Scotland team vs Fiji

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 08 Jun 2012, 9:50 am

First topic message reminder :

Time for a new thread and to leave the victory in Oz behind. The lads travel on the weekend to Fiji and a week after that they will face Fiji in their own backyard. FIJI v SCOTLAND at Churchill Park, Lautoka, on Saturday 16 June 2012, with kick-off 3pm (local). Not sure this match is being televised anywhere unfortunately.

Altho Fiji seem to have regressed somewhat over the last few years from their 2007 RWC heights, this remains a massive potential banana skin for the Scots. Our performance in Australia in attrocious conditions that were a great leveller stands out for the supreme defensive effort, but in the dry, humid conditions of the islands, we'll need to show a wee bit more in attack.

Taking from the SH Tour thread, a few brave posters have ventured their opinions on team selection for this second fixture of the summer tour:

Captain_Sensible wrote:The performance against Oz has given us quite a few selectorial headaches (in a good way, for a change!)

Welsh or Grant?

I think Welsh deserves to build on his performance vs Italy, but Grant was just superb last night. It was great for Scotland to have a scrum that could be used as a weapon, for a change. I’d keep Grant as the starter, and Welsh on the bench. I’m sure Welsh will get a chance to play, as the games vs Samoa and Fiji will be played at a much faster pace and in higher temperatures of course. Happy for Murray to stay at TH as well, he should munch the Fijian scrum.

Harley or Strokosch?

Big Stroker made me eat my words yesterday – I didn’t think he should have been selected, but he was immense. Having said, I think the conditions suited his style of play, and he probably isn’t the right answer at 6 for the future. I really do think that Harley should get some game time, but that can maybe wait for the Samoa game. I’d be happy with either playing, though there is an argument for Harley to come on from the bench.

Visser or Lamont or Brown or Ansbro?

I think Ansbro should stay at wing – every time he gets the ball he does something decent with it, and he defends very well too. Matt Scott and NDL should be allowed to show off their form as a partnership at club level in conditions more conducive to running rugby, so I think the centre pairing is solid for the Fiji game. I think Visser should take the other wing slot, with Brown covering the back three from the bench. Perhaps harsh to drop Lamont entirely and keep Brown on the bench, but we’ve been waiting three years for Visser to tear teams apart – let’s see him do it asap!

So, team for Fiji would be

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Kellock
6. Strokosch/Harley
7. Rennie
8. Barclay
9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. NDL
14. Ansbro
15. Hogg

Subs – Lawson, Welsh, Ryder, Harley/Vernon, Cusiter, Weir, Brown

and

allyt2k wrote:1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Kellock
6. Strokosch
7. Rennie
8. Barclay
9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. NDL
14. Ansbro
15. Hogg

Subs – Lawson, Welsh, Ryder, Vernon, Cusiter, Weir, Brown

Don't want to change the team to much, Sean sounds like he's taken a knock to the ribs so straight swap with Visser. Brown and Grant capped with Scott getting good game time at 12, priority of the bench would probably be weir and welsh but depends how the Fiji game goes and injuries.

Don't move Hogg to 13 he's really good where he is with him and Brown challenging each other for the 15 berth with Mr Glass as cover. Bring Dunbar through as 13 and Bennett needs to start making an impact France or he's gonna be forgotten about.

Agree that Laidlaw will probably move back to 9 in the next couple of seasons when Leonard gets more game time, so I would keep Jackson at 10 but give him a kick up the backside.

I see Max has arrived with the squad, I think it would be wrong to put him in the squad or on the bench in place of Brown, unless Ansbro is injuried after his hug with stroker then i cant see any reason for his inclusion, like Vernon he hasn't been on the best of form.

and

funnyExiledScot wrote:My team for Fiji:

1.Grant 2.Ford 3.Murray 4.Kellock 5.Gray 6.Strokosch 7.Rennie 8.Vernon 9.Blair 10.Laidlaw 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.NDL 14.Ansbro 15.Hogg

16.S Lawson 17.Welsh 18.Ryder 19.Harley 20.Cusiter 21.Weir 22.Brown

Just two changes to Tuesday's side for me. Visser, because Lamont was injured plus hasn't been close to Visser's form all season, and Vernon, purely because I think this game will suit his abilities perfectly (and because I still see Barclay as a 7 rather than an 8, despite his awesome performance).

I'd like Welsh, Ryder and Harley all to get some time on the pitch in this game, assuming the match situation permits it.

and

George Carlin wrote:Agree Captain - Grant and Murray have to stay and I am starting to agree with Ferrie in the Herald today who said that Robinson has to realise Al Kellock's brain and his ability to keep talking to the ref and get him onside (something which Ford has not got a handle on yet) is worth the trade-off for not being as fat a knacker as Swingin' Jim Hamilton. I would also blurt out the following:

1. Should Max Evans replace Joe Ansbro?

I am a big fan of Ansbro - he never seems to waste a ball and runs very good lines. I hope that everyone has been on RugbyDump.com and seen Max's 60m run against Toulouse in the Top 14 semi-final, only for him to have a nutty when he got over the line and try to pass it back instead of wrestling it to the ground: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhhkwBYCJN8&feature=player_embedded

Impressive and yet not impressive. Really between Brown and Max as the utility back of choice on the bench. Which brings me to...

2. Should Brown stay on the bench?

Something that hasn't been talked about much was the way in which Brown kept his error count down and effectively wrapped up Ioane whenever he got the ball. It would be hugely unfair to drop him but I think that Robinson will.

3. Should Barclay stay at 8?

Oh lord god, I don't know. It's still like watching a granny with a mobile phone - completely wrong, but strangely fascinating. Maybe having JB on the pitch is actually the best option if we can't have Denton or Beattie. But will Edinburgh's favourite Fijian mash him?

4. Are we wrong about Strokosch?

Good lord, I always had him down as a perennial underachiever. He still is, on past performances. But I think that I would rather have him as chopper than Rob at present. Robinson will almost certainly keep him.

5. Who drops out of the wing slot?

McVisser and either Max or Joe for me. Cannot decide. Better post this now before I change my mind again.

So who are you going for and what will Robinson do?

Braveheart

by funnyExiledScot Tue 12 Jun 2012, 11:36 pm

Pretty pleased with the team. I'd have given Vernon a crack but I guess he'll come off the bench.

Backs are perfect. Well done Mr Robinson. Looks like you're learning finally.

Same ref as the Aussie match. Hopefully we'll have learned something from his interpretations and be able to use that to our advantage this time.

by **George Carlin** Wed 13 Jun 2012, 7:08 am

Good team - nice to see His Timness there at last. Can only assume Scott Johnson is pushing for a backline that might intuitively be able to score a try or two.

My only gripe (and I've got to have at least one) is the kick off time. Why in the name of feck are we kicking off at 2pm local when it's at its hottest? Surely the SRU could have pushed for a 6pm kick off under the floodlights? 6pm in Suva is 7am in London and 8am in Paris, so they cannot possibly blame the faceless TV executive fat cats.

by **RDW** Wed 13 Jun 2012, 9:03 am

Didn't realise it's the same ref - pretty disappointed at that tbh.

The guy just didn't ref the scrums against Aus - on their ball the scrum was collapsing but because the ball was at the back of the scrum the ref let them play it. Problem is, they were collapsing it so we couldn't get the shove on! If it was a 6N ref we would have had far more scrum penalties.

The scrum will hopefully be a weapon for us on Saturday - but with that ref I'm not so sure how effective it will be now.

by funnyExiledScot Wed 13 Jun 2012, 1:44 pm

We seemed to be convincing him by the end of the 80 minutes in the scrum so hopefully we'll have some knowhow there to exploit, and in that regard it's good that we have the same pack on the pitch.

Agree GC about the start time. That, combined with the stomach bug going around the squad, makes this a tough proposition. I'll still be extremely disappointed if we lose this though. We should beat Fiji and Samoa, regardless of the pitch or conditions.

by Captain_Sensible Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:17 am

Scotland subs confirmed for Saturday's Test v Fiji: Lawson, Cross, Ryder, Vernon, Cusiter, Weir and Lamont

by **RDW** Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:19 am

Pretty gutting for Tom Brown that, especially since I'd be really surprised if Lamont ribs really are fully recovered.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:22 am

Tam Broon can feel a wee bit miffed for being dropped IMO, he did everything that was asked of him against Oz and in atrocious conditions for his first cap. I'm with you RDW, I can't think Lamont's busted up ribs are 100%

by Captain_Sensible Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:26 am

And Lamont isn't a fullback. I'd rather have a player on the bench that covers two positions, rather than one.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:40 am

See AR is getting better but still has room for his favourites despite it being logical to have someone to cover 15 effectively too.

by IanBru Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:41 am

It's worth bearing in mind that with Brown on the bench and Ansbro not on the pitch, we would have no centre cover at all.

There are two options for Robinson:
- Bench Brown, and have him cover centre in emergencies; or
- Bench Lamont, and have him cover full-back in emergencies.

The later is infinitely preferable!

by **RDW** Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:50 am

We have Max Evans to play centre....

by IanBru Thu 14 Jun 2012, 11:10 am

Ahem... you've got a point there. I'm clearly suffering from lack of oxygen!

by **RDW** Thu 14 Jun 2012, 11:10 am

And Hogg!

by IanBru Thu 14 Jun 2012, 11:11 am

Oh Christ. Kill me now. picard

by **RDW** Thu 14 Jun 2012, 11:13 am

Done.

by TJ1 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 12:02 pm

Its a good team for sure. No glaring clangers in selection. I hope they can go out and play with some freedom and score some tries - especially i hope tehy canget the Ednburgh tctics of constantly shifting the point of attack at speed working and that Visser has the confidence / freedom to play i a free role as he does for Edinburgh - popping up all ver the place in attack

I just wish there was a way of getting some of the other player plenty of gametime - weir, vernon, harley etc. Its a short tour but even so.

Hard tho - is this about player development or is it about getting 3 wins?

by alexgmacdonald Thu 14 Jun 2012, 12:25 pm

TJ wrote:Its a good team for sure. No glaring clangers in selection. I hope they can go out and play with some freedom and score some tries - especially i hope tehy canget the Ednburgh tctics of constantly shifting the point of attack at speed working and that Visser has the confidence / freedom to play i a free role as he does for Edinburgh - popping up all ver the place in attack

I just wish there was a way of getting some of the other player plenty of gametime - weir, vernon, harley etc. Its a short tour but even so.

Hard tho - is this about player development or is it about getting 3 wins?

I think it is a bit of both, I think its easier to integrate new players into a winning team because if we're losing, most of the time a lot of pressure is put on the new players to be the catalyst that makes us win. Look at De Luca when he made his debut, he was hailed as the 'golden boy' to spark our backline and he never seemed able to deal with the pressure and I don't think he has recovered from it.

I would have loved to have seen a few midweek games to test combinations and give some of the players a taster of what it is like to play for Scotland.

by Cryptoyourisan Thu 14 Jun 2012, 12:36 pm

TJ wrote:Hard tho - is this about player development or is it about getting 3 wins?

Because we are playing Fiji and Samoa, it has to be about getting three wins. A loss to either and Robinson has to go, regardless of the Australia result. Were we playing a two- or three-test series against the Springboks, I think then you we could talk about results being secondary to development and performance.

However, I think Scotland will have to score tries to beat Fiji and Samoa. Whilst some people think throwing the ball about plays into the hands of Fiji, I think it is far too dangerous to sit on a 15-9 lead going into the last 10 minutes. We saw what happened against Argentina and I doubt many people were surprised to see us throw that game away. Here's hoping Laidlaw will take points when they are on offer but get the team to have a go when it's on, rather than go for a drop.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 14 Jun 2012, 12:40 pm

A little reminder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnwcxdo6iwE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Braveheart

by TJ1 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 12:40 pm

To me the Fiji game would have been the one to experiment / to try out combos with the known folk on the bench. However I can understand why Robinson has chosen not to do so - especially as we didn't see the backs against Aus.

Its just that coming home with 3 wins but no game time for Weir, harley, vernon etc seems a wasted opportunity .

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 12:51 pm

TJ wrote:To me the Fiji game would have been the one to experiment / to try out combos with the known folk on the bench. However I can understand why Robinson has chosen not to do so - especially as we didn't see the backs against Aus.

Its just that coming home with 3 wins but no game time for Weir, harley, vernon etc seems a wasted opportunity .

The purpose of this tour for me was to cement Scott's position as the "go to" guy for the 12 shirt instead of reverting to either can't pass or won't pass (Morrison or Lamont).

Game time for Harley can come in the Autumn when we have better ball carriers (Denton / Hamilton) and Weir can have a start against Tonga in the Autumn with Laidlaw at 9.

This tour was all about establishing a consistant backline that can unlock defences and score tries. They have already shown themselves to be capable defenders, its now up to them to run the ball and cause havoc in Fiji.

by TJ1 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 12:51 pm

Fair enough - as I have said I can see this both ways

by funnyExiledScot Thu 14 Jun 2012, 1:23 pm

Agreed on Tom Brown, he should be on the bench. I'd have given Lamont another week to get back up to full fitness for the Samoa game (where I'd consider him to start in place of Evans so that we have some physicality in the backs).

Still, Robinson has picked a good squad for this tour and this is a good team. Now it's up to the players to deliver. I don't care if it's hotter than the sun out there, we must win this match.

by **RDW** Thu 14 Jun 2012, 1:28 pm

Guys,

Due to popular demand and requests I have set up a live match thread here

https://www.606v2.com/t30980-fiji-vs-scotland-second-summer-test-teams-and-live-match-thread

Thanks to George Carlin for doing the legwork!

by funnyExiledScot Thu 14 Jun 2012, 1:33 pm

Live match thread!! That's optimistic.

I'm recording it at home and will crawl out of my pit for breakfast I suspect around 7ish. It's not fair to demand that Mrs fES cook me breakfast before that.....

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 1:34 pm

I haven't quite figured out how/where to watch this one yet, hence the live match thread should a link be provided nudge nudge Wink

may be my only option.....

by **RDW** Thu 14 Jun 2012, 1:36 pm

you have mail radge!

by Anglobraveheart Thu 14 Jun 2012, 1:41 pm

It may be that the tours' purpose has altered slightly given that the midweek game was not staged, but it's worth bearing in mind the positives to take from a developmental point of view:

1. Grant proves himself in the international arena.
2. Ford shows up very well in the loose and improves leadership (I agree that Kellocks influence here is instrumental, BUT at least the mentoring IS taking place).
3. Murray regains his mojo.
4. Strokosch and Barclay rediscover international form.
5. Cusiter plays a cameo to close out the game and steady the ship in the crucial closing stages V Aus.
6. Laidlaw proves he has bottle AND remembers to collect his kicking tea before celebrating.
7. Visser and Evans make the squad.
8. Scott proves himself and gains experience.
9. Brown gets his first cap AND proves his worth. Valuable experience for him.
10. All the tour party get squad time and a chance to develop as a group.

So there are both developmental advantages and win advantages.
These players have had a long season, so a gruelling tour isn't really the best thing IMO. They get a good bonding tour to finish the season off before they prepare for next season and for many a big year for club and country.
Before we left it felt like we would miss players such as Jacobsen, Morrison, Lawson (R), Hamilton, Brown (K), Beattie, Jackson, Dunbar, Low, Hall, Dannielli and Walker. BUT the new blood has proved itself so far and we must move on.
However, whilst it should be thanks and farewell to most of those we thought we'd miss, I do look forward to the returns of Brown, Beattie and Jackson (if he improves) and the introduction of Dunbar. Low is rightly there as a replacement.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 14 Jun 2012, 1:47 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Live match thread!! That's optimistic.

I'm recording it at home and will crawl out of my pit for breakfast I suspect around 7ish. It's not fair to demand that Mrs fES cook me breakfast before that.....

Lazy get!

Scotland team vs Fiji - Page 3 Tired-sleeping-smiley-17401

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 14 Jun 2012, 1:49 pm

Anglobraveheart wrote:It may be that the tours' purpose has altered slightly given that the midweek game was not staged, but it's worth bearing in mind the positives to take from a developmental point of view:

1. Grant proves himself in the international arena.
2. Ford shows up very well in the loose and improves leadership (I agree that Kellocks influence here is instrumental, BUT at least the mentoring IS taking place).
3. Murray regains his mojo.
4. Strokosch and Barclay rediscover international form.
5. Cusiter plays a cameo to close out the game and steady the ship in the crucial closing stages V Aus.
6. Laidlaw proves he has bottle AND remembers to collect his kicking tea before celebrating.
7. Visser and Evans make the squad.
8. Scott proves himself and gains experience.
9. Brown gets his first cap AND proves his worth. Valuable experience for him.
10. All the tour party get squad time and a chance to develop as a group.

So there are both developmental advantages and win advantages.
These players have had a long season, so a gruelling tour isn't really the best thing IMO. They get a good bonding tour to finish the season off before they prepare for next season and for many a big year for club and country.
Before we left it felt like we would miss players such as Jacobsen, Morrison, Lawson (R), Hamilton, Brown (K), Beattie, Jackson, Dunbar, Low, Hall, Dannielli and Walker. BUT the new blood has proved itself so far and we must move on.
However, whilst it should be thanks and farewell to most of those we thought we'd miss, I do look forward to the returns of Brown, Beattie and Jackson (if he improves) and the introduction of Dunbar. Low is rightly there as a replacement.

AB, did you mean Evans? Headscratch

by Anglobraveheart Thu 14 Jun 2012, 2:06 pm

Well yes. On reflection, maybe not the right place to include his name, but i do see it as a positive that he's there especially with so many of our recent wingers being injured or retired.
It was a lot of info I was trying to get across, so point taken. Sorry. Rolling Eyes

As he hasn't really shone this season (maybe out of sight and out of mind), I still see it as a positive that he is there and involved.
I was just accentuating the positives that are there and shouldn't be overlooked, despite the fact that this has become a 'must win all games' tour, which could possibly stifle any developmental aspirations! Blimey, it sounds like I'm at work!

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 2:07 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:you have mail radge!

How do you know? Are you stalking me? Run

(thanks

)

Yes this test series has allowed some of the dead wood to be jettisoned. I can only hope the jettisoned dead wood doesn't make its way back into the squad because we had glimpses of the future in the team that held the Austrialians off for the win.

Let them gel, let them settle and let them play!

And for the love of god don't bring your favourites back in the Autumn Andy! picard

by alexgmacdonald Thu 14 Jun 2012, 2:16 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:you have mail radge!

How do you know? Are you stalking me? (thanks )

Yes this test series has allowed some of the dead wood to be jettisoned. I can only hope the jettisoned dead wood doesn't make its way back into the squad because we had glimpses of the future in the team that held the Austrialians off for the win.

Let them gel, let them settle and let them play!

And for the love of god don't bring your favourites back in the Autumn Andy!

What happens if they take their omission from this tour as a kick up the arse and outplay the guys in the current squad?

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 2:22 pm

And the lesser spotted swine flies past the window.......

Morrison has had 3-4 years to prove to be more than a crash ball merchant. From memory he has only really looked thretening in one game for Scotland 2010 at Croker......

as for Danielli, he might beg him out of retirement like he did with Desperate Dan. Although it's not inconceivable for Nikki Walker to recover some form and come back into contention IMO.

by alexgmacdonald Thu 14 Jun 2012, 2:25 pm

What about Jackson? He might regain some form after his injuries. I'm sure toonie will give him a chance.

by **George Carlin** Thu 14 Jun 2012, 2:30 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Guys,

Due to popular demand and requests I have set up a live match thread here

https://www.606v2.com/t30980-fiji-vs-scotland-second-summer-test-teams-and-live-match-thread

Thanks to George Carlin for doing the legwork!

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 2:38 pm

alexgmacdonald wrote:What about Jackson? He might regain some form after his injuries. I'm sure toonie will give him a chance.

YEah I think Jacko is the most complete 10 we have but his Kicking from the tee is a bit dodgy, If he regains form I have no issues with him coming back into the fold.

by Anglobraveheart Thu 14 Jun 2012, 2:42 pm

TBH, I'm not convinced by and never have been by Jackson. Prior to Weir emerging and Laidlaw reinventing, I was desperate for Jackson to metamorphose from the chrysalyctic promise of his youth and depose Parks and Godman. Whilst the latter two have gone (thankfully) I think Weir and Laidlaw are well ahead at the moment. I don't think Jackson is cutting edge enough to warrant international level.
Laidlaw despite his defensive frailties (physical size, not courage) seems to be more balanced and able to cope with the pressure.
Weir is just a solid nugget that is a good all round player with that little bit of extra charisma that Jackson lacks.
There are also the new 10's coming through at Edinburgh, that look like they'll be nipping at the incumbents heels very shortly.
It may be that Jackson becomes an accomplished club player and doesn't really go any further. He's never really scorched the heather for me.

by TJ1 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 3:49 pm

Laidlaw should be able to defend - and I am sure will improve his defence. I would think it a big wake up call for him the couple of times he got steamrollered.

Other smaller guys have been able to defend well - the key is they have to do he conventional low tackle to bring the guy down which does allow offloads or quick recycle - they cannot tackle high and smother.

Shane Williams, Chris Patterson being two good examples.

I am sure laidlaw will work on this

Jackson IMO was in the same unfortunate position as Alan Rough in football - to paraphrase "its not Jacksons fault he was the best standoff we had" A good honest player - just not quite up to the mark.

by Anglobraveheart Thu 14 Jun 2012, 4:25 pm

I'm not wishing to knock Jackson, I was very eagerly optimistic four or five years ago when he first emerged and he is talented. I just don't think he's as talented as we need, and in laidlaw and Weir, I think they have what it takes to cope with international level rugby.
With regards to tackling, I agree in part, but it's a different game tackling at wing or full back than it is at 10, especially in the positions where laidlaw has been 'steam-rollered' as you have said. In the positions he was in, I don't think it would have mattered who was there.
The difference that Laidlaw has is that he has heart and will give it a go. The technique frailties can be worked on, but 'the team' also need to work as that, and not leave Laidlaw isolated in those circumstances. It won't always be possible to control those situations, but the Irish game I think it was where laidlaw got flattened, just shouldn't have happened. The back row should have been there.
A similar thing happened in 2010 but in our favour when we played Wales and John Barclay I think it was just ran through Steven Jones who was feebly 'supported' by one of his own back row.
'Managing the small margins' I think AR would call it..... Wink

On a further positive note, I think Alex Leonard will be a guiding light for the future.
We just need a couple of new 9's to appear for our ageing current crop and we'll be sorted for 2015. Very Happy

by TJ1 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 4:42 pm

Anglobraveheart wrote:
With regards to tackling, I agree in part, but it's a different game tackling at wing or full back than it is at 10, especially in the positions where laidlaw has been 'steam-rollered' as you have said. In the positions he was in, I don't think it would have mattered who was there.

good point - tend to be more head on rather than from the side / behind ???? tends to be a back rower on the pickup???? so a big guy at speed while the tackler is standing still?????

I do seem to remember one of the Scotland backs ( patterson???) taking down Jonah Lomu at this best from head on as he tried to steamroller him - as Lomu had previously steamrollered several England guys so it must be possible

I am sure tho laidlaw will have been working on this. No one steamrollerd him in the aus game Laidlaw made 6 tackles and missed none according to scrum.com stats. We should not be judging a creative attacking 10 on his tackling ability either - or not making it the sole criteria. How good a tackler was Townsend?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 14 Jun 2012, 4:50 pm

TJ wrote:
Anglobraveheart wrote:
With regards to tackling, I agree in part, but it's a different game tackling at wing or full back than it is at 10, especially in the positions where laidlaw has been 'steam-rollered' as you have said. In the positions he was in, I don't think it would have mattered who was there.

good point - tend to be more head on rather than from the side / behind ???? tends to be a back rower on the pickup???? so a big guy at speed while the tackler is standing still?????

I do seem to remember one of the Scotland backs ( patterson???) taking down Jonah Lomu at this best from head on as he tried to steamroller him - as Lomu had previously steamrollered several England guys so it must be possible

I am sure tho laidlaw will have been working on this. No one steamrollerd him in the aus game Laidlaw made 6 tackles and missed none according to scrum.com stats. We should not be judging a creative attacking 10 on his tackling ability either - or not making it the sole criteria. How good a tackler was Townsend?

Cammie Mather?

by TJ1 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 5:00 pm

Can't remeber - I know it was not a big guy

by Tattie Scones RRN Thu 14 Jun 2012, 5:01 pm

Cammy Murray it was.

by Anglobraveheart Thu 14 Jun 2012, 5:08 pm

GT is a real hero of mine, so much so that i named my eldest lad after him. However, much as I rate the sublime merits of his unpredictability (I have also cringed at his faux pas) I am struggling to recount any of his defensive successes. Saying that, I don't recall him ever being maligned for lacking in defensive qualities, but you are right, we must accentuate the positive skills of our players and work around the areas that they need to strengthen. I can't remember any GT defensive blunders, so must assume he was OK in this dept.
In a similar vein, Dan Carter is renouned as an attacking genius, but I don't recall much dialogue over his defending.

For me, both Laidlaw and Weir are hungry for the ball, good with ball in hand, have good distribution and game management and kick well from hand or from the tea. laidlaw can't solely be judged on his perceived defensive frailties as we have discussed, and Weir can't be solely judged on his perceived lack of speed (England Saxons were certainly shown a clean pair of heels by him in this years 35 - 0 drubbing they got from our 'A' team).
I think if we were to mark the players out of 100, given ten categories worth ten marks each, Laidlaw and Weir would, on current form, be well ahead of Jackson. Not that Jackson's at fault here, he was injured, and IMO came back too soon, and has been off the boil really since.

Jackson has been very similar to Beattie, in that the injury really has knocked him off his stride, and the recovery time for form is a lot longer than that for fitness. Thankfully Beattie seems to have turned the corner and will shine in France next season. I sincerely hope that Jackson will achieve the same. (For Glasgow that is).

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 14 Jun 2012, 5:09 pm

You called your eldest lad 'Toonie'?! Shocked

by Anglobraveheart Thu 14 Jun 2012, 5:14 pm

Aye, and his wee brother is 'Flip' Very Happy

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 14 Jun 2012, 7:39 pm

Nice one

by **RDW** Thu 14 Jun 2012, 8:25 pm

Anglobraveheart wrote:
On a further positive note, I think Alex Leonard will be a guiding light for the future.

You mean Harry? Headscratch

If you do - I wholeheartedly agree!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 14 Jun 2012, 8:28 pm

No, his brother Alex, loosely related to Flip AngloBraveheart

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