugby wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote: Shall we step in the Tardis and travel back to the quarter final against Munster in Thomond Park where that entire team put their bodies on the line in a monumental effort.

14 players put there bodies on the line that day - 1 did not

Ha! So true. Makes the efforts of the rest of the team all the more worthy of note.