ETHNIC RIVALRY GOOD FOR BOXING!!!!!!!!

First topic message reminder :

Fights with an ethnic theme always make the best fights. Passions are raised when someone from a particular background squares off against his opponent with all their family and people supporting them. New York back in the 20's is a perfect example. Fans would come out in their droves to watch their particular neighbourhood hero fight. The various ethnic background in New York produced some cracking fighters. You had a boom in talent with great Irish, Italian, Jewish, and Latin American fighters all emerging at the same time. Black American fighters were being produced but the colour line hindered their progress.

Nowadays we have lost this important aspect in boxing as we clamour behind national pride and political correctness. We should sell the Manny/Floyd fight on racial terms I believe this fight will happen. Not all of America is behind Floyd and in fact many support Manny, but if the fight was directed towards the ethnic background of each fighter then it will be too big to resist.

How would you therefore sell a fight between 2 new yorkers of differing ethnicities?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Easy mate its been done countless times before. As I said before New York was the greatest example of ethnic pride in boxing. Great names like Benny Leonard, Max Baer, etc

But it's basically only a gnat's chuff away from inciting racial violence, is it not..?

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Boxing has always been a racial platform. Look back at the history of boxing you will see how race has played such a big role on many occasions.

when Jack Johnson won the heavyweight title did not white America look high and low for a "great white hope"?

when Joe Louis fought Max Schmelling was not Louis branded the great black American hero facing the face of white supremacy in Europe?

Race is part and parcel of boxing.

Are you being serious here or being a wum. Either way its not funny or intelligent.

America was akin to S.Africa when Johnson won the title. Europe was racist and that was the norm.

People have moved on, with a few exceptions.

I'm watching this thread closely.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:How would you therefore sell a fight between 2 new yorkers of differing ethnicities?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Easy mate its been done countless times before. As I said before New York was the greatest example of ethnic pride in boxing. Great names like Benny Leonard, Max Baer, etc

How would you sell a fight between a black new yorker and a white new yorker?

prettyboy1304 wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Boxing has always been a racial platform. Look back at the history of boxing you will see how race has played such a big role on many occasions.

when Jack Johnson won the heavyweight title did not white America look high and low for a "great white hope"?

when Joe Louis fought Max Schmelling was not Louis branded the great black American hero facing the face of white supremacy in Europe?

Race is part and parcel of boxing.

Are you saying they were right? Jeffries was never comfy with the great white hope stuff and Schmelling was never comfy with being linked to Hitler. These were wrong and society should have moved on fromthis sort of thing let alone boxing. If you need to use race to sell a fight then it is not worth putting that fight on.

Post of the day by a long shot.

ONETWO answer the questions we asked you mate you were borderline saying that racism was OK.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:There was no problems when Holmes met Cooney. Yeah there was tension but it added to the excitment of the fight.

Think since Larry and his family received death threats and hate mail through the post in the run up to the fight he may well disagree that promoting the fight along racial lines was "no problem"

I dont see the problem with ethnic pride. I love it that Calzaghe called himself the pride of Wales, or Peter Manfredo going by the title "pride of providence"
whats so bad about having pride in your ethnic background? None has a problem with "Irish Mickey Ward" or the Philipino flash do they?

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:I dont see the problem with ethnic pride. I love it that Calzaghe called himself the pride of Wales, or Peter Manfredo going by the title "pride of providence"
whats so bad about having pride in your ethnic background? None has a problem with "Irish Mickey Ward" or the Philipino flash do they?

Given your OP I seriously think you are either confused as to what you are talking about or are squirming.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:I dont see the problem with ethnic pride. I love it that Calzaghe called himself the pride of Wales, or Peter Manfredo going by the title "pride of providence"
whats so bad about having pride in your ethnic background? None has a problem with "Irish Mickey Ward" or the Philipino flash do they?

That's fine mate their is nothing wrong with patriotism you seemed to be justifying the stuff Johnson had to endure all that great white hope stuff just to sell some tickets. Or what Scmelling had to endure being hated in America because of Hitler and the Nazis which he never agreed with and tried to distance himself from.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:I dont see the problem with ethnic pride. I love it that Calzaghe called himself the pride of Wales, or Peter Manfredo going by the title "pride of providence"
whats so bad about having pride in your ethnic background? None has a problem with "Irish Mickey Ward" or the Philipino flash do they?

There's a difference between what's generally regarded as 'ethnic pride' and nationalist pride. What you're talking about is national or regional pride. It has little to do with what the public and the media would call ethnicity. If you're asking if people should support their 'local' boxer, then sure, why not? If you're suggesting that race should be a deciding factor in whether or not an individual lends a boxer (or anyone) their support, then I'm afraid your opinion is wildly misguided, and pitifully archaic. If it IS the latter, I'd go so far as to suggest you're on the wrong forum.

You guys have got the wrong end of the shoe here, I am talking about the pride in different ethnic communities that has had such a great impact on boxing.

I will give you an example. Boxing used to produce a great number of fighters from Irish, Italian, and Jewish backgrounds. These fighters were loved and are remembered still today. They fought to a championship level and are among the ATG's. These fighters were either Irish, Italian, or Jewish first but proud to be American. No suprise that this was the golden age of boxing.

Today the make up of boxing has changed to either latin American or black American with eastern Europe on the rise also.

ONETWO that's not what I'm asking you. You seemed to be saying that promting a fight as black vs white was fine and justifying times this sort of thing has happened in the past.

Latin Americans and African Americans have been part of boxing since it started.

Baltimora, you don't think Salita and Foreman try for the Jewish fanbase?

(Off topic: Morales vs Maidana weigh in http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=6307905)
Morales 140lbs vs Maidana 140lbs.

Scottrf wrote:Baltimora, you don't think Salita and Foreman try for the Jewish fanbase?

Sure they do, but not at the expense of a wider audience. What the OP appeared to be implying was that the days of 'the great white hope' were something other than institutionally encouraged racism.

That's fine mate their is nothing wrong with patriotism you seemed to be justifying the stuff Johnson had to endure all that great white hope stuff just to sell some tickets
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally going by the charactor of Johnson he most prob revelled in the whole "great white hope" saga You have to admit it sold tickets and we are still talking about it today. it coined a well known phrase and was a magor part of boxing history.

I'm really not sure Johnson did like it mate, and that doesn't show a great knowledge of his life story.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:That's fine mate their is nothing wrong with patriotism you seemed to be justifying the stuff Johnson had to endure all that great white hope stuff just to sell some tickets
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally going by the charactor of Johnson he most prob revelled in the whole "great white hope" saga You have to admit it sold tickets and we are still talking about it today. it coined a well known phrase and was a magor part of boxing history.

It sold tickets to white peolpe wanting to see a black man get knocked out. People still talk about Hitler and the Nazis to this day but it doesn't make it right.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:That's fine mate their is nothing wrong with patriotism you seemed to be justifying the stuff Johnson had to endure all that great white hope stuff just to sell some tickets
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally going by the charactor of Johnson he most prob revelled in the whole "great white hope" saga You have to admit it sold tickets and we are still talking about it today. it coined a well known phrase and was a magor part of boxing history.

Many people died also because of the colour of their skin as a result of that fight. The phrase itself was coined by Jack London who was an overt racist.

Scottrf wrote:I'm really not sure Johnson did like it mate, and that doesn't show a great knowledge of his life story.

He didn't. This thread seems to be in poor taste.

I really dont see the point of this thread. I'll lock it for now. If anyone wants it re-opened, just PM me.