Xavi or Scholes?

First topic message reminder :

Simple question: Who is the better midfield controller and passer: Paul Scholes or Xavi? (Seeing as this was a debate waiting to happen on another Euro topic).

I'd have to say Scholes (I'm a little bit biased in favour of him) because his long passing is excellent. Maybe Xavi can pass it long but he rarely does that.

After that magical display by Pirlo, maybe he is the one to compare with Xavi.

Successful passes in yesterday's match:
Pirlo = 131
Gerrard & Parker (combined) = 67

Not just this match, Pirlo has done this for years for Italy, Milan, and more recently for Juv.

Leff wrote:After that magical display by Pirlo, maybe he is the one to compare with Xavi.

Successful passes in yesterday's match:
Pirlo = 131
Gerrard & Parker (combined) = 67

Not just this match, Pirlo has done this for years for Italy, Milan, and more recently for Juv.

Was thinking it last night too, remember when he moved from Inter to Milan and couldnt understand why they brought him in but he just seems to get better he was magic against England

Marty, For me, Pirlo's performance was the most mesmerising display thus far in this Euro. Football at its best, not talking about the entire match, just Pirlo's work in the midfield, how he toyed with and overloaded Gerrard and Parker, that's what football is meant to be.

pirlo is class

Oh TSC.

Who are you going to compare next?

Welbeck or Neymar?

Wow man, please stay off the coffee, Scholes wouldn't keep up with Xavi in a training session.

Pirlo is a great player but he had more time than Charles Bronson.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Oh TSC.

Who are you going to compare next?

Welbeck or Neymar?

Wow man, please stay off the coffee, Scholes wouldn't keep up with Xavi in a training session.

Funny how Xavi Messi and Iniesta all look up to Scholes and if you think he isnt in Xavis league goes to show what you know

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Oh TSC.

Who are you going to compare next?

Welbeck or Neymar?

Wow man, please stay off the coffee, Scholes wouldn't keep up with Xavi in a training session.

Theres a turn up for the books, Josiah Maiestas dumping on a United player.

Ive yet to see a non-ManU fan elevate Scholes status to the like of Xavi (world cup and euros winner, destroyer of ManU on 2 occasions). Its another myth in the ManU camp that Scholes is as good as the most decorated player in the game. I could understand comparing the Busby team to a player like Xavi because they were taken away from you early, Scholes has played for 20 years and hasn't done anything like Xavi.

I have no particular dislike of Man United - and I've got to agree with Josie. I've never heard a non Man-U fan revere Scholes to the heights of Xavi.
Xavi's done it everywhere he's been asked to do it. Champions League Finals, Euros Finals, World Cup Finals. He's done it everywhere!

Demon I have to disagree Ive heard many players who have played with and against him have said theyre the best theyve seen including Henry who played with Xavi and most England managers too. Its only in the last 3/4 years that Xavis gained the recognition he deserves.

And can I remind you of this article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1113507/The-best-players-world-Xavi--Ronaldo-crowned-king-football.html

Electric Demon wrote:I have no particular dislike of Man United - and I've got to agree with Josie. I've never heard a non Man-U fan revere Scholes to the heights of Xavi.
Xavi's done it everywhere he's been asked to do it. Champions League Finals, Euros Finals, World Cup Finals. He's done it everywhere!

Thank you Demon. I have nothing against Scholes, but as a great footballer you have to go and dominate at International level.

Do you not consider Ronaldo and Messi great as they have done little at international level?

two_tone wrote:Do you not consider Ronaldo and Messi great as they have done little at international level?

Ronaldo has carried Portugal during these Euro's.

Johan Cruyff said that Xavi was the best player in the world and who am I to disagree? I think he will go down as one of the best mid fielders ever.

who are you to disagree?

well i suppose the fact that most other respected ex footballer's reakon messi is the best would be the first reason

Cruyff said Messi was the most exciting player but Xavi was the best.

Pele said an African nation would win the world cup by 2002. Doesn't mean they're right just because they were great Footballers.

IMO, Xavi is the best at what he does and Messi likewise.

Ok ta, what about the other 20,000 ex players in the world-messi has won the ballon d ior the last two years..


dont get me wrong I dont even care who is the supposed best but you dont just have to agree with everything cruyff says pal

I don't know everything he has said, but I do agree with him on this.

Messi for Argentina isnt the same player the likes of Xavi and Iniesta help him with their passing though he has a strike rate of a goal nearly every 3 games Scholes had a strike rate of better than 1 every 5 games and at France 98 was one of the best players for England when international football truly meant something

Stella wrote:Pele said an African nation would win the world cup by 2002. Doesn't mean they're right just because they were great Footballers.

IMO, Xavi is the best at what he does and Messi likewise.

You have to say, when it comes to two players who are so sensational at two completely different styles of play, you have to agree with Stella.

It's like comparing apples and eggs

Liverpool fan here:

Scholes was by some distance the best attacking midfielder in the premiership. His passing, vision and movement is something that I'm sure on a few occasions some of the best players in the world have commented on how good he is

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Zinedine-Zidane-has-admitted-not-playing-with-Paul-Scholes-is-one-of-the-biggest-regrets-of-his-career-article560373.html

I absolutely hate people who don't give certain players the credit they deserve just because of the team they play for. Its like saying Roy Keane wasn't that good, or that Beckham was a one-trick pony.

Grow up. Scholes was awesome. He still is in bursts. The reason other players you now rate as better than Scholes are the players they are is mainly down to the fact they like to model themselves on him.

Electric Demon wrote:

Stella wrote:Pele said an African nation would win the world cup by 2002. Doesn't mean they're right just because they were great Footballers.

IMO, Xavi is the best at what he does and Messi likewise.

You have to say, when it comes to two players who are so sensational at two completely different styles of play, you have to agree with Stella.

It's like comparing apples and eggs

Quite true.

It's reasonable to compare Messi and Ronaldo, as they largely play in a similar way (carrying the ball in from wide areas and aiming to create a shot or assist to the centre forward) - Ronaldo is more direct and is a better instinctive goal scorer (particularly with headers, obviously not Messi's greatest asset), while Messi is even better at carrying the ball through traffic (sometimes he is just mesmerising when the ball is at his feet) and at linking with his team mates.

I wouldn't even compare Xavi with Pirlo in style, as although both are primarily passers, Xavi is mainly a short passing 'continuity' player while Pirlo looks for longer, more incisive passes and so will inevitably miss his target a bit more often because of that. If you want to play pure pass and move possession football, you'd take Xavi (and Iniesta) ahead of almost anyone, but in other contexts you might choose others in preference.

Different players, different strengths and weaknesses. You build your side and tactics around these players assets, hence Spain play 'keep ball' better than anyone else, Italy look to release players into space from Pirlo's 40m passes and Portugal look to get the ball to Ronaldo's feet in positions where he can turn and run at defenders. Barca have the advantage that while they have the possession players, they also have Messi's ability to beat defenders 1-on-1 (or sometimes 3 or 4 on 1).

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Liverpool fan here:

Scholes was by some distance the best attacking midfielder in the premiership. His passing, vision and movement is something that I'm sure on a few occasions some of the best players in the world have commented on how good he is

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Zinedine-Zidane-has-admitted-not-playing-with-Paul-Scholes-is-one-of-the-biggest-regrets-of-his-career-article560373.html

I absolutely hate people who don't give certain players the credit they deserve just because of the team they play for. Its like saying Roy Keane wasn't that good, or that Beckham was a one-trick pony.

Grow up. Scholes was awesome. He still is in bursts. The reason other players you now rate as better than Scholes are the players they are is mainly down to the fact they like to model themselves on him.

To be fair though Im a Utd fan and always said Beckham was overhyped but what I love about Scholes is the way he controls the ball hes always taking a touch and keeping it close

http://therepublikofmancunia.com/quotes-about-paul-scholes/

Oh, and to swing my comments back to Scholes, I largely agree with Jab above - he has been one of the best ball-playing midfielders of the last 20 years, and in his early days also provided a goal threat that Xavi doesn't.

Having seen him live a few years ago (when well past his best), he still had great 'vision' on the field - that innate understanding of who the player in space was and of where and when to pass. Tevez had the same - it was as though they had a 'high camera' view down to the pitch, allowing them to sense where everyone was. I sometimes wonder if SAF regrets not being able to keep Tevez and to turn him into Scholes replacement as a ball-playing attacking midfielder.

Of course, Scholes biggest problem was that although he always tried to compete for the ball, he never learnt how to tackle without flying in from 10 yards away, so was always liable to give away free kicks and get booked. If you could combine his ball skills and Parker's ability to nick the ball away from opponents you'd have had one helluva player.

Anyone can look good in the premier league, even Titus Bramble holds down 30+ appearances every season, if Scholes was so good he would have gone and proven it in Italy or in Spain. Its frightening how idiotic some people are putting the premier league anywhere near serie a or la liga.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Liverpool fan here:

Scholes was by some distance the best attacking midfielder in the premiership. His passing, vision and movement is something that I'm sure on a few occasions some of the best players in the world have commented on how good he is

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Zinedine-Zidane-has-admitted-not-playing-with-Paul-Scholes-is-one-of-the-biggest-regrets-of-his-career-article560373.html

I absolutely hate people who don't give certain players the credit they deserve just because of the team they play for. Its like saying Roy Keane wasn't that good, or that Beckham was a one-trick pony.

Grow up. Scholes was awesome. He still is in bursts. The reason other players you now rate as better than Scholes are the players they are is mainly down to the fact they like to model themselves on him.

Nobody is really knocking Scholes as such but just merely pointing out that Xavi, in their opinion, is the better of the two which is the point of the thread is it not?

Xavi's individual honours:


FIFA Ballon d'Or Third place: 2010, 2011
Ballon d'Or Third place: 2009
FIFA World Player of the Year Third place: 2009
UEFA Best Player in Europe Award Second place: 2011
World Soccer Player of the Year: 2010
UEFA Champions League Midfielder of the Year: 2008–09
IFFHS World's Best Playmaker: 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
La Liga Breakthrough Player of the Year: 1999
La Liga Spanish Player of the Year: 2005
La Liga Midfielder of the Year: 2009, 2011
Trofeo Alfredo Di Stéfano Second place: 2010
UEFA Euro Player of the Tournament: 2008
UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament: 2008
FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 2010
FIFA/FIFPro World XI: 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
UEFA Team of the Year: 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
ESM Team of the Year: 2008–09, 2010–11
UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match: 2009
FIFA Club World Cup Bronze Ball: 2009
FIFA Club World Cup Silver Ball: 2011

Scholes' Individual honours:


Jimmy Murphy Young Player of the Year (1): 1992–93
Premier League Player of the Month (4): January 2003, December 2003, October 2006, August 2010
PFA Team of the Year (2): 2002–03, 2006–07
Premier League 10 Seasons Awards (1992–93 to 2001–02): Domestic & Overall Team of the Decade
English Football Hall of Fame Inductee: 2008

It's a bit of a mis-match when you look at it like that.

I love Scholes and in his prime was a great goal scoring midfielder but Xavi IMO is even better under pressure when he has the ball and just pips him.

Xavi dominates passing stats and creates assists in every stadium he plays at, we only see this sort of thing by Scholes in rainy Manchester. Scholes is probably the best English CM since Gascoigne, just doesnt show his skills as often as Xavi.

So the testaments of Zidane and Xavi - two of the best midfielders in the world mean nothing?

Sorry, but I'd take accolades from my peers over a corrupt governing bodies awards.

Plus, if you're daring to claim that the Premiership isn't the highest standard of football, its frightening how idiotic you're being. Barcelona and Real madrid are world-class teams, I'm not debating that. They wipe the floor with most/all of the current premiership teams but that doesn't make the whole league better. Same with Serie A. Just because the Milan teams and occasionally Juve do well in the Champions League, it doesn't make the entire league better.

I can't believe you're comparing Scholes to Titus Bramble. I'm a Liverpool fan and I think you're being stupid.

Scholes is technically sound JabMachine, for me he just never showed it often enough outside of England/Britain. Bramble would not play league football in the SPL nevermind the EPL.

http://therepublikofmancunia.com/quotes-about-paul-scholes/

Go to that link.

Then come back and tell me Scholes isn't on the same level as I think.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:http://therepublikofmancunia.com/quotes-about-paul-scholes/

Go to that link.

Then come back and tell me Scholes isn't on the same level as I think.

To be fair, some of those quotes are a bit over the top. Fellow players/managers do that at times. Matty Hayden once said about Sachin Tendulkar. "There is a God and he bats at four for India"
I was nearly sick when i read that bo..ocks!

Stella wrote:I love Scholes and in his prime was a great goal scoring midfielder but Xavi IMO is even better under pressure when he has the ball and just pips him.

Have to disagree think it was Chelsea or Arsenal last season he had 3 players around him and he danced around them and this was after he was meant to be past it

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Xavi dominates passing stats and creates assists in every stadium he plays at, we only see this sort of thing by Scholes in rainy Manchester. Scholes is probably the best English CM since Gascoigne, just doesnt show his skills as often as Xavi.

Pull up Scholes passing stats for last season alone and youll see how he dominates the stats he more often than not out passed everyone else on the pitch last season when he played

what skills does Xavi show? IMO Iniesta shows more skills than both and probably is somewhere between Xavi/Scholes and Messi in the way he plays

marty
Scholes does get a bit edgy when under pressure, well compared to Xavi anyhow. I've seen him get robbed a few times in the last few years.

Not saying he's not good but not as good as Xavi.

If Zinedine Zidane, Patrick Vieira, Edgar Davids, Cesc Fabregas, Xavi, Iniesta etc all say he's the BEST midfielder they've faced.....that means.....what? nothing?

The reason Scholes didn't get the accolades is because he didn't come from a team that almost revolutionised themselves within a couple of years like Barcelona did, Manchester United doesn't have the glitz and glamour that goes with Real Madrid or the star-status/interviews.

He was just a world class midfielder who did his job, kept his head down and didn't go looking for recognition for it.

Anyone who understands football will agree. People like who are posting here are clearly blinkered. This is coming from a Liverpool fan: he's 5x the player Gerrard is/was

JabMachineMK2 wrote:If Zinedine Zidane, Patrick Vieira, Edgar Davids, Cesc Fabregas, Xavi, Iniesta etc all say he's the BEST midfielder they've faced.....that means.....what? nothing?

The reason Scholes didn't get the accolades is because he didn't come from a team that almost revolutionised themselves within a couple of years like Barcelona did, Manchester United doesn't have the glitz and glamour that goes with Real Madrid or the star-status/interviews.

He was just a world class midfielder who did his job, kept his head down and didn't go looking for recognition for it.

Anyone who understands football will agree. People like who are posting here are clearly blinkered. This is coming from a Liverpool fan: he's 5x the player Gerrard is/was

5 x the player?

Jab you are getting a bit prickly over this mate. Have you trained with Scholes or something?

I'm sure if you did enough digging you could find equally as much praise handed to Xavi by fellow and ex pro's.

No, I just appreciate him as a player. I hate the bloke for being so good. I wish Gerrard was like him.

I dislike that he can be so easily dismissed by casual fans.

Xavi never gets himself sent off either, cool as a cucumber under pressure, for an English player Scholes is very good, if he was a Spanish player he wouldnt stand out as much.

Nobody is really dismissing him though Jab. Me, I think he's been an absolute gem for Utd and a credit to our league and it's criminal that he retired from the international scene so early.

I just love the way Xavi does his thing every week.

Scholes is a great player with a real footballing brain but to say he's 5 x better than Gerrard is nonsense.

Both are pretty equal IMO. Again though, they are different type of midfielders.

I don't think Scholes is being dismissed by anyone on here.
The question compares him with Xavi, who I think most agree is better.

Don't think it's by a humongous margin - but he is better.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Xavi never gets himself sent off either, cool as a cucumber under pressure, for an English player Scholes is very good, if he was a Spanish player he wouldnt stand out as much.

Funny that the Spaniards say if he was one of them hed get more recognition

I'm a United fan who has seen Scholes play several times in the flesh, so my comments may not be taken seriously.

But Scholes, for me, is the best player of this generation. I would take him over anyone, he has much more to his game than Xavi, or anyone else. If you look at pretty much every game United lost since January, Scholes was not involved.

otw,

Scholes over Zidane? Really?

no one is over zidane

I'd take Scholes over Zidane, yes. Zidane was a brilliant player though

Scholes over Zidane?

Words fail me.