Klit perspective - Which of these guys wouldn't rule now!!!!

First topic message reminder :

The eighties has often been referred to as the worst era for heavyweights.........Say we used HG wells machine to transport them to now (providing they were in shape) and tell me which of these wouldn't rule now.........

Tubbs........Witherspoon.....Thomas.........Dokes...........Weaver...........Bruno (yes Bruno).............Cooney.........Page.....Smith......Douglas......Holyfield....Bowe............Lewis...........

Me I think they all do........

Now granted some of the younger members won't remember half of these guys but it's just a little reminder that timing is everything and a little perspective needed when evaluating our Russian friends.......

A little Klit perspective on their "Dominance"...and this was the era of the lousy heavy!!!!!!!!

There is such a thing as seeing the whole picture too..

Forgetting Lewis is British..Bowe is American.......

Forget the fact Bowe would've been a big favorite........Forget the fact guys like Futch and Steward didn't rate Lewis then....Forget the fact he'd beaten top 10 p4per Holy in a war....

No.. he was a no good coward according to some scroats who've never had the guts to go in a ring...

You're right.............I'm wrong..

You're trying to create an issue here Truss - Bowe was a good boxer, a very good boxer. But he had the opportunity to step up and show us he wasn't just fighting out of his skin against Holyfield, that he could have a genuine top quality heavyweight in the ring again and he could beat him.

He publically did the equivalent of saying "no he's too good" and you seem to be upset that we see that as cowardice?

I've been in a ring, I'm sure a few have. I'd watch who you're calling a "scroat" - this is another example of the things you come out with and don't get challenged, yet I offer my opinion that you're a WUM and I get chastised. Its the reason a lot of people don't post here Truss, because you attempt to bully them away with superior knowledge backed by a completely biased and sometimes bordering on pathetic nature of which you push people into pointless arguments.

"You're right.............I'm wrong.."

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Finally, you admit defeat! Hallelujah! Priase the lord!

JabMachineMK2 wrote:You're trying to create an issue here Truss - Bowe was a good boxer, a very good boxer. But he had the opportunity to step up and show us he wasn't just fighting out of his skin against Holyfield, that he could have a genuine top quality heavyweight in the ring again and he could beat him.

He publically did the equivalent of saying "no he's too good" and you seem to be upset that we see that as cowardice?

I've been in a ring, I'm sure a few have. I'd watch who you're calling a "scroat" - this is another example of the things you come out with and don't get challenged, yet I offer my opinion that you're a WUM and I get chastised. Its the reason a lot of people don't post here Truss, because you attempt to bully them away with superior knowledge backed by a completely biased and sometimes bordering on pathetic nature of which you push people into pointless arguments.

Truss doesn't scare me Jabmachine. He's been trying to jusdtify the Bowe incident for years.

Besides I've been in kickboxing and Karate competitions, not quite the same as donning the gloves in a boxing match but I'd say I'm slightly above a scroat and on a par with a man who has an amateur record consisting of one fight.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:There is such a thing as seeing the whole picture too..

Forgetting Lewis is British..Bowe is American.......

Forget the fact Bowe would've been a big favorite........Forget the fact guys like Futch and Steward didn't rate Lewis then....Forget the fact he'd beaten top 10 p4per Holy in a war....

No.. he was a no good coward according to some scroats who've never had the guts to go in a ring...

You're right.............I'm wrong..

Forgetting the fact Lewis had already beaten him once.....

He had in the amateurs.......

Duane Bobick must have scared Larry Holmes rigid!!!

Got to say am slightly with truss re the amateur thing, believe I am right in saying Dean Pithie beat Naz as an amateur, I would not have staked too much money on him repeating the trick as a pro.

I do agree that an amateur record is not necessarily an indicator of what will happen in the pros. However, Bowe showed himself to be fragile upstairs, couple that with the fact it was in the Olympic Final, it may have been a factor.

There's a bit of a distinction between super-confident fellas like Nas and Holmes and our Riddick. And Duane Bobick was (or doesn't look like) a Lennox Lewis.

What's the distinction????

A guy low on confidence beats the unbeaten Holyfield does he??

mmm interesting..

Tends to be forgotten but Larry wasn't totally against denying opportunities to certain fighters....

But no one has a pop at him...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What's the distinction????

A guy low on confidence beats the unbeaten Holyfield does he??

mmm interesting..

I didn't say low on confidence. I said fragile. That's the difference. When one is 'fragile' mentally you can be riding the crest of a wave one day, then the next there can be a 'trigger' to change all that. Lewis, his final or whatever MAY have been the trigger, I speculate.

That's BS you don't know how any of them felt.....

No offence but that's garbage...

He was so fragile he beat Holy twice and lost a contentious decision the other time...

Mate come on......you're peeing in the dark...

No. I don't know, you're right. That's why I was speculating.

You're missing the point of fragile. I'm not saying Bowe did have a mental condition or something similar. But when one is in that situation then you can be riding the crest of a wave (repeating myself here), just to confirm that 'crest' is Holyfield. Then all of a sudden something can trigger a problem, Lewis. SPECULATION.

There is no harm in speculating...........

However we do know that Holmes up and left after Page was made mandatory and feasted on the likes of Bey and Smith instead (IBF)...

and we do know that Bowe gets abuse for "avoiding" Lewis....

We also know that the other guy you referred to NAZ who wasn't supposedly as fragile......

Didn't deal with his loss like Bowe did his against Holyfield!!!

I take your point. You're making some good ones this evening.
My point about fragility was its flexible nature and how it varies from person to person. It isn't something scientific that can be scientifically quantified and measured, it doesn't have set rules, as with most mental issues.

Gotta say think Lewis had Bowe's number for some reason and physiological Riddick knew this, Bowe never fought a genuine puncher in his whole professional career and I agree Truss he wouldve started a favourite if they'd fought in 93 I very much doubt it wouldve been anything big, Lewis would've been 6/4 at best.

We'll never know Riddick gets praised far too much for my liking, would've picked pre and post steward Lewis to beat him and post incarceration Tyson to do him, Bowe had fragile elements.

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:

azania wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Belt in the bin. I rest my case.

Vit quit on his stool because of a bad shoulder. Even audley carried on. Vit = quitter.

Completely different Az me ole matey! At least Vit was in the ring. Bowe done a hammer throw and thee belto landed in the bino as they say in Spanish. He never quit because he was too afraid to even get started

He never quit. Not once. Even when Golota mistook his gonads for his head. Even Audley showed bravery to continue. Vit quit like a spoilt child when the going got tough. What a wuss.

I think it's has someone has already pointed out an obvious truth. To most NORMAL people, someone that refused to fight is a bigger wuss that someone who quit whilst fighting.

He quit.

Wasn't the issue with Lewis one of money?

Bowe wanted a much higher percentage than Lewis was willing to concede to.......

It was a poor offer as i recall..

and they took Holy 2 instead dumping the belt....

Unlike Manny with Arum...the sins of the promoter/manager affected the reputation of the fighter he worked for in this case.....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Bowe wanted a much higher percentage than Lewis was willing to concede to.......

It was a poor offer as i recall..

and they took Holy 2 instead dumping the belt....

Unlike Manny with Arum...the sins of the promoter/manager affected the reputation of the fighter he worked for in this case.....

Wasn't Holy 2 the bigger fight?

Witherspoon (when he could be arsed), Bowe, Holyfield and Lewis all had too much for the Klitchkos and would have KOed Wlad. Spoon and Holyfield outpoint Vitali, while i would fancy prime Bowe and Lewis to stop him. None of the other 80's fighters mentioned beat Vitali, but all have a decent chance of landing a finishing shot on to the crystal like jaw of Wlad.
The 80's was not the Heavyweight divisions finest moment but compared to now it was a golden age.

Cheers for this thread Truss, I have spent the past two hours watching YouTube videos of all the 80s fighters mentioned, just watched Mike Weaver ko John Tate what a punch! Whilst I dont think VK has to much to worry about I don't think WK would be risked with someone who could punch like that after 15 rounds never mind 12

I think it does Wlad a great disservice when people say he would not have fought x,y,z and portray him as a ducker. Hes faced some decent punchers in his time and theres not really anything to suggest he would duck anyone outside his big brother. He might win every fight but hes a proven track record of taking on the best available competition. It was similar in the run up to the Haye fight with all these suggestions he was afraid or would hide behind Vitali. Cant see any reason he would not fight somebody like Mike Weaver.

The thing about Wlads chin is that he is a different fighter now. When he got sparked out in the past he reacted differently when he got caught. He used to try and trade his way out of trouble leaving himself open. Now he goes on the defensive and when he does that he is almost impossible to catch.

I dont even think Wlads chin is as bad as is made out. His KO defeats to Purrity and Brewster were down to gassing and exhaustion. Sanders was a clean KO but in a similar vein to Lewis/McCall. Caught early by a big shot.

Part of his previous problems was he wasnt that good on the inside so when somebody did get past the jab he would end up scrambling all of the place. This is what happened against Peter in the first fight. Hes much more polished now and is far more adept at tie up on the inside. I think hes a much better fighter now than 5 or ten years ago but less exciting as a result.

manos de piedra wrote:I dont even think Wlads chin is as bad as is made out. His KO defeats to Purrity and Brewster were down to gassing and exhaustion. Sanders was a clean KO but in a similar vein to Lewis/McCall. Caught early by a big shot.

Part of his previous problems was he wasnt that good on the inside so when somebody did get past the jab he would end up scrambling all of the place. This is what happened against Peter in the first fight. Hes much more polished now and is far more adept at tie up on the inside. I think hes a much better fighter now than 5 or ten years ago but less exciting as a result.

Some of those 1980s boxers gassed after 5 rounds themselves.

The boxers from the 80's were all of similar ability and therefore made for more competative fights. The Klitchs are just so much better than anyone else currently around that it makes them look ordinary. Would the fighters from the 80s give the Klitch problems? Yes. Would they rule? No. They would be a midway point between what we have now (mainly second tier contenders) and the Klitchs, but I fancy the Klitch Bros to come through most of them with maybe (and this hurts me to say it) the exeception of Lewis.

Think people often forget how schooled the 80's heavies were....Footwork..combination punching etc...........

Klits would've never seen anything like it bar Lewis.who was 38 and still had Vit's number..

Even Cooney who was of a similar height to Wlad would've had a six round window to land the left hook..

If it lands he goes...............