Ulster v Tigers : pre-season friendly

I'm not a fan of Anglo-Irish friendlies as the IRFU tend to disallow squad members from competing (especially in England).

But this one is in Belfast so I'm pretty sure that the Tigers will dignify the occasion by sending over a number of 'marqee' players even if only for cameo appearances.

Which fans will be singing Jerusalem this time?

http://www.leicestertigers.com/news/14146.php

Heineken Cup finalists Ulster Rugby have today confirmed that they will host Leicester Tigers in a pre-season fixture on Saturday, August 18 (2.30pm).
The clubs met in last season's European competition, each winning the home tie, before Ulster made it all the way to the final against Leinster.

Ravenhill in Belfast will host the August fixture and tickets will go on sale from Ulster on Thursday, June 28.

Tigers begin their summer schedule with a match away to Jersey on Saturday, August 11 before making the trip to Northern Ireland.

The only home game of the pre-season programme is against Nottingham at Welford Road on Saturday, August 25 (3.00pm).

Entry to that fixture is included in Tigers season tickets for 2012/13.

For all other supporters, tickets will be made available soon.

Two words Portnoys; Player Welfare. We try to make sure our Irish qualified players don't play more than 30 games a season. Pre-season friendlies come well down the list in terms of priority. Dignify my derriere; this is about improving fitness, building confidence in combinations and applying some things from the training paddock to a game situation

But this is our hardest pre-season game. We'll go strong. Whilst Rory Best and Stephen Ferris will only make cameos for match fitness at best, expect to see a number of quality players in the Ulster line-up. I expect we'll name a blend of experienced guys who are either former Boks or All Blacks (Johann Muller, John Afoa) internationals who are out of favour (Roger Wilson, Paddy Wallace), guys who missed the end of the season through injury (Tommy Bowe, Jared Payne, Tom Court) and promising young bucks (Paddy Jackson, Niall Annett, Nevin Spence, Craig Gilroy, Iain Henderson)

Notch wrote:Two words Portnoys; Player Welfare. We try to make sure our Irish qualified players don't play more than 30 games a season. Pre-season friendlies come well down the list in terms of priority. Dignify my derriere; this is about improving fitness, building confidence in combinations and applying some things from the training paddock to a game situation

But this is our hardest pre-season game. We'll go strong. Whilst Rory Best and Stephen Ferris will only make cameos for match fitness at best, expect to see a number of quality players in the Ulster line-up. I expect we'll name a blend of experienced guys who are either former Boks or All Blacks (Johann Muller, John Afoa) internationals who are out of favour (Roger Wilson, Paddy Wallace), guys who missed the end of the season through injury (Tommy Bowe, Jared Payne, Tom Court) and promising young bucks (Paddy Jackson, Niall Annett, Nevin Spence, Craig Gilroy, Iain Henderson)

In a single word Notch; Bolllocks

The purpose of a pre-season is not to play full-contact. But if you expect spectators to cough up good dosh to watch a pre-season, you'd better show some of your A-listers or the punters may walk home less than gruntled.

Well I personally am looking forward to see Ulster play their new names for this game, and to see how the likes of Jackson/Spence/Gilroy do. I will be happy to "cough up good dosh" and watch it. If you see it that way, don't watch. Simples.

As a punter, not my personal experience. I enjoy these games greatly regardless of team selection. Attendance differences between this and competitive action would say that others disagree but there is never less than about 4000+ minimum. Of course Ulster allow free entrance to these games for season ticket holders and prices otherwise are minimal. I don't know how clubs in England handle this in terms of pricing.

But let me tell you; one year Queensland Reds played Ulster in pre-season when they were on a development tour. They had Digby Ioane, Will Genia, James Horwill was Captain. A bunch of wet behind the ears wannabes, nobody knew or cared who they were. I saw them play well before they made the breakthrough. I enjoy that, trying to see who the next stars are.

A few guys you complained so vociferously about Munster naming against the Tigers a while ago would have come along into the senior team, even the national team I suspect. I'm trying to find a teamsheet but can't. I'm thinking guys like O'Mahony would have got there start in that kind of game. Now he's in New Zealand starting against the All Blacks.

I'd rather watch a good game with loads of youngsters than a crap game with loads of 'names'. Thats just me.

These games are pre-season warm ups. Not out and out, must win games. They're to take the edge of the off-season off some of the players and give new faces and chance to play with team mates without it really 'mattering'.

Don't Leicester generally have a relatively easy off season so they're better for the end of the season. I think Sam had mentioned it before. It's one of the reason Leicester tend to build in strength as the season goes so. Surely they're going in under-cooked for the early games and are short-changing fans?

And Notch, it's nice to read that you guys don't give a Poopie about NEQ players. Work them to the bone and toss them on the scrap heap Just protect the IQ ones.

HammerofThunor wrote:And Notch, it's nice to read that you guys don't give a Poopie about NEQ players. Work them to the bone and toss them on the scrap heap Just protect the IQ ones.

Well, thats the weird thing right? The IRFU want to limit the amount of time those guys spend on the pitch to let younger guys get gametime in those positions too. That's the attitude to take. But the IRFU will only force coaches to rest Irish players, or anyone eligible for Ireland more accurately. You could imagine the pressure to win, to entertain and to draw crowds would make it much harder for coaches to choose to rest stars from overseas.

The thing about us resting and rotating players is necessary not just to try and gain an edge in Test Rugby and (unintentionally but inevitably) Heineken Cup by making sure our players are fresh; it's necessary because with only four teams if we played the same team every week no-one would get a chance to come through. You have 12 teams. We have four. Without rotation we couldn't develop youth,

Did I read this right? English Premiership fans complain that they can't rest their stars because of relegation pressures, but they still want to see them in friendlies as well?

Portnoy is. I don't know why you used the plural.

Doesn't Portnoy have split personalities?

I don't think so. He seems consistently grumpy to me. He does post some much it seems like there are few of him around.

I thought his other personality was Sin e..

For me a pre-season friendly is a team warming up for the season, it is for the head coach to put out the team that he thinks will benefit most from it.

Though I do think the Irish player welfare system is interesting - compared to England and Wales which have less central control the Irish provinces do better while the national team does worse.

I agree snoopster. The provinces do better because they are forced to build depth, which encourages competition so injuries don't have as much of an impact.
Ireland does worse because the coach generally picks centrally contracted players over alternative in-form players. This discourages competition for places and injuries have a massive impact.

See, I'm an Ulster rugby fan.

I love to watch Ulster play.

I don't turn up to see Stephen Ferris and 14 others or Rory Best and 14 others. I turn up to watch the Ulster team play and to support the Ulster team.

If you only show up to see certain players then maybe you would be better off not turning up at all.
Pre-season friendlies are an extension of pre-season training involving a contact session with unfamiliar opposition at which spectators are allowed.

Maybe your expectations need readjusting Portnoy?

[quote]Maybe your expectations need readjusting Portnoy?[quote]Maybe they do MmeF,

I wonder if there will be any disappointed Ulstermen if the Tigers pitch up lacking their England stars and Castro?

These games tend to have unlimited substitutions and maybe a promotional aspect to them - maybe as a cheap introduction to pro rugby and the away side in my opinion, has an implicit duty to allow supporters, young kids, etc. to go home and say "I saw Manu and Youngs and Flood and Dan Cole today".

Unlike Tigers fans who never even got a glimpse of BOD etc. when Leinster pitched up at Welford Road a couple of seasons ago. OK the likes of SOB were there - but before they had gained widespread rugby recognition.

I take myself back to when I was a pre-teen and saw a representative game at WR and was able to say to my mum "I saw Dickie Jeeps and Richard Sharp today". An I took the rugby bait.

Don't Leicester generally have a relatively easy off season so they're better for the end of the season. I think Sam had mentioned it before. It's one of the reason Leicester tend to build in strength as the season goes so. Surely they're going in under-cooked for the early games and are short-changing fans?

Hammer, Tigers had an easy pre season last year because the squad was so heavilly diminished with international call ups and a couple of serious injuries (Newby and Crane) that Cockers was concerned about losing more players to injury. Normally pre season is fairly high tempo and a large portion of the squad see some action. The first team names will all see action if available (rest period and injuries aside).

The Leicester vs Leinster friendly the other year was quite enjoyable, both teams had fairly strong lineups out and it was played at approaching full intensity (certainly from Hines).

http://www.leicestertigers.com/rugby/2129.php

This is the game vs Munster write up:

http://www.leicestertigers.com/rugby/2128.php

[quote="Portnoy"][quote]Maybe your expectations need readjusting Portnoy?

Maybe they do MmeF,

I wonder if there will be any disappointed Ulstermen if the Tigers pitch up lacking their England stars and Castro?

These games tend to have unlimited substitutions and maybe a promotional aspect to them - maybe as a cheap introduction to pro rugby and the away side in my opinion, has an implicit duty to allow supporters, young kids, etc. to go home and say "I saw Manu and Youngs and Flood and Dan Cole today".

Unlike Tigers fans who never even got a glimpse of BOD etc. when Leinster pitched up at Welford Road a couple of seasons ago. OK the likes of SOB were there - but before they had gained widespread rugby recognition.

I take myself back to when I was a pre-teen and saw a representative game at WR and was able to say to my mum "I saw Dickie Jeeps and Richard Sharp today". An I took the rugby bait.

That is where I completely disagree Ports.

The team has a duty only to use the game as best as it can to prepare for the season ahead.

We get to watch.

Anyone who goes to a pre-season friendly should understand that it is a squad training exercise, not a competitive game.

I have no idea what other clubs charge to watch these matches but I would guess the ticket is cheaper than for a match during the season. Why would you expect the "product" to be the same as a competitive match?

Why would you expect the "product" to be the same as a competitive match?

I don't MmeF

And I said that. If you want a training game in Belfast - then have one.

What I'm saying is that these are not training games. These are enticements to the new season played in public for a paying crowd (whether or not included in a ST deal).

Of course you couldn't expect a full-blown competitive contest.

But if you took the Poissonettes to the game to see the Tigers, would they be disappointed if they shoved up a B-side?

Portnoy wrote:

Maybe your expectations need readjusting Portnoy?

Maybe they do MmeF,

I wonder if there will be any disappointed Ulstermen if the Tigers pitch up lacking their England stars and Castro?

These games tend to have unlimited substitutions and maybe a promotional aspect to them - maybe as a cheap introduction to pro rugby and the away side in my opinion, has an implicit duty to allow supporters, young kids, etc. to go home and say "I saw Manu and Youngs and Flood and Dan Cole today".

Good point. I wouldn't care less. But I'm diehard, not casual. The hook got into me long ago.

There's a valid enough point here, but for Ulster I think it's still the case. Afoa, Muller, Bowe etc. All likely to feature. And I think it's different to us. We're very parochial. Nobody really cares about Dan Cole. Dan Cole is much less exciting to see than an Ulster born lad who has nowhere near the same standing in the game. Maybe it if was Jonny Wilkinson or... there's not really another current English player who could capture the imaginations of the general public I think I think kids and causals would/will be disappointed if Ulster shoved out a B-side. The opposition is pretty incidental to us.

But I think we will see some Ulster 'stars' against Leicester and some rising stars too.

Personally I'd hope Tigers take the opportunity to experiment in this friendly. Something like:

1.Mulipola
2.Youngs
3.Bookes (if he's recovered, if not Castro)
4.Slater
5.Kitchener
6.Mafi
7.Salvi
8.Crane
9.Harrison
10.Ford
11.Lewington
12.Bowden
13.Manu
14.Benjamin
15.Tait

not a B side really but an experimental first team. We shoved out a first team at Ravenhill and saw that they like to kick and pressurise and how Geordan was left a touch isolated. Want to see how the young guys go in such a hard working game (lot's of running for/in support). Trial the Bowden/Ford partnership and see how the young 9/10 combo go against that big Ulster pack. A good trial for Kitchener and Youngs in the lineout as well.

Would enjoy seeing that team to be honest, NoLongerSam.

I like Mulipola! He's going to be a box office player like The Beast is in South Africa.

Is Crane going to be second choice to Waldrom when he returns?

I think Leicester will go hard in this game, they'll go for it.

The last two times they've been to Ravenhill have been very bad for them. They'll want to create some good memories at the ground in case they are coming back here soon in a competitive game.

There's a hope Brookes will be a similar type of player to Mulipola as they are both huge units that love to crash through contact. They both need a little work in the scrum but as Mulipola is only 24 (and has been largely semi pro up to this point) and Brookes is 21 then there's still loads of time for them to advance. That is if Brookes can get over the horrendous leg break he suffered at the start of last season.

Rory, Crane has never been second choice behind Waldrom. Previously when they were both available Crane started and Waldrom was used as an impact sub replacing either Crane or the openside Newby. It will depend how Crane fares when he returns from injury but I'd expect him to be first choice soon enough.

I like Crane. He is a great option at 8, and will push Morgan for the english shirt IMO.

He is a very different option to Morgan but I agree that he should be pushing on for more international honours. He's captained the Saxons under Lancaster and if it wasn't for injury may well have been Lancaster's go to player for the 8 shirt this season. Massive work load, will carry through a brick wall and doesn't stop or slow down over 80 mins. He's a real machine and Tigers have really missed him when he's been injured.