Ireland vs New Zealand 2nd Test: Team announcements and matchday thread.

[Biltong]

First topic message reminder :

Sorry boys new thread other one is full.


Venue for the 2nd test: AMI Stadium (Addington) - formerly Rugby League Park Christchurch
Capacity: 26,000 incl. temporary seating
Weather http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2192362 (current forecast for Saturday evening is around 3 degrees C and light rain. But last week's snow has melted at least)


courtesy of Taylorman:

NZ team named- only one change- Thompson for Vito (injured) with Sam Cane on the bench...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7098902/Thomson-in-for-Vito-Cane-on-All-Blacks-bench

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Adam Thomson, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Sam Cane, Ali Williams, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith

Irish team:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)


Tour Previews
http://www.v2journal.com/new-zealands-june-tests-preview.html
http://www.v2journal.com/irelands-summer-tour.html

[Sin é]

Kiwi, personal attack me hole. He his always spewing that and has called me slow several times.

Really? That's what the "report" button is for.

Perhaps you might ask Boyne to provide a link to where I called him 'slow'. It shouldn't be difficult to post them here, since apparently I have called him slow several times.

[The Great Aukster]

Kidney's words on the retention of McFadden on the right wing.

"We could (switch), but left wing and right are two totally different positions," said Kidney, "so if you're exposed on the right you're definitely going to be exposed on the left."

So he's happy to leave the right wing exposed simply because if he switched the left wing would be even more exposed?

My mind is boggled!!!!

Shut up, did he actually say that?

Ye its true he did say that funny isn't it

It would be funny if it wasn't tragic.

[Sin é]

The ref isn't the one who loses the game for you.

No, but being lucky with a few ref's calls can win a game for you, as no doubt the Welsh will happily admit!

[Thomond]

The team who deserves to win will win the game 9/10 times. The Welsh deserved to win both games with marginal calls. The way we performed tactically in those games was alrgely down to the coaching staff.

[marty2086]

I don't understand what you are asking.

I was trying to understand your point, your saying that NZ were missing 3 World Player contenders so is your point that they are that good they dont need them or that they are weaker?

[Sin é]

The team who deserves to win will win the game 9/10 times. The Welsh deserved to win both games with marginal calls. The way we performed tactically in those games was alrgely down to the coaching staff.

Actually, you'd have to blame POC for not instructing Sexton to kick for a lineout (and winding down the clock) rather than trying to take a very difficult kick at goal and handing possession back to Wales.

All in hindsight, mind.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

I don't understand what you are asking.

I was trying to understand your point, your saying that NZ were missing 3 World Player contenders so is your point that they are that good they dont need them or that they are weaker?

We're definitely weaker without Kaino. Weepu and Nonu aren't starting because of fitness either - Nonu's been off his game due to playing in Japan in the off season rather than haivng a break, while Weepu is still recovering from all the pies he ate at Xmas, so I'd say we're weaker than if we had their 2011 versions available.

[LeinsterFan4life]

The team who deserves to win will win the game 9/10 times. The Welsh deserved to win both games with marginal calls. The way we performed tactically in those games was alrgely down to the coaching staff.

Actually, you'd have to blame POC for not instructing Sexton to kick for a lineout (and winding down the clock) rather than trying to take a very difficult kick at goal and handing possession back to Wales.

All in hindsight, mind.

Actually you have to blame kidney because of his tactics and blame les kiss because of our terrible defence that game

[Sin é]

I don't understand what you are asking.

I was trying to understand your point, your saying that NZ were missing 3 World Player contenders so is your point that they are that good they dont need them or that they are weaker?

They are that good, they don't need the. World player of the year is of a higher standard than european player of the year and Nonu & Weepu are not first choice anymore.

[Mickado]

Weepu’s nomination was a joke. He’s not actually that good at all. did anyone wonder why AB fans were excited about the young lad who made his debut against us? He provides quick ball, Weepu, Cowan, Leonard etc. don’t.

[The Great Aukster]

Actually you have to blame kidney because of his tactics and blame les kiss because of our terrible defence that game

Like last Saturday really. If you keep putting the same rubbish in you keep getting the same rubbish out.

[marty2086]

I don't understand what you are asking.

I was trying to understand your point, your saying that NZ were missing 3 World Player contenders so is your point that they are that good they dont need them or that they are weaker?

They are that good, they don't need the. World player of the year is of a higher standard than european player of the year and Nonu & Weepu are not first choice anymore.

Is it not more that Hansens picking on form rather than reputation?
Smith and Williams are playing well in teams that are playing some exciting rugby whereas Weepu and Nonu are playing in a struggling Blues team and looking well short of their best

Their basically doing what Kidney is afraid to do, he dipped his toe in the water in the 1st test got burnt now hes reverting back to the same old minus DOC

[Sin é]

[quote="marty2086"]

I don't understand what you are asking.

I was trying to understand your point, your saying that NZ were missing 3 World Player contenders so is your point that they are that good they dont need them or that they are weaker?

They are that good, they don't need the. World player of the year is of a higher standard than european player of the year and Nonu & Weepu are not first choice anymore.

Is it not more that Hansens picking on form rather than reputation?

Or these awards should be taken with a grain of salt.

Their basically doing what Kidney is afraid to do, he dipped his toe in the water in the 1st test got burnt now hes reverting back to the same old minus DOC

I really don't get your point there. Ireland doesn't have the same depth of talent as NZ.

[clivemcl]

Yea but kidney dipped his toe in the water and got a below par performance from Zebo in his debut. Wheras NZ debut bags three tries.

I believe there is a serious mentality problem in our team, and I believe it comes from players not liking kidney and not liking his coaching and selections. This affects our attitude on the pitch.

Either way, its clear for everyone to see, Kidney is not getting the full potential out of these players.

[Sin é]

Yea but kidney dipped his toe in the water and got a below par performance from Zebo in his debut. Wheras NZ debut bags three tries.

I believe there is a serious mentality problem in our team, and I believe it comes from players not liking kidney and not liking his coaching and selections. This affects our attitude on the pitch.

Either way, its clear for everyone to see, Kidney is not getting the full potential out of these players.

Smith and Retallick didn't bag any tries and they were making their debut. Was their performance below par as well?

[clivemcl]

Nope, but I'm sure if you go and look at the stats (since you love that) you will find that they probably played better than most of the Ireland team. And these are guys who have never played at this level before.

Why cant Kidney get our players (including debutants) to have good games, when they prove they can do it provincially?

[Rory_Gallagher]

Yea but kidney dipped his toe in the water and got a below par performance from Zebo in his debut. Wheras NZ debut bags three tries.

I believe there is a serious mentality problem in our team, and I believe it comes from players not liking kidney and not liking his coaching and selections. This affects our attitude on the pitch.

Either way, its clear for everyone to see, Kidney is not getting the full potential out of these players.

Smith and Retallick didn't bag any tries and they were making their debut. Was their performance below par as well?

Sin the amount of changes you make in your argument is unreal. I thought a winger's job is to score tries? Not a 9, or a 4.

[Thomond]

Nope, but I'm sure if you go and look at the stats (since you love that) you will find that they probably played better than most of the Ireland team. And these are guys who have never played at this level before.

Why cant Kidney get our players (including debutants) to have good games, when they prove they can do it provincially?

It takes some guys a good bit of time to adjust to international level, that's not all on Kidney.

[marty2086]

Yea but kidney dipped his toe in the water and got a below par performance from Zebo in his debut. Wheras NZ debut bags three tries.

I believe there is a serious mentality problem in our team, and I believe it comes from players not liking kidney and not liking his coaching and selections. This affects our attitude on the pitch.

Either way, its clear for everyone to see, Kidney is not getting the full potential out of these players.

clive your right Savea looked comfortable Zebo didnt and many players in green dont. There was a freedom and joy in the way NZ played whereas Ireland play with more structure and you see it they try training ground moves and sequences and persist with them when its not on, players play out of position and to a style they are not accustomed too yet NZ do. The Chiefs Crusaders and Hurricanes have been playing that way all season and they make up the core of the squad yet do Ireland play like Leinster who make up the core of the Ireland squad?

[asoreleftshoulder]

No Zebo= joke. McFadden shouldn't be near that side. Okay with D'Arcy, I mean Earls is out. McLaughlin being in is fair enough, POM wasn't at his best.
I think we need a combination of Murray/Reddan. There's a reason Reddan doesn't start a lot of the away HC games. Unleash Reddan at half time or 50 minutes in and see what he can do.

Yeah it's a pretty decent side except for that one call,still I'm glad he has given Touhy another shot although I'm slightly disappointed that Cave has dropped out of the squad,I'd have preferred a straight swap with him coming in for Earls and McFadden on the bench with Trimble on the right wing.

POM is unlucky but McLoughlin has earned a game with his form this season and there's no point flogging the same 15 over the 3 weeks we need to give games to everyone.

I don't think Kidney has done that badly with his team selections so far but unless there is a coherent gameplan then it makes no difference.

[Pete330v2]

The ref isn't the one who loses the game for you.

No but he can decide how the match pans out.
It's like when you get someone like Nigel Owens officiating you can then leave it up to the players to decide the outcome.
With the Barnes/Pearson axis they ultimately tend to shape the match and therefore the outcome. Very bad officials and for us against Wales not awarding one red card whilst awarding the yellow that never was did turn out to be decisive. Thankfully Barnes and Pearson will be made to disappear.

[Sin é]

Yea but kidney dipped his toe in the water and got a below par performance from Zebo in his debut. Wheras NZ debut bags three tries.

I believe there is a serious mentality problem in our team, and I believe it comes from players not liking kidney and not liking his coaching and selections. This affects our attitude on the pitch.

Either way, its clear for everyone to see, Kidney is not getting the full potential out of these players.

clive your right Savea looked comfortable Zebo didnt and many players in green dont. There was a freedom and joy in the way NZ played whereas Ireland play with more structure and you see it they try training ground moves and sequences and persist with them when its not on, players play out of position and to a style they are not accustomed too yet NZ do. The Chiefs Crusaders and Hurricanes have been playing that way all season and they make up the core of the squad yet do Ireland play like Leinster who make up the core of the Ireland squad?

So, its all down to Henry/Hanesn that the ABs are the No. 1 team in the world and all down to the Irish management that Ireland are ranked no 8 in the world. Nothing what to do with the ability of the players whatsoever. Sexton would be as good a player as Carter if he had Reddan as his scrumhalf? Is that what you are claiming?

So you expect all the provinces to play like Leinster at the drop of a hat? If thats the case Ulster would have played like Leinster and beat them in the HCup final then?

[Thomond]

The ref isn't the one who loses the game for you.

No but he can decide how the match pans out.
It's like when you get someone like Nigel Owens officiating you can then leave it up to the players to decide the outcome.
With the Barnes/Pearson axis they ultimately tend to shape the match and therefore the outcome. Very bad officials and for us against Wales not awarding one red card whilst awarding the yellow that never was did turn out to be decisive. Thankfully Barnes and Pearson will be made to disappear.

Wales were deserved winners in both games so I think it means feic all what they did or didn't do.

[Sin é]

The ref isn't the one who loses the game for you.

No but he can decide how the match pans out.
It's like when you get someone like Nigel Owens officiating you can then leave it up to the players to decide the outcome.
With the Barnes/Pearson axis they ultimately tend to shape the match and therefore the outcome. Very bad officials and for us against Wales not awarding one red card whilst awarding the yellow that never was did turn out to be decisive. Thankfully Barnes and Pearson will be made to disappear.

Wales were deserved winners in both games so I think it means feic all what they did or didn't do.

No they were not deserving. They were lucky. I'm not complaining about the win, as luck tends to even itself out in the long run.

[Thomond]

No they were the better team than us in both games.

[Pete330v2]

Ah come on, the match in the 6 nations at the Aviva?
Wales deserved winners?
I mean the Irish players could have done more, played better, held on for the win etc but failure to spot a blatant red carding offence whilst blowing for a match winning penalty for a text book, legal tackle isn't the influence of the officials?
Reffing in the Pro12 is even worse and bad decision making by officials not worthy of the job are always shaping matches and deciding outcomes.

Anyway that is all for another thread.

[Rava]

The ref isn't the one who loses the game for you.

No but he can decide how the match pans out.
It's like when you get someone like Nigel Owens officiating you can then leave it up to the players to decide the outcome.
With the Barnes/Pearson axis they ultimately tend to shape the match and therefore the outcome. Very bad officials and for us against Wales not awarding one red card whilst awarding the yellow that never was did turn out to be decisive. Thankfully Barnes and Pearson will be made to disappear.

Wales were deserved winners in both games so I think it means feic all what they did or didn't do.

No they were not deserving. They were lucky. I'm not complaining about the win, as luck tends to even itself out in the long run.

We must be due a sh1t load of luck soon then

[clivemcl]

Yea but kidney dipped his toe in the water and got a below par performance from Zebo in his debut. Wheras NZ debut bags three tries.

I believe there is a serious mentality problem in our team, and I believe it comes from players not liking kidney and not liking his coaching and selections. This affects our attitude on the pitch.

Either way, its clear for everyone to see, Kidney is not getting the full potential out of these players.

clive your right Savea looked comfortable Zebo didnt and many players in green dont. There was a freedom and joy in the way NZ played whereas Ireland play with more structure and you see it they try training ground moves and sequences and persist with them when its not on, players play out of position and to a style they are not accustomed too yet NZ do. The Chiefs Crusaders and Hurricanes have been playing that way all season and they make up the core of the squad yet do Ireland play like Leinster who make up the core of the Ireland squad?

So, its all down to Henry/Hanesn that the ABs are the No. 1 team in the world and all down to the Irish management that Ireland are ranked no 8 in the world. Nothing what to do with the ability of the players whatsoever. Sexton would be as good a player as Carter if he had Reddan as his scrumhalf? Is that what you are claiming?

So you expect all the provinces to play like Leinster at the drop of a hat? If thats the case Ulster would have played like Leinster and beat them in the HCup final then?

You think the ABs would be as good with Kidney coaching them? You dont believe their quality would suffer at all?? Jeepers, ABs dont even need coaches anymore according to Sin e!

Yes I do expect 5 out of 7 leinster backs to play like they do for leinster, not at a drop of a hat, but after 3/4weeks of training together.

[Rava]

Ah come on, the match in the 6 nations at the Aviva?
Wales deserved winners?
I mean the Irish players could have done more, played better, held on for the win etc but failure to spot a blatant red carding offence whilst blowing for a match winning penalty for a text book, legal tackle isn't the influence of the officials?
Reffing in the Pro12 is even worse and bad decision making by officials not worthy of the job are always shaping matches and deciding outcomes.

Anyway that is all for another thread.

Yes Pete. Why don't you start a new thread on that subject... No wait.... I do believe there were several discussions at the time

[Thomond]

Ah come on, the match in the 6 nations at the Aviva?
Wales deserved winners?
I mean the Irish players could have done more, played better, held on for the win etc but failure to spot a blatant red carding offence whilst blowing for a match winning penalty for a text book, legal tackle isn't the influence of the officials?
Reffing in the Pro12 is even worse and bad decision making by officials not worthy of the job are always shaping matches and deciding outcomes.

Anyway that is all for another thread.

Wales were the better team for the majority of that game, Ireland played putrid rugby, and deserved to be beaten. The decision annoyed me but that's the waythings go. Wales were the better side on the day.

[Sin é]

Yea but kidney dipped his toe in the water and got a below par performance from Zebo in his debut. Wheras NZ debut bags three tries.

I believe there is a serious mentality problem in our team, and I believe it comes from players not liking kidney and not liking his coaching and selections. This affects our attitude on the pitch.

Either way, its clear for everyone to see, Kidney is not getting the full potential out of these players.

clive your right Savea looked comfortable Zebo didnt and many players in green dont. There was a freedom and joy in the way NZ played whereas Ireland play with more structure and you see it they try training ground moves and sequences and persist with them when its not on, players play out of position and to a style they are not accustomed too yet NZ do. The Chiefs Crusaders and Hurricanes have been playing that way all season and they make up the core of the squad yet do Ireland play like Leinster who make up the core of the Ireland squad?

So, its all down to Henry/Hanesn that the ABs are the No. 1 team in the world and all down to the Irish management that Ireland are ranked no 8 in the world. Nothing what to do with the ability of the players whatsoever. Sexton would be as good a player as Carter if he had Reddan as his scrumhalf? Is that what you are claiming?

So you expect all the provinces to play like Leinster at the drop of a hat? If thats the case Ulster would have played like Leinster and beat them in the HCup final then?

You think the ABs would be as good with Kidney coaching them? You dont believe their quality would suffer at all?? Jeepers, ABs dont even need coaches anymore according to Sin e!

Yes I do expect 5 out of 7 leinster backs to play like they do for leinster, not at a drop of a hat, but after 3/4weeks of training together.

Both Howlett & Tipoki didn't get Poopie when coached by Kidney. If anything Tipoki's reputation was enhanced.

You didn't answer my question as to why Ulster don't play like Leinster.

And you haven't come back to me with the details of Wales' last wins over Australia, SA & NZ (thats the Wales that has far better coaching staff than Ireland).

[LeinsterFan4life]

Sin stop asking stupid questions

[clivemcl]

Both Howlett & Tipoki didn't get Poopie when coached by Kidney. If anything Tipoki's reputation was enhanced.

You didn't answer my question as to why Ulster don't play like Leinster.

I guess it might be because we had a school teacher as a coach. (No disrespect to BML)

Whats this 'the other provinces' talk. You mean the few players dotted amonst the HEC champions? Are they really that much of a distraction?

Also, we arnt talking about winning them, so whether Wales have beaten SH or not doesnt matter. We are talking about giving a good fight.

Would the Leinster side lose to the ABs by 32 points. And just how much do Nacewa and thorn contribute to Leinsters success? They must be superhuman...

[LeinsterFan4life]

Clive leinster bought the HC...we are unable to produce quality young irish talent

[clivemcl]

Clive leinster bought the HC...we are unable to produce quality young irish talent

[Sin é]

Are you expecting Ulster to play like Leinster next season then with Anscombe as coach?

I think Thorn was very important - they went to a lot of trouble to get him and then then dropped Toner for him.

Nacewa is one of their most important players (have you noted the fuss about him and player restrictions? Not as much fuss made about anyone else there).

Straus is also very important to them (and ahead of Cronin in the pecking order) in the way they play.

You were waxing lyrically about how the Welsh coaching staff are so much better than the Irish lot ... seems they are falible as well if you look at their record

By the way, I thought Ireland did put up a fight last weekend. They were just totally outclassed by the NZ. Nacewa & Thorn (as ABs) would have both been better than McFadden & Tuohy (so probably wouldn't have had all those tries on that wing).

Leinster just lost to the Ospreys at home (a very young team), so who knows how they would have coped even with Thorn, Straus & Nacewa against the OBs.

[disneychilly]

The ref isn't the one who loses the game for you.

No but he can decide how the match pans out.
It's like when you get someone like Nigel Owens officiating you can then leave it up to the players to decide the outcome.
With the Barnes/Pearson axis they ultimately tend to shape the match and therefore the outcome. Very bad officials and for us against Wales not awarding one red card whilst awarding the yellow that never was did turn out to be decisive. Thankfully Barnes and Pearson will be made to disappear.

You lot are complaining about Barnes on a Ireland NZ thread-talk about preaching to the choir. I'd say we have more reasons to not like him and ironically we aren't the ones complaining!

[Rory_Gallagher]

Sin, you have literally single handedly ruined these threads for everyone. Well done. I hope you feel proud of yourself, putting down any player who isn't from Munster, boring everyone with stats taken completely out of context, and showing complete ignorance to every counter argument sent your way.

You said you were banned from the Munster supporters site or something, correct? You claimed it was just because they simply disagreed with what you said. Well, I can clearly see there was a LOT more to it than that.

[BoyneRFC]

Well, I can clearly see there was a LOT more to it than that.

Persona non grata. I would much prefer it if you did one TBH.

[marty2086]

Sin, you have literally single handedly ruined these threads for everyone. Well done. I hope you feel proud of yourself, putting down any player who isn't from Munster, boring everyone with stats taken completely out of context, and showing complete ignorance to every counter argument sent your way.

You said you were banned from the Munster supporters site or something, correct? You claimed it was just because they simply disagreed with what you said. Well, I can clearly see there was a LOT more to it than that.

[clivemcl]

For anyone joining this thread and wondering what all this chat with sin e is about - it amounts to this.

According to Sin e, we are just not good enough. Neither management or players are to blame. Thats what I've gathered.

[Sin é]

You said you were banned from the Munster supporters site or something, correct? You claimed it was just because they simply disagreed with what you said. Well, I can clearly see there was a LOT more to it than that.

I was banned from the Politics section of boards.ie (over Lisbon Treaty) because the Mods infracted you there if you didn't agree with them. Thankfully, your not a Mod

(I could go back to boards, but but I haven't bothered).

[LeinsterFan4life]

Spot on clive...he also thinks leinster bought the HC and that all leinster players who are from ireland aren't very good.

[Sin é]

Spot on clive...he also thinks leinster bought the HC and that all leinster players who are from ireland aren't very good.

I've been the only one who has been saying that McFadden should be given another chance ahead of Zebo

And that its a good call to have McLaughlin ahead of POM

Oh and Rory, stop trying to derail that other thread

Do you have a little doll of Kidney to stick pins in over there?

[Mickado]

Nacewa is not an all black. He has one cap for Fiji.

[rodders]

Anyways...surprised McFadden has been retained instead of Zebo but other wise happy enough with the selection.......

Actually no I'm not....McFadden and Murray should have been dropped but hey ho......

Ireland by 5 .

[The Great Aukster]

Are they playing for pints? That's a but more like it, Ireland are world champions at drinking the all black.

Ireland by 30 pints.

[marty2086]

Anyways...surprised McFadden has been retained instead of Zebo but other wise happy enough with the selection.......

Actually no I'm not....McFadden and Murray should have been dropped but hey ho......

Ireland by 5 .

rodders youd take D'Arcy over Cave?

Murray and McFadden I can understand if they were wanting them to learn from their mistakes but if that was the case then Zebo should still be there and D'Arcy shouldnt be

[rodders]

Marty I can see why Kidney has gone for D'arcy. I'd love to see Cave get a run but I don't have an issue with D'arcy getting the nod...with Earls out, its the obvious, albeit conservative call.

I fear for D'arcy against SBW ... but lets face it, we kept him quiet last week and they hit us in the wide channels.... we really need to cut out the handling errors and retain possession irrespective of who is playing.

[Rory_Gallagher]

We might do better with O'Driscoll defending the 13 channel anyway. And Trimble will boost the defences. My real concern is Savea vs McFadden again. Did you happen to see what Kidney has been saying regarding his selections rodders? I'll find the link if you want.

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