England team and the so called Golden Generation

England had this golden generation Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Gerrard and Owen mainly. Owen is already done and England haven't had a natural and regular goalscorer since. But these guys are coming to the end of their international careers maybe only 1 more tournament in them but who are the replacements?

Their are some decent guys bout at centre back like Cahill and Dawson but they are surely not as good as Ferdinand or Terry.

Don't see another left back around half as good as Cole.

Wilshere is good but will do well to be as good a player as Gerrard or Lampard.

Carroll is overrated and don't see any other young strikers that can score the goals that England have missed since Owen. Defoe, Bent and Crouch have had chances but none of them have been able to do the buisness regularly enoug to hold down a regular starting place.

The golden generation were very talented and have proved it at club level but not at international level. Could the next generation who don't seem to be as talented fair any better?

They can't do much worse.

Sturridge if he gets his head screwed on properly; which Owen Coyle seems to have gotten done; he'll be a cracking player!

Personally at the moment I believe that both Cahill and Dawson are playing better than Terry. Yes he is passionate and will always give 100% but he is also becoming more and more imobile and is giving away more and more silly free kicks.

There is no player that will be able to replace Ashley Cole immediately, the same way I think we are stil struggling to replace Gary Neville at right back. However if we can get a steady replacement in then I dont think we will have too much of an issue.

Wilshere has the potential to be better than Lampard or Gerrard, they are also very different types of player, Wilshere has a better passing ability than Lampard but at the moment doesnt have the same shooting ability, if he is used correctly and is given the chance to develop I see no reason he cant lead England in the future.

I wouldnt say Carroll is over-rated, I think a lot is expectedof him and he nees to time to settle at Liverpool. Once he has settled into his role I think we will see the same performances that we saw at Newcastle

davidl1061 wrote:Personally at the moment I believe that both Cahill and Dawson are playing better than Terry. Yes he is passionate and will always give 100% but he is also becoming more and more imobile and is giving away more and more silly free kicks.

There is no player that will be able to replace Ashley Cole immediately, the same way I think we are stil struggling to replace Gary Neville at right back. However if we can get a steady replacement in then I dont think we will have too much of an issue.

Wilshere has the potential to be better than Lampard or Gerrard, they are also very different types of player, Wilshere has a better passing ability than Lampard but at the moment doesnt have the same shooting ability, if he is used correctly and is given the chance to develop I see no reason he cant lead England in the future.

I wouldnt say Carroll is over-rated, I think a lot is expectedof him and he nees to time to settle at Liverpool. Once he has settled into his role I think we will see the same performances that we saw at Newcastle

You're saying Carroll is worth £35m

Leighton Baines is the man to replace Cole, nowhere near the same standard as Cole but still a cracking player. Kieran Gibbs could be a long term replacement but he has still to be properly tested.

Got to agree with davidl061 on the John Terry situation. I would have either Cahill and Dawson in the starting line up rather than Terry. Never been his biggest fan and I have never really rated his England performances.

AberdeenSteve wrote:Leighton Baines is the man to replace Cole, nowhere near the same standard as Cole but still a cracking player. Kieran Gibbs could be a long term replacement but he has still to be properly tested.

Got to agree with davidl061 on the John Terry situation. I would have either Cahill and Dawson in the starting line up rather than Terry. Never been his biggest fan and I have never really rated his England performances.

With you on Cole, Baines is good but nowhere near him but he is about 28 so not the future.

Would have Cahill or Dawson now I think we've seen the best of Terry but that's the point of the thread. Terry at his best was excellent Dawson isn't a young guy and Cahill will be lucky to be as good as Terry at his best

No I dont think he is worth £35 million, however this isnt down to being over-rated, this is down to him being bought in the over inflated January transfer window

Maybe over inflated january maket but it doesn't make an £8m player a £35m player. He looks decent but nowhere near £35m. The fact he seems to get into trouble away from the park should be a worry as well.

Is it his fault though that Liverpool paid £35 million? i dont think it is. All he can do is play his best and see if that is good enough. He has had a few issues away from the park but so have a lot of players. We shall see if he has learnt from his mistakes

davidl1061 wrote:Is it his fault though that Liverpool paid £35 million? i dont think it is. All he can do is play his best and see if that is good enough. He has had a few issues away from the park but so have a lot of players. We shall see if he has learnt from his mistakes

I'm not saying it's his fault but it's a ridiculous price tag for a guy with a little more than a handful af good games at the top level under his belt. Would yo pay£35m for a guy that 2 months previous was convicted of battering his girlfriend?

Personally no I wouldnt, mainly because of the amount of games he has played though not due to any off field activities, he is a young man and Im sure will learn how he needs to act if he wants to make it as a top player, maybe last night went some way to paying back the exorbitant transfer fee

I do like Carroll but the price tag for what he has shown on and away from the pitch is way to high. Don't really see him being any better than Peter Crouch so if the future of England rests on his shoulders they will be in worse shape than they are now.

I think he has the potential to be much better than Crouch, he is already a better header of the ball and much more of a 'target man'. He has a greater physical presence,however he isnt currently as good with the ball at his feet, although he seems to have an excellent strike of the ball

Agree about that but technically he is inept. Crouch is excellent with the ball at his feet for a guy his size. Back to topic a bit though Do you think the next generation of England players are as talented as the last?

I think it's unfair to label Carroll as a thug, I think he should be on the straight and narrow from now on. When he was with us he did really well at holding the ball up and can pass it quite well. When he runs and gets to full pace he looks so dangerous, this with his strength made him a handful when running at a defender. You also kept on going back to how much his transfer fee was- that's Liverpool rating him quite highly, or Newcastle taking advantage of him being young, English and knowing Liverpool had a lot of money to play with. Most people rate him as one of the future England strikers, and as you've pointed out there isn't too many others breaking through.

Dawson, Cahill, Shawcross, Walker, Baines all palying first team football and looking quite sharp.
In midfield and attack: Huddlestone, Wilshere, Delph, Rodwell, Henderson, McEachran, Cleverley, Young, Lennon, Walcott, Albrighton, Jarvis, A.Johnson, Carroll, Sturridge, Carroll, Bent, Rooney.

All have potential and look quite good so far, maybe shoving players like these on to the international scene would boost them further.

I think we have a good generation of young players coming through and it will only improve . As long as they are given time to develop and brought through carefully I dont see why we cant improve on virtually every position

The so called Golden Generation aren't nearly as talented as the England teams of the 80s and 90s and Andy Carroll is a cracking forward, he may not be worth £35m but he didnt put that valuation on his head, he has pace power great in the air a decent touch and an eye for goal, he'll only get better

the-gaffer wrote:The so called Golden Generation aren't nearly as talented as the England teams of the 80s and 90s and Andy Carroll is a cracking forward, he may not be worth £35m but he didnt put that valuation on his head, he has pace power great in the air a decent touch and an eye for goal, he'll only get better

Not sure about that. The so called golden generation have proved at club level they are as good as anybody.

davidl1061 wrote:I think we have a good generation of young players coming through and it will only improve . As long as they are given time to develop and brought through carefully I dont see why we cant improve on virtually every position

That's the problem I don't see any young center halfs as good Ferdinand. Wilshere will be doing well to be the goal scoring midfielder Lampard is or the driving force Gerrard is. I think the next generation aren't as talented but can't see them achieving less because this generation has seriously under achieved. Their records and performances for their clubs show that.

Churchill wrote:I think it's unfair to label Carroll as a thug, I think he should be on the straight and narrow from now on. When he was with us he did really well at holding the ball up and can pass it quite well. When he runs and gets to full pace he looks so dangerous, this with his strength made him a handful when running at a defender. You also kept on going back to how much his transfer fee was- that's Liverpool rating him quite highly, or Newcastle taking advantage of him being young, English and knowing Liverpool had a lot of money to play with. Most people rate him as one of the future England strikers, and as you've pointed out there isn't too many others breaking through.

Dawson, Cahill, Shawcross, Walker, Baines all palying first team football and looking quite sharp.
In midfield and attack: Huddlestone, Wilshere, Delph, Rodwell, Henderson, McEachran, Cleverley, Young, Lennon, Walcott, Albrighton, Jarvis, A.Johnson, Carroll, Sturridge, Carroll, Bent, Rooney.

All have potential and look quite good so far, maybe shoving players like these on to the international scene would boost them further.

Might help them or might kill them the first time they make a mistake. Look at what happened to Beckham in 98 if he wasn't so mentally strong he could have crumbled.

Churchill, I've got to agree with you there mate. I feel for England to be able to move forward they've got to play some of the up and coming guys in the Euro qualifiers. They may need to fall a couple of steps to come back stronger.

I don't think that the next generation can match up in quality to this, but I can actually see them doing better. This generation have under achieved I'm not moaning btw I've enjoyed watching it. Euro 2008 was the best tournament in a long time because England weren't in it so the coverage of other teams was better.

I think you vastly overrate this 'golden generation' was Owen as good as Lineker or Shearer? IMO no is Gerrard as good as Robson or Gazza? IMO no, Is Joe Cole as good as Barnes or McManaman? again IMO no, Is Terry better than Butcher or Adams? IMO no, Is Lampard as good as Wilkins or Scholes? IMO, Is Rooney as good as Beardsley or Sheringham? Hmmm possibly, Ashley Cole is for me the only definitive player from the 'golden generation' thats better than others in his position from the 80s and 90s

Ferdinand isnt the player he once was, out of the current crop, I would have Cahill and Dawson in there, pluss it depends on the development of the players in the 21s and 20s

davidl1061 wrote:Ferdinand isnt the player he once was, out of the current crop, I would have Cahill and Dawson in there, pluss it depends on the development of the players in the 21s and 20s

No he isn't but that's the point their is clearly a downgrade in quality. Ferdinand was an excellant defender and so was Terry but they look past their best. The younger guys don't look as good as my opinion but it's more about their attitude and how they gel as a team because they aren't bad players.

the-gaffer wrote:I think you vastly overrate this 'golden generation' was Owen as good as Lineker or Shearer? IMO no is Gerrard as good as Robson or Gazza? IMO no, Is Joe Cole as good as Barnes or McManaman? again IMO no, Is Terry better than Butcher or Adams? IMO no, Is Lampard as good as Wilkins or Scholes? IMO, Is Rooney as good as Beardsley or Sheringham? Hmmm possibly, Ashley Cole is for me the only definitive player from the 'golden generation' thats better than others in his position from the 80s and 90s

Gazza better than Gerrard is a joke when was this? Inconsistent at Newcastle, Spurs and Lazio and playing in an awful league at Rangers who were poor in Europe. Moments of genius yet but never had Gerrards consistency. Ferdinand at his best 2 years ago was better than Butcher and Adams maybe Englands best since Moore. Lampard is more of a goal threat than Wilkins and Scholes but can't a ball like Scholes but would always have him ahead of Wilkins.

I didnt compare Rio with Butcher or Adams, you conveintently did that to suit your point, i compared them to someone who was more in their style - John Terry, Rio was more like a Des Walker, you vastly overrate these players and aren't willing to acknowledge that so this conversation is fruitless

the-gaffer wrote:I didnt compare Rio with Butcher or Adams, you conveintently did that to suit your point, i compared them to someone who was more in their style - John Terry, Rio was more like a Des Walker, you vastly overrate these players and aren't willing to acknowledge that so this conversation is fruitless

Not vastly overated I think you'll find they are all top players at top clubs and have been amongst the best players in their position in the strongest league in the world. Go and look up how many appearences they have all made for their clubs and what trophies they have won. This conversation isn't fruitless. The current crop who are coming to the end are top class players and have proved that at club level.

Terry was one of the best centre half in the world and Rio was probably the best. Dawson isn't a young guy he's about 27 and no where near as good as either of them a couple of years ago. Cahill is a couple of years younger but will never be anywhere near the level of Rio.

Their is no one of Ashley Coles quality around. Baines is good but is about 28 Cole is probably the best left back in the world Baines will never be that good. England still haven't found a real replacement for Neville. Jonson can go forward but can't defend so he's a poor replacement.

Gerrard and Lampard are two of the best midfielders of their generation and that is a fact. Wilshere looks good but can't spray a ball like Gerrard and doesn't look the goal threat Frank is. Henderson looks a decent box to box midfielder but can't see him at the level Gerrard and Lampard have had their careers at. Rodwell is good but injuries have stopped him from progressing as he should have so he's hard to judge.

Wide men like Young and Johnson look good but very few teams play with out and out wingers in the modern game and most like a 3 man midfield, so their chances may be limited although I think Young will get more games.

Up front England aren't blessed with top talent apart from Rooney. Crouch, Defoe and Bent have all struggled to make the other striker role alongside Rooney their own. Carroll looks decent but still has a lot to prove on and off the park. Sturridge looks a good player but not a center forward. Similar to Rooney as he likes to drop off and pull out wide and this could restrict his chances because he would be doing well to be a better player than Rooney.

This is relevant as most international teams have exceptional generations of players and this one was. They just never did it at international level but more than proved how good they were for their clubs.

I can't believe nobody has mentioned Martin Kelly for either centre back or right back.

He has pushed our current first choice right back Glen Johnson out of the Liverpool first team, and he naturally a centre back. Has always looked steady at the back, and is only getting better going forward.

I don't think the next generation of players are as good as the last batch, but I think if we can get them early and working together as a team they will perform better, just look at the U21s.

I think it's a sign of the Premier League decreasing in value, not just with English players either.

I'd like to add,having seen Ashley Cole first hand yesterday,that he is the one True World Clas player England have.He's such an unlikeable bloke but he can't half play.He was the first attacking option,and was always back to defend.Truly world class!