ARRRGHHH.......Ike Ibeabuchi!!

Insanity struck and the world lost Tyson's REAL successor. He was truelly exciting. The first man to beat prime versions of David Tua and Chris Byrd, and what makes these victories even more impressive is that he was a relative novice.

But what do you think....

Had he not been incarcerated would he have become the best heavyweight of his generation? and how do you think he would have matched against the late 90's early 00's versions of Holyfield, Tyson and Lennox?

More interestingly, he is 2 years younger than Vital Klitschko. Therfore, he, and not the Klits, would have shaped the heavyweight divison we know today. It would still be the most prestigious prize on planet earth. Imagine the President bouncing Haye around the ring like a rag doll.

GOD I MISS IKE IBEABUCHI!!!! DO YOU??

Skys the limit in his case.

Granted he probably wouldn't have stayed unbeaten but he would never go into a fight as a heavy underdog.

He last fought 1999 I think meaning that he could have easily fought Lewis. Lewis would have the best chance against ike due to his size power and skill.

Ike had an iron chin, good power, good technique and has relentless stamina and won't back down. He stood toe-to-toe with Tua, a heavy hitter and wasn't wobbled. The Tyson of '00 wouldn't have beat him as ike would be favourite as they got into deep waters

Holyfield would struggle vs him also due to the size difference and could pan out like when holyfield went to war with Bowe.

Wlad won't stand a chanc was Ike would get to his chin and it wounds end well

Prime vitali would be a fun fight as he could probably match ibeabuchi's stamina and won't be knocked out either.

It's a hard one to judge as he hadn't hit his prime age for a HW and was getting better with each fight. What he lacked in skill he made up for in strength

Massively over rated based on his war with Tua, he made far harder work of that fight than a genuine top class operator should have done. He would have beaten 99 versions of Tyson and the brothers while Holyfield would be 50/50 and Lewis would beat him, he may have improved dramatically but based on what I did see of him, the praise he gets is far too high.

Didn't Maloney say he didn't want any part of him for Lewis? He had good reason as he probably would have knocked out the most over-rated heavyweight in the ATG stakes.

Also isn't he the only HW in history to throw over 1000 punches in a fight? Flyweights dont do that! Awesome talent.

I thought Ibeabuchi was fairly talented and a brutish fighter who gives everyone fits. Like the Greb of Heavyweights. I also thought that he chose to stand and trade with Tua - His demolition of Byrd was much more impressive.

1730 punches between them so probably near enough. That like Calzaghe territory - and each one with a serious bomb behind it.

When he was turning down fights with the likes of Michael Grant don't think a fight with Lewis was ever realistic once he started to lose the plot, if Tua gives him trouble in his only meaningful fight then he really isn't all that.

That's incredible. JC's punches were more pitter patter punches though, so he could throw 10,000 and it wouldn't mean much other than looking as though he's doing something.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:When he was turning down fights with the likes of Michael Grant don't think a fight with Lewis was ever realistic once he started to lose the plot, if Tua gives him trouble in his only meaningful fight then he really isn't all that.

Ah, so Tua gave him trouble so he isn't all that. An ancient Mercer should have got the decision against Lewis. What does that tell you?

Watch the Byrd fight Alma - its a decent fight - and a fantastic knockdown

Not sure how reliable that 1000 punch stat is. Surely it could have been counted from the days of compubox so the sample pool must be quite small?

Pretty sure Vitali has thrown over 1000 punches in one or two his fights aswell and I would guess many of the older heavyweights pre compubox would have done likewise, especially in 15 rounders.

I dont think what Ibeabuchi did to Tua or Byrd was anything that wouldnt be or wasnt done by a genuine top fighter so its hard to assess. Would fancy Vitali to beat him and then depends on which version of Wlad he faces. Lewis likewise.

I think he would have taken Vitali apart. His jab was a superb weapon and the way he doubled up his left hook to the body then head was awesome. I'd pick him over Lewis

Difficult to say how he would have done against the likes of Lewis or the K's because he hadn't yet fought anyone similar to that style; a tall, rangy boxer with a strong jab.

He clearly had some strong attributes which would have certainly made him a dangerous opponent for anyone - power, strength, stamina, chin and decent fundamentals.

Having said all that, he was extremely unstable mentally which could have led to erratic performances (a la Golota). For instance, I've read on other forums that Ike used to regularly struggle badly in sparring sessions with none other than Kirk Johnson.....a guy Vitali pancaked in two rounds.

Interestingly, Chris Byrd (who fought Ike, Wlad and Vitali) said in a recent interview that while Ike was more skilled than he was expecting, he'd have fancied both brothers to have beaten him.

Overall, much like Edwin Valero, its hard to judge how good he could have been. He potentially could have turned out to be a dominating force of HW boxing, or could have just ended up being a footnote of the modern era.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:When he was turning down fights with the likes of Michael Grant don't think a fight with Lewis was ever realistic once he started to lose the plot, if Tua gives him trouble in his only meaningful fight then he really isn't all that.

Seriously!?!

Which 15 fight novice wouldn't have trouble against an unbeaten tua???

I think you forget Tua left a lot in the ring that night. It was a war of attrition that not many recover from, including Ike. However, whereas it effected Tua as a fighter, it affected Ike in a very different way........

azania wrote:I think he would have taken Vitali apart. His jab was a superb weapon and the way he doubled up his left hook to the body then head was awesome. I'd pick him over Lewis

No surprises there!

He's the type of person who probably would have been a footnote. Won the title and blown a gasket before his first defense.

He had 20 fights in which he didn't do anything I wouldn't expect any top ranking heavyweight to do, struggling in the only fight that gives an indication of future success does lead me to believe he was massively over rated. Don't see him beating Vitali around 2001-2004 while Wlad would stand a very good chance once he teamed up with Steward. The fact his career was cut short has seen him turn into a fighter he wasn't, choosing to go to war with Tua or not is no excuse for struggling against a fighter better boxers wouldn't have.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:He had 20 fights in which he didn't do anything I wouldn't expect any top ranking heavyweight to do, struggling in the only fight that gives an indication of future success does lead me to believe he was massively over rated. Don't see him beating Vitali around 2001-2004 while Wlad would stand a very good chance once he teamed up with Steward. The fact his career was cut short has seen him turn into a fighter he wasn't, choosing to go to war with Tua or not is no excuse for struggling against a fighter better boxers wouldn't have.

That's very harsh. He won a war against the most dangerous fighter in his division. The same fighter Lewis ran from all night.

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:He had 20 fights in which he didn't do anything I wouldn't expect any top ranking heavyweight to do, struggling in the only fight that gives an indication of future success does lead me to believe he was massively over rated. Don't see him beating Vitali around 2001-2004 while Wlad would stand a very good chance once he teamed up with Steward. The fact his career was cut short has seen him turn into a fighter he wasn't, choosing to go to war with Tua or not is no excuse for struggling against a fighter better boxers wouldn't have.

That's very harsh. He won a war against the most dangerous fighter in his division. The same fighter Lewis ran from all night.

Come on man, I know your no fan of Lewis but you cant knock the way he handled Tua if you are going to praise Ike for making harder work of it.

Just shows you how clever Lewis was against Tua,why get into a war when you can totally outbox him and win comfortably.

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:He had 20 fights in which he didn't do anything I wouldn't expect any top ranking heavyweight to do, struggling in the only fight that gives an indication of future success does lead me to believe he was massively over rated. Don't see him beating Vitali around 2001-2004 while Wlad would stand a very good chance once he teamed up with Steward. The fact his career was cut short has seen him turn into a fighter he wasn't, choosing to go to war with Tua or not is no excuse for struggling against a fighter better boxers wouldn't have.

That's very harsh. He won a war against the most dangerous fighter in his division. The same fighter Lewis ran from all night.

Come on man, I know your no fan of Lewis but you cant knock the way he handled Tua if you are going to praise Ike for making harder work of it.

My point is manos, Ike didn't struggle against Tua. He beat his fair and decisively in a Tua type fight. The same Tua who pancaked Ruiz, Moorer and others. He stood toe to toe with him. Something Lewis was reluctant to do. Lewis fought his fight and schooled Tua in what was a boring fight. Also Ike fought a peak, fit Tua and not the beached whale masquerading as a boxer, lewis fought.

Well if the argument was who would win in war between Lewis and Ibeabuchi then you may well be right but it isnt going to be the case neccessarily.

Lewis made Tua look ordinary, Ibeabuchi didnt. Although I take your point regarding the condition of Tua in the respective fights.

manos de piedra wrote:Well if the argument was who would win in war between Lewis and Ibeabuchi then you may well be right but it isnt going to be the case neccessarily.

Lewis made Tua look ordinary, Ibeabuchi didnt. Although I take your point regarding the condition of Tua in the respective fights.

Lewis beat the Tua in front of him with ease. Ike fought and beat a better version.You may as well praise Holmes for stopping Ali. Something Frazier couldn't do. Its on their records.

It probably was a better version that Ibeabuchi beat but come on, its not Ali/Holmes here.

Lewis boxed a good fight against Tua. I find it hard to knock what he did but praise Ibeabuchi with the same motion. Had Tua not got a granite chin Lewis probably would have stopped him even accounting for the safety first approach. He landed some big shots on him.

Your being harsh here,

Byrd was unbeaten and was a really good win. Byrd stylistically should have fared pretty well vs him but struggled to muster anything but to avoid the punches. Both wlad and vitali couldn't get rid of bryd until Wlad rematches him. Also, holyfield later lost to Byrd around 01/02 pretty convincingly. The stoppage was pretty good also

Tua was unbeaten and had a lot of hype. He was short, stocky and powerful. Ike met him head on and took some huge left hooks and managed to reply with his own shots. Worked the body well and threw great combo's.

I don't know why you are drawing comparisons to Lewis-Tua. Lewis and ike were complete opposites. Lewis was such a great boxer why would he go to war vs Tua. He could outjab him from range easily. Ike was always more comfortable on the inside. He wasnt going to keep him on the end of long punches unless he was comfortable. His best punches we're his powerful hooks, play to your strengths

manos de piedra wrote:It probably was a better version that Ibeabuchi beat but come on, its not Ali/Holmes here.

Lewis boxed a good fight against Tua. I find it hard to knock what he did but praise Ibeabuchi with the same motion. Had Tua not got a granite chin Lewis probably would have stopped him even accounting for the safety first approach. He landed some big shots on him.

I'm not knocking him. I did say Lewis schooled him. My response was to a ridiculous post above mine. Agreed that Lewis could have stopped him were it not for Tua's ridiculous chin. Same with Ike.

Even when Tua was in top condition, he still wasn't exactly something special and nor was he all that difficult to out-box.

The somewhat chinny Oleg Maskaev fought Tua before Ike did and was dealing with him fairly comfortably before Tua landed late on.

Rahman also went on to give a conditioned Tua a boxing lesson before getting knocked out in controversial circumstances.

J.Benson II wrote:Even when Tua was in top condition, he still wasn't exactly something special and nor was he all that difficult to out-box.

The somewhat chinny Oleg Maskaev fought Tua before Ike did and was dealing with him fairly comfortably before Tua landed late on.

Rahman also went on to give a conditioned Tua a boxing lesson before getting knocked out in controversial circumstances.

Yes he was. Hence all kept away from him and refused to stand toe to toe. I don't think I ever saw Ike being out-boxed. He had a tremendous jab. As for sparring sessions, many boxers get done in by sparring partners and then perform better in the ring when it matters.

Ok, a few are forgetting, or are unawares, that Tua was New Zealand Amateur Champion in 1988, and that Ike didn't set foot in an amateur boxing gym until he was 17 year old in 1990. Seven years later he fought Tua (an olympic medalist) in the Pro ranks, that's an amazing achievement considering he was still learning his trade.

He did the fundamentals to a decent enough level, however, he was supremely fit, exceptionally tough, had a great chin, and could BANG!! To me that is a quality foundation upon which to develop the skill and experience necessary to be the main man...

azania wrote:

J.Benson II wrote:Even when Tua was in top condition, he still wasn't exactly something special and nor was he all that difficult to out-box.

The somewhat chinny Oleg Maskaev fought Tua before Ike did and was dealing with him fairly comfortably before Tua landed late on.

Rahman also went on to give a conditioned Tua a boxing lesson before getting knocked out in controversial circumstances.

Yes he was. Hence all kept away from him and refused to stand toe to toe. I don't think I ever saw Ike being out-boxed. He had a tremendous jab. As for sparring sessions, many boxers get done in by sparring partners and then perform better in the ring when it matters.

Yes, but Ike hadn't yet fought anyone who would have had the ability to out-box him. Somebody like Lewis would surely have had the tools to do so.

As things stands, Chris Byrd was the best boxer Ike faced and while I admit the stoppage was very impressive, its hardly like the fight had been a one-sided beat-down up to that point. It was a pretty even affair and I believe that one judge had Byrd ahead.

Byrd himself says that he arrogantly underestimated Ike's boxing ability and was expecting a comfortable decision victory over what he then thought was just a unskilled mauler. However, Byrd went on to say that he overall found Wlad a far more difficult, awkward and accomplished opponent to face.

I also agree that sparring sessions aren't a very reliable source but I still think its a cause for concern if a boxer is having problems in training, especially if its against someone quite limited like Kirk Johnson.

I just don't think a win over Tua is any real indication of future progress, he was a dangerous puncher but little else, in all of his biggest fights not once did he win on points and was comfortably outboxed a fair few times. Knock outs are a massive part of boxing but being outboxed by Maskaev and Rahman gives a strong indication of his actual boxing ability.

Wlat would be more awkward for Byrd seeing as Byrd was a LHW at best and the size differential was too much. Ike was smaller and shorter than K2. Yes Wlad and Lewis were better boxers in terms of jab and move. But I reckon Ike would have developed into a better fighter given that he has better stamina, better chin, equal in terms of strength, a serious whack and definately a better chin. Plus he was no slouch and knew how to load up in a small space. Something Lewis couldn't do and Wlad can't do.

Ghosty you don't like him. As you don't like him you dismiss him. Does getting pancaked by Rahman give you an indication of the opponent also? Ooops, always an excuse for Lewis' losses.

Knockouts happen it's part of boxing but being outboxed by Rahman would be far more damaging than being knocked out by him. I can't really be bothered with your BS any more Az so continue spouting Poopie all you want.

No way was Byrd a natural light heavyweight.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Knockouts happen it's part of boxing but being outboxed by Rahman would be far more damaging than being knocked out by him. I can't really be bothered with your BS any more Az so continue spouting Poopie all you want.

Well lightning does strike twice at the same place sometimes. Only with one guy are there a multitude of excuses. Perhaps its because he's British.

manos de piedra wrote:No way was Byrd a natural light heavyweight.

Wasn't he a mid as an amateur and weighed in at less than 200lbs whilst still carrying a little excess?

No excuses he got beaten and thats that but unlike most fighters he put the record straight in the rematch.

J.Benson II wrote:

azania wrote:

J.Benson II wrote:Even when Tua was in top condition, he still wasn't exactly something special and nor was he all that difficult to out-box.

The somewhat chinny Oleg Maskaev fought Tua before Ike did and was dealing with him fairly comfortably before Tua landed late on.

Rahman also went on to give a conditioned Tua a boxing lesson before getting knocked out in controversial circumstances.

Yes he was. Hence all kept away from him and refused to stand toe to toe. I don't think I ever saw Ike being out-boxed. He had a tremendous jab. As for sparring sessions, many boxers get done in by sparring partners and then perform better in the ring when it matters.

Yes, but Ike hadn't yet fought anyone who would have had the ability to out-box him. Somebody like Lewis would surely have had the tools to do so.

As things stands, Chris Byrd was the best boxer Ike faced and while I admit the stoppage was very impressive, its hardly like the fight had been a one-sided beat-down up to that point. It was a pretty even affair and I believe that one judge had Byrd ahead.

Byrd himself says that he arrogantly underestimated Ike's boxing ability and was expecting a comfortable decision victory over what he then thought was just a unskilled mauler. However, Byrd went on to say that he overall found Wlad a far more difficult, awkward and accomplished opponent to face.

I also agree that sparring sessions aren't a very reliable source but I still think its a cause for concern if a boxer is having problems in training, especially if its against someone quite limited like Kirk Johnson.

OMG!! what are you talking about. Chris Byrd was an exceptional boxer in his prime, he could outbox anyone of a comparable size, he just lacked the physical attributes to compete with the behemoth's. Ike probably would have KO'd Lewis in the first fight, and then in the return, Lewis would do a negative jabbing number on him (if he hadn't retired). Remember thats what Lewis did after Vit in 2003 and remember ike is 2/3 years younger than Vit. Thus, in 2003, Ike would be more experienced/skilled as well as retaining his natural physical attributes.

With regards to the Byrd comments on Wlad, these can be expected, afterall, he had fought a 35 fight Pro ...who was an Olympic superheavy Gold medalist!!?? what is your point? (Ike was a 19/20 fight up and coming pro with minimal amateur experience).

My point is, if Ike had been champ over the past decade (instead of the Klits) then the heavyweight title would be the biggest accolade in the sporting universe, STILL!! and media coverage would not be on the decline

Imperial Ghosty wrote:No excuses he got beaten and thats that but unlike most fighters he put the record straight in the rematch.

Ike did the job without the need for a rematch. Lewis's dodgy chin would not have withstood the onslaught coming his way.

I don't think anyone has said that ike beats Lewis, but he beats the rest bar maybe vitali. Holyfield + Tyson were past their primes, Wlad is chinny and bar them there have been very little else to oppose him. The heavyweight scene has been dire recently and if ike could ge toast Wlad then he could have dominated.

He always seemed a fairly natural heavyweight to me, were the cruiserweight limit 200lbs he may have fought there but 175lbs was way too low as his fight with Glover highlighted.

The Ibeabuchi who fought Tua wouldnt have beaten Lewis, he was far too open to being caught and was quite wild offensively, you can predict he improves enough to beat him when he's past his best but it's all guesswork.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:He always seemed a fairly natural heavyweight to me, were the cruiserweight limit 200lbs he may have fought there but 175lbs was way too low as his fight with Glover highlighted.

Is that why he campaigned at CW in his last few fights?

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:I don't think anyone has said that ike beats Lewis, but he beats the rest bar maybe vitali. Holyfield + Tyson were past their primes, Wlad is chinny and bar them there have been very little else to oppose him. The heavyweight scene has been dire recently and if ike could ge toast Wlad then he could have dominated.

I reckon he would have taken Lewis. Lewis for me had an air of vulnerability about him and was ultra cautious. Something Ike could exploit. Plus Lewis' jab would not have been much of a deterrent for a mobile attacking boxer. And when he does catch up with Lewis he would take him out. If it goes the distance, Lewis wins.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:The Ibeabuchi who fought Tua wouldnt have beaten Lewis, he was far too open to being caught and was quite wild offensively, you can predict he improves enough to beat him when he's past his best but it's all guesswork.

I'd like to second what you are saying. The Ike who beat Tua would not have beaten a prime Lewis and i don't think anyone in their right mind thinks that... (well, he might have scored a lucky KO and been beat in a rematch {does me saying that mean I'm not of right mind??}). Besides, whether a 15 fight novice has a right fighting for the heavyweight title is another issue altogether.

Would he have gone on to improve, and dominate, is what is up for disscussion. We are expressing opinions, and yes, it is all guesswork! However, it is fun to imagine what if...... and it is sad testamont to the heavyweight division that we have to.

The reality is it transpired he was a mad man.

I never saw much of him but if he was around now, things would remain as they are. He doesn't beat either K bro.

The Klits dont like it up them (Wlad maybe according to the more sordid posters). They like to fight at their own pace and set the tempo. Ike wouldn't allow them that luxury.