Ireland vs New Zealand 2nd Test: Team announcements and matchday thread.

[Biltong]

First topic message reminder :

Sorry boys new thread other one is full.


Venue for the 2nd test: AMI Stadium (Addington) - formerly Rugby League Park Christchurch
Capacity: 26,000 incl. temporary seating
Weather http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2192362 (current forecast for Saturday evening is around 3 degrees C and light rain. But last week's snow has melted at least)


courtesy of Taylorman:

NZ team named- only one change- Thompson for Vito (injured) with Sam Cane on the bench...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7098902/Thomson-in-for-Vito-Cane-on-All-Blacks-bench

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Adam Thomson, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Sam Cane, Ali Williams, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith

Irish team:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)


Tour Previews
http://www.v2journal.com/new-zealands-june-tests-preview.html
http://www.v2journal.com/irelands-summer-tour.html

[Rory_Gallagher]

Sin é, this is from another newspaper report on the team selection: -

Dan Tuohy and Donnacha Ryan resume their second-row partnership, with Kidney emphasising the Ulster man's proficiency at the line-out as the primary reason why Donncha O'Callaghan remains on the replacement's bench.

No mention of Tuohy being too short

Rava, thank you so much for posting this. What do you have to say now Sin? Is Kidney wrong?

[Sin é]

His pass isn't slow it's his service. That's correctable, so he needs to either work on at with the new Munster coaches or hopefully Stringer will give him some tips (some of the fastest service I've ever seen). Murray has the ability for it, he got into the Munster and Ireland setup for his size and quick ball.

Sorry, you're correct. His service is slow and it can be improved. But right now, starting him is not the correct option. I don't want him thrown on the slag heap, he's potentially Irelands best, but he's not there right now.

Absolutely Mick, a badly managed player placed in the wrong position/combination is as bad as utilising an average player in the right position. It has the same effect in producing a weak link against a team that profits on exactly what weak links produce, mistakes. DK also utilising a player at 14 who was cruelly exposed last week both physically and positionally. Trimble offers more experience and physicality at 14 no matter what people say about his form but can be exposed positionally on the left IMO. I mean D'arcy has played some dross in the Ireland shirt in recent times but I am hoping we can see a return to the form he shows more often when wearing blue and show us that when partnered with BOD they can still form a formidable international centre pairing. At least he's being played in his preferred position and therefore afforded every chance to do so unlike McFadden and Trimble.

McFadden, when he has played on the wing for Leinster & Ireland has been played at 14 (Luke & Earls always play 11 when on the wing).
Trimble, when he plays for Ireland, nearly always plays at 11 as Tommy Bowe is usually the starting winger at 14.

Thanks for stengthening my point .
Trimble's best position, the position he plays more RUGBY at and has excelled there for most of this season is 14. Rightly so shifted to 11 for Bowe who is by far our best player at 14 and has all the attributes that someone like McFadden misses on the right wing. However, to shift Trimble to 11 because McFadden has had a few games there for Leinster, doesn't specialise there and most certainly does not excel or thrive there is simply an enigma wrapped in confusion. I had always said Kidney was never the man for the Ireland post (on the old 606) and I am sad that I've been proven right.

P.S. he did not bring us the GS so don't use that old chestnut

Prior to the advent of Bowe, he was up against Shane Horgan who only played on that wing. Trimble probably played more at centre than at 14.

I don't think he excelled at 14 most - he was one of the better players down in NZ from the 11 wing in '10.

So, you don't think McFadden will have learned anything from playing there last week. All this chopping and changing isn't going to help him (apart from the fact that he has never played on the 11 wing before is expecting a bit much of him).

[Rory_Gallagher]

BTW:

https://www.606v2.com/t30931-qa-with-sin-e

Either use this or MrsP's link please.

[Sin é]

How mant world cups have they won with the 2 x 6'8'' locks?

How many lineouts did Ireland steal last weekend?

[marty2086]

Sin é, this is from another newspaper report on the team selection: -

Dan Tuohy and Donnacha Ryan resume their second-row partnership, with Kidney emphasising the Ulster man's proficiency at the line-out as the primary reason why Donncha O'Callaghan remains on the replacement's bench.

No mention of Tuohy being too short

Rava, thank you so much for posting this. What do you have to say now Sin? Is Kidney wrong?

Using Kidneys decision making to make your argument is a bad idea

[Rory_Gallagher]

Not met Sin much on these forums huh?

Kidney is never wrong in his eyes.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

I think the pack is absolutely spot on from Kidney and the team that really should have started last week. O'Mahony didn't do enough for me last weekend. That is not to say he played poorly, but he lacks the physicality at this level. I think that is purely an age and experience thing and with another season under his belt at Munster he will be ready to make the step up. I would have liked to see Fitzpatrick start, but choosing between him and Ross was probably a 50/50 call based on fitness.

The backs selection is a complete shambles. The choice of McFadden is a utter joke and the All Blacks with be rubbing their hands with glee. I don't understand the selection of D'Arcy in the side as well. I can accept that Cave didn't play well coming off the bench, but the team as a whole were taking a hammering at that stage and he has had a tremendous season for Ulster. He is the same age as Earls so is relatively young, playing in a problem position for Ireland, has been in excellent form bar one 15 spell in a beaten team last weekend, and he still can't get on the pitch? Earls gets chance after chance, as does Murray. I have absolutely no issue with that whatsoever, but for a player who has had a better season than both to not even get one real chance shows the problem with Kidney's selection. Zebo is a young guy who desperately needs the exposure to international rugby and should have started this match. Yes his defence and positional play were awful last week, but he showed flashes in attack and he will not learn from being on the bench.

Also, God forbid that Kearney gets injured in this match. With no one to cover him it is a disaster waiting to happen. I think I'll be in my bed when this match is on. For the first time ever I am choosing not to watch an Irish international for fear of the result.

LeinsterFan4life, no, there is absolutely no chance. I have no faith in the IRFU in this regard. Let us walk my friend through the mists of time to the days of yore, just prior to the World Cup in 2007 where Eddie O'Sullivan was awarded a nice big fat contract on the eve of the tournament. In the aftermath of his sacking the IRFU said they would not do that again. So what happened with Kidney prior to this World Cup? In fairness it wasn't a long contract, but two seasons in a four year cycle is a huge problem when things are so evidently not going right. I would have said its a case of the bling leading the blinding, but Kidney is clearly deaf and dumb in regards the problems of his tactics and selections, and the huge holes in his coaching staff that exacerbate these problems. Let's not beat around the bush, the irish rugby team is an utter shambles at the moment.

[Pete330v2]

We will differ in opinion obviously but for me you play your strongest players in any position or at the very least your strongest combinations thereof. Persisting with players who aren't working on the side will only see more dark days ahead for Ireland. The McFadden/Trimble thing is simply ridiculous in my eyes, there should be no question as to who takes the 14 shirt as any half decent coach would be able to see. Unfortunately Julian Savea will be licking his lips and rubbing his hands at the prospect of facing McFadden again.

P.S. I don't think McFadden should be on the left wing, I think he should be on the bench.

P.P.S. Trimble played at centre for Ulster in his early career.

[Sin é]

Sin é, this is from another newspaper report on the team selection: -

Dan Tuohy and Donnacha Ryan resume their second-row partnership, with Kidney emphasising the Ulster man's proficiency at the line-out as the primary reason why Donncha O'Callaghan remains on the replacement's bench.

No mention of Tuohy being too short

Rava, thank you so much for posting this. What do you have to say now Sin? Is Kidney wrong?

Using Kidneys decision making to make your argument is a bad idea

Yea. Mickado was quoting Kidney yesterday. I had a bit of a giggle at that

[valjester]

I think the pack is absolutely spot on from Kidney and the team that really should have started last week. O'Mahony didn't do enough for me last weekend. That is not to say he played poorly, but he lacks the physicality at this level. I think that is purely an age and experience thing and with another season under his belt at Munster he will be ready to make the step up. I would have liked to see Fitzpatrick start, but choosing between him and Ross was probably a 50/50 call based on fitness.

The backs selection is a complete shambles. The choice of McFadden is a utter joke and the All Blacks with be rubbing their hands with glee. I don't understand the selection of D'Arcy in the side as well. I can accept that Cave didn't play well coming off the bench, but the team as a whole were taking a hammering at that stage and he has had a tremendous season for Ulster. He is the same age as Earls so is relatively young, playing in a problem position for Ireland, has been in excellent form bar one 15 spell in a beaten team last weekend, and he still can't get on the pitch? Earls gets chance after chance, as does Murray. I have absolutely no issue with that whatsoever, but for a player who has had a better season than both to not even get one real chance shows the problem with Kidney's selection. Zebo is a young guy who desperately needs the exposure to international rugby and should have started this match. Yes his defence and positional play were awful last week, but he showed flashes in attack and he will not learn from being on the bench.

Also, God forbid that Kearney gets injured in this match. With no one to cover him it is a disaster waiting to happen. I think I'll be in my bed when this match is on. For the first time ever I am choosing not to watch an Irish international for fear of the result.

LeinsterFan4life, no, there is absolutely no chance. I have no faith in the IRFU in this regard. Let us walk my friend through the mists of time to the days of yore, just prior to the World Cup in 2007 where Eddie O'Sullivan was awarded a nice big fat contract on the eve of the tournament. In the aftermath of his sacking the IRFU said they would not do that again. So what happened with Kidney prior to this World Cup? In fairness it wasn't a long contract, but two seasons in a four year cycle is a huge problem when things are so evidently not going right. I would have said its a case of the bling leading the blinding, but Kidney is clearly deaf and dumb in regards the problems of his tactics and selections, and the huge holes in his coaching staff that exacerbate these problems. Let's not beat around the bush, the irish rugby team is an utter shambles at the moment.

Darcy is full back cover, I think, from previous squads I can remember Darcy being selected as full back cover which is a joke.

[Sin é]

We will differ in opinion obviously but for me you play your strongest players in any position or at the very least your strongest combinations thereof. Persisting with players who aren't working on the side will only see more dark days ahead for Ireland. The McFadden/Trimble thing is simply ridiculous in my eyes, there should be no question as to who takes the 14 shirt as any half decent coach would be able to see. Unfortunately Julian Savea will be licking his lips and rubbing his hands at the prospect of facing McFadden again.

P.S. I don't think McFadden should be on the left wing, I think he should be on the bench.

P.P.S. Trimble played at centre for Ulster in his early career.

Look at it this way, McFadden is used to playing with Sexton, D'Arcy, BOD & Kearney from the right wing (that should help the defence a bit more).

Trimble is used to playing on the left wing with the same personnel.

Zebo has no one he is familiar with playing.

I think you are all being very harsh on McFadden (but more than likely you are just using him to have a go at Kidney). Lots of other people had poor games and were not dropped. McFadden was up against what looks like to be an amazing talent and will be all the better for his experience last week.

I really don't see what the issue is about. There are 3 games and Zebo will get a chance again.

[LeinsterFan4life]

We will differ in opinion obviously but for me you play your strongest players in any position or at the very least your strongest combinations thereof. Persisting with players who aren't working on the side will only see more dark days ahead for Ireland. The McFadden/Trimble thing is simply ridiculous in my eyes, there should be no question as to who takes the 14 shirt as any half decent coach would be able to see. Unfortunately Julian Savea will be licking his lips and rubbing his hands at the prospect of facing McFadden again.

P.S. I don't think McFadden should be on the left wing, I think he should be on the bench.

P.P.S. Trimble played at centre for Ulster in his early career.

Look at it this way, McFadden is used to playing with Sexton, D'Arcy, BOD & Kearney from the right wing (that should help the defence a bit more).

Trimble is used to playing on the left wing with the same personnel.

Zebo has no one he is familiar with playing.

I think you are all being very harsh on McFadden (but more than likely you are just using him to have a go at Kidney). Lots of other people had poor games and were not dropped. McFadden was up against what looks like to be an amazing talent and will be all the better for his experience last week.

I really don't see what the issue is about. There are 3 games and Zebo will get a chance again.

You dont see what the issue is? Do you think that ireland are performing well under kidney or something?

[clivemcl]

Lets be honest guys, nobody had a bad game in the 1st test. Its just that NZ were great in attack. And well we are not. Perhaps the Leinster backline now might improve this, but if they dont manage to play like the have alls eason for their club, then some serious questions need answered of the coach.

[Sin é]

The choice of McFadden is a utter joke and the All Blacks with be rubbing their hands with glee. I don't understand the selection of D'Arcy in the side as well. I can accept that Cave didn't play well coming off the bench, but the team as a whole were taking a hammering at that stage and he has had a tremendous season for Ulster. He is the same age as Earls so is relatively young, playing in a problem position for Ireland, has been in excellent form bar one 15 spell in a beaten team last weekend, and he still can't get on the pitch? Earls gets chance after chance, as does Murray. I have absolutely no issue with that whatsoever, but for a player who has had a better season than both to not even get one real chance shows the problem with Kidney's selection.

Cave's lack of versatility, lack of pace (and a lot of injuries over the years) is the reason why he isn't regarded in the same way as Earls. Even the All Blacks blood their centres on the wing. And I think Earls had an excellent (if injury ravaged season).

Murray has no competition, has ability, strongly built and is young.

[Rory_Gallagher]

McFadden had a shocking game IMO clive.

[Sin é]

We will differ in opinion obviously but for me you play your strongest players in any position or at the very least your strongest combinations thereof. Persisting with players who aren't working on the side will only see more dark days ahead for Ireland. The McFadden/Trimble thing is simply ridiculous in my eyes, there should be no question as to who takes the 14 shirt as any half decent coach would be able to see. Unfortunately Julian Savea will be licking his lips and rubbing his hands at the prospect of facing McFadden again.

P.S. I don't think McFadden should be on the left wing, I think he should be on the bench.

P.P.S. Trimble played at centre for Ulster in his early career.

Look at it this way, McFadden is used to playing with Sexton, D'Arcy, BOD & Kearney from the right wing (that should help the defence a bit more).

Trimble is used to playing on the left wing with the same personnel.

Zebo has no one he is familiar with playing.

I think you are all being very harsh on McFadden (but more than likely you are just using him to have a go at Kidney). Lots of other people had poor games and were not dropped. McFadden was up against what looks like to be an amazing talent and will be all the better for his experience last week.

I really don't see what the issue is about. There are 3 games and Zebo will get a chance again.

You dont see what the issue is? Do you think that ireland are performing well under kidney or something?

I think the team is performing as well as their ability allows. The Ireland players are just not as good as the ABs.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

If that were the case NZ would never lose. You don't have to have the best players to win. You just have to operate as the better team. Scotland does not have the same quality as Australia but they played as a very effective unit. Ireland played as an effective unit in the forwards but were ineffective in the backs. That's not just down to the players, who should shoulder a lot of the blame, but also to the coaches who have them operating particularly on defence like they did.

[LeinsterFan4life]

We will differ in opinion obviously but for me you play your strongest players in any position or at the very least your strongest combinations thereof. Persisting with players who aren't working on the side will only see more dark days ahead for Ireland. The McFadden/Trimble thing is simply ridiculous in my eyes, there should be no question as to who takes the 14 shirt as any half decent coach would be able to see. Unfortunately Julian Savea will be licking his lips and rubbing his hands at the prospect of facing McFadden again.

P.S. I don't think McFadden should be on the left wing, I think he should be on the bench.

P.P.S. Trimble played at centre for Ulster in his early career.

Look at it this way, McFadden is used to playing with Sexton, D'Arcy, BOD & Kearney from the right wing (that should help the defence a bit more).

Trimble is used to playing on the left wing with the same personnel.

Zebo has no one he is familiar with playing.

I think you are all being very harsh on McFadden (but more than likely you are just using him to have a go at Kidney). Lots of other people had poor games and were not dropped. McFadden was up against what looks like to be an amazing talent and will be all the better for his experience last week.

I really don't see what the issue is about. There are 3 games and Zebo will get a chance again.

You dont see what the issue is? Do you think that ireland are performing well under kidney or something?

I think the team is performing as well as their ability allows. The Ireland players are just not as good as the ABs.

I mean over the last year

[Rory_Gallagher]

I find it sad, Sin, that you would rather defend Kidney and belittle our players than just admit he isn't doing a good job.

[clivemcl]

We will differ in opinion obviously but for me you play your strongest players in any position or at the very least your strongest combinations thereof. Persisting with players who aren't working on the side will only see more dark days ahead for Ireland. The McFadden/Trimble thing is simply ridiculous in my eyes, there should be no question as to who takes the 14 shirt as any half decent coach would be able to see. Unfortunately Julian Savea will be licking his lips and rubbing his hands at the prospect of facing McFadden again.

P.S. I don't think McFadden should be on the left wing, I think he should be on the bench.

P.P.S. Trimble played at centre for Ulster in his early career.

Look at it this way, McFadden is used to playing with Sexton, D'Arcy, BOD & Kearney from the right wing (that should help the defence a bit more).

Trimble is used to playing on the left wing with the same personnel.

Zebo has no one he is familiar with playing.

I think you are all being very harsh on McFadden (but more than likely you are just using him to have a go at Kidney). Lots of other people had poor games and were not dropped. McFadden was up against what looks like to be an amazing talent and will be all the better for his experience last week.

I really don't see what the issue is about. There are 3 games and Zebo will get a chance again.

You dont see what the issue is? Do you think that ireland are performing well under kidney or something?

I think the team is performing as well as their ability allows. The Ireland players are just not as good as the ABs.

If a team thats 90% made up of the current european champions can't come close, how can any other NH team hold out any hope? You know these players should be better. Kidney is failing. You simply can't deny that.

[BoyneRFC]

I think the team is performing as well as their ability allows.

Personal attack removed - KRD

[BoyneRFC]

http://kidneyclock.net/

Tick tock...

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

We will differ in opinion obviously but for me you play your strongest players in any position or at the very least your strongest combinations thereof. Persisting with players who aren't working on the side will only see more dark days ahead for Ireland. The McFadden/Trimble thing is simply ridiculous in my eyes, there should be no question as to who takes the 14 shirt as any half decent coach would be able to see. Unfortunately Julian Savea will be licking his lips and rubbing his hands at the prospect of facing McFadden again.

P.S. I don't think McFadden should be on the left wing, I think he should be on the bench.

P.P.S. Trimble played at centre for Ulster in his early career.

Look at it this way, McFadden is used to playing with Sexton, D'Arcy, BOD & Kearney from the right wing (that should help the defence a bit more).

Trimble is used to playing on the left wing with the same personnel.

Zebo has no one he is familiar with playing.

I think you are all being very harsh on McFadden (but more than likely you are just using him to have a go at Kidney). Lots of other people had poor games and were not dropped. McFadden was up against what looks like to be an amazing talent and will be all the better for his experience last week.

I really don't see what the issue is about. There are 3 games and Zebo will get a chance again.

You dont see what the issue is? Do you think that ireland are performing well under kidney or something?

I think the team is performing as well as their ability allows. The Ireland players are just not as good as the ABs.

Sin, granted NZ has some better players. But there's no way the gap in ability is 32 points. Unless Ireland are worse than Tonga

[Thomond]

. Yes his defence and positional play were awful last week, but he showed flashes in attack and he will not learn from being on the bench.

They were stlll a hell of a lot better than McFadden's I have no idea why he is in the team . I think he could be okay at inside centre but after that I doubt it. O'Gara played full back for Munster a few times I think, he hasn't in ages if he has. Might be cover but I don't think I would want to rely on him as the last defender

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

You know you can ignore and mute posters that aggravate you? I did it to one obnoxious guy a couple of weeks and have greatly enjoyed the boards again since.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Kiwi id say tonga would be a tough game for us atm that is how bad we are Playing

[clivemcl]

You know you can ignore and mute posters that aggravate you? I did it to one obnoxious guy a couple of weeks and have greatly enjoyed the boards again since.

Is it not then hard to follow the conversation though? Since you cant see what people are responding to?

Thats if you can read this...

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

You know you can ignore and mute posters that aggravate you? I did it to one obnoxious guy a couple of weeks and have greatly enjoyed the boards again since.

Is it not then hard to follow the conversation though? Since you cant see what people are responding to?

Thats if you can read this...

If the person you mute has nothing of value to say then what are you missing out on?

[valjester]

. Yes his defence and positional play were awful last week, but he showed flashes in attack and he will not learn from being on the bench.

They were stlll a hell of a lot better than McFadden's I have no idea why he is in the team . I think he could be okay at inside centre but after that I doubt it. O'Gara played full back for Munster a few times I think, he hasn't in ages if he has. Might be cover but I don't think I would want to rely on him as the last defender

I really don't understand the McFadden for inside centre idea. The last big game he played for Leinster at 12 was the Rabo last year when he put in a terrible performance. He has played well at times at 13 or on the wing for Leinster but he has never really played well enough to demand to be in the Irish 22 and if it weren't for injuries its unlikely he'd have as many caps as he does. I know he has a good try scoring record but every match he has played for Ireland has seen him make at least one mistake leading to a try per game. We can't afford to have a player giving 5 points to the opposition every game. I don't think he will ever be a regular starter for Ireland.

[Thomond]

I don't want him to start either but if I had to play him I would play him inside as his defending is less likely to get exposed.

[Sin é]

If that were the case NZ would never lose. You don't have to have the best players to win. You just have to operate as the better team. Scotland does not have the same quality as Australia but they played as a very effective unit. Ireland played as an effective unit in the forwards but were ineffective in the backs. That's not just down to the players, who should shoulder a lot of the blame, but also to the coaches who have them operating particularly on defence like they did.

Ireland would have a chance of getting a lot closer to the ABs if Ireland had all their best players out there (T Bowe, POC, a fit Luke Fitz for starters).

Carter is just superb and puts NZ on a different plane in comparision to Ireland.

[clivemcl]

Tommy Bowe and POC? Non-leinster players? Explain to me the difference in these leinster guys being unbeatable in europe Sin, and not doing the business for Ireland? If its not kidney, then I guess Nacewa and thorn must be the best players in the world far outweighing Mr. Carter.

[marty2086]

We will differ in opinion obviously but for me you play your strongest players in any position or at the very least your strongest combinations thereof. Persisting with players who aren't working on the side will only see more dark days ahead for Ireland. The McFadden/Trimble thing is simply ridiculous in my eyes, there should be no question as to who takes the 14 shirt as any half decent coach would be able to see. Unfortunately Julian Savea will be licking his lips and rubbing his hands at the prospect of facing McFadden again.

P.S. I don't think McFadden should be on the left wing, I think he should be on the bench.

P.P.S. Trimble played at centre for Ulster in his early career.

Look at it this way, McFadden is used to playing with Sexton, D'Arcy, BOD & Kearney from the right wing (that should help the defence a bit more).

Trimble is used to playing on the left wing with the same personnel.

Zebo has no one he is familiar with playing.

I think you are all being very harsh on McFadden (but more than likely you are just using him to have a go at Kidney). Lots of other people had poor games and were not dropped. McFadden was up against what looks like to be an amazing talent and will be all the better for his experience last week.

I really don't see what the issue is about. There are 3 games and Zebo will get a chance again.

You dont see what the issue is? Do you think that ireland are performing well under kidney or something?

I think the team is performing as well as their ability allows. The Ireland players are just not as good as the ABs.

If a team thats 90% made up of the current european champions can't come close, how can any other NH team hold out any hope? You know these players should be better. Kidney is failing. You simply can't deny that.

Dont forget the last 3 European Players of the year too and another contender this year in Sexton

[Sin é]

Tommy Bowe and POC? Non-leinster players? Explain to me the difference in these leinster guys being unbeatable in europe Sin, and not doing the business for Ireland? If its not kidney, then I guess Nacewa and thorn must be the best players in the world far outweighing Mr. Carter.

Tommy Bowe & POC (the equivalent of Nacewa & Brad Thorn) are not in this team. The replacement players in New Zealand are not as good. (And for the 6Ns, POC & BOD were missing).

Leinster are not unbeatable - the Ospreys have just beaten them and Clermont took them fairly close in their game in the HCup (and were subsequently beaten by Toulon in the semi finals of the top 14).

The Reds beat the Crusaders in Super Rugby last season. It didn't follow that Australia were better than NZ internationally?

I'm not sure what your point is about Carter v Thorn.

[The Great Aukster]

Kidney has seriously lost the plot. Thornley is right to question why Redser(!) isn't starting. The only plausible explantion is that if he was starting that would be almost the entire Leinster backline, and Kidney's tactics would be questioned even more. i.e. Why does the same backline perform under one coach and not another?

Declan's excuse seems to be the massive step up from provincial to Test rugby, yet Wales who are a lot worse off regionally step up higher in Tests. Yes but they didn't have the bother of playing to the end of the season... er... except the Ospreys (...and Scarlets).

Alternatively they may have found a group of coaches who are tactically astute and actually inspire them?

[Sin é]

We will differ in opinion obviously but for me you play your strongest players in any position or at the very least your strongest combinations thereof. Persisting with players who aren't working on the side will only see more dark days ahead for Ireland. The McFadden/Trimble thing is simply ridiculous in my eyes, there should be no question as to who takes the 14 shirt as any half decent coach would be able to see. Unfortunately Julian Savea will be licking his lips and rubbing his hands at the prospect of facing McFadden again.

P.S. I don't think McFadden should be on the left wing, I think he should be on the bench.

P.P.S. Trimble played at centre for Ulster in his early career.

Look at it this way, McFadden is used to playing with Sexton, D'Arcy, BOD & Kearney from the right wing (that should help the defence a bit more).

Trimble is used to playing on the left wing with the same personnel.

Zebo has no one he is familiar with playing.

I think you are all being very harsh on McFadden (but more than likely you are just using him to have a go at Kidney). Lots of other people had poor games and were not dropped. McFadden was up against what looks like to be an amazing talent and will be all the better for his experience last week.

I really don't see what the issue is about. There are 3 games and Zebo will get a chance again.

You dont see what the issue is? Do you think that ireland are performing well under kidney or something?

I think the team is performing as well as their ability allows. The Ireland players are just not as good as the ABs.

If a team thats 90% made up of the current european champions can't come close, how can any other NH team hold out any hope? You know these players should be better. Kidney is failing. You simply can't deny that.

Dont forget the last 3 European Players of the year too and another contender this year in Sexton

There were 3* kiwi players shortlisted in world player of the year and they are not even in the AB starting line-up this season.

*Weepu, Nonu, Kaino

[marty2086]

We will differ in opinion obviously but for me you play your strongest players in any position or at the very least your strongest combinations thereof. Persisting with players who aren't working on the side will only see more dark days ahead for Ireland. The McFadden/Trimble thing is simply ridiculous in my eyes, there should be no question as to who takes the 14 shirt as any half decent coach would be able to see. Unfortunately Julian Savea will be licking his lips and rubbing his hands at the prospect of facing McFadden again.

P.S. I don't think McFadden should be on the left wing, I think he should be on the bench.

P.P.S. Trimble played at centre for Ulster in his early career.

Look at it this way, McFadden is used to playing with Sexton, D'Arcy, BOD & Kearney from the right wing (that should help the defence a bit more).

Trimble is used to playing on the left wing with the same personnel.

Zebo has no one he is familiar with playing.

I think you are all being very harsh on McFadden (but more than likely you are just using him to have a go at Kidney). Lots of other people had poor games and were not dropped. McFadden was up against what looks like to be an amazing talent and will be all the better for his experience last week.

I really don't see what the issue is about. There are 3 games and Zebo will get a chance again.

You dont see what the issue is? Do you think that ireland are performing well under kidney or something?

I think the team is performing as well as their ability allows. The Ireland players are just not as good as the ABs.

If a team thats 90% made up of the current european champions can't come close, how can any other NH team hold out any hope? You know these players should be better. Kidney is failing. You simply can't deny that.

Dont forget the last 3 European Players of the year too and another contender this year in Sexton

There were 3* kiwi players shortlisted in world player of the year and they are not even in the AB starting line-up this season.

*Weepu, Nonu, Kaino

So they could be stronger then? So it should be even easier and still they are failing?

[Sin é]

Kidney has seriously lost the plot. Thornley is right to question why Redser(!) isn't starting. The only plausible explantion is that if he was starting that would be almost the entire Leinster backline, and Kidney's tactics would be questioned even more. i.e. Why does the same backline perform under one coach and not another?

Declan's excuse seems to be the massive step up from provincial to Test rugby, yet Wales who are a lot worse off regionally step up higher in Tests. Yes but they didn't have the bother of playing to the end of the season... er... except the Ospreys (...and Scarlets).

Alternatively they may have found a group of coaches who are tactically astute and actually inspire them?

When is the last time Wales beat either South Africa, NZ or Australia?

[BoyneRFC]

Kiwi, personal attack me hole. He his always spewing that and has called me slow several times.

[Sin é]

We will differ in opinion obviously but for me you play your strongest players in any position or at the very least your strongest combinations thereof. Persisting with players who aren't working on the side will only see more dark days ahead for Ireland. The McFadden/Trimble thing is simply ridiculous in my eyes, there should be no question as to who takes the 14 shirt as any half decent coach would be able to see. Unfortunately Julian Savea will be licking his lips and rubbing his hands at the prospect of facing McFadden again.

P.S. I don't think McFadden should be on the left wing, I think he should be on the bench.

P.P.S. Trimble played at centre for Ulster in his early career.

Look at it this way, McFadden is used to playing with Sexton, D'Arcy, BOD & Kearney from the right wing (that should help the defence a bit more).

Trimble is used to playing on the left wing with the same personnel.

Zebo has no one he is familiar with playing.

I think you are all being very harsh on McFadden (but more than likely you are just using him to have a go at Kidney). Lots of other people had poor games and were not dropped. McFadden was up against what looks like to be an amazing talent and will be all the better for his experience last week.

I really don't see what the issue is about. There are 3 games and Zebo will get a chance again.

You dont see what the issue is? Do you think that ireland are performing well under kidney or something?

I think the team is performing as well as their ability allows. The Ireland players are just not as good as the ABs.

If a team thats 90% made up of the current european champions can't come close, how can any other NH team hold out any hope? You know these players should be better. Kidney is failing. You simply can't deny that.

Dont forget the last 3 European Players of the year too and another contender this year in Sexton

There were 3* kiwi players shortlisted in world player of the year and they are not even in the AB starting line-up this season.

*Weepu, Nonu, Kaino

So they could be stronger then? So it should be even easier and still they are failing?

I don't understand what you are asking.

[Pete330v2]

Wales have been made to look better than they really are, I mean Ireland should have beaten them in the 6 nations and would have had it not been for the attentions of Headless Chicken Wayne Barnes and Blind Dave Pearson.

[Rory_Gallagher]

PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD.

[Thomond]

Wales deserved to beat us that day pete. We had our chances and didn't take them. We can't have many complaints.

[Mickado]

Declan's excuse seems to be the massive step up from provincial to Test rugby, yet Wales who are a lot worse off regionally step up higher in Tests.

This is the linchpin to the entire defense that the management are using. people are rightly asking why we perform well for our provinces and not for our country and that’s the ONLY possible explanation.

But it’s complete rubbish. Leinster and Munster can win away in France, Ireland can’t. We can win the HC, Ireland can only manage 2 wins in the HC, we can beat English teams for fun, we get HAMMERED In the 6nations. Is every other nation not under the same contstraints as us? In fact with central contracts, the committee that rubber stamp all foreign imports (can’t remember the acronym), player welfare programs etc. should we not have a much smoother transition to the international stage? OF COURSE WE SHOULD.

If it can be shown that the step up to international level is MASSIVE, then blame can be shifted from the management. Simple as.

[Pete330v2]

Kidney's words on the retention of McFadden on the right wing.

"We could (switch), but left wing and right are two totally different positions," said Kidney, "so if you're exposed on the right you're definitely going to be exposed on the left."

So he's happy to leave the right wing exposed simply because if he switched the left wing would be even more exposed?

My mind is boggled!!!!

[Pete330v2]

Wales deserved to beat us that day pete. We had our chances and didn't take them. We can't have many complaints.

But I only had 2 complaints Thomond and I named them

[Thomond]

The ref isn't the one who loses the game for you.

[clivemcl]

Kidney's words on the retention of McFadden on the right wing.

"We could (switch), but left wing and right are two totally different positions," said Kidney, "so if you're exposed on the right you're definitely going to be exposed on the left."

So he's happy to leave the right wing exposed simply because if he switched the left wing would be even more exposed?

My mind is boggled!!!!

Shut up, did he actually say that?

[LeinsterFan4life]

Kidney's words on the retention of McFadden on the right wing.

"We could (switch), but left wing and right are two totally different positions," said Kidney, "so if you're exposed on the right you're definitely going to be exposed on the left."

So he's happy to leave the right wing exposed simply because if he switched the left wing would be even more exposed?

My mind is boggled!!!!

Shut up, did he actually say that?

Ye its true he did say that funny isn't it

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Kiwi, personal attack me hole. He his always spewing that and has called me slow several times.

Really? That's what the "report" button is for.

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