ETHNIC RIVALRY GOOD FOR BOXING!!!!!!!!

Fights with an ethnic theme always make the best fights. Passions are raised when someone from a particular background squares off against his opponent with all their family and people supporting them. New York back in the 20's is a perfect example. Fans would come out in their droves to watch their particular neighbourhood hero fight. The various ethnic background in New York produced some cracking fighters. You had a boom in talent with great Irish, Italian, Jewish, and Latin American fighters all emerging at the same time. Black American fighters were being produced but the colour line hindered their progress.

Nowadays we have lost this important aspect in boxing as we clamour behind national pride and political correctness. We should sell the Manny/Floyd fight on racial terms I believe this fight will happen. Not all of America is behind Floyd and in fact many support Manny, but if the fight was directed towards the ethnic background of each fighter then it will be too big to resist.

ONETWO, you mean ' nationalistic ' terms, don't you ?

I'm sure you're not advocating something like Johnson v Jeffries, right ?

No ethnic terms but in a positive way the way it used to be.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:No ethnic terms but in a positive way the way it used to be.

Then we'll need to tread very carefully, mate. It's easy for these things to be misconstrued and misunderstood, and it would be a shame to see the lid blow off.

Manny v Floyd gets heated enough, already. Let's see how it plays out.

Holmes vs Cooney was a race based fight. Heavens, Cooney got parity with Holmes. America wanted a great white hope. Much respect to Morrison for shooting that cr@p down and not playing that game.

There was no problems when Holmes met Cooney. Yeah there was tension but it added to the excitment of the fight.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Fights with an ethnic theme always make the best fights. Passions are raised when someone from a particular background squares off against his opponent with all their family and people supporting them. New York back in the 20's is a perfect example. Fans would come out in their droves to watch their particular neighbourhood hero fight. The various ethnic background in New York produced some cracking fighters. You had a boom in talent with great Irish, Italian, Jewish, and Latin American fighters all emerging at the same time. Black American fighters were being produced but the colour line hindered their progress.

Nowadays we have lost this important aspect in boxing as we clamour behind national pride and political correctness. We should sell the Manny/Floyd fight on racial terms I believe this fight will happen. Not all of America is behind Floyd and in fact many support Manny, but if the fight was directed towards the ethnic background of each fighter then it will be too big to resist.

If the manny/floyd fight were sold on race terms I for one would not watch it. And I would be embarassed as a human being if any promoter insinuated that and people went for it.

Personally I think national pride within sport is more important than the ethnic equivalent. Ethnic rivalry is too much of a hark back to grim times.

Ok my point is that you need an angle in boxing because it is not a house hold type sport like football, baseball, basketball where a whole family supports a particular team. Not many people follow boxing but it is still important to sell fights to non boxing fans. Nothing grabs peoples attention like ethnic tension or rivalry providing its done in the right way.

BALTIMORA wrote:Personally I think national pride within sport is more important than the ethnic equivalent. Ethnic rivalry is too much of a hark back to grim times.

Nowadays boxing in the UK has broken the race nonsense. Imagine a fight between Benn and Calzaghe. I believe most of the crown would be supporting Benn.

But I reckon there is an element of anti Pakistani/Islam in some of the vitriol I have read about Khan. The fact that he wears the Pakistani colours irks some people who often forget that many boxers wear the colours of their parent's country. Honeyghan wore black, yellow and green to identify with Jamaica and waved the Jamaican flag whenever he fought.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Ok my point is that you need an angle in boxing because it is not a house hold type sport like football, baseball, basketball where a whole family supports a particular team. Not many people follow boxing but it is still important to sell fights to non boxing fans. Nothing grabs peoples attention like ethnic tension or rivalry providing its done in the right way.

How can it be done the right way? In anyway it is done you will encourage the more distasteful element of society. Look at Minter vs Hagler.

How can it be done the right way? In anyway it is done you will encourage the more distasteful element of society. Look at Minter vs Hagler.

No you can do it right by going back to the days when fighters were heros of their community.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:How can it be done the right way? In anyway it is done you will encourage the more distasteful element of society. Look at Minter vs Hagler.

No you can do it right by going back to the days when fighters were heros of their community.

When such "communities" were in existance we had Jim Crow laws in USA. No thank you but I'll pass on that.

I'm from Glasgow a city which is blighted by religious bigotry. Ethnic rivalry isn't good for sport it has blighted Glasgow for more than 100 years.

Hopkins already played the race card with Pacquiao, saying he never fought a "Slick African American" but come May 7th he will have added that to his resume.

There have always been great nationalistic/ethic rivalries, e.i Mexican vs Puerto Rico. Pacquiao is known as the Mexicutioner for his the defeats he has handed great Mexican boxers.

D4thincarnation wrote:Hopkins already played the race card with Pacquiao, saying he never fought a "Slick African American" but come May 7th he will have added that to his resume.

There have always been great nationalistic/ethic rivalries, e.i Mexican vs Puerto Rico. Pacquiao is known as the Mexicutioner for his the defeats he has handed great Mexican boxers.

Roger Mayweather was called the mexican assasin. It is nationalistic rivalry between Mexico and PR. Nothing to do with race.

What do you mean the way it used to be...

What when blacks were being lynched after the Burns/Jeffries fights....

Mate bringing in ethnicity isn't a positive thing...Usually means trouble...riots...dissatisfaction.....don't like it...

Being proud of one's race though is commendable.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What do you mean the way it used to be...

What when blacks were being lynched after the Burns/Jeffries fights....

Mate bringing in ethnicity isn't a positive thing...Usually means trouble...riots...dissatisfaction.....don't like it...

Being proud of one's race though is commendable.

Yep. The human race.

I'm trying to imagine what Sir Sidney Roughdiamond wuld make of this.

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Hopkins already played the race card with Pacquiao, saying he never fought a "Slick African American" but come May 7th he will have added that to his resume.

There have always been great nationalistic/ethic rivalries, e.i Mexican vs Puerto Rico. Pacquiao is known as the Mexicutioner for his the defeats he has handed great Mexican boxers.

Roger Mayweather was called the mexican assasin. It is nationalistic rivalry between Mexico and PR. Nothing to do with race.

Ethnicity is not race, it is cultural.

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Hopkins already played the race card with Pacquiao, saying he never fought a "Slick African American" but come May 7th he will have added that to his resume.

There have always been great nationalistic/ethic rivalries, e.i Mexican vs Puerto Rico. Pacquiao is known as the Mexicutioner for his the defeats he has handed great Mexican boxers.

Roger Mayweather was called the mexican assasin. It is nationalistic rivalry between Mexico and PR. Nothing to do with race.

Ethnicity is not race, it is cultural.

Hair splitting. When most people hear "ethnic" the assumption is race.

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Hopkins already played the race card with Pacquiao, saying he never fought a "Slick African American" but come May 7th he will have added that to his resume.

There have always been great nationalistic/ethic rivalries, e.i Mexican vs Puerto Rico. Pacquiao is known as the Mexicutioner for his the defeats he has handed great Mexican boxers.

Roger Mayweather was called the mexican assasin. It is nationalistic rivalry between Mexico and PR. Nothing to do with race.

Ethnicity is not race, it is cultural.

Hair splitting. When most people hear "ethnic" the assumption is race.

Most people get things wrong then.

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Hopkins already played the race card with Pacquiao, saying he never fought a "Slick African American" but come May 7th he will have added that to his resume.

There have always been great nationalistic/ethic rivalries, e.i Mexican vs Puerto Rico. Pacquiao is known as the Mexicutioner for his the defeats he has handed great Mexican boxers.

Roger Mayweather was called the mexican assasin. It is nationalistic rivalry between Mexico and PR. Nothing to do with race.

Ethnicity is not race, it is cultural.

Hair splitting. When most people hear "ethnic" the assumption is race.

Most people get things wrong then.

That may well be the case D4.

Thank you for educating them D4 ethnicity does not mean race.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Thank you for educating them D4 ethnicity does not mean race.

When someone sees Chris Blackwell, do they see an ethnic minority?

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Thank you for educating them D4 ethnicity does not mean race.

You seemed to have been confused yourself, when you wrote the article :

" Nowadays we have lost this important aspect in boxing as we clamour behind national pride and political correctness. We should sell the Manny/Floyd fight on racial terms I believe this fight will happen. Not all of America is behind Floyd and in fact many support Manny, but if the fight was directed towards the ethnic background of each fighter then it will be too big to resist."

Wouldn't you say ?

HumanWindmill wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Thank you for educating them D4 ethnicity does not mean race.

You seemed to have been confused yourself, when you wrote the article :

" Nowadays we have lost this important aspect in boxing as we clamour behind national pride and political correctness. We should sell the Manny/Floyd fight on racial terms I believe this fight will happen. Not all of America is behind Floyd and in fact many support Manny, but if the fight was directed towards the ethnic background of each fighter then it will be too big to resist."

Wouldn't you say ?

Ha. That's a KO blow if ever I saw one. Almost Rocky-esque.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Thank you for educating them D4 ethnicity does not mean race.

You seemed to have been confused yourself, when you wrote the article :

" Nowadays we have lost this important aspect in boxing as we clamour behind national pride and political correctness. We should sell the Manny/Floyd fight on racial terms I believe this fight will happen. Not all of America is behind Floyd and in fact many support Manny, but if the fight was directed towards the ethnic background of each fighter then it will be too big to resist."

Wouldn't you say ?

Ha. That's a KO blow if ever I saw one. Almost Rocky-esque.

Suzie - Q or the old one two ?

I feel a limerick coming on.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Thank you for educating them D4 ethnicity does not mean race.

You seemed to have been confused yourself, when you wrote the article :

" Nowadays we have lost this important aspect in boxing as we clamour behind national pride and political correctness. We should sell the Manny/Floyd fight on racial terms I believe this fight will happen. Not all of America is behind Floyd and in fact many support Manny, but if the fight was directed towards the ethnic background of each fighter then it will be too big to resist."

Wouldn't you say ?

Ha. That's a KO blow if ever I saw one. Almost Rocky-esque.

Suzie - Q or the old one two ?

I feel a limerick coming on.

Oh no.
:run2:

ethnicity has everything to do with race....Of course it has!!

ethnicity embraces both race and culture.....

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:There was no problems when Holmes met Cooney. Yeah there was tension but it added to the excitment of the fight.

So you think that kind of stuff brings people together?

There is still this sort of thing. Yuri Foreman and Dimitri Salita both fight out of New York, doubt that's a coincidence, and make the star prominant on clothing etc. A lot of the Mexican's fight out of California to tap that market. Of course they play to it, in the same way UK boxers attach to a football team.

Some tried to make the Khan Salita fight some sort of Islam vs Jew thing. Disgraceful.

HumanWindmill wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Thank you for educating them D4 ethnicity does not mean race.

You seemed to have been confused yourself, when you wrote the article :

" Nowadays we have lost this important aspect in boxing as we clamour behind national pride and political correctness. We should sell the Manny/Floyd fight on racial terms I believe this fight will happen. Not all of America is behind Floyd and in fact many support Manny, but if the fight was directed towards the ethnic background of each fighter then it will be too big to resist."

Wouldn't you say ?

Pacquiao vs Mayweather does not divide the boxing public by National identity, many more American support Pacquiao over Mayweather. Mayweather has gone public with this calling for Americans to support him purely because he is American. But Mayweather still get a lot of support from "Black Americans" though many have spoke out about him as well.

Personally I feel this fight does not need to be promoted along these lines.

But many of the Puerto Rico vs Mexican fights and others have been promoted along these lines and have benefited from it.

azania wrote:Some tried to make the Khan Salita fight some sort of Islam vs Jew thing. Disgraceful.

I remember seeing the poster that billed the fight as a "Holy War" and the caption line was, "Sometimes Faith is not enough"

But I think it was just mocked up by some nobody and not by any official promoting team.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/images/khansalita.jpg

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Thank you for educating them D4 ethnicity does not mean race.

You seemed to have been confused yourself, when you wrote the article :

" Nowadays we have lost this important aspect in boxing as we clamour behind national pride and political correctness. We should sell the Manny/Floyd fight on racial terms I believe this fight will happen. Not all of America is behind Floyd and in fact many support Manny, but if the fight was directed towards the ethnic background of each fighter then it will be too big to resist."

Wouldn't you say ?

Pacquiao vs Mayweather does not divide the boxing public by National identity, many more American support Pacquiao over Mayweather. Mayweather has gone public with this calling for Americans to support him purely because he is American. But Mayweather still get a lot of support from "Black Americans" though many have spoke out about him as well.

Personally I feel this fight does not need to be promoted along these lines.

But many of the Puerto Rico vs Mexican fights and others have been promoted along these lines and have benefited from it.

Certainly understand your perspective, D4, though I'm not entirely sure why you write this in response to my point, which was written merely to underline the fact that the original article was ambiguous as to race and ethnicity.

Personally, I'm not comfortable with the subject matter, so would prefer to stay out of it.

Seems like a very primitive way to promote a fight. The world has changed, and anyway Rocky IV was Poopie.

Seeing Khan v Salita attempted to be made into a 'Holy War' , was embarrassing, even insulting. The days of Alan Minter are long gone.

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Thank you for educating them D4 ethnicity does not mean race.

You seemed to have been confused yourself, when you wrote the article :

" Nowadays we have lost this important aspect in boxing as we clamour behind national pride and political correctness. We should sell the Manny/Floyd fight on racial terms I believe this fight will happen. Not all of America is behind Floyd and in fact many support Manny, but if the fight was directed towards the ethnic background of each fighter then it will be too big to resist."

Wouldn't you say ?

Pacquiao vs Mayweather does not divide the boxing public by National identity, many more American support Pacquiao over Mayweather. Mayweather has gone public with this calling for Americans to support him purely because he is American. But Mayweather still get a lot of support from "Black Americans" though many have spoke out about him as well.

Personally I feel this fight does not need to be promoted along these lines.

But many of the Puerto Rico vs Mexican fights and others have been promoted along these lines and have benefited from it.

Certainly understand your perspective, D4, though I'm not entirely sure why you write this in response to my point, which was written merely to underline the fact that the original article was ambiguous as to race and ethnicity.

Personally, I'm not comfortable with the subject matter, so would prefer to stay out of it.

Yeah mostly directed to onetwo's quote you used.

Watch how they promoted Cotto vs Margarito, they will mention the culture of the people, how all Mexican fighters are this and All Puerto fighters are that, and mention fight of old Puerto Rican vs Mexican fights. The will show fan and supporters from each community, talking about there pride and what makes an Mexican fighter, and what makes an Puerto Rican fight.

And all this will sell well especially to the communities involved.

Is it right or wrong?

It doesn't matter the promoter is looking to sell the fight and in certain circumstances promoting along these lines will do just that.

It is a rather cheap and base way to sell a fight really - but it does sell.

I'd just reiterate at this point - please be careful to keep your posts above decent standards of taste. I've no issues thus far, by the way.

Its mainly more nationalism. You have black PR who fight under the flag with pride. Mexicans are not an ethnic group and neither are PRicans.

The lines between race and ethnicity are often blurred and more often deliberately so by people with another agenda.

oxring wrote:It is a rather cheap and base way to sell a fight really - but it does sell.

I'd just reiterate at this point - please be careful to keep your posts above decent standards of taste. I've no issues thus far, by the way.

If anyone panders to base instinct it creates controversy. Controversy sells. I agree with you and also watching this thread very carefully.

If a fight was sold on race vs race it is very poor and would be a sad day for boxing. Selling a fight on a nationality vs nationality basis is fine their is nothing wrong with patriotism.

prettyboy1304 wrote:If a fight was sold on race vs race it is very poor and would be a sad day for boxing. Selling a fight on a nationality vs nationality basis is fine their is nothing wrong with patriotism.

Its just not for me at all.

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:If a fight was sold on race vs race it is very poor and would be a sad day for boxing. Selling a fight on a nationality vs nationality basis is fine their is nothing wrong with patriotism.

Its just not for me at all.

Mate I've already said above I'm from Glasgow and religious and ethnic bigotry and rivalry haven't been good for sport in Glasgow and has at times spread to other sports not just football.

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:If a fight was sold on race vs race it is very poor and would be a sad day for boxing. Selling a fight on a nationality vs nationality basis is fine their is nothing wrong with patriotism.

Its just not for me at all.

Mate I've already said above I'm from Glasgow and religious and ethnic bigotry and rivalry haven't been good for sport in Glasgow and has at times spread to other sports not just football.

Crazy stuff indeed.

Scott has made a great point bringing up Salita and Yuri. They have great support from their people in New York especially. It harkens back to the good old days when fighters from many ethnic backgrounds competed so hard aginst each other.

Like I said if it was nationality I wouldn't have a problem If it was a Scottish fighter vs an English fighter you wouldn't beable to resist. Unless it was Junior Witter then everyone would want him to get KOd

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Scott has made a great point bringing up Salita and Yuri. They have great support from their people in New York especially. It harkens back to the good old days when fighters from many ethnic backgrounds competed so hard aginst each other.

How would you therefore sell a fight between 2 new yorkers of differing ethnicities?

Boxing has always been a racial platform. Look back at the history of boxing you will see how race has played such a big role on many occasions.

when Jack Johnson won the heavyweight title did not white America look high and low for a "great white hope"?

when Joe Louis fought Max Schmelling was not Louis branded the great black American hero facing the face of white supremacy in Europe?

Race is part and parcel of boxing.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Boxing has always been a racial platform. Look back at the history of boxing you will see how race has played such a big role on many occasions.

when Jack Johnson won the heavyweight title did not white America look high and low for a "great white hope"?

when Joe Louis fought Max Schmelling was not Louis branded the great black American hero facing the face of white supremacy in Europe?

Race is part and parcel of boxing.

Are you saying they were right? Jeffries was never comfy with the great white hope stuff and Schmelling was never comfy with being linked to Hitler. These were wrong and society should have moved on fromthis sort of thing let alone boxing. If you need to use race to sell a fight then it is not worth putting that fight on.