Marquee Signings

From next season, AP teams are allowed to have one player not included in the Salary Cap - the Marquee signing. I understand that it has to be a new player, and not an existing one.

As far as I know the following sides are currently up or near the salary cap:

Quins
Tigers
Sarries
Saints
Sale
Bath
Gloucester

London Irish are apparently under, but not by much looking at their squad. Worcester I do not know. Exeter and Wasps are probably under.

So who are the marquee signings?

Quins - not having one?
Tigers - no idea
Sarries - Ashton
Saints - ???
Sale -Grey?
Bath - ????
Glaws - Cowan

Any thoughts?

I understand that it has to be a new player, and not an existing one.

I think it can be a new one but not an English player signed from another English team. That would rule out Ashton I suppose.

http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2010-11/rugby/story/140449.html

"Premiership Rugby explained that the policy, that for example could see Leicester could exclude Ben Youngs if they wished but not Newcastle immediately after signing him, is intended to, "ensure as far as possible that clubs keep players they have developed and there isn't an inflationary market in top English players moving from club to club"."

So I'd expect Tigers to use Castro as the marquee player.

Apparently Bath looking at doing something similar and putting Donald down as the marquee

I don't think Splashton is the marquee siging as he's not allowed to be.

Wasn't the idea that Castro would become the marquee player at Tigers?

I must admit, I have no idea how the cap works when considering agreed increase in salary for future years within the contract. So using Bath as an example, could Donald have been signed where his first year's earnings were within the cap, but upon the 2nd year and the introduction of the marquee ruling, could his salary go through the roof and he be moved across?

The longstanding assumption of Quins fans is that Nick Evans will be designated the marquee signing, and the extra headroom will just be used to hang on to more of our academy players.

Going off on a tangent, it was revealed on Monday that Chris York will be leaving Quins at the end of the season. He's a 6/8 with decent potential but behind Robshaw / Easter / Mo / Guest in the pecking order, so is probably looking for more game time. With the depth in our back row, it's sad but not devastating to Quins to see him go, but I think whoever gets him will have made a good choice. Anyone know where he's going?

LondonTiger wrote:
London Irish are apparently under, but not by much looking at their squad. Worcester I do not know. Exeter and Wasps are probably under.

The reorganisation at LI at the moment is intended to shift money from the backroom to the pitch. As I understand it the club has a budget of around £5.5m total, and want to spend the full £4.3m on players. That probably doesn't leave enough for Marquee signings.

I'm beginning to get worried about a number of clubs.

After the clear, recent warnings set by Bradford Bulls (RL) and Wasps, the wage cap should not be treated as a minimum spend.

More that it should be a maximum spend given a turnover limit.

I must admit, I have no idea how the cap works when considering agreed increase in salary for future years within the contract. So using Bath as an example, could Donald have been signed where his first year's earnings were within the cap, but upon the 2nd year and the introduction of the marquee ruling, could his salary go through the roof and he be moved across?

I think the amount spent on a marquee player is limited to £300kish. If in this case Donald was on more than that I'd presume only the £300k would be exempt and the rest still in.

Poorfour wrote:The longstanding assumption of Quins fans is that Nick Evans will be designated the marquee signing, and the extra headroom will just be used to hang on to more of our academy players.

Going off on a tangent, it was revealed on Monday that Chris York will be leaving Quins at the end of the season. He's a 6/8 with decent potential but behind Robshaw / Easter / Mo / Guest in the pecking order, so is probably looking for more game time. With the depth in our back row, it's sad but not devastating to Quins to see him go, but I think whoever gets him will have made a good choice. Anyone know where he's going?

Balls. Hadn't seen that. Was it on comeallwithin? He's a bit raw but always looked like he could develop into a fantastic player.

Poorfour wrote:, it was revealed on Monday that Chris York will be leaving Quins at the end of the season.

Thats a shame - thought that York looked good when he played. We have several older statesmen in our Quins Back row. Easter and Maurie will probably both think of retirement in the next 2yrs - there would be more oportunity for the youngsters to step up and be noticed(Like Wallace has).
Whoever signes him will have a good player if he kicks on further.

Bit odd that they are releasing York but retaining Guest. Guest having struggled for form this term and is now, what 28? Keeping the younger guy who would have no doubt been cheaper and is already on the fringes of the first team might have been the better call.

That's assuming the club are releasing him, rather than him deciding he wasn't going to get games and to take another offer. Can't find the story immediately.

True Thomh but if they sat him down and said that Guest was off and they want him to step up and take that position in the squad he would have been more likely to stay as that would have been the main contender for the 6/8 backup out the way.

I guess so, but Guest has a contract for the next two seasons I think.

Don't think Exe are planning to have one, as far as I am aware

Always looked as if York had more potential then Guest so it's a bit of a shame. But fair play to him I hope he gets a good first team spot somewhere and does well. It's not like we don't have plenty more.

As to marquee well it has to be Evans surely? I can't think of any othe players we'd use.

You've got another U20 8 at the moment haven't you. Perhaps they feel he has more potential to replace Easter. York seems to only get games when everyone else is injured so he's not really on the fringe of the 1st team is he?

No he's probably behind a 4/5 other players. He just always seemed a bit more abrasive then Guest.

Yep we have Jack Clifford who looks another quality 6/8. Although I kind of hope he does focus on one position.

We've got Joe Trayfoot and Jack Clifford in the academy, and Guest is only 27 - I'd say he's got his best years ahead of him and could probably play for 5 or 6 more years. By the way, COS has made it clear that he doesn't like specialist flankers and wants all the players to be able to play more than one position, so I don't think the younger guys will emerge as outright specialists. This is why Neil McMillan has left and is one reason why Robshaw/Mo are favoured over Skinner.

York is a high potential player, but I think it's marginal whether he might eventually offer more than Guest. At the moment I would have said he is a little slower and a little less physical, and has less experience than Guest of controlling a game (though Guest lags Easter in this respect). Now he's fit again, COS clearly sees Guest as part of the core back row unit and is using him to introduce a different style to Mo in the last quarter of a game.

As I said, some team out there should be happy to have recruited York, but I can see why he would want to move on and Quins might be happy to let him.

By the way, the other leavers were (from memory) Urdapilleta, Vallejos, Croall, Cairns and Bolt.

Bolt and Vallejos are going?

Interesting stuff, i've been massively underwhelmed by Vallejos after he initially looked pretty decent and Bolt only ever was third choice.

Second row again looks an area of concern then. Yes we have good prospects but if we want to regularly compete against the best teams then we need a very good replacement for Kohn now not in two or three seasons.

You'd think Vallejos is a big abrasive Argentinian lock but he seems to be under powered in the scrum, not a massive carrier or even much cop at the lineout. Probably ok as injury cover but not even 1st choice bench player IO. You guys really REALLY need to find a decent replacement for Kohn.

It's probably our biggest weakness (along with cover for Nev). Kohn is instrumental in how the pack goes

While we don't have a direct replacement for Olly yet, Pete Browne is back to full fitness and Charlie Matthews should be fit for next season. Matthews in particular looked ready to step up when he played this season, and should only get better as he bulks up.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with marquee players...

Big Lump in the 2nd row has surely been on the fans shopping list for some time now.
Along with more decent front row replacements.

marquee - How long does Johnston and Marler have left on contracts.
Props (especially TH's) command the biggest wages these days excl. superstars. If we couldnt put NEV into the marquee category then maybe Johnston could be. His recent improvement is a good bargaining chip and Quins may not be able to accomodate it in norm salary cap. I heard Quins are quite close to the cap.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with marquee players...

Big second row as the marquee?

Quins have always made it clear that they spend up to the cap - but I suspect there is a subtlety in that they will be thinking about what they can spend in the context of what renewals or new players they need over the next few years. I'd be very surprised if COS doesn't have a 3 year plan for how Quins will fill the salary cap - which will include allowances for what it will take to retain the likes of JJ and Robshaw (from memory, one year into a 3 year contract but heading for a big payrise at renewal, methinks).

They've shown a ruthless streak in the past - when Strettle left, he was one of five players up for renewal who had all moved up in seniority, including Ugo and Robshaw. They were each told "here's a [competitive] offer. We're making 5 but we can only afford 4, so the last one in will be withdrawn."

However, I think that the marquee rule and academy credits will benefit Quins more than most - they have a very expensive superstar marquee player in NEv, and they get maximum benefit from the academy credits (from memory, £30k extra in the salary cap for up to 8 academy graduates on their first senior contract - easy for Quins!). Overall, I think it's worth something like 12% extra headroom in the salary cap - which is quite a lot to play with.

There doesn't appear to be a restriction on whether the Marquee player is an existing one or not (in fact for English players, the restriction appears to be that they have to have been at the club for some time), so I assume Nev is eligible (and the obvious choice - JJ is not as established an international and is not giving up his international career to play here, so won't be as expensive, despite being a TH).

I doubt we'll spend enough on a second row that they overtake Evans as our marquee player, but hopefully this system will free up a bit of extra money for investment there.

That said, I like Charlie Matthews a lot. Looked as promising as Launchbury at the u20s last summer but hasn't had nearly the game time, and there is always Pete Browne.

I think Marler and Johnston are both signed until 2014 like most of the squad.

From what i heard Sale were nowhere near the salary cap this year, would Gray and Cipriani have pushed their payroll that much higher?

gowales - I would imagine that Grey was offered a substancial package.
He is a rising star, while Cipriani well, needs a new start but wont be getting a superstar package.

From what i heard Sale were nowhere near the salary cap this year, would Gray and Cipriani have pushed their payroll that much higher?

They've got a pretty big squad though no real big names so whilst they may be seeing some difference between what they are spending and the cap it probably won't be that massive. I'd have thought LI were the smallest spenders this season.

Didn't Gray get something near to 220k allegedly?

Efion Lewis Roberts can't have come cheap as he has signed on from moneybags Toulon.

Buggy boy Powell,Vernon and Fourie (signed when his stock was much higher) - must take a fair chunk

Also Dickinson,Peel,Cueto and Sheridan will probably be on healthy salaries.

Also Dickinson,Peel,Cueto and Sheridan will probably be on healthy salaries

Sheridan is going to Toulon so pretty much a straight swap with Roberts. Dickinson was left with the option of go back to Scotland on Rabo wages or be a squad player at Sale so doubt he got much. Cueto and Peel are probably on decent salaries. Powell was in disgrace and only on a little one year deal at Wasps, doubt he's on that serious a wage and Fourie was due to play Championship rugby before Sale snapped him up.

Only Cueto, Peel and one of Sheridan/Roberts would have been real marquee signing options I'd have thought but Gray will trump that.

Agreed - Gray will not have come cheap. Although I understand the offer from the SRU was slightly higher than than offered by Sale, it was only slightly higher, and the SRU dug deep to find the money.

Sale shouldn't be paying Dickinson very much money. They really shouldn't!

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Of course, none of this has anything to do with marquee players...

Big second row as the marquee?

Dont know how long he has signed for - but would really like to sign Hudson from Falcons if they get relegated.
I'm sure their capt is tied in with a long contract though + Deano would want to hang on to him.

Is Hudson an enforcer though? Or just a slightly different variation of robson?

Green, Day, Slater, Launchberry, Skivington would all fill the role

Falcons scrum is much improved when Hudson is playing!
Improvements to their play were similar to when Quins had Kohn back from injury.

Green, Day, Slater, Launchberry, Skivington would all fill the role

Green has gone to Leeds, Skivington to Irish, Slater and Day have signed new deals with their respective clubs and I presume Wasps have Launchbury signed up. If Quins wanted either Skivington or Green then they were available though Green might not have fancied Quins as he wanted first team rugby, Skivington wanted to move closer to London with his family so was there on a plate for any London side willing to make a decent offer.