Scotland Summer Tour, Game 4: South Africa v Scotland, 28 June

South Africa v Scotland
28 June 2014, KO: 17:00 SAST (16:00 BST, 15:00 GMT)
Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth, Eastern Cape
 
Live on Sky Sports 1
 
Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Assistant referees: Romain Poite (France), Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)
Assessor: Donal Courtney (Ireland)
 
A. Previous tour game threads:

https://www.606v2.com/t54151-scotland-summer-tour-game-1-usa-v-scotland-7-june
https://www.606v2.com/t54218-scotland-summer-tour-game-2-canada-v-scotland-14-june
https://www.606v2.com/t54324-scotland-summer-tour-game-3-argentina-v-scotland-21-june
 
B. Teams:
 
I. South Africa

15 Willie le Roux - 14 caps, 30 Test points
14 Cornal Hendricks - 2 caps, 10 Test points
13 JP Pietersen - 53 caps, 80 Test points
12 Jan Serfontein - 11 caps, 5 Test points
11 Lwazi Mvovo - 8 caps, 5 Test points
10 Handré Pollard - uncapped
9 Fourie du Preez (vice-captain) - 69 caps, 75 Test points
 
8 Duane Vermeulen - 18 caps, 10 Test points
7 Schalk Burger - 70 caps, 65 Test points
6 Marcell Coetzee - 15 caps, 5 Test points
5 Victor Matfield (captain) - 112 caps, 35 Test points
4 Lood de Jager - 2 caps, 0 Test points
3 Jannie du Plessis - 53 caps, 5 Test points
2 Bismarck du Plessis (vice-captain) - 59 caps, 45 Test points
1 Coenie Oosthuizen - 16 caps, 10 Test points
 
16 Adriaan Strauss - 33 caps, 25 Test points
17 Trevor Nyakane - 3 caps, 5 Test points
18 Marcel van der Merwe - uncapped
19 Stephan Lewies - uncapped
20 Teboho “Oupa” Mohoje - uncapped
21 Francois Hougaard - 27 caps, 20 Test points
22 Marnitz Boshoff - uncapped
23 Zane Kirchner - 28 caps, 25 Test points
 
II. Scotland

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Sean Maitland
13 Nick De Luca
12 Peter Horne
11 Tommy Seymour
10 Duncan Weir
9 Henry Pyrgos

1 Alasdair Dickinson
2 Ross Ford
3 Geoff Cross
4 Tim Swinson
5 Grant Gilchrist
6 Robert Harley
7 Chris Fusaro
8 Adam Ashe

16 Kevin Bryce
17 Moray Low
18 Euan Murray
19 Jonny Gray
20 Tyrone Holmes
21 Grayson Hart
22 Dougie Fife
23 Peter Murchie
 
C. Numbers - head to head:
 
24 Played 24
19 Won 5
5 Lost 19
597 Points 264
 
D. Last Dozen Results
 
17 November 2013
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
0 – 28 to South Africa
 
15 June 2013
Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
30 – 17 to South Africa
 
17 November 2012
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 21 to South Africa
 
20 November 2010
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
21 – 17 to Scotland
 
15 November 2008
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 14 to South Africa
 
25 August 2007
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
3 –27 to South Africa
 
17 June 2006
EPRU Stadium, Port Elizabeth
29 –15 to South Africa
 
10 June 2006
Kings Park Stadium, Durban
36 –16 to South Africa
 
27 November 2004
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 45 to South Africa
 
14 June 2003
Ellis Park, Johannesburg
28 –19 to South Africa
 
7 June 2003
Kings Park Stadium, Durban
29 –25 to South Africa
 
16 November 2002
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
21 –6 to Scotland

The European players are going back to Europe, so we will see a few new selections, in particular at flyhalf which is a good thing, Adriaan Strauss is back after his ban, so I am sure he will play.

Likely Bok team

1. Trevor Nyakane
2. Adriaan Strauss
3. Coenie Oosthuizen/Jannie du Plessis
4. Lood de Jager
5. Vicki Matfield
6. Marcell Coetzee
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Fourie du Preez
10. Handre Pollard/Johan Goosen
11. Cornall Hendricks
12. Jan Serfontein
13. JP Pitersen
14. Lwazi Mvovo
15. Willie le Roux

Oh my god. Are you sure you haven't got another full back who needs the game time? 

I was kind of hoping you would play the Stormers Girls Under 15s Second XV against us.

This has got the makings of classic Scotland surprising us all. It will basically be our 4th XV playing against the 2nd best team in the world, away from home at the end of the long season.

Everyone expects a pumping - it would be very Scottish of us to keep the score respectable!

Oh also, just to get to SA Scotland has to take 4 flights, via Brazil during the height of the world cup.

Brilliant idea this was.

If we can keep it to under 50 I will be happy. I don't see SA putting out a strong team. I suspect we will see some youngsters in the squad.

Let me rephrase that. It will still be a strong team. Not their strongest team is what I mean

I honestly can't see why the Boks don't opt for a 10-12 axis of Carl Bezuidenhout and Andries Strauss.

It's the stuff dreams are made of.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Oh also, just to get to SA Scotland has to take 4 flights, via Brazil during the height of the world cup.

Brilliant idea this was.

Oh for smeg's sake. I thought that the reference to "4 flights" was to the fact that it took 4 individual flights to send all of the squad players over - not that each player who is now in Argentina would need to fly 4 times to get to Port Elizabeth.

This is like a Japanese endurance game show. Why did the remedial class members who scheduled this not allow 2 weeks instead of 1 between the 3rd and 4th tests? Or is part of the deal with SARU that we would provide a 4th string side who is hopelessly jetlagged and underslept? Presumably Dodson has a bet on with Paddy Power that Willie Le Roux will break the single game international try scoring record on Saturday.

They arrived this morning, having left on Saturday morning!

And by Saturday morning, I mean 4am Saturday morning si none of them will have had a good sleep after the match, and the 24 hours of flying won't have given them good recovery time either.

If Cotter is happy with this game bring tagged on the end of a long season then he needs his head examined.

SRU talk of player welfare but then agree to a 4 test Summer tour, across three continents.

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:If Cotter is happy with this game bring tagged on the end of a long season then he needs his head examined.

SRU talk of player welfare but then agree to a 4 test Summer tour, across three continents.

To be fair that is why very few of the players have done the whole tour. Just Maitland. Hogg and Hart. All of whom did not really play a full season for various reasons. I think we can cautioulsy say that it has been a relaltively successful tour so far and that it has been managaed as well as it could have been.

It was also arranged well before Cotter had anything to do with it!

RDW_Scotland wrote:It was also arranged well before Cotter had anything to do with it!

Not saying he had anything to do with arranging it.

Not sure what you're getting at then - if asked about it he's not exactly going to say it was a stupid idea and the players should be on holiday?

He'll know how ridiculous it is, but they've just got to suck it up and get on with it!

BigGee wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:If Cotter is happy with this game bring tagged on the end of a long season then he needs his head examined.

SRU talk of player welfare but then agree to a 4 test Summer tour, across three continents.

To be fair that is why very few of the players have done the whole tour. Just Maitland. Hogg and Hart. All of whom did not really play a full season for various reasons. I think we can cautioulsy say that it has been a relaltively successful tour so far and that it has been managaed as well as it could have been.

True they have not all played in four games but they have all been in training. At some point the pro game is going to realise it's grinding players into the ground.

Anyway it is what it is.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Not sure what you're getting at then - if asked about it he's not exactly going to say it was a stupid idea and the players should be on holiday?

He'll know how ridiculous it is, but they've just got to suck it up and get on with it!

Getting at that the coach has been stuck with a skeleton squad at the end of a long season. Playing game outside the IRB window is an utter joke.

George Carlin wrote:Oh my god. Are you sure you haven't got another full back who needs the game time? 

I was kind of hoping you would play the Stormers Girls Under 15s Second XV against us.

Depending on how much Meyer is prepared to experiment you may see Lwzi Mvovo at fullback and Willie on the bench

What irritates me is how we hear Stuart Hogg 'loves to practice goal kicking' and long range ones especially, yet he is hardly ever used. Either he should be more productive with his time or actually try and get the opportunity more with VC. I'd prefer the latter - would be a useful asset to develop.

Well to put things into perspective, here is a list of players, who realistically could gave been picked, either injured or unavailable for selection due to it being outside the international window or 7s preperation:

Props
Grant
Cross
Traynor
Low

Hooker
Lawson
Hall

Locks
Hamilton
Gray snr
Kellock

6/8
Brown
Strokosh
Denton
Low
Beattie
Wilson

Openside
Rennie, Barclay, Cowan, Grant (7s)

Scrum half
Laidlaw
Cusiter

Stand off
Jackson

Centre
Scott
Dunbar
Taylor
Bennet (7s)
Vernon (7s)

Wing
Evans
Lamont (7s)

Fullback
Tonks

So that's 30 players - two entire starting XVs - that are unavailable for this game.

On one hand you could say that it is a sign of strength in depth that we are actually able to put out a XV for this game that isn't completely ridiculous, but on the other hand it really is a farce that we are in this situation.

I think SA is in pretty much the same boat, however I have to admit we probably have a bit more depth than Scotland.

Biltong wrote:I think SA is in pretty much the same boat, however I have to admit we probably have a bit more depth than Scotland.

Despite the fact that SA has significantly higher playing number, many more professional players and teams, do you have 30 players unavailable too??

Well I haven't done the math, but will give it a go.

Gurthro Steenkamp
Schalk Brits
Frans Malherbe
Eben Etzebeth
Pieter Steph du TOit
Bakkies Botha
Juan SMith
Pierre Spies
Arno Botha
Patrick Lambie
Johan Goosen
Morne Steyn
Frans Steyn
Jean de Villiers
Jaque FOurie
Ruan PIenaar
Wynand Olivier

Those are the ones I could think of now, this doesn't include previously selected players that wasn't called up for this series.

My heart bleeds for you poor South Africans Biltong - must be so tough having some players out given you've got the big meanies from Scotland coming to play against you!   

this doesn't include previously selected players that wasn't called up for this series.

We literally cannot call up any more players.  We have no players left to call upon!

To put things into perspective:

Adults playing rugby

Scotland                          SA

17,055               -             121,663

Number of professional teams

Scotland                           SA

2                       -              6 in Super Rugby alone

World ranking

Scotland                           SA

8                        -             2


Scotland missing 30 players is a big deal.  Even if SA had 30 players missing your strength in depth is such that you would still put an incredibly competitive XV out. We are genuinely one or two injuries away from not being able to put out 23 players.

I'd be astonished if you're trying to claim SA are hard pressed just now, especially relative to Scotland!

You are being way to negative about the whole thing RD. Yes it is going to be very tough, we are playing one of the best teams in the world, who do have a lot more depth than us, but there is no point trying to get the excuses in early.

Let the guys who are playing try and measure themselves up against this team. For some of them it may be the only chance they get to play in a game like this. The Canadians and the Americans were certainly up for it when they played us, a game which they had no chance on paper of winning, but they certainly gave it a go.

Really for Scotland this is a game with no pressure, no one is giving us a chance so there is the opportunity for the players to relax and play well. We have beaten South Africa in the recent past and taken them close at home. We have also won our last three games and have a new coach to impress still. It is not all doom and gloom.

I actually take the view that it is a sign of our much improved squad depth that we can put out a half decent side in the circumstances. That can only be a good thing for now and the future.

Biggee, my intentions were not mainly to be all doom and gloom but

A - poke Biltong with a stick and see what happens

B - Show my incredulity (that's a word - I checked!) that he was trying to claim that SA were struggling with players unavailable too

I'm with you that there's nothing really to lose and no one is expecting anything so the guys just need to give it a go. Looking at the bigger picture though I'm really not sure this is going to make much of a difference to Scotland's chances in the WC, and taking the season into a week longer than usual is going to have an effect on the pro teams, particularly Glasgow who are so well represented in this half of the tour.

Seems someone has made a parody Twitter account of Vern Cotter:

https://twitter.com/vern_cotter/with_replies

Actually quite a laugh

RDW_Scotland wrote:Biggee, my intentions were not mainly to be all doom and gloom but

A - poke Biltong with a stick and see what happens

B - Show my incredulity (that's a word - I checked!) that he was trying to claim that SA were struggling with players unavailable too

I'm with you that there's nothing really to lose and no one is expecting anything so the guys just need to give it a go.  Looking at the bigger picture though I'm really not sure this is going to make much of a difference to Scotland's chances in the WC, and taking the season into a week longer than usual is going to have an effect on the pro teams, particularly Glasgow who are so well represented in this half of the tour.

So that s where you were going with this?

Hmmm, too subtle for me this morning, I have been fighting with my service provider who is screwing me royally with my data bundles, tells me I am using 5 times more data than any preceding year.

I am now cancelling the whole lot, had enough of their rubbish.

As the GLA/EDI club feed is a bit     just now, thought I'd put this here.

Edinburgh Rugby Twitter: We're delighted to welcome seven new EDPs to the club for the 2014/15 season! Full update and bios coming soon!

https://twitter.com/edinburghrugby

Biltong wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Biggee, my intentions were not mainly to be all doom and gloom but

A - poke Biltong with a stick and see what happens

B - Show my incredulity (that's a word - I checked!) that he was trying to claim that SA were struggling with players unavailable too

I'm with you that there's nothing really to lose and no one is expecting anything so the guys just need to give it a go.  Looking at the bigger picture though I'm really not sure this is going to make much of a difference to Scotland's chances in the WC, and taking the season into a week longer than usual is going to have an effect on the pro teams, particularly Glasgow who are so well represented in this half of the tour.

So that s where you were going with this?

Hmmm, too subtle for me this morning, I have been fighting with my service provider who is screwing me royally with my data bundles, tells me I am using 5 times more data than any preceding year.

I am now cancelling the whole lot, had enough of their rubbish.

Too much time on here!

Or, bucketloads of porn.  

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Biltong wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Biggee, my intentions were not mainly to be all doom and gloom but

A - poke Biltong with a stick and see what happens

B - Show my incredulity (that's a word - I checked!) that he was trying to claim that SA were struggling with players unavailable too

I'm with you that there's nothing really to lose and no one is expecting anything so the guys just need to give it a go.  Looking at the bigger picture though I'm really not sure this is going to make much of a difference to Scotland's chances in the WC, and taking the season into a week longer than usual is going to have an effect on the pro teams, particularly Glasgow who are so well represented in this half of the tour.

So that s where you were going with this?

Hmmm, too subtle for me this morning, I have been fighting with my service provider who is screwing me royally with my data bundles, tells me I am using 5 times more data than any preceding year.

I am now cancelling the whole lot, had enough of their rubbish.

Too much time on here!

Or, bucketloads of porn.  

I got this network router, and all of a sudden my usage went up, now in this wonderful country of ours, either someone has duplicated a sim, or gotten hold of the password, but I am doing nothing different than what I did before, my Son is too young to watch ladies of ill repute.

BigGee wrote:You are being way to negative about the whole thing RD. Yes it is going to be very tough, we are playing one of the best teams in the world, who do have a lot more depth than us, but there is no point trying to get the excuses in early.

Let the guys who are playing try and measure themselves up against this team. For some of them it may be the only chance they get to play in a game like this. The Canadians and the Americans were certainly up for it when they played us, a game which they had no chance on paper of winning, but they certainly gave it a go.

Really for Scotland this is a game with no pressure, no one is giving us a chance so there is the opportunity for the players to relax and play well. We have beaten South Africa in the recent past and taken them close at home. We have also won our last three games and have a new coach to impress still. It is not all doom and gloom.

I actually take the view that it is a sign of our much improved squad depth that we can put out a half decent side in the circumstances. That can only be a good thing for now and the future.

I know what you mean, but I'm not sure I would describe this as an opportunity to "relax"!

Still, expectations are zero for this game, and a couple of individuals (Jonny Gray and Rob Harley) should see this as a great opportunity to enhance reputations in a difficult environment. Wales proved on Saturday that you can make ground against these guys by attacking the space, and I thought Mike Phillips did a really good job attacking the fringes where the South African defence was understaffed. We know the South Africans will be excellent on the counter-attack, so we need to starve them of opportunities. We also know that at some stage we'll be defending against a series of driving mauls, so we need to work like crazy on that without giving away yellow cards. The lesson from the Wales game is that if the ref is warning you after a couple of penalties, if in doubt don't commit a further infringement. Wales lost two players to the bin and a penalty try. Had Charteris not committed such an obvious offence, I suspect South Africa would have scored, but Wales would have kept 15 players on the pitch and Steyn's conversion would have been from the touchline. That's 17-5 rather than 17-14 in the context of what turned out to be a 1 point game. We must keep discipline in defence. This will be a big test of our new captain, assuming Gilchrist continues in the role.

Biltong wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Biltong wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Biggee, my intentions were not mainly to be all doom and gloom but

A - poke Biltong with a stick and see what happens

B - Show my incredulity (that's a word - I checked!) that he was trying to claim that SA were struggling with players unavailable too

I'm with you that there's nothing really to lose and no one is expecting anything so the guys just need to give it a go.  Looking at the bigger picture though I'm really not sure this is going to make much of a difference to Scotland's chances in the WC, and taking the season into a week longer than usual is going to have an effect on the pro teams, particularly Glasgow who are so well represented in this half of the tour.

So that s where you were going with this?

Hmmm, too subtle for me this morning, I have been fighting with my service provider who is screwing me royally with my data bundles, tells me I am using 5 times more data than any preceding year.

I am now cancelling the whole lot, had enough of their rubbish.

Too much time on here!

Or, bucketloads of porn.  

I got this network router, and all of a sudden my usage went up, now in this wonderful country of ours, either someone has duplicated a sim, or gotten hold of the password, but I am doing nothing different than what I did before, my Son is too young to watch ladies of ill repute.

If he's 12 years or older it's fair to say I know where your problem lies!   

In other news, Scotland have consolidated 8th in the IRB rankings and Argentina have slipped down to 12th. Shows you the difference a 2 point win makes!

Japan have beaten Italy.

http://www.irb.com/rankings/sportid=1/news/newsid=2072070.html#brave+blossoms+break+into

Was reasonably confident about our WC pool, but seriously worried now. We only just beat Italy this season. Lots of banana skins between Samoa, Japan and USA.

Really looking forward to the match, actually think it'll be closer than expected.  Just hope the travel & long season don't catch up with us early in the match or it could well be a thumping.

Crazy when you think about the XV we could put out of players not involved;

Grant, Lawson, Cross, Gray, Hamilton, Brown, Rennie, Beattie, Cusiter, Russell, Visser, Scott, Dunbar, Lamont, Tonks

Hall, Reid, Low, Kellock, Denton, Laidlaw, Jackson, Evans


I'm confident about the World Cup, so long as we avoid major injuries.  

Cotter is a very good coach and it won't be until the 6 Nations when we can really start to judge the progress but he's got a quality pool of players to pick from.  And most importantly we've got a handful of very dangerous backs (Hogg, Scott, Maitland, Seymour, Visser, Dunbar) and with a good platform we will score tries.

To beat Japan, USA & Samoa we just need to play smart rugby, I'd back our set-piece against all three and our ability to play a superior territorial game.  If we can focus on making those two aspects, along with defence, our strengths over the next 15 months we should be more than capable of getting out of the group.

What is most promising for me, and most peculiar, is that strangely the majority of good play and tries this tour has come from the backs. It's our pack that has been letting us down.

If we can carry on in this regard in the back division and combine that with the pack getting back to Andy Robinson era levels, then we should be a lot more competitive.

In fact looking at our try scoreres this tour:

Visser
Penalty
Hogg
Gilchrist
Hogg
Pyrgos

That's 4 out of the 6 tries come from the backs!

Hopefully we'll never see a Scotland winger with 88 caps and 12 tries to his name again.

....or a 6 Nations where our top scorer is the loosehead prop with one try (the free scoring Tom Smith), or indeed a 6 Nations where we don't score any tries...... (I believe our wingers were excellent defensively though....).

Actually, having trickier opponents could ensure we're sharper for Samoa and SA so it could be a positive

On a side note, Ian Evans has gone from Ospreys, to Toulon to ... wait for it...

Spoiler:

Springbok tries the past two tests.

Habana 2
Hendricks 2
Le Roux 2
Vermeulen
Penalty x 2

One penalty try at the maul, the other in the corner.

Sp assuming the penalty tries were normal tries, then 7 via the backs and 2 via the forwards.

Biltong wrote: 7 via the backs and 2 via the forwards.

Where's the real South Africa and what have you done with them??   

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Biltong wrote: 7 via the backs and 2 via the forwards.

Where's the real South Africa and what have you done with them??   

Well, it has been going on for a while now, since last year 56 in total, 43 tries by the backs and 13 by the forwards in 14 tests.

Biltong wrote:Springbok tries the past two tests.

Habana 2
Hendricks 2
Le Roux 2
Vermeulen
Penalty x 2

9 tries in two tests. I think Scotland will usually reach that total across two seasons, although not always.

Short of some waitress poisoning the entire Springbok squad prior to kick-off, and in addition insisting that Le Roux plays the entire 80 minutes hopping on one leg, we are not going to win this game.

There is a chance though for individuals to enhance reputations. Gray and Gilchrist are going to get a shot against Victor Matfield in all likelihood, and Harley and Fusaro against Coetzee and Alberts. I personally don't think this fixture is a good idea, but we're stuck with it and it does give some of our players a chance to test themselves against the very best.

What Meyer should do with this test is experiment.

Biltong wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Biltong wrote: 7 via the backs and 2 via the forwards.

Where's the real South Africa and what have you done with them??   

Well, it has been going on for a while now, since last year 56 in total, 43 tries by the backs and 13 by the forwards in 14 tests.

What do you red blooded Saffer blokes think about that? Can't be having the poncey fairies in the backline getting all the tries when it should be the big fellas in the forwards smashing people and mauling it in from the halfway!

Sorry I am lying, it was 15 by the forwards and 41 by the backs, that looks better, eh?

Some people on the Scotsman website commenting on how it is disappointing we aren't in NZ's first choice list for tests/will be used as warm up games. Also annoyed we aren't playing 3-test series games. I can't help but disagree.

What use would it be to get thumped three times by the likes of South Africa? We'd find out nothing, SA would learn nothing, and it would embarrass us. Surely we should explore more a test series against the likes of Argentina, Samoa or maybe Japan by recent results, so that we can play opposition that will be a stern test but we could do well/win?

If we have Seymour, do people think we could see 15 Murchie, 14 Maitland, 11 Seymour, Hogg at centre? Maybe with Fife?

Nematode wrote:If we have Seymour, do people think we could see 15 Murchie, 14 Maitland, 11 Seymour, Hogg at centre? Maybe with Fife?

This weekend?

I'd be surprised if Murchie got no game-time this weekend, that said I can't see Cotter not selecting the strongest XV possible which probably has Hogg at 15.