Well done Scotland!

First topic message reminder :

Ok now all the should of, would of, could of is out the way, I'd just like to congratulate our Scottish friends on being the only NH team to come back from down south undefeated. OK so it wasn't a 3 test series but the win over Aus showed a very committed defence and to win in Samoa is not as easy as some may think.

Well done and good luck for the AI...

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:And a measured piece in the Herald:

Stairway to heaven?

by Stuart McAllister

IT was a tour that achieved everything that could have been expected of it: a clean sweep of wins and a redemption in the minds of the Scottish rugby-supporting public who had seen their team climb back from the depths of despair and at last show the fighting spirit they expect from the players.

And yet, as we packed suitcases and began the process of heading away from the Pacific Islands, that line from Milton about preferring to reign in hell than serve in heaven started bouncing around the brain and just would not go away. Perhaps after two remarkable weeks of tropical bliss, it really was a case of tropical Paradise Lost; but also it had been such a successful tour, simply because Scotland had found their level, and it is not among the sport's elite.

Accepted that knocking around the teams just outside the top eight in the world is not quite hell – it was more a case of big fish in a little pond rather than a little fish in a big pond – no matter how it is dressed up, Scotland's clean sweep was a minor triumph not a major breakthrough.

One reason for that is that any analysis of the tour has to take into account the nature of the opposition. This was not a full-on blast against a top-four side with all its top players giving their best. Yes, Australia were second in the world rankings, but Fiji were 16th at the time they faced Scotland and Samoa ninth.

You have also got to take into account that Australia were fitting Scotland in between a weekend of Super Rugby and their match against Wales a few days later. They had most of their big-name players who were not injured in the side but they also had five new caps and half the team changed when Wales came calling. On top of that, even Andy Robinson, Scotland's head coach, admitted that the weather played into Scotland's hands, though you would like to believe that they would have done well against that Australia selection even on a dry night.

Fiji are a team in transition. They felt they lost their rugby soul when all their best players left for Europe and started to bring that power-orientated game back to the Islands; now they are rediscovering the joys of doing it the Fiji way, improvised, gloriously uncertain and devastatingly unpredictable. They will get better, but remember Scotland went into that game with 408 caps spread across the team; Fiji had 115.

Finally, Samoa, the final Test and the biggest challenge in all senses of the phrase. It also produced Scotland's best win, but one achieved against the run of play. Scotland showed tremendous spirit in grabbing that last try, but the home side were within two minutes of holding out for a memorable win. It was taking cutting it fine to the highest level.

Suggesting that the results, fine though they were, fell short of evidence of a sudden transformation in Scotland's fortunes, is not a controversial statement. Robinson said much the same thing in his own way.

He does not do post-tour euphoria and, while his measured analysis after this one focused strongly on the spirit, the revival of key players such as Alasdair Strokosch and Euan Murray, the uncorking of young talent like Matt Scott – his contribution to the Samoa win was almost as crucial as Mike Blair's – and the rebuilding of the management team around him, he was also realistic about the problems and the challenges ahead.

New Zealand, he acknowledged, will be the acid test, when they arrive at Murrayfield as Scotland's next opponents. If Scotland handle the way they did in the second half in Fiji and for the first 70 minutes in Samoa, they will be taken apart; ditto, if they are as poor at protecting possession.

Restarts cost Scotland dear in the World Cup and are still a major issue to the extent that they turned down a kick at goal against Samoa that would have made it a three-point game simply because they had no faith in their own ability to catch the kick-off and mount another attack.

It's an issue that is driving Robinson to distraction, but the root is in a fundamental flaw among the players who struggle to catch the high ball under pressure. That's an issue for the club coaches more than the national team ones.

Of course, Scotland will continue to manage great one-off wins, but the evidence of this tour is that their natural level is still around the bottom end of the world's top 10, which may not be hell, but it is certainly not rugby heaven, either. They still have some way to go get there.

Wow.....how motivational is he?

Funny how everyone mentions the crap weather conditions in Australia contributed to their loss but fail to mention how bad (with regards to extreme heat) they were in Fiji and Samao which our guys are not used to playing in.

A good interview with Mighty Mouse in the Scotsman this morning where he states that the Scotland team of two years ago would have folded in the Fiji and Samao games whereas this team have shown better tactical play, fitness and determination.

Good times ahead me thinks.

Also, on another note where the future is concerned, sopme intersting stats from the JWC:

'- The top try-scorer at JWC 2012 was Scotland wing Jamie Farndale with six, braces in the last two matches lifting him to the top of charts. South Africa's Jan Serfontein and Milford Keresoma of New Zealand both scored tries in the final to finish with four tries. '

and....

'- Scotland were actually the top try scorers in the tournament with 21 after crossing the line five times in the ninth place play-off win over Samoa. New Zealand are next best with 20, followed by South Africa (19) and Wales (18). Only Italy (7), Samoa (8) and Argentina (9) failed to get into double figures.'

I think what that Herald article fails to point out is progress, and instead it focuses on being a blunt state of the nation piece. Sure, at the moment, on all evidence, we sit at the bottom rung of the 6 Nations, below the 4 big SH sides but above everyone else. But in the last few months, after hitting rock bottom at the end of the 6 Nations, we've seen Robinson open his eyes to the correct selection policy, two new and highly regarded coaches joining the fold and winning three games in tricky conditions against sides we were told we'd struggle to beat by most posters on here.

It's important we don't get carried away, and a reality check is always needed for sports fans getting a whiff of optimism, but we also shouldn't downplay this achievement. These were hard games and we won. Yes, we didn't put together a particularly convincing performance, but across the three games we saw great defence, good organisation and some good attacking play. I didn't see it, but apparently the Harley try was a training ground move and well constructed, and Visser's first try against Fiji was very nicely executed.

The must win games for me next year are Tonga, Italy and Ireland at home. If we want to take a step forward, we need to win those games.

I agree, beating the Bok's isn't likely but is still possible. I hate to say it about any team but beating NZ looks litteraly impossible. If their demolition of Ireland is anything to go by I will be happy to be within 14 points in the Autumn.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think what that Herald article fails to point out is progress, and instead it focuses on being a blunt state of the nation piece. Sure, at the moment, on all evidence, we sit at the bottom rung of the 6 Nations, below the 4 big SH sides but above everyone else. But in the last few months, after hitting rock bottom at the end of the 6 Nations, we've seen Robinson open his eyes to the correct selection policy, two new and highly regarded coaches joining the fold and winning three games in tricky conditions against sides we were told we'd struggle to beat by most posters on here.

It's important we don't get carried away, and a reality check is always needed for sports fans getting a whiff of optimism, but we also shouldn't downplay this achievement. These were hard games and we won. Yes, we didn't put together a particularly convincing performance, but across the three games we saw great defence, good organisation and some good attacking play. I didn't see it, but apparently the Harley try was a training ground move and well constructed, and Visser's first try against Fiji was very nicely executed.

The must win games for me next year are Tonga, Italy and Ireland at home. If we want to take a step forward, we need to win those games.

That is all true, fES, and I'd certainly much rather we are where we are now than where we were back in March - progress has been made, of that I am in no doubt. What would you do with Robinson tho? Is he fully redeemed, or have we just bought ourselves a brief respite? I'd almost prefer not to take the risk and, if circumstances permitted, allow him to leave with some of his dignity no reclaimed, than persist with a coach in whom my faith is still alarmingly low

[quote="funnyExiledScot"] we've seen Robinson open his eyes to the correct selection policy, two new and highly regarded coaches joining the fold and winning three games in tricky conditions against sides we were told we'd struggle to beat by most posters on here.

quote]

The first part I am not yet convinced of. Lets see if it was just how they fell rather than good selection policy.

The second part could have a great impact and fingers crossed it does

As it stands, he is not leaving, so I will put my sleep time wishes on him and the team

What we got to lose (except more dignity, hair and bragging rights)

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:What would you do with Robinson tho? Is he fully redeemed, or have we just bought ourselves a brief respite?

I hope you don't mind me answering that one too....

For me Robinson has bought himself time, nothing more. I certainly have not forgotten Park's playing against England, Morrison Playing at all or Lamont playing at centre.

He has made great strides in picking players in their positions (Barclay aside but I can't really say it was a bad decison, particularly against Oz) however he will have regressed if he goes back to the likes of Morrison in November or persists with Barclay at 8 over Denton or Kelly B.

It all comes down to what he does in the Autumn and a greater extent the 6N. If we don't come away with 3 wins in the 6N he has to go IMO. Win all 3 home games is the benchmark for me, Wales will be his toughest test.

I'd still remove him. No coach that could select Dan Parks at the start of the 6 Nations can be the right man to lead Scotland. It was that bad a judgement call.

As you say, it's all about circumstances. We'd need to know there was a better alternative, and how the new coaching team would be handled.

Still, I'm less bothered than I was in March, purely because he's now picking the right players. I'm still not convinced there's much magic going on as regards the backs coaching, and quite why we still can't catch a restart is beyond me, but provided he continues with the right players and progress continues to be made, I won't be hurling bricks at the SRU along with Schizoid.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'd still remove him. No coach that could select Dan Parks at the start of the 6 Nations can be the right man to lead Scotland. It was that bad a judgement call.

As you say, it's all about circumstances. We'd need to know there was a better alternative, and how the new coaching team would be handled.

Still, I'm less bothered than I was in March, purely because he's now picking the right players. I'm still not convinced there's much magic going on as regards the backs coaching, and quite why we still can't catch a restart is beyond me, but provided he continues with the right players and progress continues to be made, I won't be hurling bricks at the SRU along with Schizoid.

How about hurling Mashmallows?

I'm probably somewhere inbetween confectionary and rubble I'd say.

Shoes?

Dutch clogs?

From today's Torygraph:

Five things we learnt from Scotland's summer tour -
Alasdair Reid runs the rule over Scotland's successful tour of Australia, Fiji and Samoa.

By Alasdair Reid

1. Euan Murray really is world class.
There has been an impression at times that the mighty prop never really lived up to the potential he showed when he first broke into the Scotland side seven years ago. A number of relatively anonymous performances, a quiet Lions tour in 2009 and the emergence of credible tighthead rivals in the shape of Moray Low and Geoff Cross all provided fuel for his critics. However, Murray’s destructive scrummaging was critical in the wins over Australia and Fiji. The worry for coach Andy Robinson now is that the religiously devout prop will play no part in the November match against New Zealand as it take place on a Sunday.

2. Tim Visser is the real deal.
Even his closest friends must have had concerns for Tim Visser ahead of his debut against Fiji. The Dutch-born player had waited patiently for three years to earn his right to play for Scotland under residence rules, but the hype that preceded his arrival in the Test team amounted to a massive burden of expectation. He had delivered at club level as the RaboDirect PRO12’s top try-scorer for three consecutive seasons, but could he take that form into the international arena? Of course he could – two tries on his debut was a thunderous affirmation of his talents.

3. There is real strength in depth in the pack.
Historically, the Scottish pack has been a pretty fragile unit, never more than a couple of injuries away from being a dangerously weak outfit. However, the past three games have revealed that Robinson now has resources at his disposal that would have been the envy of all previous national coaches. Allan Jacobsen, Jim Hamilton and Kelly Brown were all unavailable for the tour, but Ryan Grant, Al Kellock and Al Strokosch all covered their positions magnificently.

4. Greig Laidlaw needs competition at fly-half.
Converted scrum-half Laidlaw has been a revelation for Scotland this year, but for all that he has stacked up the points there are still doubts about his ability to take overall control of a game. Against that, Robinson trusted him enough to keep him out there, giving back-up fly-half Duncan Weir just five minutes of game time against Fiji. Laidlaw needs more pressure than that. Could Matt Scott, now established at inside-centre but with plenty of experience at 10, be the man to provide it?

5. The Pacific nations need more home games.
Scotland’s tour may have lacked the ferocious intensity of the southern hemisphere ventures of England, Ireland and Wales, but they earned massive respect in Fiji and Samoa simply for turning up. The island nations established their credentials as rugby forces long ago, so the reluctance of top sides to travel there is a lasting disgrace. In the past decade, Scotland and Italy are the only teams from the Six Nations or Tri Nations to go there. Shamefully, New Zealand have never played a single Test match in the islands whose playing resources they have been plundering for years.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:From today's Torygraph:

Five things we learnt from Scotland's summer tour -
Alasdair Reid runs the rule over Scotland's successful tour of Australia, Fiji and Samoa.

By Alasdair Reid

1. Euan Murray really is world class.
There has been an impression at times that the mighty prop never really lived up to the potential he showed when he first broke into the Scotland side seven years ago. A number of relatively anonymous performances, a quiet Lions tour in 2009 and the emergence of credible tighthead rivals in the shape of Moray Low and Geoff Cross all provided fuel for his critics. However, Murray’s destructive scrummaging was critical in the wins over Australia and Fiji. The worry for coach Andy Robinson now is that the religiously devout prop will play no part in the November match against New Zealand as it take place on a Sunday.

2. Tim Visser is the real deal.
Even his closest friends must have had concerns for Tim Visser ahead of his debut against Fiji. The Dutch-born player had waited patiently for three years to earn his right to play for Scotland under residence rules, but the hype that preceded his arrival in the Test team amounted to a massive burden of expectation. He had delivered at club level as the RaboDirect PRO12’s top try-scorer for three consecutive seasons, but could he take that form into the international arena? Of course he could – two tries on his debut was a thunderous affirmation of his talents.

3. There is real strength in depth in the pack.
Historically, the Scottish pack has been a pretty fragile unit, never more than a couple of injuries away from being a dangerously weak outfit. However, the past three games have revealed that Robinson now has resources at his disposal that would have been the envy of all previous national coaches. Allan Jacobsen, Jim Hamilton and Kelly Brown were all unavailable for the tour, but Ryan Grant, Al Kellock and Al Strokosch all covered their positions magnificently.

4. Greig Laidlaw needs competition at fly-half.
Converted scrum-half Laidlaw has been a revelation for Scotland this year, but for all that he has stacked up the points there are still doubts about his ability to take overall control of a game. Against that, Robinson trusted him enough to keep him out there, giving back-up fly-half Duncan Weir just five minutes of game time against Fiji. Laidlaw needs more pressure than that. Could Matt Scott, now established at inside-centre but with plenty of experience at 10, be the man to provide it?

5. The Pacific nations need more home games.
Scotland’s tour may have lacked the ferocious intensity of the southern hemisphere ventures of England, Ireland and Wales, but they earned massive respect in Fiji and Samoa simply for turning up. The island nations established their credentials as rugby forces long ago, so the reluctance of top sides to travel there is a lasting disgrace. In the past decade, Scotland and Italy are the only teams from the Six Nations or Tri Nations to go there. Shamefully, New Zealand have never played a single Test match in the islands whose playing resources they have been plundering for years.

Weir, Leonard and Jackson?????

Scott has been in the team 20 seconds FFS - move hime to FH? Hope Robinson hasn't read this article.

Congratulations. A great tour and lifted Scotland into 9th place with the potential, if things go their way in November of achieving 8th.

I was going to leave it there, but Reid's article jars me. It's as usual the last sentence. The usual kiwi bashing. He's right NZ should play in Apia. It's reprehensible that we don't. However, the comment about pillaging is obviously rubbish and thrown into stark relief as the half the Samoan team are born in NZ and a number of others grew up here from a young age. Can you imagine the stick Wales would get, if half their players had been born and grew up in Leicester, and another quarter had lived from the age of 5 or 6 in Northhampton. The reason Ireland and Italy are playing in the Islands is because they weren't included on the 1st tier tours. From memory this was something Scotland was happy with as they feared big losses in places such as NZ.

Don't take what Reid says to heart blackc.

People who say stuff like that are pretty clueless of the truth and just jump on the ignorant bandwagon. I mean, he doesn't mention some of the Kiwi's we've plundered over the years (although the Chainsaw should have been shipped back straight away!)

May apologies Tattie. I am genuine in my praise for Scotland. They have outshone my expectations.

blackcanelion wrote:May apologies Tattie. I am genuine in my praise for Scotland. They have outshone my expectations.

Shoddy (and false) journalism, bc, apologies

It's not a particularly impressive article.

1. Euan Murray showed signs of returning to form, but let's wait until we see him against Woodcock or the Beast in the AIs. Until he starts taking apart top quality looseheads I'll remain sceptical. That the NZ game falls on a Sunday is a timely reminder of one of the issues with Murray.

3. Kellock did no cover "magnificently", he covered adequately. We also showed little depth at number 8 in the absence of Denton. Barclay was again adequate at 8, and I didn't hear much about Vernon's performance in the last game. We also have no depth at hooker. Yes, Ryan Grant and Ali Strokosch were both outstanding, but to say we have depth across the pack is wrong.

4. The Matt Scott suggestion is frankly stupid.

5. The NZ reference at the end is pathetic. How many time have we played the Netherlands after "plundering" their best player??

funnyExiledScot wrote:It's not a particularly impressive article.

1. Euan Murray showed signs of returning to form, but let's wait until we see him against Woodcock or the Beast in the AIs. Until he starts taking apart top quality looseheads I'll remain sceptical. That the NZ game falls on a Sunday is a timely reminder of one of the issues with Murray.

3. Kellock did no cover "magnificently", he covered adequately. We also showed little depth at number 8 in the absence of Denton. Barclay was again adequate at 8, and I didn't hear much about Vernon's performance in the last game. We also have no depth at hooker. Yes, Ryan Grant and Ali Strokosch were both outstanding, but to say we have depth across the pack is wrong.

4. The Matt Scott suggestion is frankly stupid.

5. The NZ reference at the end is pathetic. How many time have we played the Netherlands after "plundering" their best player??

Probably the less said, the better

Vernon was totally anonymous in the Samoa game.

Murray is not world class yet - could well become so if he pushes on now he's in his propping prime

Kellock was average

We only really have 1 international class hooker

Matt Scott is not the next option at 10

The NZ reference is ridiculous.

Awful article!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Not quite as bad as GC risky.... not far off though.

Everyone knows that Scotland are in the 2nd tier and Aus were weak but that isn't the point.

Scotland could only lose until this tour but they went to a place where rugby actually means something and closed out 2 very tight games. They also found Visser and started to score some tries. In visser, Laidlaw, Hogg and Gray amongst others they have a really good side developing

Winning on tour is never easy.

mowgli wrote:Everyone knows that Scotland are in the 2nd tier and Aus were weak but that isn't the point.

Scotland could only lose until this tour but they went to a place where rugby actually means something and closed out 2 very tight games. They also found Visser and started to score some tries. In visser, Laidlaw, Hogg and Gray amongst others they have a really good side developing

Winning on tour is never easy.

No Mowgli

Only the Welsh think the Aussies were weak. They weren't weak at all. The reason for their loss was due to it being the first time ever in the country's history that it rained and was windy.

Er no, Aus were weak

Morahan, Tomane, A. Faingaa, Harris, Ioane, Barnes, Genia, Slipper, Moore, Palmer, Timani, Sharpe, Dennis, Pocock, Higginbotham.

mowgli wrote:Er no, Aus were weak

Morahan, Tomane, A. Faingaa, Harris, Ioane, Barnes, Genia, Slipper, Moore, Palmer, Timani, Sharpe, Dennis, Pocock, Higginbotham.

Above in bold in the first 15 against Wales, strikethrough on the bench.

If you think that team is weak, then you are talking through your hoop.

If say 2-3 players against Wales only played against Scotland with the rest made up from non-super 15 players then yeah - the team would have been weak.

But it wasn't. It was a pretty good team I'd say.

9-6 away from home

Two wins on the trot against the Aussies

Agreed, not their top team, every team has injuries, etc. However not significantly weaker than the side which beat Wales 3-0. For example Pocock, Rennie owned him Warbs looked completely outclassed. Again injuries count.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

mowgli wrote:Er no, Aus were weak

Morahan, Tomane, A. Faingaa, Harris, Ioane, Barnes, Genia, Slipper, Moore, Palmer, Timani, Sharpe, Dennis, Pocock, Higginbotham.

Above in bold in the first 15 against Wales, strikethrough on the bench.

If you think that team is weak, then you are talking through your hoop.

If say 2-3 players against Wales only played against Scotland with the rest made up from non-super 15 players then yeah - the team would have been weak.

But it wasn't. It was a pretty good team I'd say.

9-6 away from home

Two wins on the trot against the Aussies

wtf has this got to do with Wales?

Lets just say some of the Welsh posters were putting the boot in as much as possible after our win, and being quite disrespectful in some cases! Hence Aslongas comment that

Only the Welsh think the Aussies were weak.

I have repeatedly lauded scotland for closing out two very tight games on tour. The Australian side they faced was not up to strength and thus relatively weak but nevertheless they beat an australian side on tour which is more than wales could do. Other than that it has feck all to do with wales, some people need to get over themselves

mowgli wrote: I have repeatedly lauded scotland for closing out two very tight games on tour. The Australian side they faced was not up to strength and thus relatively weak but nevertheless they beat an australian side on tour which is more than wales could do. Other than that it has feck all to do with wales, some people need to get over themselves

Could not agree more Mowgli.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

mowgli wrote: I have repeatedly lauded scotland for closing out two very tight games on tour. The Australian side they faced was not up to strength and thus relatively weak but nevertheless they beat an australian side on tour which is more than wales could do. Other than that it has feck all to do with wales, some people need to get over themselves

Could not agree more Mowgli.

O'Connor, AA Cooper, Horwill, Cooper, Beale etc etc all absent from Scotland win

Aus were not quite as weak as your attempt at humour.

What a defensive person you must be to get so uptight that you can't get over the fact you beat a weakened side so you have to start introducing other countries into the mix? Bizarre, but I guess though that being a Scottish fan you must be used to defending yourself.

Oh well, at least come the spring you'll have yet another spoon to stir with

Chris Paterson was missing for Scotland , as was Morrison, Dewey, Laney and Parks.

alive555 wrote:Chris Paterson was missing for Scotland , as was Morrison, Dewey, Laney and Parks.

and Hastings, Calder and White

Whilst I accept that it was nowhere near the first choice Aus side it certainly wasn't weak also I don't think that the conditions were suited to the type of rugby Scotland are trying to play and the type Australia play and there was never going to be free flowing rugby in that weather. To me the weather meant that the game means very little except a confidence and rankings booster for Scotland if it had been better I've no idea if Scotland would have won by more or lost. Even though we had a relatively strong side we were missing Denton, Hamilton and Jones; three of our stronger players in the six nations. So yes whilst it wasn't exactly close to Australia's best we weren't at full strength either and after our season I'd have taken 3-0 to be honest.

I don't think it matters how the circumstances culminated as a collective for Scotland to win the match, it was a decision by ARU to schedule a mtch knowing fully that Australia had to field two teams in 4 days.

They would never have been able to field a first fifteen for the two matches, add to that injuries to 4 of their top players.

Then the weather made an impact as well, rain is always a leveller as it doesn't allow for skillful running rugby as handling errors will increase.

However Scotland seized the opportunity and won the match.

It is true Australia doesn't have the depth to put out two different first fifteens in two matches, but then only the All Blacks could possibly do that, perhaps ARU should learn from this as it is the second time the Wallabies have now been caught out with a second string team.

Not Scotland's fault.

biltongbek wrote:I don't think it matters how the circumstances culminated as a collective for Scotland to win the match, it was a decision by ARU to schedule a mtch knowing fully that Australia had to field two teams in 4 days.

They would never have been able to field a first fifteen for the two matches, add to that injuries to 4 of their top players.

Then the weather made an impact as well, rain is always a leveller as it doesn't allow for skillful running rugby as handling errors will increase.

However Scotland seized the opportunity and won the match.

It is true Australia doesn't have the depth to put out two different first fifteens in two matches, but then only the All Blacks could possibly do that, perhaps ARU should learn from this as it is the second time the Wallabies have now been caught out with a second string team.

Not Scotland's fault.

Scotland can do that

15 Brown
14 Evans
13 Ansbro
12 Dunbar
11 S.Lamont
10. Weir
9 Cusiter
8 Beattie
7 Barclay
6 Strockosch
5 Kellock
4 Ryder
3 Cross
2 Lawson
1 Welsh

123456789 wrote:

biltongbek wrote:I don't think it matters how the circumstances culminated as a collective for Scotland to win the match, it was a decision by ARU to schedule a mtch knowing fully that Australia had to field two teams in 4 days.

They would never have been able to field a first fifteen for the two matches, add to that injuries to 4 of their top players.

Then the weather made an impact as well, rain is always a leveller as it doesn't allow for skillful running rugby as handling errors will increase.

However Scotland seized the opportunity and won the match.

It is true Australia doesn't have the depth to put out two different first fifteens in two matches, but then only the All Blacks could possibly do that, perhaps ARU should learn from this as it is the second time the Wallabies have now been caught out with a second string team.

Not Scotland's fault.

Scotland can do that

15 Brown
14 Evans
13 Ansbro
12 Dunbar
11 S.Lamont
10. Weir
9 Cusiter
8 Beattie
7 Barclay
6 Strockosch
5 Kellock
4 Ryder
3 Cross
2 Lawson
1 Welsh

I stand corrected.

Joking apart I think the team's with the best strength in depth are the All Blacks, France and South Africa.

South Africa hs proven their second XV is nowhere near their first XV.

Australia deliberately scheduled that game against Scotland and then made sure they lost. It worked for them last year losing to Manu Samoa and then going on to win the 3N. Deans, like all Canterbury people, is a shrewd tactician. Wales fell into his trap.

Only joking. Scotland can only win against who they put out to play them. Who's to say those balmy, summery Scottish summer conditions wouldn't have brought a similar result against the A team. I pity da fool who thinks that win is undervalued in any way.

That goes for any team Biltong, but those 3 sides have scary depth.

biltongbek wrote:South Africa hs proven their second XV is nowhere near their first XV.

Our second xv isn't far off our first but that doesn't mean that they're good!

mowgli wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

mowgli wrote: I have repeatedly lauded scotland for closing out two very tight games on tour. The Australian side they faced was not up to strength and thus relatively weak but nevertheless they beat an australian side on tour which is more than wales could do. Other than that it has feck all to do with wales, some people need to get over themselves

Could not agree more Mowgli.

O'Connor, AA Cooper, Horwill, Cooper, Beale etc etc all absent from Scotland win

Aus were not quite as weak as your attempt at humour.

What a defensive person you must be to get so uptight that you can't get over the fact you beat a weakened side so you have to start introducing other countries into the mix? Bizarre, but I guess though that being a Scottish fan you must be used to defending yourself.

Oh well, at least come the spring you'll have yet another spoon to stir with

Funny that as we selected a massively inexperienced side with some major key players missing like Denton

At the end of the day sideway compliments are pretty amusing, but we having our first game for many months beat a top 3 side who was still match sharp and fresh and also two other teams who at the time were ranked above us........... all in their backyard

You lost against a marginally (arguably) stronger Oz side who were on their 3rd game in 8 days, you had an experienced full strength "slam" side with the exception of Roberts.

So lets just say we werent expecting to win our summer series but did, and you were expecting to but didnt

flyhalffactory wrote:

mowgli wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

mowgli wrote: I have repeatedly lauded scotland for closing out two very tight games on tour. The Australian side they faced was not up to strength and thus relatively weak but nevertheless they beat an australian side on tour which is more than wales could do. Other than that it has feck all to do with wales, some people need to get over themselves

Could not agree more Mowgli.

O'Connor, AA Cooper, Horwill, Cooper, Beale etc etc all absent from Scotland win

Aus were not quite as weak as your attempt at humour.

What a defensive person you must be to get so uptight that you can't get over the fact you beat a weakened side so you have to start introducing other countries into the mix? Bizarre, but I guess though that being a Scottish fan you must be used to defending yourself.

Oh well, at least come the spring you'll have yet another spoon to stir with

Funny that as we selected a massively inexperienced side with some major key players missing like Denton

At the end of the day sideway compliments are pretty amusing, but we having our first game for many months beat a top 3 side who was still match sharp and fresh and also two other teams who at the time were ranked above us........... all in their backyard

You lost against a marginally (arguably) stronger Oz side who were on their 3rd game in 8 days, you had an experienced full strength "slam" side with the exception of Roberts.

So lets just say we werent expecting to win our summer series but did, and you were expecting to but didnt

Totally agree fhf though this was never about Wales and personally i wasn't expecting them to win the series without Roberts. Where was Denton?

Hamilton was suspended, Brown, Denton and Jones were injured. Jacobsen was rested.

I frankly don't care if Australia had to play Rolf Harris and Toadfish. It was a full cap international they agreed to, and they lost. End of.

I don't care about Wales, agree that they are irrelevant to this. Next time I care about Welsh rugby will be in the 6 Nations at Murrayfield. That's when we'll be able to test ourselves against them and make a comparison. As grand slam winners and victors against us last time we played, we have some catching up to do. The Australia results don't alter that.

Before that FES you meet SA, NZ and anybody else? Apart from Ireland, all the Home Nation teams really do seem to have some tough schedules. England's seems the toughest of the lot but every one is playing at least two of the big SH 3. Also a very good yardstick to see where Scotland is at.

Comparisons will be inevitably played because the teams are going to be playing the same teams but really that doesn't help much either because performance varies from day to day. You can only worry about your own performance.

Tonga, kia

Cheers ASBO. So if you beat Tonga that doesn't make you better than France. But if you beat Tonga, SA and NZ it does!

I'll happily settle for a good win against Tonga - the match is being played in Aberdeen, so they'll not be used to the Baltic climate!

Ah near the old man's birth place: the Blue Toon. Lovely stone architecture in Aberdeen but as cold looking as the wind that blows through it!