8,000 and rising and OSPREYS news Update

First topic message reminder :

New news update........

Hooker targeting more Ospreys action- http://www.ospreysrugby.com/news/5451.php

Internationals return to work at Llandarcy- http://www.ospreysrugby.com/news/5450.php

Relive the end of season PRO12 drama with our fantastic CH4MPIONS DVD- http://www.ospreysrugby.com/news/5453.php

I meant that if fans from the area are given 'free' jerseys then they are more likely to be seen wearing them around the region, so if you go into any of the bigger towns (or the university) then seeing more Dragons shirts around will raise the profile of the club a little, and maybe make a few more people buy shirts/go to games.

From my perspective, I quite liked the Scarlets navy away kit, but didn't like the green one as much, but I didn't buy either as I already had the scarlet home one and couldn't afford to pay another £50 each for the shirts - but when the sale came on in the shop I picked up a blue one much cheaper. But if I was given any of the shirts I would def wear them.

It may not be a case of didn't want, more couldn't afford...

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Sounds like a decent deal and if nothing else should increase the number of Dragons shirts seen around the area, which should have some intangible benefits.

Eh?
All they are offering is last season's second jersey that obviously wasn't popular at the time. If people didn't want it then, why should they desire it now?

Is it last seasons?

They'll desire it as it's technically free.

Think you're wrong CardiffDave, from reading this

"yup i got a free jersey booked
went to ticket office with my new season ticket holder and they took details of the size we wanted, simple as that"

Now if it's last season's shirt, why are they taking sizes and why are supporters having to book them? Surely they're already made, if it is last season's shirt?

Risca Rev wrote:Think you're wrong CardiffDave, from reading this

"yup i got a free jersey booked
went to ticket office with my new season ticket holder and they took details of the size we wanted, simple as that"

Now if it's last season's shirt, why are they taking sizes and why are supporters having to book them? Surely they're already made, if it is last season's shirt?

You could be right Risca.
What I find puzzling is why the free jersey has to be the "away" version.

I would have thought they'd made the offer with the 'away' shirt as they sell more of the home shirts and wouldn't want to cut into that profit. Seems good business sense to me

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Think you're wrong CardiffDave, from reading this

"yup i got a free jersey booked
went to ticket office with my new season ticket holder and they took details of the size we wanted, simple as that"

Now if it's last season's shirt, why are they taking sizes and why are supporters having to book them? Surely they're already made, if it is last season's shirt?

You could be right Risca.
What I find puzzling is why the free jersey has to be the "away" version.

So what you are saying is something you posted as fact was just what you thought was true. Well played with that. Before you stick the boot into something, I'd make sure you're correct next time.

Any news on Arms park improvments?

They need a supporters village as the top floor bar at the clubhouse will now be the VIP lounge on matchdays where business members get their meals and half-time snacks....these now thown in given one has to pay £250 a month x 6 months for each ticket. Still, it is a saving on the CCS diamond premier deal I had, for me and partner.

I was in that part of town a few weeks, twice, and they had a few dozen guys working on the CAP. I just walked into the stadium and had a look around and it was looking well. Not sure what they were doing exactly but the minimum is a new lick of paint and nice new green grass. There was other stuff going on in the club house but I couldn't see.

They are doing work and I am sure they won't let their corporate backers go cold.

Risca Rev wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Think you're wrong CardiffDave, from reading this

"yup i got a free jersey booked
went to ticket office with my new season ticket holder and they took details of the size we wanted, simple as that"

Now if it's last season's shirt, why are they taking sizes and why are supporters having to book them? Surely they're already made, if it is last season's shirt?

You could be right Risca.
What I find puzzling is why the free jersey has to be the "away" version.

So what you are saying is something you posted as fact was just what you thought was true. Well played with that. Before you stick the boot into something, I'd make sure you're correct next time.

You've got me wrong Risca. I want Newport GD to be a great side. For that reason I will question what is happening at Dave Parade. I may get it right and I may get it wrong, but my intention will remain the same.

What numbers are we at know for the Ospreys season tickets ? Perhaps Shifty might have some news on this, has the feeding frenzy slowed down yet ?

I wonder what the Blues sales are like as well - they both sound like their doing well.

I worry that the late announcements of signings for the Scarlets might be hampering season ticket sales...

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I wonder what the Blues sales are like as well - they both sound like their doing well.

I worry that the late announcements of signings for the Scarlets might be hampering season ticket sales...

It does seem odd that they have not come out with any figures yet, I assume that they are not going as good as they would like.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I wonder what the Blues sales are like as well - they both sound like their doing well.

I worry that the late announcements of signings for the Scarlets might be hampering season ticket sales...

It does seem odd that they have not come out with any figures yet, I assume that they are not going as good as they would like.

I hope not as the good feeling and rising crowds around PyS doesn't seem to be related to big signings.

But you could well be right...

Smirnoff - whether it has anything to do with signings, or coaches leaving etc I don't know. But usually by now the regions start to point out how well season tickets are selling in comparison to the previous season etc.

More good news (i think)

With season memberships soaring to record levels ahead of 2012/13, there is further good news for the region as the new-look Ospreys Executive Club is also proving a big hit, with dozens of individuals signing up ahead of the new season.

Powered by Mercedes Benz of Swansea, the Executive Club replaces the old Business Club, and has been designed with all Ospreylian businesses in mind, as well as individuals who appreciate a special environment on matchday. Unlike its predecessor, the Ospreys Executive Club is now a full season members-only product and can no longer be purchased match-by-match.
The Executive Club was launched at a special event at the Liberty Stadium during PRO12 Final week at the end of May, with a second event hosted with Ospreys' media partner, South Wales Evening Post, at the Grape and Olive in Swansea Marina, and early uptake has been strong with numbers signed up already 50 per cent up on the final Business Club totals for the season just ended.

Yarnie Guthrie, Ospreys Business Development Manager, said:

"The Business community of Ospreylia is responding well to the new-look Executive Club giving us a clear indication that we've got the mix right for this coming season. We have redeveloped the product to create a very special, exclusive environment but with much more flexibility regarding dining options and a much more favourable price point.

"We hope both individuals and businesses from around the region get in quick to ensure they don't miss out on the opportunity because once the memberships are sold, the only way to get into the club will be as a members guest."

The changes have been made following an organisational review of matchday hospitality offerings, allowing the commercial team at the Ospreys to offer a product with more flexibility, more features, a clearer identity and a lower fixed price point, appealing to a much wider section of the corporate sector.

Mike Hayden, Director of Corporate Banking at Barclays Bank, is one of those who have already signed up for the Executive Club and he commented:

"We have not been members of the Business Club during recent seasons and like every business have looked at budgets during recent challenging economic conditions. However, we have taken the decision to join the Ospreys Executive Club for the forthcoming season and have access to the Ospreys Hospitality area. A major factor for us joining is the new price point [of joining fee + installments] which makes it much more flexible and affordable for businesses. We look forward to hosting our clients and guests there next year and being part of Ospreys successes".


http://www.ospreysrugby.com/news/5414.php

Interesting - they must be confident of shifting all their Executive Club spaces if they're only selling them as season long rather than just a match day product

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Interesting - they must be confident of shifting all their Executive Club spaces if they're only selling them as season long rather than just a match day product

Either that or people were only signing up for the big games. Now they get to put out figures for all the games, even if they're not attended. It depends on how much more it is and whether they're attracting new people or the same or fewer for all the games.

One thing is for sure, the Ospreys 'attendances' are going to be high next year even if no-one goes.

More news - Surgery for winger- http://www.ospreysrugby.com/news/5426.php

Liberty Stadium pre-season opposition confirmed- http://www.ospreysrugby.com/news/5424.php

and - Ospreys add two new Physios to medical team-http://www.ospreysrugby.com/news/5423.php

Yay Walker is out injured.

The Ospreys have to sign someone now right?

Hopefully

gowales wrote:Yay Walker is out injured.

The Ospreys have to sign someone now right?

I hope not, lets give Luke Morgan a run.

Off to France pre season training and a game vs Clermont as a warm up

Shifty wrote:

gowales wrote:Yay Walker is out injured.

The Ospreys have to sign someone now right?

I hope not, lets give Luke Morgan a run.

Luke Morgan for sure.

Why would the Ospreys want to sign someone when the academy is working so well?

gowales wrote:Yay Walker is out injured.

The Ospreys have to sign someone now right?

Happy because one of our players is out injured?

maestegmafia wrote:

Shifty wrote:

gowales wrote:Yay Walker is out injured.

The Ospreys have to sign someone now right?

I hope not, lets give Luke Morgan a run.

Luke Morgan for sure.

Why would the Ospreys want to sign someone when the academy is working so well?

Because there will 4 full time back three players at the O's next year, if you include Luke Morgan it's 5 but he isn't on a full contract yet.
That isn't enough for a pro rugby side that has ambitions of silverware.

Quite frankly Eli Walker has already shown that he isn't up to it at HC level last year, and that was in a weak pool. With Toulouse and Leicester in the pool this time round i fear the sight of him or Luke Morgan starting on the wings.

I think Luke Morgan has the potential to be a better player quicker than Eli Walker.

I wouldn't write off the chances of players who are so young on a few senior games though GW.

Walker may well develop better in his early twenties rather than as a teenager.

That's my worry, they are hoping that they will develop into good players instead of knowing. Who knows in a few years they may discard both Morgan and Walker for not being good enough like they have done with Phillips and Prydie and be back to square one. When will it end?

What are the season ticket sales now ? Doeas anybody know ? Have the Sales slowed down or are they still ticking over ?

gowales wrote:That's my worry, they are hoping that they will develop into good players instead of knowing.

Who knows in a few years they may discard both Morgan and Walker for not being good enough like they have done with Phillips and Prydie and be back to square one. When will it end?

That is one of the most ridiculous posts I have read on here.

How could you know that a player will prove to be an exceptional senior talent other than with the obvious concept of knowing the game, and having a good idea of who will and wont make it. Just as any team in rugby would.

You can see which players are going to be superstars. George Ford? Aaron Cruden? Julian Savea? You know players who have world class potential.
Eli Walker and Luke Morgan will not quite frankly, though they could be solid regional performers which is what the Ospreys are looking to develop i suppose... My main concern is that they are looking at Walker and Morgan being the main wingers for the Ospreys in a few years.That worries the hell out of me.
I feel to really become a strong European club we need to add some gloss in the back three and attack in general. Especially with Bowe, Williams and Byrne gone.

gowales wrote:You can see which players are going to be superstars. George Ford? Aaron Cruden? Julian Savea? You know players who have world class potential.
Eli Walker and Luke Morgan will not quite frankly, though they could be solid regional performers which is what the Ospreys are looking to develop i suppose... My main concern is that they are looking at Walker and Morgan being the main wingers for the Ospreys in a few years.That worries the hell out of me.
I feel to really become a strong European club we need to add some gloss in the back three and attack in general. Especially with Bowe, Williams and Byrne gone.

George Ford?

Cruden and Savea looked little better than Luke Morgan with the little exposure to the public viewing that players under the age of twenty get.

The coaches work with these guys day in day out in the academies and at the regions, I would say that with the success of young talent coming through the academy developing into very worthy senior talent the coaches know what they are doing.

Hanno Dirksen, Ashley Beck, Rhys Webb, Justin Tupuric are all great examples of the ospreys coaches spotting talent and backing it.

I do t understand your negative assessment when you can planely see so much more success.

For every Webb, Tipuric or Beck (don't think Dirksen is going to amount to much) that the academy produces, fifteen or twenty from each age group end up being cast aside.

Players can look potential world beaters at 17/18, like Phillips and Prydie, but fall short when asked to step up to full time pro rugby.

Academies are important, of course, but the regions are too focused on them and Welsh rugby needs a stronger domestic league to discover players that are later developers (e.g Lee Byrne).

A balanced approach, rather than sticking all the eggs in the academy basket.

Casterelli you have some very valid points, a promising eighteen year old who might not fullfil their potential at that age may also develop later. Prydie, Owen, Phillips may all become better at their new regions.

Also consider that for example Tom Prydie was never given much game time, with Shane Williams and Tommy Bowe ahead of him he would have to wait his turn. He also had a very long injury. Gareth Owen and Phillips are similar stories...!

He will get good game time at the Dragons, better than at the Ospreys. They O's chose Ross Jones, same age group, over Prydie.

Two players get developed rather than one, all good.

The regional academies have done more for Welsh rugby in the last decade, than anything in the last forty years, at all levels of Welsh rugby, schools to International. I think they are well worth investing in, cherishing, nurturing and developing.

The academies are making better players, as you said, some will go on to be internationals, maybe Lions, others will improve the premiership and others just the regions.

A couple of overseas players may benefit short term goals but they belay long term.

The Welsh regions can't afford to compete in an international European market for senior talented foreign players, that's why we don't get good ones when we do get overseas lads involved.

The academies are the way forward. Produce our own stars, it's a far more economically viable way to become more competitive at all levels than any alternative. It's what the Kiwis, Aussies and Boks do, and they are the three best in the business.

Yeah Maes, pretty much agree with you.

Academies are important, but as a very small country we can't focus solely on the kids who have found their way into the regional set up in their mid teens. Too many potential professionals will slip through the net that way. We also need to spot potential in players in the schools, the youth teams and in the domestic league.

And also, regrettably, take a leaf out of England's book and spot the odd passport switcher here and there along the way. 'Tis the balanced approach.

I don't agree with the passport switcher comment. I don't think it works. The English effort at the RWC showed that, Hape etc etc etc proved not great choices.

Though Dirksen is looking very good and could prove me wrong.

Mind you he is a long way off taking a place from welsh players like North, Cuthbert or Robinson.

Casartelli wrote:And also, regrettably, take a leaf out of England's book and spot the odd passport switcher here and there along the way. 'Tis the balanced approach.

I think Wales wrote the book on passport switching matey.

Can we please just have a thread that goes smoothly without resorting to petty nonsense.

Just about every team has a "passport switcher" in them, so it really isn't going to go far in any debate.

biltongbek wrote:Can we please just have a thread that goes smoothly without resorting to petty nonsense.

He started it, etc.

Ok, I'll be the bigger man (walks away muttering)

sugarNspikes wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Can we please just have a thread that goes smoothly without resorting to petty nonsense.

He started it, etc.

Ok, I'll be the bigger man (walks away muttering)

Not really, he used it as an example ( albeit another example may have been more prudent) and you just couldn't wait to sink your teeth in, eh?

biltongbek wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Can we please just have a thread that goes smoothly without resorting to petty nonsense.

He started it, etc.

Ok, I'll be the bigger man (walks away muttering)

Not really, he used it as an example ( albeit another example may have been more prudent) and you just couldn't wait to sink your teeth in, eh?

Ah, ok. I'm off to think up some non-prudent examples of my own (kidding! - or am I?)

maestegmafia wrote:

gowales wrote:You can see which players are going to be superstars. George Ford? Aaron Cruden? Julian Savea? You know players who have world class potential.
Eli Walker and Luke Morgan will not quite frankly, though they could be solid regional performers which is what the Ospreys are looking to develop i suppose... My main concern is that they are looking at Walker and Morgan being the main wingers for the Ospreys in a few years.That worries the hell out of me.
I feel to really become a strong European club we need to add some gloss in the back three and attack in general. Especially with Bowe, Williams and Byrne gone.

George Ford?

Cruden and Savea looked little better than Luke Morgan with the little exposure to the public viewing that players under the age of twenty get.

The coaches work with these guys day in day out in the academies and at the regions, I would say that with the success of young talent coming through the academy developing into very worthy senior talent the coaches know what they are doing.

Hanno Dirksen, Ashley Beck, Rhys Webb, Justin Tupuric are all great examples of the ospreys coaches spotting talent and backing it.

I do t understand your negative assessment when you can planely see so much more success.

My negative assessment is that Walker and Morgan aren't good players

maestegmafia wrote:Casterelli you have some very valid points, a promising eighteen year old who might not fullfil their potential at that age may also develop later. Prydie, Owen, Phillips may all become better at their new regions.

Also consider that for example Tom Prydie was never given much game time, with Shane Williams and Tommy Bowe ahead of him he would have to wait his turn. He also had a very long injury. Gareth Owen and Phillips are similar stories...!

He will get good game time at the Dragons, better than at the Ospreys. They O's chose Ross Jones, same age group, over Prydie.

Two players get developed rather than one, all good.

The regional academies have done more for Welsh rugby in the last decade, than anything in the last forty years, at all levels of Welsh rugby, schools to International. I think they are well worth investing in, cherishing, nurturing and developing.

The academies are making better players, as you said, some will go on to be internationals, maybe Lions, others will improve the premiership and others just the regions.

A couple of overseas players may benefit short term goals but they belay long term.

The Welsh regions can't afford to compete in an international European market for senior talented foreign players, that's why we don't get good ones when we do get overseas lads involved.

The academies are the way forward. Produce our own stars, it's a far more economically viable way to become more competitive at all levels than any alternative. It's what the Kiwis, Aussies and Boks do, and they are the three best in the business.

In Yurop, its Leinster. One team for the Heino. The other - for the PRO12. Catch us if ye can.

Our kids walked away with the PRO12 proper - on their own. Big problem was, we brought back our tired, Heino-winning stars - for the playoff Final a week later. Our kids could have won it. And it really pished me off, that we didnt let the team that won the League proper - play in the Final of it


The O's are losing their overpaid HC losers. Have kopped on to themselves and have followed Scarlets. Developing your own, is the only way to go. Its The Leinster Way.

Good to see that the Welsh are starting to kop on to that at last. Refreshing even. It will up the level of the PRO12 over time. For sure.

Bit worried about de Blues tho.

Dragons, by design, have bought into this way too(they had to) and I pray they make it to the 3rd or maybe even 2nd best team in Wales, on the back of it. Just need the support of their fans and the belief to achieve it. It would be righteous. The Dragons are my adopted Welsh region.

I fancy Scarlets to by-pass them all, over the next 2/3 years. They actually planned developing their own and - its working. Whilst Ospreys and Blues tried to buy it - and failed.

With the exodus of disillusioned & experienced Welsh players to France. And with the limiting salary cap, the next few years, are crucial for Welsh regional rugby.

And Welsh International rugby itself. One feeds the other.

If only the Regions had real live support, instead of the stay-at-home, TV-watching whiners and posters - dreaming of dead club-days past. If only they filled their 4 stadiums. That might work.

Just a suggestion mind.

gowales wrote:My negative assessment is that Walker and Morgan aren't good players

Your negative assessment that the Ospreys coaching staff don't know what they are doing scouting young talented academy players and should buy foreigners instead, when they have done so well brining on academy players like Captain Justin Tupuric, Dan Biggar, Ashley Beck, Rhys Webb, Ian Evans, Alun Wynn Jones, Richard Hibbard, Hanno Dirksen etc etc etc.

gowales wrote:Yay Walker is out injured.

The Ospreys have to sign someone now right?

gowales wrote:That's my worry, they are hoping that they will develop into good players instead of knowing. Who knows in a few years they may discard both Morgan and Walker for not being good enough like they have done with Phillips and Prydie and be back to square one. When will it end?

 

maestegmafia wrote:

Your negative assessment that the Ospreys coaching staff don't know what they are doing scouting young talented academy players and should buy foreigners instead, when they have done so well brining on academy players like Captain Justin Tupuric, Dan Biggar, Ashley Beck, Rhys Webb, Ian Evans, Alun Wynn Jones, Richard Hibbard, Hanno Dirksen etc etc etc.

No. I don't mean that. The Ospreys do a fantastic job in developing talent as you have alluded too.

I'm saying that Walker and Morgan are not part of the good bunch. There seems to be a dearth of really good outside backs at the moment in the Ospreys squad or Academy for that matter, Walker and Morgan will never be Welsh internationals anyway, so what would be the harm in bringing in some quality foreign players to help bring the youngsters through and help win some more silverware? Tipuric, Beck, Biggar, Webb etc... all proved that they are good enough to play at this level, Walker and Morgan have not and certainly not at HC level.

I know you see the regions as some development tool, but i see it as my entertainment, my team. I want to watch them win and play stylish rugby. I don't care who plays for them as long as they help us win. If the youngsters are good enough they will come through and push for a place.

[quote="gowales"]

maestegmafia wrote:

Your negative assessment that the Ospreys coaching staff don't know what they are doing scouting young talented academy players and should buy foreigners instead, when they have done so well brining on academy players like Captain Justin Tupuric, Dan Biggar, Ashley Beck, Rhys Webb, Ian Evans, Alun Wynn Jones, Richard Hibbard, Hanno Dirksen etc etc etc.

No. I don't mean that. The Ospreys do a fantastic job in developing talent as you have alluded too.

I'm saying that Walker and Morgan are not part of the good bunch. There seems to be a dearth of really good outside backs at the moment in the Ospreys squad or Academy for that matter, Walker and Morgan will never be Welsh internationals anyway, so what would be the harm in bringing in some quality foreign players to help bring the youngsters through and help win some more silverware? Tipuric, Beck, Biggar, Webb etc... all proved that they are good enough to play at this level, Walker and Morgan have not and certainly not at HC level.

I know you see the regions as some development tool, but i see it as my entertainment, my team. I want to watch them win and play stylish rugby. I don't care who plays for them as long as they help us win. If the youngsters are good enough they will come through and push for a place. [/quote]

Excellent point.

I see the regions academies as a development tool not the regions. The regions have to be successful in their own right.

But looking at both the long term plan and the economic viability of their existence, they need to develop from within.

What i think you are saying is that you think the Orpreys need to copy the Irish Province model for success? Development of youth players through academies plus buying overseas players.

What the Ospreys and other welsh regions are trying to do is follow the SH model and become self sufficient.

Rugby since professionalisation is a market. It was before, but tempered to a certain extent by amateur traditions. I'd compare Welsh and New Zealand rugby to their respective agriculture.

Over 20 years ago NZ ditched agricultural subsidies. Their agricultural sector faced a lot of pain but slashed its costs and survives. It is held up as a model for all others to emulate. Wales' farmers' profit just happens to be the amount of SFP (subsidy) they get from Europe, or less.

New Zealand's record internationally and in Super Rugby speaks for itself. Welsh regions are nipple fed TV money subsidies and have failed to get past the semi finals of the HC.

So, let's all copy New Zealand shall we?

Er, no. New Zealand's farmers are good at self promotion, but their wives work and they have to wash glasses or fix cars to make ends meet. The All Blacks have blackmailed their players to play domestically, but rugby in New Zealand is almost broke and if a critical mass of the better players break ranks and take the NH shilling New Zealand rugby could go pop.

Welsh farmers haven't copied New Zealand (with a few exceptions) because our conditions are different. We dont have a 10 month growing season, thousands of acres manageable by one man. We cut our cloth and the market dictates that we can survive. Our regions can't keep the best players and we can't compete in the HC. But, we can produce quality players cheaply and if England and France want to pay our better players pension funds AND allow us to develop more players to regional standard at least in specialist positions then the National team benefits.

Ireland is different. You can regulate your own taxes, had four pre existing provinces playing representational rugby. Your success in europe is your aim. That success will keep our heads above water as the Pro 12 develops. Thanks for that.

Wow. Sublime post. That was an education that cuts deep. See real life btw? See the financial restraints? See the culture? See the rugby?

So, why arent ye as good as the Keewees then? Same profile and better sheeps.

Or are ye? Keewees are terminally boring tho. Isint it? There's a huge differ. Or is it?

Love you long time.

I'm deeply honoured that you should think that, oh wise one

Interesting comparative Glas mate.