AllBlacks team annouced

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10827235
Woodcock
Mealamu
O.Franks
Romano
Whitelock
Messam
Read
McCaw
A.Smith
Carter
Gear
Williams
Nonu
Jane
Dagg
BENCH
Hore
B.Franks
Vito
Retalick
Weepu
Cruden
B.Smith
Pretty predictable mostly conservative choices Thomson plus one Back will travel in casre of illness/injury 24 in all.

Good man Alan. Cheers. for posting the team.

Is Ellison still with an injury cloud? I think B Smith is a conservative option on the bench. He can cover fullback, wing and outside centre so I guess versatility counts in his favour but I'd like to see a more dangerous attacking option to come on to cause havoc.

How will Nonu come back after being out and how well will he work outside SBW, who is playing in his best position?

Ben Franks has been disappointing when he's come on. Weepu has been equally disappointing. Cruden is an exciting option on the bench and Retalick is getting his feet wet in test rugby still but overall that bench looks pretty frail and uninspiring in my view. Let's hope the starting team does the business.

Agree with Alan re thompson. He's a better 6 than vito and a proven big game player. Sydney also wasn't great for vito a couple of years ago. Don't like players getting picked for their cover versatility when they're not el supremo in any one position.

Other than that love the backline. Very solid despite missing smiths lithe skills.

Mealamu and nonu need to shake the blues blues off quickly.

I don't mind Romano starting as he had a blinder against Ireland last time. Hopefully it convinced him that he can make the step up for real-he's never convinced me. Neither have Vito or Thomson so it's six of one half a dozen of the other for me really.

Agree about the bench. There is no impact there save for Cruden running at tired forwards. Would much rather have Ellison there. Ben Franks seems to have regressed which is very disappointing. Worried about the front rowers coming through.

Love the backs too. Conrad back would make it my best available XV. Am confident that SBW and Nonu will be able to handle Fainga'a and Horne-don't think the Aussies will be as able to exploit weaknesses in defensive positioning as they would be with Barnes and AAC in the midfield.

My only problem is Weepu.

Disney
although I understand why you make your comment about Ellison, however it appears that Smith has to cover every back position apart from halfback and first five.

Correction an extra Prop plus Thomson are travelling to Australia,it seems a case of horses for courses.As I understand it Thomson will jump in the lineout at 4/5 if a Lock is injured according to Hansen.This really is a must win for the All Blacks win this one and taking nothing for granted they will win at Home and the Bledisloe is locked up for another year.The starting side 6 apart is about the strongest they can put out.At test level Messam has been very much in and out another utility flanker.The Bench is uninspiring unless you try Carter at 10 and Crudon at 12.Ben Smith is a safe pair of hands but is covering 3 positions,Weepu is showing no form.BUT like Nonu ,Jane,Mealamu he usually performs in Black.The Wallabies on paper have a weaker tight 5, nothing in it in the back rows so it`s down to the backs.Wallabies have the stronger bench and Slippers and Drew Mitchell will have more impact.AB`s have a good hooker/Lock backup Ben Franks if he covers tight head is ok but unconvicing on the loosehead against a strong front rower.Next year with Crockett there it will be much stronger.Vito like Messam does`nt fill me with confidence but if he goes to 7 RM to 6 or 8 they should be ok.This one is too close to call and I think this series as a whole will have a lot of brutal forward play involved by all sides.

The ABs are well aware of the Sydney threat and both last tests played there we scraped by one point, losing the one before that in 2008. We also lost the semi final in 2003 so the talk is of the highest respect it seems.

Two interesting stats:
26 Jul 2003 New Zealand v Australia 50-21 Sydney

four months later:
15 Nov 2003 WC Semi New Zealand v Australia 10-22 Sydney

and...

09 Jun 2007 New Zealand v France 61-10

four months later:
06 Oct 2007 WC Quart New Zealand v France 18-20 Millennium Stadium, Cardiff N

hmmm...

Taylorman

Yes, on a similar vein I heard Mathew Cooper being interviewed this morning, and he saying something along the lines of: Although there may be a couple of standout ommissions from the wallaby team, and they may have one or two soft places on paper, but when its put into the full context of a full green and gold homebush and the recent record there, then its not all that significant.

Still,
Of the three main squads we certainly have the edge on the depth. Wouldnt be surprised if we win them all to be honest.

That backline has some crazy size and talent about it. If anything Carter looks the slowhand there almost. Theyll be tempted to bring Cruden on early I'll bet.

Kerr Barlow would be interesting against Genia if it ever happens as he like to get in the face of the opposite half quite a lot I've noticed.

[quote="kiakahaaotearoa"]Good man Alan. Cheers. for posting the team.

Is Ellison still with an injury cloud? I think B Smith is a conservative option on the bench. He can cover fullback, wing and outside centre so I guess versatility counts in his favour but I'd like to see a more dangerous attacking option to come on to cause havoc.

Maybe I am biased kia-nz but I reckon Smith should be cut a little slack. His stats in this years Super XV are fairly impressive. He was 3rd in run metres (behind Hosea & SBW), 4th in offloads (SBW, K Daniel+Cruden) plus near top of list in linebreaks and runs.
I know stats aint everything but as an Otago fan I've watched him play consistently well in some garbage teams.
His ABs opportunities have been limited due to some quality players ahead of him in the pecking order. Think Mils, Israel, SBW, Toeave etc.
I say lets defer judgement til end of 4N.
(no AB should be judged on 2009 win vs Italy in Milan!!!)

odd that Romano is ahead of Retallick. Nice to see good ABs form by Messam and Gear rewarded. A pretty strong team

I'm in the little guarded about Ben Smith camp too in that he falls into the very useful category we are so used to having, jack of all trades master of none.

But in saying that I have been watching him a lot closer now hes on the doorstep and he has put on some very useful runs without having that x factor we seem to expect from our backs.

He does need to step up in the impact area if hes to be selected more often and hes in this side primarily again through injury (to C Smith).

He has had his opportunities, and he'll get more. He really needs to make the most of them if he wants to be taken seriously.

Taylorman wrote:I'm in the little guarded about Ben Smith camp too in that he falls into the very useful category we are so used to having, jack of all trades master of none.

But in saying that I have been watching him a lot closer now hes on the doorstep and he has put on some very useful runs without having that x factor we seem to expect from our backs.

He does need to step up in the impact area if hes to be selected more often and hes in this side primarily again through injury (to C Smith).

He has had his opportunities, and he'll get more. He really needs to make the most of them if he wants to be taken seriously.

Are you in the Andre Taylor camp T-Man?
If B Smith dont deliver I'm quite willing to join the A Taylor bandwagon in 2013!

As always a strong team with no glaring weaknesses, it will be interesting to see Nonu and Williams as a midfield, they have never played together have they?

Biltong wrote:As always a strong team with no glaring weaknesses, it will be interesting to see Nonu and Williams as a midfield, they have never played together have they?

Twice as starters.
Twickenham 2009
RWC vs Tonga

Cheers gunner, wasn't sure about that.

Problem for the All Blacks is lack of depth at the moment,a strange comment you think?They currently have available one Lock with many caps aside fromWhitelock.Jason Eaton,one propWyatt Crockett,one other HookerCorey Flynn.One established cover for 6,7,8 Thomson,Vito and Messam has been in and out.No cover at 12 or13,or on the wings,no established 7 cover,no 9 with regular starting experience.No established 10 even Crudon has only a handful of tests.YES the NZ depth is legend there are players in every position who given a chance MAY step up.BUT really a 4Ns isn`t the place to do it as 2009 proved injuries to the established players and cover is very thin.Remember you are AllBlacks you never lose the public won`t tolerate it,or versus a NH side never let you for get it.

Compared to oz and SA who have far less depth than we do I think were ok. To get depth you have to play players. And that's what hansens doing isn't he? We have far more depth at 10 than we have for the whole of carters career in cruden and barrett. Frankly, id have cruden starting in that backline. Much better options on attack.

Taylorman, I think we have more depth in our forwards than NZ has, NZ has more depth in back line.

Taylorman wrote:Compared to oz and SA who have far less depth than we do I think were ok. To get depth you have to play players. And that's what hansens doing isn't he? We have far more depth at 10 than we have for the whole of carters career in cruden and barrett. Frankly, id have cruden starting in that backline. Much better options on attack.

Yes, your depth is still by far the best of the countries. Even though it does seem a bit weaker now than previous. But still you can probably pick 2 teams that would both be able to content for 4N title. AB are still the firm favourites.

Not many tried and tested options at 9 but the depth looks good. TJ and TK seem capable of the step up. 10 looks as good as it's done for some time. Centre looks the weakest in terms of depth. For me it's in the forwards we could do with a few more options. A player who can play both sides of the scrum (we seem very thin in stocks here), a lock, and a backrow player that inspires confidence. I'd like to see Hoeata tour in the autumn and to give him a crack at blindside.

There's definitely a few gaps to plug but the starting team looks pretty good. Obviously we need to manage those players well but Hansen needs to think of injury cover and also have an eye for the future. It's a difficult juggling act but he seemed to balance it well in the Ireland series.

Gunner, I suppose we have been blessed for so long with players who fit the utility back bench role that add a bit of punch to the team in the last few minutes. SBW, Kahui et al come on and the opposition think hey that's not fair. They take one guy off and replace him with that. Ben Smith plugs the holes but doesn't have that gamebreaker role. Toeava used to be a favourite for the bench and I think if he got regular game time he could've been useful. Ben Smith may well be a player who looks better the more time he gets. But I'd prefer to see a player like Savea in that impact role than someone solid in a few positions.

I guess my problem

Is Romano an option at six?
He certainly carries the ball like one and has the physical attributes of size and height. Is he just not fast enough?

He's a big unit. I think he'd find it tough back there. Hoeata is shorter but zippier. But we definitely need a player who can add punch to the defence (not literally) and carry the ball up effectively. Thomson has a lot of gifts but sadly physical presence is not one of them which helps explain his shabby treatment. You have to look at the balance of the backrow and Read, McCaw and Thomson don't work well as a unit. Kaino was a hard man who learnt the art of taking the ball to the line and gaining yards. Thomson has speed, good height as a lineout option, good distribution skills but always seems to get beaten up in his matches rather than physically imposing himself on the opposition. Messam is there because he was effective in that third test hitting Irish players out of the ruck and looked strong with ball in hand.

I was watching Hoeata play a 4 plays 6 game in the recent shield game against Wanganui, obviuosly he looked good, but theres a big difference between playing for Taranaki and the All blacks.

To name three options who could have midfield,Kahui,Toeva,and Slade they are all permanent sick notes.Dan Carter is past it,McCaw in his last season,an ageing team nearly 13 in the squad 29 or more.Those are things i`ve read either in articles or comments on articles over the weekend in the NZ Press.
Dan Carter apart from the Chieftains semi has been getting better and better,and he does`nt often make many boners like Crudon sometimes does.
[First 20 minutes when Sharks were going well in the Final S15].Given modern sports medicine nearly all this squad will be there or there abouts come 2015.Mc Caw despite being targetted in the Semi was still immense even playing out of position.Its a pity a larger squad isn`t allowed as some of the hopefuls could have had game time versus Argentina.Of course injuries may change things any way Romano would make a good 8 with Read reverting to 6 could be an option.There are a lot of possibles at 10 BUT none with any experience. Take a worse case scenario both Crudon and Carter get crocked in the next two matchs who`s next up against the Boks

barrets shown enough at sxv and the short time on the field for the abs he's ready to back up at 10. Very mature for his experience and hasn't put a foot wrong all year.

Obviously needs experience but he has that look about him that gives you the feeling he'll cope.

Well Carter is a married man now so no wonder Cruden makes more boners.

Of all our up and comers I think TJ Perenara is the real standout in the same way as goosen is for SA.

The complete running nine he`ll turn heads next year.

When Conrad return it will be the first time an international team contain:

A.Smith
B.Smith
C.Smith

I know this happen a lot in Wales where everybody called Jones. So Imagine that! Smith v Jones all over the place.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Not many tried and tested options at 9 but the depth looks good. TJ and TK seem capable of the step up. 10 looks as good as it's done for some time. Centre looks the weakest in terms of depth. For me it's in the forwards we could do with a few more options. A player who can play both sides of the scrum (we seem very thin in stocks here), a lock, and a backrow player that inspires confidence. I'd like to see Hoeata tour in the autumn and to give him a crack at blindside.

There's definitely a few gaps to plug but the starting team looks pretty good. Obviously we need to manage those players well but Hansen needs to think of injury cover and also have an eye for the future. It's a difficult juggling act but he seemed to balance it well in the Ireland series.

Gunner, I suppose we have been blessed for so long with players who fit the utility back bench role that add a bit of punch to the team in the last few minutes. SBW, Kahui et al come on and the opposition think hey that's not fair. They take one guy off and replace him with that. Ben Smith plugs the holes but doesn't have that gamebreaker role. Toeava used to be a favourite for the bench and I think if he got regular game time he could've been useful. Ben Smith may well be a player who looks better the more time he gets. But I'd prefer to see a player like Savea in that impact role than someone solid in a few positions.

I guess my problem

So Kia NZ.

U want Savea to cover centre/wing/fullback?
He's only a kid!
Cut him some slack!

Hilarious. We've gone from a dearth at 9 to riches. Smith, TKB and TJP.

Experience and goalkicking are the only reason Weepu's there.

Gunner, of course I don't want Savea to cover all that. Just wing would be fine. But with the bench you have to have cover for prop, hooker, lock, backrow, halfback and flyhalf because they all have some specialist skill about them. I never understand why you can't have one player to cover the centres and then one of the back three. To me it's impossible to cover 11, 12,13,14 and 15 so why not choose a player who has impact rather than a safety plug type of player on the bench who can cover a few positions but won't have the opposition saying hey come on that's not fair bringing that big lug on.

DC they were long, lean years without a decent 9. Hopefullya few more kids grow up now and want to be like AS, TJ and TK.

Biltong wrote:Taylorman, I think we have more depth in our forwards than NZ has, NZ has more depth in back line.

Yep I'm not overly a good 'forwards knowledgeable' person and frankly some of the things that go on in the scrums and breakdowns quite honestly baffle me to the point that I just wade through them and comment little on them on these boards.

Lately I've heard Ben Franks been playng poorly and if I'd not been told that I wouldnt have had a clue.

Ben's always only been a nearly man. It's Owen's average form that is more worrying.

I think the thing about the backs subs is that they do not have to be straight swap. So if Dagg goes off, Jane moves to FB and Savea can come on. IF Conrad goes off (once he is fit to come on) then Cruden comes on at 10, Carter to 12 and Nonu to 13 etc. of course its not perfect but you can only have 3 back subs really.

Next year the prop situation will change with 2 specialists per team Wyatt Crockett being added to the roster.A couple of promising ones coming thru there
Ben Franks is a solid performer but better in his primary role than Afoa or Tialata[latterly].Owen on form is arguably the best open side now in the World,he is under 26 that is very young for a prop.Mature at 30 with average life till 37.Backs arn`t a problem Carter can cover and has 1o,12,15.and at a pinch 9,Cruden has the basics to cover all 3.Nonu 12,13,and wing.weepu 9,10,dagg can cover wing and so on.The main problem is Lock the 3 incumbents,Boric when fit,Ali Williams if the ops are successful will be back,clarke,Hoerta tho 6 may be an option here.The Boks are likely to take over as the leading SH side for a period,because they are further down the rebuilding road.Hansen has the problem of getting the young guns into the team without disruption losing matches isn`t an option.Also are you[THE NZ Media/fans] prepared to have another rotation policy as was used 2006-7.Where players got a cap,said thanks very much,then moved to the NH or cash.It`s a question of finding a happy medium,Blithe Spirit?Get him fit and Slade iis up there with Crudon,Kahui with Conrad Smith.Even Kaino could be back for 2015 he`s young enough,.
There are times when an embarassment of riches in positions helps no one.Those old enough to recall period 1959-66.when ross Brown,Adrian Clarke,Neil Wolfe,Steve Nesbit,Mac Herewini,Bruce Watt,Earl Kirton,the ill fated Nikki Allen.All had a handful of starts but none really established them selves fully.
Earl Kirton latterly maybe.Sam Cane seems flavour of the month but isn`t a regular starter with the Chiefs.Matt Todd of the understudies seldom has a bad match and is a McCaw clone no bad thing.

anotherworldofpain wrote:When Conrad return it will be the first time an international team contain:

A.Smith
B.Smith
C.Smith

I know this happen a lot in Wales where everybody called Jones. So Imagine that! Smith v Jones all over the place.

And in the forwards you could even have a locksmith.




sorry.