Lions 1 Year Out Captain Poll

Just a little aside from Rava's article. Would be interested to see if we can call this right, 1 year out, especially when you consider the massive role the coming season has in relation to selection. Let me know if you want anyone added to poll.

I went for Best.

BOD - I am not too sure he will make it to the Lions tour. He is getting on, and one injury this season may end him.
POC - more or less see above
Warburton - not too sure he is first choice Welsh openside at the moment, and again he is injury prone
AWJ - Good option, IMO should tour, but maybe not first choice
R Jones - IMO won't tour not a test starter for his nation, can't see how he would be a Lions starter
Robshaw - Not sure he would be a test starter over Ferris or Lydiate (or Denton maybe)
Hartley - I just don't like him
Best - he is a grafter and a dead cert to start
Ford - dount he will start
Heaslip - Again too much competition for his shirt from Denton, Morgan and Faleatay
Gray - Dead cert to start, maybe vice capt.
Sexton - Not too sure about him as a captain to be honest
Wilko- ppphhh why not put Gavin Henson down as well.

we can't even call who is going to be starting, let alone be captain.

Gray looks like the only one really sure of a start, too young to be Capt though in my opinion!

POC is capt if he is going to start every game
Best is Capt is POC is not going to be starting.
Ford is Capt if POC and Best are not starting!

Or Gatters my go off on a tangent and pick somoen silly like Jones!

BOD won't play and POC will probably be pushing it. neither are the best in their position anymore and Ireland don't miss POC when he's not playing.

I voted for Ryan Jones because he is an inspirational and positive man. He is also in the form of his life so he stands a good chance of playing.

mckay1402 wrote:BOD won't play and POC will probably be pushing it. neither are the best in their position anymore and Ireland don't miss POC when he's not playing.

I voted for Ryan Jones because he is an inspirational and positive man. He is also in the form of his life so he stands a good chance of playing.

POC is a huge loss when he isnt playing for munster or ireland. until injury this year he was playing some of his best rugby

If he can sustain his current form and fitness then I can't see past BOD. Hes the only player who ticks all the boxes as I've mentioned elsewhere.

If he can't or if Gatland decides BOD doesn't fit his midfield plans then I think O'Connell is the next obvious choice, followed by Ford.

Three guys who've captained their country, toured before and beaten Australia. Guaranteed to start? I'd say most positions are touch and go at this stage with 2 or 3 very close in a lot of them....these 3 are as close as any...Best and Ford are very close though so that goes against Ford.

In terms of Welshmen AWJ, Jenkins and Ryan Jones would be dark horses but would Gatland elevate them above Warburton? I doubt it.

Warbs will likely start but I don't think he should captain but concentrate on his game without the added pressure of captaincy. Combating Pocock is enough responsibility.

Robshaw has done well for England but is he one of the best 2 flankers? No I don't think so. Again hasn't toured before.

You can knock Warburton, Robshaw, Hartley, Best, Gray & Sexton off that list for starters as they have never toured with the Lions before.

And there is some rubbish being talked about Paul O'Connell's form here. Crickey, Ireland had him on stand-by in London to see if he would have been fit enough to travel to NZ, but thankfully let him stay at home to recover and is now in preseason training, something he hasn't had for a couple of years because he is always being rushed back from injury because he is so important to every team he plays for.

I'm also beginning to think that Richie Gray is the Tom Croft of the next tour.

O'Connell is the standout candidate in my mind.

1. He played the best rugby of his life this year. Like all best locks he seems to have saved his best for his early thirties.
2. He visibly and very noticeably lifts the performance of both Munster or Ireland when he plays. Are there any more inspirational leaders in the squad?
3. Technically he's easily the best lineout specialist we have.
4. His biggest percieved weakness would be ball carrying, but this can be balanced by his Lions partner Richie Gray. They were born to play together for the Lions in my opinion.
5. It looks like the Lions will have bundles of young talent this time, but not that many grizzled old veterans like POC. The best teams have both.
6. It's no harm that he's captained the Lions before. He has experience of a nightmare tour in '05 and a largely positive (though narrowly losing) tour. Players of all nations praised him last time. And it really was a largely positive tour that restored the pride in the Lions jersey, despite the narrow defeat.
7. He's a physically imposing figure to lead the team out. The Aussie's normally give the Lions a hostile reception.
8. He gives great speeches.
9. He's ginger AND went bald. That's what makes him so angry.
10. Everyone should now agree with me and vote for POC.

Sin é wrote:I'm also beginning to think that Richie Gray is the Tom Croft of the next tour.

By that you mean the most hyped, but ultimately not the best? Whos better

rodders wrote:If he can sustain his current form and fitness then I can't see past BOD. Hes the only player who ticks all the boxes as I've mentioned elsewhere.

If he can't or if Gatland decides BOD doesn't fit his midfield plans then I think O'Connell is the next obvious choice, followed by Ford.

Three guys who've captained their country, toured before and beaten Australia. Guaranteed to start? I'd say most positions are touch and go at this stage with 2 or 3 very close in a lot of them....these 3 are as close as any...Best and Ford are very close though so that goes against Ford.

In terms of Welshmen AWJ, Jenkins and Ryan Jones would be dark horses but would Gatland elevate them above Warburton? I doubt it.

Warbs will likely start but I don't think he should captain but concentrate on his game without the added pressure of captaincy. Combating Pocock is enough responsibility.

Robshaw has done well for England but is he one of the best 2 flankers? No I don't think so. Again hasn't toured before.

BOD isn't a forward and Gatland likes his captains to be forwards. ROG said that when Gatty was Ireland coach, he had little or no time time for the Backs socially and would play cards, have a few pints with the Ireland forwards. You can see it in the Welsh team with the monster backs he selects.

kunu wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'm also beginning to think that Richie Gray is the Tom Croft of the next tour.

By that you mean the most hyped, but ultimately not the best? Whos better

He isn't the complete lock. His ball carrying is excellent, but as a 5'10" lock I'd like to see him performing better in the lineout. AWJ, POC, Leo Cullen & D Ryan are better than he is in that aspect of the game.

Sin é wrote:

kunu wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'm also beginning to think that Richie Gray is the Tom Croft of the next tour.

By that you mean the most hyped, but ultimately not the best? Whos better

He isn't the complete lock. His ball carrying is excellent, but as a 5'10" lock I'd like to see him performing better in the lineout. AWJ, POC, Leo Cullen & D Ryan are better than he is in that aspect of the game.

but in fairness at 5'10 he is limited in the line out.

Sin é wrote:

kunu wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'm also beginning to think that Richie Gray is the Tom Croft of the next tour.

By that you mean the most hyped, but ultimately not the best? Whos better

He isn't the complete lock. His ball carrying is excellent, but as a 5'10" lock I'd like to see him performing better in the lineout. AWJ, POC, Leo Cullen & D Ryan are better than he is in that aspect of the game.

That would make him very short for a modern day lock!!

Nevertheless, not sure what else you want to see from him in the lineout - he's a front jumper, very rarely gets beaten there on his own ball, and is supremely disruptive on oppo ball (throwing over 6'10" plus lift is pretty tricky for any hooker)

Its not an easy one

i thought O Connell was outplayed by Matfield and Botha the last time around in South Africa.

Sth Africa were taking the urine with their antics intimidating Lions players and the only person who stepped up to mix it with them was Drico all 5ft 9 of him. O Connell is still a great player but i am not convinced he is a great captain. His record for Ireland is not great.

I think Drico will be too long in tooth for it unfortunately at the back end of another punishing season

I presume Wilkinson was a joke. That ship surely must have sailed

At a push i went for Best as he is the closest to a guaranteed starter and a vastly improved player. Probably a bit too soon for Sexton and Gray though both will more than likely start

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Sin é wrote:

kunu wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'm also beginning to think that Richie Gray is the Tom Croft of the next tour.

By that you mean the most hyped, but ultimately not the best? Whos better

He isn't the complete lock. His ball carrying is excellent, but as a 5'10" lock I'd like to see him performing better in the lineout. AWJ, POC, Leo Cullen & D Ryan are better than he is in that aspect of the game.

That would make him very short for a modern day lock!!

Nevertheless, not sure what else you want to see from him in the lineout - he's a front jumper, very rarely gets beaten there on his own ball, and is supremely disruptive on oppo ball (throwing over 6'10" plus lift is pretty tricky for any hooker)

I'd be shocked if a 5'10' front jumper got beaten on his own ball as a front jumper (and I meant 5'10"). If he jumped further back, Scotland would have far better attacking ball.

And how disruptive is he? Leo Cullen (who I wouldn't rate as a top international lock) would win far more ball than Gray. Gray needs to sort out his primary functions first (lineout, scrum) before being rated as a world class lock.

Sin é wrote:

kunu wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'm also beginning to think that Richie Gray is the Tom Croft of the next tour.

By that you mean the most hyped, but ultimately not the best? Whos better

He isn't the complete lock. His ball carrying is excellent, but as a 5'10" lock I'd like to see him performing better in the lineout. AWJ, POC, Leo Cullen & D Ryan are better than he is in that aspect of the game.

Really! Think he did not lose one ball in the 6 nations, and disrupted more ball than any other lock (If I remember rightly)

I would say Ross Rennie at the moment is a sure starter. Certainly been playing a lot better than the injury plagued Warburton.

Last time a Scottish openside captained the Lions tour to Australia we won the series...... Thanks Finlay.

I thought Tom Croft had an excellent tour in 2009, he lived up to the hype as far as I’m concerned.

Riskysports wrote:

Sin é wrote:

kunu wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'm also beginning to think that Richie Gray is the Tom Croft of the next tour.

By that you mean the most hyped, but ultimately not the best? Whos better

He isn't the complete lock. His ball carrying is excellent, but as a 5'10" lock I'd like to see him performing better in the lineout. AWJ, POC, Leo Cullen & D Ryan are better than he is in that aspect of the game.

Really! Think he did not lose one ball in the 6 nations, and disrupted more ball than any other lock (If I remember rightly)

Don't think so. He may have won the most lineouts on his own ball though (19) which isn't great tbh as a front jumper - no attacking lineouts were attempted.

D Ryan who started two 6Ns games stole 4 lineouts (and also won all the ball that was thrown at him - 7 lineouts).

Riskysports wrote:

Sin é wrote:

kunu wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'm also beginning to think that Richie Gray is the Tom Croft of the next tour.

By that you mean the most hyped, but ultimately not the best? Whos better

He isn't the complete lock. His ball carrying is excellent, but as a 5'10" lock I'd like to see him performing better in the lineout. AWJ, POC, Leo Cullen & D Ryan are better than he is in that aspect of the game.

Really! Think he did not lose one ball in the 6 nations, and disrupted more ball than any other lock (If I remember rightly)

Correct, Risky, but why would Sin let the facts get in the way of his opinion!

Sin é wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

Sin é wrote:

kunu wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'm also beginning to think that Richie Gray is the Tom Croft of the next tour.

By that you mean the most hyped, but ultimately not the best? Whos better

He isn't the complete lock. His ball carrying is excellent, but as a 5'10" lock I'd like to see him performing better in the lineout. AWJ, POC, Leo Cullen & D Ryan are better than he is in that aspect of the game.

Really! Think he did not lose one ball in the 6 nations, and disrupted more ball than any other lock (If I remember rightly)

Don't think so. He may have won the most lineouts on his own ball though (19) which isn't great tbh as a front jumper - no attacking lineouts were attempted.

D Ryan who started two 6Ns games stole 4 lineouts (and also won all the ball that was thrown at him - 7 lineouts).

So more than anyone else? Give me strength

Sin é wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

Sin é wrote:

kunu wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'm also beginning to think that Richie Gray is the Tom Croft of the next tour.

By that you mean the most hyped, but ultimately not the best? Whos better

He isn't the complete lock. His ball carrying is excellent, but as a 5'10" lock I'd like to see him performing better in the lineout. AWJ, POC, Leo Cullen & D Ryan are better than he is in that aspect of the game.

Really! Think he did not lose one ball in the 6 nations, and disrupted more ball than any other lock (If I remember rightly)

Don't think so. He may have won the most lineouts on his own ball though (19) which isn't great tbh as a front jumper - no attacking lineouts were attempted.

D Ryan who started two 6Ns games stole 4 lineouts (and also won all the ball that was thrown at him - 7 lineouts).

That is pretty funny in fairness.

Henson

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

Sin é wrote:

kunu wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'm also beginning to think that Richie Gray is the Tom Croft of the next tour.

By that you mean the most hyped, but ultimately not the best? Whos better

He isn't the complete lock. His ball carrying is excellent, but as a 5'10" lock I'd like to see him performing better in the lineout. AWJ, POC, Leo Cullen & D Ryan are better than he is in that aspect of the game.

Really! Think he did not lose one ball in the 6 nations, and disrupted more ball than any other lock (If I remember rightly)

Don't think so. He may have won the most lineouts on his own ball though (19) which isn't great tbh as a front jumper - no attacking lineouts were attempted.

D Ryan who started two 6Ns games stole 4 lineouts (and also won all the ball that was thrown at him - 7 lineouts).

That is pretty funny in fairness.

Funny for Scotland's opposition - not so funny for Scotland fans. Scotland, the most predictable lineout in the world and easiest to defend.

At least they win their own ball. Something which Wales can't do for Poopie

scottish lineout has got the better of the irish lineout plenty of times over the last 2/3 years.

they were poor at the aviva this year though

gowales wrote:Henson

Couple of pints at lunch, was it gowales?

Sin, you talk industrial strength horseshoite sometimes pal!

Notch wrote:Sin, you talk industrial strength horseshoite sometimes pal!

Gas!!!!

Notch wrote:Sin, you talk industrial strength horseshoite sometimes pal!

Unfortunately, that doesn't prevent him!

anotherworldofpain wrote:

gowales wrote:Henson

Couple of pints at lunch, was it gowales?

Couldn't care less who the Lions captain is

Did you mean Gavin or Jim?

anotherworldofpain wrote:Did you mean Gavin or Jim?

Jim Henson - are you calling the Lions a bunch of Muppets?

dublin_dave wrote:scottish lineout has got the better of the irish lineout plenty of times over the last 2/3 years.

they were poor at the aviva this year though

Scotland were far more effective with Hamilton & Kellock as locks (and Hines as Blindside gave them another option).

Scotland got the better of Ireland once (2011) - and that was Gray's first start against Ireland. Since then, Ireland seem to have them figured out.

Interesting that in a tribute to Gray on youtube its all of him in the loose. There is one clip of him claiming a lineout (against France and it was a Scotland throw). If you look at a Vic Matfield tribute, you will see him soaring into the air stealing lineouts as well as doing all the other stuff.

Sin é wrote:

dublin_dave wrote:scottish lineout has got the better of the irish lineout plenty of times over the last 2/3 years.

they were poor at the aviva this year though

Scotland were far more effective with Hamilton & Kellock as locks (and Hines as Blindside gave them another option).

Scotland got the better of Ireland once (2011) - and that was Gray's first start against Ireland. Since then, Ireland seem to have them figured out.

Interesting that in a tribute to Gray on youtube its all of him in the loose. There is one clip of him claiming a lineout (against France and it was a Scotland throw). If you look at a Vic Matfield tribute, you will see him soaring into the air stealing lineouts as well as doing all the other stuff.

oh well if a tribute video only has one clip of him claiming a lightout ball he must rubbish. any clips of him scrummaging???

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:Did you mean Gavin or Jim?

Jim Henson - are you calling the Lions a bunch of Muppets?

I think gowales did.

Sin é wrote:

dublin_dave wrote:scottish lineout has got the better of the irish lineout plenty of times over the last 2/3 years.

they were poor at the aviva this year though

Scotland were far more effective with Hamilton & Kellock as locks (and Hines as Blindside gave them another option).

Scotland got the better of Ireland once (2011) - and that was Gray's first start against Ireland. Since then, Ireland seem to have them figured out.

Interesting that in a tribute to Gray on youtube its all of him in the loose. There is one clip of him claiming a lineout (against France and it was a Scotland throw). If you look at a Vic Matfield tribute, you will see him soaring into the air stealing lineouts as well as doing all the other stuff.

That's pretty funny in fairness.

I think the lineout clip was put there to help people realise that he is a lock and not a back I can't think of any other reason why you'd show someone claiming a lineout as front jumper on your own throw.

Matfield's lineouts feature when he is up against (and getting the better of) O'Connell

Sin é wrote:I think the lineout clip was put there to help people realise that he is a lock and not a back I can't think of any other reason why you'd show someone claiming a lineout as front jumper on your own throw.

Matfield's lineouts feature when he is up against (and getting the better of) O'Connell

did the matfield clip have him chip over someones head a collecting the ball before a try????

just because someone put together some compilation clip doesnt mean he is not a good lineout jumper

You do know Gray is only 22....... he'll learn about disrupting opposition lineouts with experience.

So Sin e, are you saying that Ryan should start for the Lions ahead of Gray?

if yes

caoimhincentre wrote:

Sin é wrote:I think the lineout clip was put there to help people realise that he is a lock and not a back I can't think of any other reason why you'd show someone claiming a lineout as front jumper on your own throw.

Matfield's lineouts feature when he is up against (and getting the better of) O'Connell

did the matfield clip have him chip over someones head a collecting the ball before a try????

just because someone put together some compilation clip doesnt mean he is not a good lineout jumper

If he is a good lineout jumper, why isn't he used more often for attacking ball and why isn't he winning more opposition ball?

because maybe the person making the clip didnt want to.

but if you want to base your evidence of Grey as a poor lineout option from a youtube clip that a random person made by all means continue arguing point.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:You do know Gray is only 22....... he'll learn about disrupting opposition lineouts with experience.

I'm sure he will, but he won't be world class until he does. He isn't a guaranteed starter for the Lions until he sorts that out as he would need to be paired with a more technical lineout operator and would be very dependent on how many ball carriers were in the team.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I went for Best.

BOD - I am not too sure he will make it to the Lions tour. He is getting on, and one injury this season may end him.
POC - more or less see above
Warburton - not too sure he is first choice Welsh openside at the moment, and again he is injury prone
AWJ - Good option, IMO should tour, but maybe not first choice
R Jones - IMO won't tour not a test starter for his nation, can't see how he would be a Lions starter
Robshaw - Not sure he would be a test starter over Ferris or Lydiate (or Denton maybe)
Hartley - I just don't like him
Best - he is a grafter and a dead cert to start
Ford - dount he will start
Heaslip - Again too much competition for his shirt from Denton, Morgan and Faleatay
Gray - Dead cert to start, maybe vice capt.
Sexton - Not too sure about him as a captain to be honest
Wilko- ppphhh why not put Gavin Henson down as well.

SS,

I went for best and agreed with you on most your other comments other than I think R Jones will tour (mid-week captain possibly) and also think if fit Sam is still our first choice No7 and will be for the Lions but this far out he's getting quite injury prone.

caoimhincentre wrote:

Sin é wrote:I think the lineout clip was put there to help people realise that he is a lock and not a back I can't think of any other reason why you'd show someone claiming a lineout as front jumper on your own throw.

Matfield's lineouts feature when he is up against (and getting the better of) O'Connell

did the matfield clip have him chip over someones head a collecting the ball before a try????

just because someone put together some compilation clip doesnt mean he is not a good lineout jumper

I only offered that as additional evidence as having looked at his lineout stats, for such a tall bloke, he isn't much use for attacking play in the lineout. Now, if you think that is unimportant, let me remind you that using attacking lineouts is how Ireland won their 2nd only Grand Slam.

Sin é wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:You do know Gray is only 22....... he'll learn about disrupting opposition lineouts with experience.

I'm sure he will, but he won't be world class until he does. He isn't a guaranteed starter for the Lions until he sorts that out as he would need to be paired with a more technical lineout operator and would be very dependent on how many ball carriers were in the team.

So what about Brad Thorn? He was pretty crap at winning front of the lineout ball, never mind stealing it from the opposition.

He's not world class according to your rules

gowales wrote:So Sin e, are you saying that Ryan should start for the Lions ahead of Gray?

if yes

Nope (though Ryan is a better all-round player).

Brad Thorn just used his will over the physcial world to compel the ball to go on the jumper he wanted to receive. He *did* win ALL of the lineouts, you see.

Sin é wrote:

caoimhincentre wrote:

Sin é wrote:I think the lineout clip was put there to help people realise that he is a lock and not a back I can't think of any other reason why you'd show someone claiming a lineout as front jumper on your own throw.

Matfield's lineouts feature when he is up against (and getting the better of) O'Connell

did the matfield clip have him chip over someones head a collecting the ball before a try????

just because someone put together some compilation clip doesnt mean he is not a good lineout jumper

I only offered that as additional evidence as having looked at his lineout stats, for such a tall bloke, he isn't much use for attacking play in the lineout. Now, if you think that is unimportant, let me remind you that using attacking lineouts is how Ireland won their 2nd only Grand Slam.

a youtube clip as additional evidence to what??? your opinion????

i never said it was unimportant. all i am saying is you are flat out wrong about grey.

Let me ask you this. If i say something and everyone say no you are wrong. am i right????