Mallet on England, Meyer, the upcoming series, players and conservatism.

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 8:33 am

I have to apologise beforehand for the length of the article, but it is important to read through all of it to gain the full picture.

I have shared some of my concerns about how Heyneke Meyer is planning his tenure as springbok coach and has copped fair amount of criticism from my countrymen on various forums about my views about how I think he is going to manage Springbok rugby.

Most of this criticism has come from Bulls supporters who believe Heyneke Meyer is the best thing since sliced bread.

Before the Springbok coach was announced I made it clear that my first choice coach would be Nick Mallet, now just to make it clear, he isn’t a hero of mine in any sense, however I loved the way we played when he was coach of the springboks.

He kept the structure, but had a back line who as individuals may not have been seen as world class performers, but as a collective they played some exciting rugby and the proved that SA can be creative and unpredictable on attack.

During his tenure he had a superior win record against every opponent except for Australia. It was also a time during which SA averaged almost 4 tries per test match.

As a coach I respect him a lot and listen when he speaks, he talks from experience and a knowledge base much more vast than my own.

So here are some things he had to say over the past week.

Mallet on Heyneke Meyer’s philosophy.

"I pity Heyneke because it's going to be very hard trying to prepare a team for a Test one week after those derbies, while England will have two weeks' preparation," Mallett told reporters on Wednesday.

"He has to win all three Tests in order to buy himself some time to develop his philosophy.”

“That is the only thing I'm slightly worried about with the Heyneke regime - his mantra is execution above innovation and it will be a very conservative team and gameplan,”

“So he is not looking for innovative players, he's looking for people who execute well.”

“If we are going to do a move that will take the centre into the midfield, we are going to do it so well, at such pace, that it doesn't matter if the opposition know about it - we will get across the advantage line and we will dominate that impact zone.”

"He'll be happy to win 25-18 with a handful of penalties, a drop goal and a breakaway try."

"I would not be surprised if England sneak a game. They're a very strong team, they're bringing an air of confidence out of the Six Nations, as the tournament developed, so did they,"

"They're scoring tries and they're really well coached. Stuart Lancaster needed to bring pride back to the country and the jersey and he did that by picking the youngsters. “

"He's given England the ability to counter-attack and they can hurt the Springboks,"

Mallet on the Heyneke Meyer and Rassie Erasmus partnership.

“In Heyneke and Rassie we are very, very lucky in having two very good coaches. Rassie, from a technical point of view, is outstanding, and Heyneke, from a personality, man management point of view, is exceptional. We’ve got the world’s greatest exponent of learning other people’s calls in Rassie.

“There isn’t a single coach in the world who goes into as much detail in working out how the opposition call, and what they mean. He’s absolutely believable at that.”

Erasmus was the same as a player, said Mallett, and, strangely enough, there was no better example of this than in Mallett’s last match as Springbok coach, in Durban.

“Rassie was the first player who came up to me and said, ‘Listen, Nick, I’ve been studying the way the Australians get out of their half. They throw to (John) Eales at four, they bring Jeremy Paul down on the peel-off, they then pass behind the back of (Owen) Finnegan to (Toutai) Kefu, who takes it up. They set up the ruck in the middle of the field and they’ve got a left-footed kicker in (Chris) Latham or right-footed in (Stephen) Larkham to kick out.’

We had our defensive system, and Rassie said, ‘You always want me to tackle Kefu, but I want to go for the interception’. I covered it by telling Joost to make sure he would tackle Kefu if the intercept didn’t work.

“It worked unbelievably. We’re in their 22, their line-out, throw goes to Eales, around came Paul, pass to Kefu, interception by Rassie Erasmus, try, under the bloody poles! The Aussies all dived on his back. The question (to the TMO) ‘Is there any reason I can’t award the try’, only came in afterwards.

The question was, ‘Did you see the ball grounded?’ Of course they couldn’t see it grounded, there were Australians all over it. Latham was the last man up, he actually pats Rassie on the head and says, ‘Well done’.

“We didn’t get the try, lost the match 19-18 and it was ‘cheers Nick’.”

Nick Mallet on some leading players.

“Andries Bekker has a long way to go before he can be talked about in the same breath as South Africa’s greatest lineout specialist, Victor Matfield.”

“Bekker is nowhere near as good as Matfield in the lineouts. Bekker needs to listen to Matfield - then he will become better,”

“Because he is big, he thinks he can win every ball whereas Matfield thinks about the lineouts. Matfield will not throw one ball to himself if there is a danger of losing it or if there is a blocker there. He will call a ball everywhere else except for himself if it means his team winning the game.”

“Bekker, however, will call on himself and if he loses one, he will call another one because he is upset he lost one. Then if it happens again he will blame the hooker for not throwing into the lineout high enough.”

“Teams can only put two blocks and you as the lineout reader need to see where they are and that’s where Matfield was absolutely unbelievable.”

Mallett also had criticism for captaincy candidates Pierre Spies, Jean de Villiers and Bismarck du Plessis, pointing out factors in their games that worried him ahead of the England tests.

“At outside centre Jean is a really poor defender,” Mallett said about the Stormers captain, “So he is going to have to sharpen up because (Manu) Tuilagi is going to run rings around him. Tuilagi is very physical, big and strong.

“That’s the problem at outside centre, but then again we never pass the ball in SA rugby so it might not be necessary to select a centre,” Mallett joked. “If he can’t chase up and unders and tackle, then what is he doing there…?”

The former Bok mentor also called Spies, the Bulls captain, “a flat-track bully” who had never impressed him.

“Loose forwards are a big issue. I don't rate Spies as a defender, he is poor on defence and his close ball skills at the back of the scrum are also poor,” Mallett said. “He is only good against weak teams. A flat-track bully who will run in three tries. We are missing out on someone who is good from the base of the scrum.

“I know Heyneke likes Willem Alberts, but it is also worrying that he is in the top five in Super Rugby in terms of missed tackles. He’s missed 24 tackles in six games, and that’s bloody high. Marcel Coetzee is the guy I would pick, he is in the top five in terms of tackle stats and in ball carries.”

Mallett also called for an increase in discipline for the two Bok front row brothers Bismarck and Jannie du Plessis.

“We have to be very careful with the Du Plessis brothers - they are a five penalty package for opposition teams. Bismarck does turn over ball, but he gives two to three penalties away at the breakdown. Jannie gets pinned at scrum time and there’s always something, a stiff arm or going over the top. In terms of discipline they need to be spoken to but the Sharks front row, when they are on song, are formidable.”

Listening to all of this, I can see that my concern about the plan and the execution being more important than talent and unpredictability is not unfounded.

Mallet as I do, believe that Meyer doesn’t really care whether every man and his dog knows our moves and game plan, Meyer believes that execution of his plan will trump creativity, even if the opposition knows what’s coming.

I just hope this is not his intention for the next four years. Hopefully Rassie Erasmus will have a greater impact and be able to work with Meyer to create better attacking platforms and less predictability.

I have only one question for Meyer. What happens when execution fails, where is plan B?

by ultra Sat 02 Jun 2012, 8:51 am

Interesting to read the thoughts of a man with a fantastic rugby brain. Good article.
When someone with Mallett's knowledge points out these 'weaknesses' (for want of a better word), I can feel my subdued optimistic tendencies starting to re-surface Smile

by doctor_grey Sat 02 Jun 2012, 9:03 am

I thought the combination of Meyer and Erasmus was kind of an odd couple thing. Meyer, as stated, like control and repetition. Laying out the plan and almost daring other teams to beat it. Erasmus is, more innovative, more creative. Almost a left-brain, right-brain combination. Which, to me, means the idea of the two working together will probably be a spactuclar success or big failure. Most likely nothing in between.

Reading the comments, I wonder if there were matching positive commetns about some players. I think negative comments like these could be made about players in almost any National team, and that includes RWC winners. But I do find it interesting that he summed up comments about players that other folks had mentioned time to time. I would have planned to attack directly at Speis, as well as centres out to the wings. Interesting that Mallett says mostly the same thing.

BUt, I think both England and the Boks are in transition. This adds a level of uncertainty to what we will see over the next weeks. And that will make great Rugby, or at least very interesting Rugby.

by fa0019 Sat 02 Jun 2012, 9:12 am

The thing about Mallett is he has a great knowledge of the game, not just in SA but also in the NH.

He coached in the 6N for 4 years with Italy and did very well with limited resources.

There is a lot of truth however in what he's saying.

Jannie Du Plessis gets turned over a lot... had ENG had someone like Sheridan of a few years back I think he would have been in big trouble. Bismaarck does get pinged a lot also so you have to ask yourself is he worth 6-9 points a game more than someone like Strauss???

For Jannie I do put part of the blame on complacency. When he played badly, he was never dropped by PDV. There has been little competition for him... he has never had to go that extra mile to secure the Jersey and with scrum operators like Bakkies, Bismaarck, Steenkamp etc in previous sides, you could have weak links and still be a strong force.

Spies... his barnstorming runs for the bulls only generally works against poor club sides, in test rugby he is always quiet. He is much like Tom Croft of ENG... people rave about their pace but they rarely show it in test matches and can become very forgetful in the matches.

The difference with Croft is that he is a world class lineout operator.... probably the world's finest now that Matfield is gone. He will be missed by ENG but if they play Haskell for instance they get a good ball carrier in replacement and from what I've heard/seen in bits, Parling is a adequate lineout replacement for Croft.

Alberts certainly has had a poor season, looks like he is improving but the backrow looks pretty lightweight at the moment in terms of class and form..... something I struggle to believe at times given that SA has been the hotbed of backrow talent in the past, presently and probably well into the future also.

by Bullsbok Sat 02 Jun 2012, 10:45 am

"It truely amazes me how Mallet can predict to such fine detail exactly how Meyer operates tactically and selectionwise as the Bok coach. He's yet to name his first squad to play it's first test! But he's been sassed already by Mallet? Surely he must be right on all accounts! We're doomed I tell you!"

by Bullsbok Sat 02 Jun 2012, 10:48 am

"HM is absolutely correct about the execution of moves and tactics to a T.

When that is achieved, the rest follows as the other team falls into disarray.

When the Bulls won their titles, they also scored more tries in the Super seasons, or close to the most - 10-man donkey play? Really??

I remember a game when the Bulls were down about 27-3 after a quarter and won something like 47-30. Matfield's post-match was telling - "We just concentrated on our own play."

Simple, they just got on with their own game and ensuring they were as accurate as possible, what followed was a bonus-point win.

Compare the Stormers who ARE playing 10-man Jake White rugby, and who can't buy a four-try bonus point!!

The Boks under HM will score plenty of tries, because his execution demands and structured play will allow the opportunities to open up.

For the opposite to HM, see the Lions under D Muir..."

by Bullsbok Sat 02 Jun 2012, 10:52 am

I read this article two days ago and those are just some of the comments i also read. i thought they had a fair point.While Nallet is one of the very best coaches SA had (17 streak record) he's also a massive hypocrite. He coached ITALY for four years and how did they play?? Where they a beautifully expansive team? Didnt they kick and mall constantly? didnt he regularly play players out of position and make such ridiculous position calls like bergamasco at 9 ? And he has the nerve to judge Meyer even before he coaches his first Springbok game.

by Geordie Sat 02 Jun 2012, 12:52 pm

fa0019 wrote:The thing about Mallett is he has a great knowledge of the game, not just in SA but also in the NH.

He coached in the 6N for 4 years with Italy and did very well with limited resources.

There is a lot of truth however in what he's saying.

Jannie Du Plessis gets turned over a lot... had ENG had someone like Sheridan of a few years back I think he would have been in big trouble. Bismaarck does get pinged a lot also so you have to ask yourself is he worth 6-9 points a game more than someone like Strauss???

For Jannie I do put part of the blame on complacency. When he played badly, he was never dropped by PDV. There has been little competition for him... he has never had to go that extra mile to secure the Jersey and with scrum operators like Bakkies, Bismaarck, Steenkamp etc in previous sides, you could have weak links and still be a strong force.

Spies... his barnstorming runs for the bulls only generally works against poor club sides, in test rugby he is always quiet. He is much like Tom Croft of ENG... people rave about their pace but they rarely show it in test matches and can become very forgetful in the matches.

The difference with Croft is that he is a world class lineout operator.... probably the world's finest now that Matfield is gone. He will be missed by ENG but if they play Haskell for instance they get a good ball carrier in replacement and from what I've heard/seen in bits, Parling is a adequate lineout replacement for Croft.

Alberts certainly has had a poor season, looks like he is improving but the backrow looks pretty lightweight at the moment in terms of class and form..... something I struggle to believe at times given that SA has been the hotbed of backrow talent in the past, presently and probably well into the future also.

I have been a big critic of him for a long time...but i had to acknowledge that this 6n was his best consistent run of games for England...and he was one of Englands player of the tournament...

by Chjw131 Sat 02 Jun 2012, 1:22 pm

I agree Geordie, Croft had an excellent 6N and was supreme in the lineout. FA does have a point though, in some of the RWC matches he was quiet. It's the way you utilise Croft that makes the difference, unlike Spies who just fades from some games.

For the Lions he was consistently one of the best players on the pitch along with Simon Shaw!

by Bullsbok Sat 02 Jun 2012, 1:24 pm

Chjw131 wrote:I agree Geordie, Croft had an excellent 6N and was supreme in the lineout. FA does have a point though, in some of the RWC matches he was quiet. It's the way you utilise Croft that makes the difference, unlike Spies who just fades from some games.

For the Lions he was consistently one of the best players on the pitch along with Simon Shaw!

CRoft was in the Lions Shocked

? he did nothing of note , Croft is only being bigged up because he scored that one try , the English 8th man was the real star in that backrow .Now theres a good loosie

by Zander Sat 02 Jun 2012, 2:45 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
Chjw131 wrote:I agree Geordie, Croft had an excellent 6N and was supreme in the lineout. FA does have a point though, in some of the RWC matches he was quiet. It's the way you utilise Croft that makes the difference, unlike Spies who just fades from some games.

For the Lions he was consistently one of the best players on the pitch along with Simon Shaw!

CRoft was in the Lions ? he did nothing of note , Croft is only being bigged up because he scored that one try , the English 8th man was the real star in that backrow .Now theres a good loosie

Ben Morgan is his name and I agree he went very well in the Six Nations considering it was his first few caps for England.

by Bullsbok Sat 02 Jun 2012, 2:48 pm

Zander wrote:
Bullsbok wrote:
Chjw131 wrote:I agree Geordie, Croft had an excellent 6N and was supreme in the lineout. FA does have a point though, in some of the RWC matches he was quiet. It's the way you utilise Croft that makes the difference, unlike Spies who just fades from some games.

For the Lions he was consistently one of the best players on the pitch along with Simon Shaw!

CRoft was in the Lions ? he did nothing of note , Croft is only being bigged up because he scored that one try , the English 8th man was the real star in that backrow .Now theres a good loosie

Ben Morgan is his name and I agree he went very well in the Six Nations considering it was his first few caps for England.

Yep him ,he just seemed to be able to get over the advantage line at will everytime he got the ball. of all the english players , he's the one the Boks have to keep an eye on cause he'lll make big dents in any defensive line

by Poorfour Sat 02 Jun 2012, 3:25 pm

The England back row in the 6N worked because it had a good balance. Morgan and Croft were able to do what they did because of how much of the hard work Robshaw did.

It's interesting to read that Mallet thinks SA have some problems in the back row and lineout. England's pack is very young in international terms, but did well against some bigger and much more experienced units in the 6N. If they can get some parity up front, it could be an interesting series.

It sounds like Meyer and Lancaster are not dissimilar as coaches - both favour execution over tactics. That could mean that the games come down to questions of selection and the cohesiveness of the team, and Lancaster may have an edge here, having had the 6N and an extra couple of weeks on tour to build his side.

by Geordie Sat 02 Jun 2012, 3:32 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
Chjw131 wrote:I agree Geordie, Croft had an excellent 6N and was supreme in the lineout. FA does have a point though, in some of the RWC matches he was quiet. It's the way you utilise Croft that makes the difference, unlike Spies who just fades from some games.

For the Lions he was consistently one of the best players on the pitch along with Simon Shaw!

CRoft was in the Lions ? he did nothing of note , Croft is only being bigged up because he scored that one try , the English 8th man was the real star in that backrow .Now theres a good loosie

You must have missed the tries he scored then eh?

by Chjw131 Sat 02 Jun 2012, 3:53 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
Chjw131 wrote:I agree Geordie, Croft had an excellent 6N and was supreme in the lineout. FA does have a point though, in some of the RWC matches he was quiet. It's the way you utilise Croft that makes the difference, unlike Spies who just fades from some games.

For the Lions he was consistently one of the best players on the pitch along with Simon Shaw!

CRoft was in the Lions ? he did nothing of note , Croft is only being bigged up because he scored that one try , the English 8th man was the real star in that backrow .Now theres a good loosie

Bulls you just appreciate Morgan because he's a big lad. I do think he's a great talent but Croft has something different it's called finesse! Which for a forward is pretty unique. He was also the second fastest player at Tigers (behind Varndell I think?!). I'd be interested to see what you thought of Ryan Kankowski?

by **LondonTiger** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 3:54 pm

Mallett's comments come across as if he is rather bitter and twisted.

by Bullsbok Sat 02 Jun 2012, 3:55 pm

Chjw131 wrote:
Bullsbok wrote:
Chjw131 wrote:I agree Geordie, Croft had an excellent 6N and was supreme in the lineout. FA does have a point though, in some of the RWC matches he was quiet. It's the way you utilise Croft that makes the difference, unlike Spies who just fades from some games.

For the Lions he was consistently one of the best players on the pitch along with Simon Shaw!

CRoft was in the Lions ? he did nothing of note , Croft is only being bigged up because he scored that one try , the English 8th man was the real star in that backrow .Now theres a good loosie

Bulls you just appreciate Morgan because he's a big lad. I do think he's a great talent but Croft has something different it's called finesse! Which for a forward is pretty unique. He was also the second fastest player at Tigers (behind Varndell I think?!). I'd be interested to see what you thought of Ryan Kankowski?

I dont appreciate Morgan coz he's a big lad , i appreciate him because he uses his size to great effect . Spies is both big and fast but i dont rave about him .

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 4:13 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Mallett's comments come across as if he is rather bitter and twisted.

I don't think he is bitter. He has been on various programs over the past few weeks and he is very open and honest in his appraisals. What he says has a lot of merit, certainly the proof of what Meyer will do after the English series will be in the progress made by Meyer.

by sugarNspikes Sat 02 Jun 2012, 4:19 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Bullsbok wrote:
Chjw131 wrote:I agree Geordie, Croft had an excellent 6N and was supreme in the lineout. FA does have a point though, in some of the RWC matches he was quiet. It's the way you utilise Croft that makes the difference, unlike Spies who just fades from some games.

For the Lions he was consistently one of the best players on the pitch along with Simon Shaw!

CRoft was in the Lions ? he did nothing of note , Croft is only being bigged up because he scored that one try , the English 8th man was the real star in that backrow .Now theres a good loosie

You must have missed the tries he scored then eh?

He was third top try scorer for the Lions in SA (after Monye and Bowe) and scored 2 tries in the first Test. Bullsbok can't have been watching that bit Wink

by FerN Sat 02 Jun 2012, 4:56 pm

Biltong, your complaint is the same that people had against PDV, Jake White and probably most other Springbok coaches. We play that way, have for so long, don't think we can chance it now and get results.

By the way - your team (I know you gave up on them) is winning, convincingly for a chance.

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 4:59 pm

Fern, nothing needs to "change", just a little more freedom to be creative.

It is a mindset, not rocket science.

by Bullsbok Sat 02 Jun 2012, 5:00 pm

winning is a mindset.

by FerN Sat 02 Jun 2012, 5:02 pm

What is this word freedom? We are not allowed this, we don't know how to use this. We don't need this.

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 5:04 pm

Ok, llet me ask my learned SA friends.

When the bulls were kicking away possession against the Bru,bies and they kapt attacking and scoring one try after another, did you not feel like pulling your hair out?

When the Bulls were atacking, and attacking against the Chiefs, but getting nowhere did you not want to scream go wide, do something else?

When the stormers keep on getting ball and every time JdV gets the ball he breaks the first tackle then runs into the traffic and doesn't get the ball to a support runner.

Doesn't this all frustrate you?

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 5:06 pm

Yeah Bullsbok, you're right JP sucks at centre,

He runs in, sidesteps, offloads to Lambie, they set up a ruck, then Marcell takes the ball up Pietersen runs off the shoulder of Mclead and runs in for the try.

Not good.

by FerN Sat 02 Jun 2012, 5:07 pm

You get frustrated by that? I thought you are a Springbok supporter - you should get that out of your thinking. Will make life painless for you. The Springbok motto is if it isn't working now, maybe it will next time.

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 5:10 pm

Mallet on England, Meyer, the upcoming series, players and conservatism. Smiley-laughing021

so you do too, you just don't admit it in front of Meyer supporters.

by FerN Sat 02 Jun 2012, 5:15 pm

I was being a bit sarcastic, but I don't see us changing our ways anytime soon.

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 5:16 pm

Noticed.

by **LondonTiger** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 5:45 pm

From what I saw of Meyer at Tigers, in the limited time available, I did not become a fan. After all this is the man who caused us to pay out a small fortune on Derick Hougaard - even when he was playing for Sarries.

However it does seem as if there are a number of Bok fans who are desperate for him and the team to fail as this will then vindicate their view of the game.

Wishing for Nick Mallett is like England fans wishing for Clive Woodward. Both are coaches from a different era, who were successful but have done little in the last 9 years to deserve the deification they get.

by Bullsbok Sat 02 Jun 2012, 5:52 pm

biltongbek wrote:Yeah Bullsbok, you're right JP sucks at centre,

He runs in, sidesteps, offloads to Lambie, they set up a ruck, then Marcell takes the ball up Pietersen runs off the shoulder of Mclead and runs in for the try.

Not good.

Im sure you'll agree scoring a try from the 5m line does not make you a very good center.... getting your defensive duties mixed up causing ur team to lsoe as the sharks have just found out right now , IS being a bad center

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 5:55 pm

LondonTiger wrote:However it does seem as if there are a number of Bok fans who are desperate for him and the team to fail as this will then vindicate their view of the game.

No mate, I don't believe any South African wants any bok team to fail, ever

by Bullsbok Sat 02 Jun 2012, 5:58 pm

biltongbek wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:However it does seem as if there are a number of Bok fans who are desperate for him and the team to fail as this will then vindicate their view of the game.

No mate, I don't believe any South African wants any bok team to fail, ever

EVER! . And biltong i'd take anything Mallet says with a bit of salt. Its all good to judge someone else but seeing as Nick Mallet did the same if not worse with Italy its comes across as bitter and hypocritical

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 6:03 pm

Bullsbok, you seriously aren't looking at Italy and then say Mallet is not a good Coach?

by Bullsbok Sat 02 Jun 2012, 6:06 pm

biltongbek wrote:Bullsbok, you seriously aren't looking at Italy and then say Mallet is not a good Coach?

Never said he's not a good coach i just said him judging Meyers style and philosophy is bitter and hypocritical. I cant argue against Mallets credentials ,we all know wat he's achieved . However his Bok days were more than a decade ago . More recently Italy should be his measuring stick now and can you honestly say NIck Mallet of all people should be slating another coach for playing kicking rugby ??

Italy only started using their backline this year under their new french coach . Under mallet they were notorious for relying on the scrum and maul for 80min of the game . You know that , i know that everyone knows it . So on what grounds should Mallet judge anyone on playing a forward game?

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 6:13 pm

Come on mate, he isn't slating him, he provides his opinion, it is a rather fresh breath of air in this politically correct society we live in.

by Bullsbok Sat 02 Jun 2012, 6:14 pm

answer me honestly now boet , did Mallet practice what he's preaching with his team?? or is it pot calling the kettle black

by FerN Sat 02 Jun 2012, 6:17 pm

Did he have exciting runners in his team?

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 6:18 pm

To be honest I can't tell you what he practiced.

It is too long ago, but what I can tell you is that Smilie (Werner Swanepoel) is my brother in law's cousin, and he told us about the way Mallet treted his players and encouraged them to give input.

What was good about Mallet was the way he got a bunch of players who weren't indivdual stars to play lime champions.

If Meyer can do that, I'll be happy.

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 6:20 pm

FerN wrote:Did he have exciting runners in his team?

you don't remember Percy at cntre, and fullback, Slapchips, James Small etc.

They were good interntional players but the way they played as a team made them perform above the some of their parts.

by FerN Sat 02 Jun 2012, 6:21 pm

I mean his Italian team

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 6:24 pm

No their backs are Mallet on England, Meyer, the upcoming series, players and conservatism. Poop11

by Bullsbok Sat 02 Jun 2012, 6:25 pm

biltongbek wrote:No their backs are ----- What was good about Mallet was the way he got a bunch of players who weren't indivdual stars to play lime champions.

not to nit pick but?

by Taylorman Sat 02 Jun 2012, 6:42 pm

Just seems we have an improved pdv model which will be effective against most sides. Any losses will come when SA require tries at the death and wonder why they cant get them, or when opposition attacks find holes in their defences.

If they takes the predictable (steyn based) route they cant complain when they grunt away up and down the field for 60 minutes and then let soft tries in, or when they get a couple of poor ref calls. Chancing your arm...making the most of the opportunites available negate those sorts of things.

It also puts added pressure on steyn to both kick goals and to stay away from those wanting to target him physically.

They will probably be more accurate but there will also be an element of boredom where theres a perception that to dominate up front only to lose to one or two late tries will somehow be deemed unlucky or unfair when it actually wont be.

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 7:07 pm

Taylorman it seems nobody except you is getting what I am saying.

I tried to explain that I have no problem with structured bok rugby, I have noe problem with executing a plan, what I have a problem with is when that plan doesn't work and you have to do the unexpected, it seems my fellow South Africans are resigned to the fact that if the execution fails, they accept defeat rather than take the not so obvious route.

They simply beleive we cannot do it.

I beleive we have the talent and the skill to do it, but simply refuse to do it.

by Zander Sat 02 Jun 2012, 7:30 pm

Biltong, you certainly have the players to do it! Lambie, Hougaard, Mvovo, etc. So is it something in the Bok mentality or just following tradition?

by Taylorman Sat 02 Jun 2012, 7:41 pm

Yep!
Which of those players is an automatic starter.

I know biltong. I can see you struggling against your own.

I do know that this aproach will be welcomed by the ABs. A predictable gameplan will be cannon fodder for a new AB side wanting to lift its standards higher than previously. Particularly when combined with a host of players yet to prove themselves in the bok arena.

Like you I can picture a match with 10 mins to go. Boks needing 13 points and all the oppostion has to do is hold them out. Some teams might not but the best will...easily.

by Taylorman Sat 02 Jun 2012, 7:47 pm

The other thing is you will get play variations in the chip and chase area. Its very common now with many tries in sxv being scored from it so the januarie type plays suit the meyer mould.
But its something our 9-12's are also adept at. Cruden and carter especially showing a high skill level in placing the ball.
So that at least is your plan B Biltong...if thats any consolation.

by **Biltong** Sat 02 Jun 2012, 7:49 pm

a bit of both mate.

by Bullsbok Sat 02 Jun 2012, 7:51 pm

Taylorman wrote:Yep!
Which of those players is an automatic starter.

I know biltong. I can see you struggling against your own.

I do know that this aproach will be welcomed by the ABs. A predictable gameplan will be cannon fodder for a new AB side wanting to lift its standards higher than previously. Particularly when combined with a host of players yet to prove themselves in the bok arena.

Like you I can picture a match with 10 mins to go. Boks needing 13 points and all the oppostion has to do is hold them out. Some teams might not but the best will...easily.

Yes of course . Rolling Eyes

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