Springbok rugby supporters concerned.

On the back fo the loss to the Irish U20 team last night and a woefull uninspiring Bayby Bok team that lacked any tactical nous or willingnees to play with ball in hand, I went onto various South African websites this morning just to see that tehe general mood is in South Africa before the upcoming English test.

Here are some comments made. I have removed the names of the posters to protect the innocent.

Yes, I think we're going to have to move with the times and change our game plans and patterns. The All Black and Australians really showed us up with their slick handling and intelligent play.......... and the Irish if you like. I have a fear that the 'Boks will play the same stereo-type game on Saturday. Certainly hope the poms don't show us up.

Gelled? It looked like these guys hadn't even met each other yet! A anumber of our top schools would have punished these "future hopefuls". It was a really poor poor performance with no apparent game plan other than to "donder" the irish wiff there strengff. But what can you expect when the coach is an ex prop? Wont be wasting my pink ticket on these boys again......sorry.

Very poor display of tactical play by Boks . Well done to the Irish.

It was the most frustrating game to watch!.......Please let us not play like this against the Poms this weekend!

Dawie Theron is clueless. How can he pick Paul Jordaan, who has been outstanding for the Sharks, on the wing? What a waste! Why the obsession with playing players out of position? In addition, the stupid and telegraphed kicking from both the scrumhalves cost the game. 2 charge downs and 2 tries to the Irish. So predictable. No attempt to play positive rugby. only Plan A which consisted of smashing up in the forwards and then the number 9 hoofs a high ball. Got what they deserved!

Depressing. No vision from the halfbacks, no skill from the midfielders, no imagination from the coaches. A herd of buffaloe - big, strong and bloody dumb!

I agree boet, why are we so scared to play rugby will ball in hand?? As Campese says, you can't score without the ball in your hands. Is this very difficult for the coaches to understand. On the other hand if our rugby players are really clueless and without skill, then I agree, kick the ball and see if the opposition makes a mistake. So, are our rugby players clueless and without skill????

Brace yourselves for more of the same this weekend. The ossewas selected by Meyer will be found licking the English' heels. Unfortunately this is South African mentality when it comes to sport. We are scared to loose trying new and exciting method. We'd rather stick to the tried and tested dinosaur rugby!!!

So HM says the structures are in place and Springboks will play according to their strengths, which is what we saw? There are some boring rugby years ahead for all Springbok rugby.

The Baby boks were beaten up badly at the breakdowns they lacked vision with ball in hand and our starting no.9 was pathetic really a disappointing performance from a baby bok team with so much talent.

Every scrummie now wants to copy FdP who started this mindless "kicking to nowhere" crap. Gareth Edwards from Wales, one of the best scrumhalves ever, kicked, but he used his kicks wisely and they always put the opposition under pressure.

Inept, pathetic, dumb performance!! Once again it shows how far behind SA rugby is. When will SA rugby realise that the kicking game is a dead art form. What is a joke is this Bulls idea to get forwards to line up in a row feeding the ball backwards, you simply telegraphing to the opposition that you going to kick & give possesion to them. Paul Jordaan is a talented player wasted chasing after kicked ball. Someone should teach the hooker how to throw in to, too many lost lineouts. One wonders if the reason for the game plan is to get players used what will be future game plans when at a senior level, which then gives us idea how the Boks will play against England on Satyrday, kick & chase!!

Not very intelligent rugga by the baby-boks.. Becoming as predictable as the bokke. The problem with "playing to our strengths" is that once the opposition nail you at your own strengths, then you are lost cause there is no plan-B

Wow, what a revelation the All Bkacks are! What skill and quick thinking- the rugby of old with backlines passes that arrive at the wings and with overlaps created along the way. None of the Bok obsession with the centres being crashball bullies only but skill, skill!
Watched the SACS vs Rondebosch derby this weekend and saw similar skills. What happens to these talented kids when they leave school.? Rugby has evolved but when will the Meyers and Coetzee's see this???

The scoreline actually flattered our Baby Boks. We looked clueless at the breakdowns and our lineouts were a total mess. How we only ended 4 points behind is a mystery. More so we could have miraculously won this game had the scrummie not been charged down. How we got that close the mind boggles. We looked like a U9′s playing out there. Ireland were totally superior to us in all aspects of the game.

Now we see why some of our Baby Boks only bloom once they are with their franchises, IT has to be the COACHING. Time for us to get the very best coach for our Baby Boks. I wonder what happens to Mitchell and Spencer after the Lions get relegated? If they out of a job please, please saru contract those two for our Baby Boks. Just imagine what Mitchell could do with our young talent? For for now they are just not coached at all.

Aside from the result, I find the whole regional split in SA at the moment facinating. It seems a reaal high velt vs coastal cities thing. We only get it here when an Auckland coach is appointed to the AB's.

Do you think the knives will be out for Meyer if the boks stumble.

Well the cape is not happy with only three stormers in thesquad, but then there are some injured players at the stormers who would have been selected like Schalk and Andries, perhaps Duane Vermeulen as well.

The provincial rivalry will never go away, that is a given.

The above just shows you that I am not the only South African concerned about our rugby coaching methodology.

Dont laugh at me here Biltong, but in my opinion what you guys need are some foreign coaches in the national setup (you don't at moment do you?). It seems you only hire ex-springboks or ex SA players. These players will bring the same playing mentality with them, and you will never evolve, as that is all they know. You also need to do it with the top franchises (bulls/stormers/sharks) and build from the ground up. Then in a few years those SA players will teach newer generations to play the new way.

This might seem a bit näive from an outsider but that's how it appears to me. It seems to have worked in Ireland and Wales at least.

It was a very poor kicking display from the baby boks. I thought that slightly incompetent scrummies were at fault until I saw Mr Venter sat looking smug amongst the coaching stuff. He loves the aimless kicking but always relied on Gustard the Sarries defence coach to make it look good with a phenomenal kick chase. The Boks really were the victims of their own poor decision making.

Provincial rivalries and issues with the coaching methodology..... hmm .....sounds familiar..... .....

I feel your pain Biltong!

The baby boks haven't done well for a number of years now... physically they didn't look at the races against IRE.

It was the same last year when they lost to ENG in the JRWC and probably will occur when ENG face SA later in the group stages.

Its far cry however from the days when SA won 2 U21 world titles back in the early 2000s... players who combined made up much of their golden age of 06-11.

ENG have got to 3 finals in the last 4 years however and look a decent bet to get there again this time around... Hasn't really done them any good though, these players who are dominating all around them bar NZ get left behind mostly.

Good example.. Hugo Ellis of ENG, Captain of 08 side which were runners up to NZ??? Didn't he move to Wales and the Dragons or someone... and then got dropped from the senior squad.... i.e. now playing club rugby, perhaps at best 1 or 2 levels above some of the guys on here.

Not every player will make the grade Fa0019, for every Ellis there's a Farrell.

England are just bearing the fruit of a more structured set up and this latest squad contains numerous U20 successes (Marler, Launchbury, Farrell, Gibson, Youngs, Tuilagi, Lowe etc)

We are slowing bringing these guys through and look a much better outfit for it.

Looking at SA and Meyer, they seem to want get back to the forward dominated play with bruising forwards and bruising backs. Problem is that teams figured out ways around this tactic a fair few years back.

I'm expecting a laboured test series win over England, glossing over potential issues and then a few big losses in the 4N.

Biltong - While watching the game I couldn't understand the SA tactics. The Irish defensive line was far better organised and just didn't look as though route 1 bosh was going to break through. This meant the pack was being moved laterally or even behind the gainline and the forwards just weren't used to coming in from behind the backfoot quick enough. This resulted in the breakdown problems.
Despite having that shown time and again in the first half the Boks kept doing the same in the second, spinning the ball to the backs before the defence was stretched. Then to compound the issue they didn't spin the ball when there were overlaps!

Mike Ruddock has to take a lot of credit for instilling the discipline, tactics and motivation into Ireland, who on paper should have been beaten, but then games are played on a pitch.

Biltong, they take a shine to any Irish players? That scrum half had a case of the Tómas O'Leary's. (Pointless box kicking and some poor passing)

Yes but you would have thought that the trend would at least continue. NZ are constantly the best and their junior players continue that.

SA in the early 2000s were near the best junior in the world... five years later many of those players lifted the RWC.

The players from ENG don't seem to be making the same transitional success in quite the numbers or quality at others do.

"The players from ENG don't seem to be making the same transitional success in quite the numbers or quality at others do."

That is incorrect, our youth set up went through transitional changes around 4/5 years ago and is starting to show signs of bearing fruit in the full Int set up now.

These things don't happen over night, a good U20 side doesn't instantly mean these players going straight into the full squad. It's took Cruden 3/4 years to develop into the player he is now after shining at the U20 WC for example.

We are starting to see the benefits of this structure change NOW with the first batch of finalists hitting the 22/23yo mark.

Aukster, the baby boks were murdered at the breakdown by an Irish team who flooded numbers to the breakdown, Griesel the scrumhalf took so long to get the ball out t reminded me of england in the six nations.

The hlaf back pairing did nothing to alleviate the pressure on themselves and the captain of the baby boks didn't communicate with the referee. A quiet spoken word in his ear would have helped to have the referee scrutinise the Irish round the ruck more.

But the most frustrating thing was the fact that Griesel kept on doing the same thing over and over, and all he could do was shake his head.

It isn't rocket science, when the opposition is bringing more numbers to the breakdown, you either don't get into contact to be solated or you commit more players to secure your ball. The Irish competed at every ruck, and slowed the ball the whole time, how did they not figure that out?

And then the number of knocks by the boks were pathetic to say the least, are they not coached how to take a ball into contact?

fa0019 wrote:Yes but you would have thought that the trend would at least continue. NZ are constantly the best and their junior players continue that.

SA in the early 2000s were near the best junior in the world... five years later many of those players lifted the RWC.

The players from ENG don't seem to be making the same transitional success in quite the numbers or quality at others do.

You are never going to get every player who plays U20 rugby to come through. It’s true that 4-5 years ago England weren’t that great at it, but things have changed since then. Whether they are the ‘quality’ of other nations’ young players is a question of opinion, but a lot of them are still very young.

But to Hugo Ellis I would counter with the current squad:

Joe Gray (2008)
Dan Cole (2008)
Alex Corbisiero (2008)
Joe Marler (2010)
Matt Mullan (2007)
Graham Kitchener (2009)
Joe Launchbury (2011)
Courtney Lawes (2009)
Carl Fearns (2009)
Jamie Gibson (2010)
Ben Youngs (2009)
Owen Farrell (2011)
Jon Josepth (2010)
George Lowe (2009)
Manu Tuilagi (2010)
Jordan Turner-Hall (2008)
Christian Wade (2011)
Alex Goode (2008)

That is without considering guys who many think will break into the squad in the coming years like George Ford (2011), Jonny May (2010), Elliott Daly (2011-12), Freddie Burns (2010).

As you know biltong some of us have been saying this for a couple of years. One of the main outcomes of such a rigid and narrow thinking has been the failure to develop new players. Players like lambie and co seem to get in as an afterthought and now you have the problem of being forced to replace so many at once, with few having been groomed for the positions to date. Instead of hitting the ground running most of the newbies face a sink or swim dilemma under a coach who suddenly wants high levels of execution. Somethings gotta give with this conundrum.

If meyer doesnt embrace change he'll continue to take SA rugby down that frustrating path. With the steyn model he'll continue to leave backplay undeveloped and may be forced into areas due to too many unnacceptable losses.

When I think what the oz or all black backline could do if combined with the bulls type forward strategy the mind boggles. Huge options at both front and back and the only reason SA dont have this is through choice! Unbelievable as they certainly have the back talent/ potential.

Every scrummie now wants to copy FdP who started this mindless "kicking to nowhere" crap. Gareth Edwards from Wales, one of the best scrumhalves ever, kicked, but he used his kicks wisely and they always put the opposition under pressure.

I said the FDP was wrongly touted 'world class' because all he did was box kick (which weren't even that good). Where are you now bullsbok! A South African echoes my theory.

Taylorman, I have been arguing this point on a number of SA websites and they continue to believe (mainly bulls supporters) that his formula has made the Bulls the most successful side in recent years and that this formula will continue to work

They are ignoring a few facts.

It is no longer 2009
These players that could execute this plan are mainly retired now.
The whole world knows this plan
Laws have changed.

And worse of all is the fact that they refuse to see there needs to be a plan B

They simply dismiss what happened in the Bulls vs Brumbies, the Bulls vs Chiefs and Bulls vs Stormers match

Morgannwg wrote:

Every scrummie now wants to copy FdP who started this mindless "kicking to nowhere" crap. Gareth Edwards from Wales, one of the best scrumhalves ever, kicked, but he used his kicks wisely and they always put the opposition under pressure.

I said the FDP was wrongly touted 'world class' because all he did was box kick (which weren't even that good). Where are you now bullsbok! A South African echoes my theory.

He did a fair few other things as well morg, he destroyed england a number of times.

biltongbek wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

Every scrummie now wants to copy FdP who started this mindless "kicking to nowhere" crap. Gareth Edwards from Wales, one of the best scrumhalves ever, kicked, but he used his kicks wisely and they always put the opposition under pressure.

I said the FDP was wrongly touted 'world class' because all he did was box kick (which weren't even that good). Where are you now bullsbok! A South African echoes my theory.

He did a fair few other things as well morg, he destroyed england a number of times.

The nerve , the sheer nerve . FDP was not world class ? Really now, there stupid posts on 606 but this tops them all . The architect of the Springbok 07 world cup?? That guy? the same chap who masterminded the 3-0 defeat of the All blacks? Did the great Gareth Edwards ever achieve that? Rugby fans are slow creatures with very shallow memories when it serves them . . "mindless kicking to nowhere" i will say it once again in case you're slow . If multiple national rugby coaches , players and legends rate FDP as one of the best ever , im much more likely to take their word for it than someone sitting behind a computer screen.rant over

Does destroying a below average side make one world class?

Morgannwg wrote:Does destroying a below average side make one world class?

no leading your team to multiple accolades does.

Bullsbok wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

Every scrummie now wants to copy FdP who started this mindless "kicking to nowhere" crap. Gareth Edwards from Wales, one of the best scrumhalves ever, kicked, but he used his kicks wisely and they always put the opposition under pressure.

I said the FDP was wrongly touted 'world class' because all he did was box kick (which weren't even that good). Where are you now bullsbok! A South African echoes my theory.

He did a fair few other things as well morg, he destroyed england a number of times.

The nerve , the sheer nerve . FDP was not world class ? Really now, there stupid posts on 606 but this tops them all . The architect of the Springbok 07 world cup?? That guy? the same chap who masterminded the 3-0 defeat of the All blacks? Did the great Gareth Edwards ever achieve that? Rugby fans are slow creatures with very shallow memories when it serves them . . "mindless kicking to nowhere" i will say it once again in case you're slow . If multiple national rugby coaches , players and legends rate FDP as one of the best ever , im much more likely to take their word for it than someone sitting behind a computer screen.rant over

There was me thinking that SA beat NZ three times, not FDP or Edwards? confused.com. Anyway, I got what I wanted, which is you snarling at the screen . Besides, you said something like this last time. Try and vary your material.

Anyway back on topic, Du Preez was so overated.

Morgannwg wrote:Does destroying a below average side make one world class?

Beating the all Blacks 3-0 I would think yes.

Du Preez not world class?? C'mon.......seriously?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Du Preez not world class?? C'mon.......seriously?

Well even Gareth Edwards must have had his detractors.

Hardly.... i'm snarling because i read a stressing article about the possibility of Zane Kirchner starting over Pat Lambie... now i like Kirchner as a bull but he's got nothing on Lambie. If Meyer doesnt win very convincingly on saturday ,then even the most loyal bulls supporters cant defend him

Bullsbok


Meyer loves Zane.

I actually thing he'll bring some much missing structure and discipline to SAs game to the point where he'll get most of the results hes after.

The plan b wont normally be required for most teams if meyer gets 95% or more out of his team simply because despite a rubbish and flat gameplan the players themselves are better anyway. Against us is perhaps where they may need it...and he may well have one for that.

I think theyll be too much for england for the following reasons.

Meyer will at this moment be instilling the pride of SA rugby back into this team, something thats been missing previously.

Homa advantage and fans desperate for results will be worth real points. Many i reckon.

And I dont think England quite yet know where they are as a team. They had a good 6N last year then a dismal wcup. Then under lancaster performed admirably at home in the 6N.

Now their on tour again with many new players theyre back to that touring phase, away from home and fan base, and relying on their 6N results again to convince them theyre good enough.

I dont think theyre ready for a 3 match series in SA just yet. I think they think they are but ive doubts theyre convinced and a first up wopping by a reinvigorated Bok side might make their tour seem a very lonely and long trip.

Taylorman wrote:I actually thing he'll bring some much missing structure and discipline to SAs game to the point where he'll get most of the results hes after.

The plan b wont normally be required for most teams if meyer gets 95% or more out of his team simply because despite a rubbish and flat gameplan the players themselves are better anyway. Against us is perhaps where they may need it...and he may well have one for that.

True, he might only need a plan B unless he faces NZ or OZ or a team on form, 10 points down and 10 minutes to go.

But if you are only going to use plan B then, you are chancing your arm, practice makes perfect and that plan B must be practiced as many times as possible in a match situation, you can't expect players to execute plan B once in a blue moon only.

Bullsbok wrote:Did the great Gareth Edwards ever achieve that? Rugby fans are slow creatures with very shallow memories when it serves them .

Your memory is all to hell it seems! You forgot about the Welsh dominated Lions tours in 71 and 74 to New Zealand and South Africa where the hosts were beaten did we? Gareth Edwards was playing by the way

The British nations didnt tour as individuals like they do now, a singular tour was very, very rare.

AlynDavies wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:Did the great Gareth Edwards ever achieve that? Rugby fans are slow creatures with very shallow memories when it serves them .

Your memory is all to hell it seems! You forgot about the Welsh dominated Lions tours in 71 and 74 to New Zealand and South Africa where the hosts were beaten did we? Gareth Edwards was playing by the way

The British nations didnt tour as individuals like they do now, a singular tour was very, very rare.

I meant as a home nation not Lions and i did not mean it as an insult to Gareth Edwards who even i admire greatly

Bullsbok, pull out mate, fire in the hole.

Fourie du Preez isn't fit to tie Gareth Edwards shoe laces.

He is overrated.

You ain't gonna get anywhere with this.

Yes hammet said something similar when playing against the tahs last week. They needed the forth try bonus point and with a minute to go they scored from the set piece.

Hammet said it wad great to see a good plan coming into effect when you need it most. Said we have moves like that on in every game and sometimes they dont come off but its great when it does.

So I agree filly with the plan B thing. The bulls thinking is simply not to get into that position and as weve seen they have, with no redress or solution for it. Its a naievity that just cant be entertained at the top level. And ironic thing is meyer will only have "they didnt stick to the gameplan" to say when the opposite is actually true...at a point the problem becomes the gameplan.

In the same situation the ABs will be running through which planned move will resolve the situation quickest/ best.

bringing the thread slightly more back to topic,not had the chance of watching the JWC, who is looking good and what names should we be looking out for on the senior front in the coming seasons?

one other point I would like to make regarding posts over the apparent failure of England to translate there success at U20 level to senior level, surely it seems to me (although this is an uniformed opinion) with the amount of foreigners plying their trade in the Aviva they are blocking the development of young english players?

Taylor,
I agree. I am not remotely sure where this England squad is. They did indeed play a decent Six Nations. And, frankly, did play Wales pretty straight up even (excepting one great Scott Williams play and Strettle coming up two inches short). But they are undoubtedly in a transition, rebuilding mode and I don't care for a few of the player selections. They have the potential to beat the Springboks. But also to potential to lay three big eggs. I can't decide which.

And every time I hear the Springbok supporters bemoan their team's chances, I get even more concerned.

Bullsbok, just for you.

In 2006, du Preez was voted SA Rugby Player of the year by the South African Rugby Football Union. He was nominated for IRB player of the year as well.

Du Preez has won the IRB u/21 World Cup in 2002, the Currie Cup final three times ('03, '04 & '09 having been withdrawn from Currie Cup action in '06 by the then Springbok coach Jake White when the Bulls shared the cup), won the Super 14 title in 2007, 2009 and 2010, the Tri-Nations in 2004 and 2009 and the Rugby World Cup in 2007.

In 2009, du Preez was voted SA Rugby Player of the year by the South African Rugby Football Union for a second time

Sadly every one comes to the end of greatness.

Taylorman wrote:So I agree filly with the plan B thing. The bulls thinking is simply not to get into that position and as weve seen they have, with no redress or solution for it. Its a naievity that just cant be entertained at the top level. And ironic thing is meyer will only have "they didnt stick to the gameplan" to say when the opposite is actually true...at a point the problem becomes the gameplan.

In the same situation the ABs will be running through which planned move will resolve the situation quickest/ best.

That is exactly why I have been harping on this point for so long.

Heyneke Meyer said he wants to be the number 1 team.

Number 1

Not number 3, 5 or whatever.

And that is why (as Doc says) I am bemoaning the game plan of the Boks.

I have had it with politics, poor admistration, quota's etc. hampering our true potential, as much as I respect the All Blacks, I have had it with playing second fiddle to them for nigh on 16 years.

the time has come for us to dominate world rugby, we have the young players with the X factor, we have the depth and the structure, now is not the time to play it safe, it is time for a proper coach to do the unthinkable in SA rugby, evolution, it is gung ho balls to the wall and lead for a change.

Otherwise we might as well accept we will alwys be also rans.

Sorry rant over.

biltongbek wrote:..........the time has come for us to dominate world rugby, we have the young players with the X factor, we have the depth and the structure, now is not the time to play it safe, it is time for a proper coach to do the unthinkable in SA rugby, evolution, it is gung ho balls to the wall and lead for a change.

biltongbek wrote:.........the time has come for us to dominate world rugby.............

Erm. Ahh. Well...........

Us too.

doctor_grey wrote:

biltongbek wrote:..........the time has come for us to dominate world rugby, we have the young players with the X factor, we have the depth and the structure, now is not the time to play it safe, it is time for a proper coach to do the unthinkable in SA rugby, evolution, it is gung ho balls to the wall and lead for a change.

biltongbek wrote:.........the time has come for us to dominate world rugby.............

Erm. Ahh. Well...........

Us too.

Sorry Doc, I picked it a few months ago already.

Crap. I want to dominate. I just do.
But, noooooo. You said it first.
You have to be that way, eh?

I will get my revenge, in this life or the next one.
I will send you what you truly need.
I bequeath to you: Rob Andrew.
Who is laughing now?

What is a pink ticket?

Sorry Doc, we can't afford him.

You miss the point. It is a one way gift. The gift which just keeps giving.
You will thank me one day.

maybe.

My mother taught me never to accept gifts from strangers.

Biltonbek, the Baby Boks set piece play was poor (that's normally a strength of Bok rugby). Why?

GavinDragon wrote:
one other point I would like to make regarding posts over the apparent failure of England to translate there success at U20 level to senior level, surely it seems to me (although this is an uniformed opinion) with the amount of foreigners plying their trade in the Aviva they are blocking the development of young english players?

Oh no, not again. Nobody is blocking young players in the AP, young English players have never had more chances. Despite the withdrawl of Ford (started AP final and semi at 10), Daly (a regular for Wasps at 13), Kvesic (matchday regular and plenty of starts in the backrow) and Watson (so good LI were giving him chances at 18) the England u20 squad at the JWC contains various players with proper AP experience:

Nutley, Sisi, Vunipola, Spencer, Heathcote, Mills, Addison, Elliot, Yarde.

The tight-forwards are generally a year ahead, so they've featured less, but it will be a different story when they return next year.

So England are getting quite close to being able to play an u20 XV made up solely of players who feature regularly in the AP. If you included Championship sides we'd already be there (Hill and Bell were key players for the Pirates and Leeds). Back in 2008 hardly any of the players would have had regular 1st XV game-time.

2008 was a strange group, some very good players but some very ordinary ones. Since 2009 the translation to regular AP regby has been very good (helped in part by the wage-cap). Over the next 3 years the senior side will come to be completely dominated by players who have been through the age-group system.

Bullsbok wrote:I meant as a home nation not Lions and i did not mean it as an insult to Gareth Edwards who even i admire greatly

Well that's a bit unfair to be honest, how can you say Wales didnt beat any countries on tour when Wales rarely if ever went on any tours?

In the amateur era tours by British countries were not really done individually, it wasnt until the mid to late 80's that it started to happen. To be clear Gareth Edwards never missed a capped Welsh game between 1966 and 1978, he played in ALL of them in that time and amassed 53 caps. He only toured once with Wales in 1969, which was at the very start of the Welsh glory years. The next full Welsh tour after 1969 was in 1986 to the pacific islands!

i stand corrected (i did state it was an uninformed opinion)

biltongbek wrote:My mother taught me never to accept gifts from strangers.

Teach that to the rest of your country men please... the amount of free tries Wales always gives you, we could do with you lot being less willing to accept our freebies!

Kind of what ive been saying for years also.
A clean slate is required. A full and open SWOT type analysis. Strengths, weaknesses, opportunites etc. The sxv holds the key. for SA and to dominate you must question EVERYTHING.

You cant rely completely on a 'what used to work ' mindset. How can that thinking possibly result in domination of anything?

If everyone played like borg from the baseline will they always win wimbledon? No. Times have changed. Strategies are ever evolving.

GH and NZ rugby have largely adopted the very open style involving all players wirh an emphasis on attack and resolute defence..
Its the template for our game at all levels. Look at the under 20s. They always mirror the abs.

But dont think for a minute that we wouldnt hesitate to change it all if that style starts losing on the various fronts.

Thats because we believe we do actually lead the game in that way. To be number one you must be adaptable, smarter and more innovative than everyone else.

SA has that potential but simply chooses not to realise it. Meyer may lift the win rate. But he wont dominate world rugby. Hes going for safety, percentages etc. And it would actually be bad for world rugby if such an approach were to be the benchmark.