Unfair, Unprofessional, Misleading and a "Greek Tragedy"

Just listening to Virginia Wade and Greg Rusedski discuss Murrays dramatic match against Neiminen. I'm not sure of all the details but for the first set and a half Murray gave all the impession that he was in agony and was going to withdraw and had 3 MTO's. Neiminen must have thought he was through to the 3rd round. Then Murray completely recovered as far as his game goes.

Wade and Rusedski didn't hold back with their criticism of Murray's behaviour. Wade said she was in no doubt that Murray was hurting but he turned it into a "Greek tragedy" and that this was not professional. At one point he talked to the umpire and it looked like he was going to default. Rusedski wondered about the injury (is it his back a pinched nerve... what is the "reasoning" behind it... it will be interesting for us all to see what the real injury is) and how he was able to suddenly start playing so well. This put Neimenen in a difficult position. Wade called it "unfair" and said it was no longer a competative match.

They both went on to say it's not the first time Murray has woken with something hurting and been indecisive about whether or not to play and people are left not knowing whats going on. Wade wanted to go on and talk about a particular Davis cup match but didn't get the chance as it looked like she was told they were moving on to the next live action. In fact both looked like they were itching to say more.

IMO Murray will have to try a little harder if he doesn't want people to talk about his back... It does appear to be a big weapon (his back that is... )

In professional tennis you can never expect to get things easily.

Nieminen made the error of expecting just that and completely lost his focus when things turned out otherwise. A big error from the Finn, of whom you'd expect better because of all his experience.

What did Wade mean by Greek Tragedy - the current Greek Tragedy could take the rest of Europe and its banks down with it.

hawkeye wrote:... if he doesn't want people to talk about his back...

But all this gossip must really get his back up.

Nore Staat wrote:What did Wade mean by Greek Tragedy - the current Greek Tragedy could take the rest of Europe and its banks down with it.

I think we can safely presume Wade meant that Andy was being very very dramatic...

Hard cheese hawkeye. Others are closer to the mark:-

Jonathan Overend
BBC tennis correspondent
"I've sat through some confusingly dramatic Murray matches over the years, but this one just about tops the lot. The self-belief which enabled him to turn a lost match around was nothing short of amazing. In the very first game he looked a beaten man, slapping returns like he had no chance, and when he starting patting serves into the court, Nieminen wasn't alone in expecting a handshake. But Murray is not a quitter. Even though he could barely move, he somehow still believed he could win. He knew that Nieminen would start choking, which he did, he knew that skill would win the day, which it did. But the pained expression returned near the end to suggest we haven't heard the last of the problem. For the time being, let's just celebrate the win. An amazingly gutsy effort. ."

Or perhaps:-

Annabel Croft
Former British number one and BBC 5 live sports extra summariser
"This can't be good for his preparations for Wimbledon. Everyone's dreams are around the Grand Slams and that's what he plays for but clearly there is an issue here. If your body is telling you you can't play you will only do further damage by playing on. He wants to win the French Open but that does not look possible in this condition."

Or how about ITV4's commentator Jim Courier insisting Andy Murray should have pulled out and still feels he should do so now without playing another match. The voice of experience talking as he recalls having similar back spasm problems. But of course you chose to ignore the facts and went for negative viewpoints as per normal.

Right off to scour other media sources for similar takeas on the Murray match rather than your make believe hawkeye.

Everyone knows a 'Tragedy' is when the feelin's gone and you can't go on.
Yet Murray did go on. Ergo, not a tragedy. Case closed.

Tu quoque Hawk! I mean: you Nadal fangirl or woman or whatever you are. This time your timely article is totally fluffy given the fact that Murray could not literally move for a set , and didn't pretend to be injured for the brief space of an MTO like others Spanish players that you know so well ......

Murray is a drama queen; it's something the two guys of same age share, though Andy is the clear leader in that department. I have no doubt he was hurting but he's played it all up since he first emerged at Queens (fittingly).

What is this BS Julius, why are you deleting all my posts, my last post should not have been deleted it was not in violation of the rules or the libellous in anyway.

bogbrush wrote:Murray is a drama queen; it's something the two guys of same age share, though Andy is the clear leader in that department. I have no doubt he was hurting but he's played it all up since he first emerged at Queens (fittingly).

Hmmmm who should I listen to? Yourself with no tennis experience in your life or ex-pro and slam winner Jim Courier? No contest - Jim knows best especially as he saw the match in the flesh.

socal, yes it was - see my PM. If you disagree, take it to the Admins.

Phew! No need to worry Murray is fine. This from his post match interview.

Q. Do you have any concerns that you might be jeopardizing your chances for Wimbledon or looking further ahead by carrying on play?


ANDY MURRAY: No. It's a completely different thing to what I had beforehand. So if it was the same thing, then, yeah, I would be really, really concerned about Wimbledon and obviously the Olympics.


But so long as, you know, what I'm getting told by doctors and the physios is, you know, if it is just a muscle spasm, then, yeah, that's nothing to be overly concerned by.

But they are, when they happen, very difficult to shake off, especially, you know, when, you know, it's early morning. It takes a bit of time for your body to warm up and stuff.


So, yeah, I'm not doing any permanent damage by finishing a match like I did today.


http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/news/interviews/2012-05-31/201205311338480058975.html

CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Murray is a drama queen; it's something the two guys of same age share, though Andy is the clear leader in that department. I have no doubt he was hurting but he's played it all up since he first emerged at Queens (fittingly).

Hmmmm who should I listen to? Yourself with no tennis experience in your life or ex-pro and slam winner Jim Courier? No contest - Jim knows best especially as he saw the match in the flesh.

I see you're selective about which ex-pro you listen to, but you could also choose to look at the facts and make your own mind up.

I think it's all a matter of record how Andy has flounced about numerous times. I have no doubt he was genuinely hurt but there seems to be a way of carrying yourself in those situations and he chooses the angsty teenager option.

Where was the angst today???

CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Murray is a drama queen; it's something the two guys of same age share, though Andy is the clear leader in that department. I have no doubt he was hurting but he's played it all up since he first emerged at Queens (fittingly).

Hmmmm who should I listen to? Yourself with no tennis experience in your life or ex-pro and slam winner Jim Courier? No contest - Jim knows best especially as he saw the match in the flesh.

If it had been federer you know BB and the rest of the fed sycophants on this site would be talking about Fed's courage and how he won a grandslam match nearly crippled and how they should erect a statue to Fed at RG based on his heroic second round performance. This is one thing I have come to realize from following tennis, when Roger does it is good. The guy had a back, managed to gut it out, probably will lose soon because he isn't a 100 percent and this is his worst surface. Not much to see here.

And sorry but he carried himself very well today. Can you tell me in what way he didn't today? If you wish I'll dig out tonnes of match reports (and not just British) that will back that up.

socal - the voice of reason








as long as it doesn't concern Fognini

Where's Yummymummy these days?

Even though you could not say a bad word about Murray with her around I actually quite fancied her.

socal1976 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Murray is a drama queen; it's something the two guys of same age share, though Andy is the clear leader in that department. I have no doubt he was hurting but he's played it all up since he first emerged at Queens (fittingly).

Hmmmm who should I listen to? Yourself with no tennis experience in your life or ex-pro and slam winner Jim Courier? No contest - Jim knows best especially as he saw the match in the flesh.

If it had been federer you know BB and the rest of the fed sycophants on this site would be talking about Fed's courage and how he won a grandslam match nearly crippled and how they should erect a statue to Fed at RG based on his heroic second round performance. This is one thing I have come to realize from following tennis, when Roger does it is good. The guy had a back, managed to gut it out, probably will lose soon because he isn't a 100 percent and this is his worst surface. Not much to see here.

I knew you'd stick up for someone who plays up injury and winces around the court while being fit for 6 hours.

Murray doesn't feign, he was hurt sure enough, but you know what I mean eh?

CaledonianCraig wrote:And sorry but he carried himself very well today. Can you tell me in what way he didn't today? If you wish I'll dig out tonnes of match reports (and not just British) that will back that up.

Maybe he could just suck it up a bit more.

Suck it up a bit more?? How so?? After all he could barely move in the first set, took a medical time out, received bouts of treatment during changeovers and contemplated pulling out pre-match and battle through the pain without any angst you say you saw. Seems that we can't win with you as in that Bogomolov Jnr was wrong for quitting yet here you are having digs at Murrray for bottling it out and winning from a hopeless position.

Mad for Chelsea wrote: socal - the voice of reason








as long as it doesn't concern Fognini

Lol MFC, everyone has their differences of opinion I think i am quite logical on the fogi issue as well. I can guarantee you if the tables where turned and instead of Murray it was fed suffering from a bad back there would be no criticism in the media or online. In fact the fed worshippers would be using the pages of 606v2 to tout Roger's courage and playing through the pain. Because Roger's poopy smells like chanel perfume.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Suck it up a bit more?? How so?? After all he could barely move in the first set, took a medical and battle through thje pain without any angst you say you saw.

How much of a battle we can judge only by what we see. What we see is determined by his actions.

You see where I'm going with this?

socal1976 wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote: socal - the voice of reason








as long as it doesn't concern Fognini

Lol MFC, everyone has their differences of opinion I think i am quite logical on the fogi issue as well. I can guarantee you if the tables where turned and instead of Murray it was fed suffering from a bad back there would be no criticism in the media or online. In fact the fed worshippers would be using the pages of 606v2 to tout Roger's courage and playing through the pain. Because Roger's poopy smells like chanel perfume.

Angry reaction. Try the decaf.

We will have to wait and see what happens when Federer flounces around during a match with injury induced exhibitions.
I mean, been waiting 13 years so it must happen soon eh?

Yes and what I saw was him having a medical time out, three bouts of treatment on changeovers, Courier noted he never sat for over an hour and a half so seems crystal clear he was in pain and Courier was in a position to empathise as he has suffered from these back spasms as well but he chose to do the handshake which he believes Murray should have done today. Do you see now where I am coming from.

I still haven't see the match. I shall try and catch highlights if I can.

As far as I am concerned if Nieminen who has been a pro for many a year cannot build on first set lead and sustain a similar level for 3 sets, then frankily shouldn't lift a racquet again in his life!

Oh like I keep saying, I'm quite sure he was injured. Never questioned it at all.

legendkillarV2 wrote:I still haven't see the match. I shall try and catch highlights if I can.

As far as I am concerned if Nieminen who has been a pro for many a year cannot build on first set lead and sustain a similar level for 3 sets, then frankily shouldn't lift a racquet again in his life!

lk he had the first set lead because Murray was virtually playing at a standstill due to his back. A fully fit Murray would have won the match, a debilitated Murray continuing as he had in the first set and Niemenen would have won but when Murray's movement improved and began to be competitive the writing was on the wall. True Niemenen imploded but Murray also played a lot of lovely and aggressive tennis and won through. Enjoy.

Just looked at match stats. 78% first serves in? Doesn't do the 'injury' much credit

legendkillarV2 wrote:Just looked at match stats. 78% first serves in? Doesn't do the 'injury' much credit

Watch and judge for yourself.

LK

I watched the match.

Murray could barely walk in the first set and a half. He was in serious trouble. He called the physio, the problem seemed to dissipate and his movement gradually got better.

The first serve % was only high because he was rolling them in at half pace.

bogbrush wrote:Oh like I keep saying, I'm quite sure he was injured. Never questioned it at all.

No you never question the injuries you just call them out for not having a high enough pain threshold to suit your warped tastes.

Aha thanks Emanci and CC

socal1976 wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Oh like I keep saying, I'm quite sure he was injured. Never questioned it at all.

No you never question the injuries you just call them out for not having a high enough pain threshold to suit your warped tastes.

I was talking to the grown-up.

Bit confused by the criticism here. There is a suggestion - or certainly an undertone - that Murray was not really injured, or nowhere near as badly injured as his restricted movement, MTO's and grimaces suggested.

So, assuming that was the case, are people saying that Murray deliberately faked it and losing 10 of the first 13 games was all part of a sinister and brilliant plan?

Come on!!! Utterly ridiculous!

Danny_1982 wrote:Bit confused by the criticism here. There is a suggestion - or certainly an undertone - that Murray was not really injured, or nowhere near as badly injured as his restricted movement, MTO's and grimaces suggested.

So, assuming that was the case, are people saying that Murray deliberately faked it and losing 10 of the first 13 games was all part of a sinister and brilliant plan?

Come on!!! Utterly ridiculous!

Sadly Dany you should not have expected anything less from some people on here.

I thought it might be worth re-posting this as so many have missed it

Murray is fine. This from his post match interview.

Q.
Do you have any concerns that you might be jeopardizing your chances for Wimbledon or looking further ahead by carrying on play?


ANDY MURRAY: No. It's a completely different thing to what I had beforehand. So if it was the same thing, then, yeah, I would be really, really concerned about Wimbledon and obviously the Olympics.


But so long as, you know, what I'm getting told by doctors and the physios is, you know, if it is just a muscle spasm, then, yeah, that's nothing to be overly concerned by.

But they are, when they happen, very difficult to shake off, especially, you know, when, you know, it's early morning. It takes a bit of time for your body to warm up and stuff.


So, yeah, I'm not doing any permanent damage by finishing a match like I did today.


http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/news/interviews/2012-05-31/201205311338480058975.html

It was a not a back problem but a muscle spasm and he speculates it was brought on by not being warmed up and having to play in the "early" morning. He is also not very happy with Virginia Wade. (this from todays Times sorry PPV but as usual well worth it)

Commentating on television, Virginia Wade, Britain’s last Wimbledon champion, suggested that Murray was a drama queen, and she was not exactly Queen Ginny in his eyes. “There are people who have to come out and say something controversial when really they should be supportive, or maybe ask me a question first before commenting on it,” he said. “I’ve known her [Wade] since I was a really young kid. She used to do coaching stuff with my mum, so to me that’s quite disappointing. She has no idea what I was feeling on the court. She doesn’t know what was happening 20 minutes before I went out on to the court, what I was feeling, what I was doing. There’s nothing more I can say about that.”

I think Virginia Wade knows Murray quite well. And even more interesting this from the usually reticent Ivan Lendl

“Andy’s having so much fun at the moment,” he said. Later, as he hurried from the hurly-burly of Roland Garros, Murray’s coach stopped only to say that “it’s always good to get through a match like that”,

"Fun"? Ha ha! I'm sorry that some people don't like me talking about this story but I can't help it it's... well I'm not sure what it is but surely even the biggest Murray fans must be secretly wondering what exactly is going on. They just don't want anyone else to talk about it.

Your point? You claimed and hinted that he was faking but you are now back-tracking and admitting he had back spasms? End of the day he was hampered by an intermittent injury so Jim Courier's take on it was spot on whereas yours well......wasn't. Surprise surprise. Bite the bullet and admit it.

Wondering what's going on?

Murray has a long term back injury, that he says has improved greatly over the last few weeks and now - whilst not 100% - it's good enough for him to compete. Today it seemed that it had regressed and that he may have to pull out, but it turns out it was back spasms rather than the same injury.

This new problem may or may not be still affecting him for the next match, and for the rest of the tournament.

There. That's what's going on. You can stop wondering now.

So it was back spasms this time?

For a guy who was down and out for the first set and a half he did an amazing "Lazarus" like return to fitness. Still I guess there's never a dull moment with Andy.

newballs wrote:So it was back spasms this time?

Yes as diagnosed by commentator Jim Courier who testified himself how painful they are and he himself confessed to retiring from matches with them.

newballs wrote:So it was back spasms this time?

For a guy who was down and out for the first set and a half he did an amazing "Lazarus" like return to fitness. Still I guess there's never a dull moment with Andy.

newballs. I don't think it was a "back" spasm. This from the same article

He had woken up yesterday with a bit of a spasm and unable to put any weight on his left leg. It developed into an ache that meant the early start could conspire against him.


Maybe a leg spasm that turned into a leg ache? Anyway it's all for the good as according to Lendl he's "having so much fun at the moment". I wonder if all the other players are watching him have this fun?

Newballs - you sound cynical about his injury. You do realise you are therefore suggesting Murray purposefully lost 10 of the first 13 games. Why would he do that? What logical reason can anyone give as to why he would do that? It's a ridiculous suggestion!

HE - Murray does not use injuries as excuses unlike other players (one specific name comes to mind) and he has only ever pulled out of one match. As to what other players think, I doubt he cares much.

I'd say he cares as much as he does for people with a slightly strange obsession for talking about him so much in a constantly negative and unbalanced way.

Danny_1982 wrote:Bit confused by the criticism here. There is a suggestion - or certainly an undertone - that Murray was not really injured, or nowhere near as badly injured as his restricted movement, MTO's and grimaces suggested.

So, assuming that was the case, are people saying that Murray deliberately faked it and losing 10 of the first 13 games was all part of a sinister and brilliant plan?

Come on!!! Utterly ridiculous!

Yes Danny, now you get a taste of the sheer insanity of the illogic i have to deal with. Frankly, it is not clear what exactly Murray's detractors are really talking about. They say that they aren't calling him a faker, ok then he is injured and the rules allow for treatment so what exactly is controversial at all about the situation. Or are they saying he is injured but just not as manly as their sun god Roger who would have walked around nonchalantly if hurting as much as murray (note they don't know how much murray was hurting or not). In short, there seems to be some sort of allusion that A) he is a faker or B) that he is hurt but well just a big pussssy and not as manly as Roger the teutonic knight of our age.

For me the issue is that Murray gives the impression of being in pain in a lot of his matches (ie grimacing all the time), leading to a boy who cried wolf kind of scenario. I admit, I don't see why he would do this; the only reason would be that it's difficult as an opponent to play against - you tend to lose focus, and end up taking your foot off the pedal out of pity. I didn't watch the match, but it sounds like Murray was rolling in serves at about 80mph in the first set - Nieminen (apologies for spelling) must have thought that his opponent was going to retire any moment, and his mind was probably already drifting away from the match at hand. For Murray to then seemingly shake off this injury must have been a shock, although Nieminen should really have provided more resistance in the last 2 sets. The entire match seems, quite frankly, bizarre. How can you go from being virtually immobile to handing out a 6-1 6-2 drubbing in the space of about an hour?

Chazfazzer, Jim Courier pin-pointed what Andy was going through and was insisting he should pull out of the match throughout and even after the match he maintained that as he had suffered the same back spasms in his career and retired from a match/or matches but Andy soldiered on. Perhaps the reason it was so bizarre to you and others is that 95% of other tennis players would have retired from the match not allowing for the injury to lessen as it obviously did. Now as for Niemenin I don't see the point you are making. A fully fit Murray would have won that match I don't think that is up for debate so if you are joining those that he was indulging in mind games then sorry but why bother as Andy is A. Far better player and doesn't need to resort to that and B. Isn't one to make big things of injuries as can be seen in the past. His wrist injury at the US Open a few years ago was common knowledge but on losing did he use that as an excuse. NO. Same this time around where he evidently has a back issue yet has tried covering it up in press conferences. I rest my case.

A depressingly predicatable response from Grinning Greg, Wet Wade (I mean come on, can't she be a bit more enthusiastic when she speaks)

And of course eagerly jumped on and taken out of context, by the usual suspects on these boards (I eargerly logged on, anticipating a 'hawkeye' reaction and I wasn't dissapointed )

Andy of course was stupid for even setting foot on court (I'd wager he'll go out tomorrow as he plays someone who comes from a country and sounds like he knows his way around a Tennis court) but to criticise him for having the bottle to fight on, never mind the suggestions that he was play acting are simply appalling

CC my friend, someone earlier on this thread wondered where our mutual friend 'Yummymummy' (with a wonderful sexist comment ) was - it's quite simple she simply won't put up with this abuse of a great player, who, lest we forget in amongst all the negative brainwashing, actually enhances today's Tennis.