Will Wales/Ireland or Scotland ever make a RWC final?

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Will Wales/Ireland or Scotland ever make a RWC final?

IMO no.

But this is a discussion board so let’s discuss this intriguing subject.

The reason I said no is that I don't believe these three nations have the mental believe to take on the big boys in a KO competition like the RWC as it is a different type of pressure when compared to a domestic or euro cup.

Simple as that.

Discuss.

Well I disagree with you there sugarNspikes though I agree with your sentiment. I should've written what happened in the past is not necessarily what will follow in the future.

But history can indeed change. It depends very much on who writes the history. An example: the view of Vichy and occupied France. After WW2 De Gaulle wanted to depict France as a nation of resisters. Then that was debunked by various historians and documentaries for example like Marcel Ophuls depicted France as a nation of collaborators. Then that too was debunked and accommodation is now generally accepted as an apt term for the behavior of the majority of French people.

Still, I think you and I concur on the matter of having a pint. It's 35 in Madrid and it gets hottest around 5pm here.

HERSH wrote:But football in Spain is popular and always has been, so I agree, to say Spain would never win the World Cup is a silly statement.

The game in Scotland and Wales is dying, Ireland seems to be more interested in HC's, so I can honestly say that I can't see them winning or reaching a RWC Final, EVER!

come off it. i know you are wumming but a least put a bit of thought into it.

Football has always indeed been popular in Spain. As is Rugby in Ireland, Wales and Scotland so that was a silly comment to make.

Wales have just won a grandslam and reached the semi final in the WC.
Scotland are starting to have a resurgence.

As for Ireland being more interested in the HC.... arent two of the most success club sides in the history of the European/Champions league from Spain?? Who incedently won the world cup for the first time 2 years ago!!!!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Well I disagree with you there sugarNspikes though I agree with your sentiment. I should've written what happened in the past is not necessarily what will follow in the future.

But history can indeed change. It depends very much on who writes the history. An example: the view of Vichy and occupied France. After WW2 De Gaulle wanted to depict France as a nation of resisters. Then that was debunked by various historians and documentaries for example like Marcel Ophuls depicted France as a nation of collaborators. Then that too was debunked and accommodation is now generally accepted as an apt term for the behavior of the majority of French people.

Still, I think you and I concur on the matter of having a pint. It's 35 in Madrid and it gets hottest around 5pm here.

Hence my comment on revisionist historians

Apparently the UK will be getting a summer soon. About time too!

Ah right you are. I blame it on the heat.

I'd be more than glad to send a few degrees up to the UK. They're in the mail. In the meantime I'll stick to the lager and you stick to the ale.

Can we stop comparing Rugby to Football please!

Football is an easy game where by you could take 11 average players and using certain tactics make it hard for the other team to score.

It doesn't work in rugby, Ireland's golden generation has come and almost gone, Scotland will finish in the bottom two in the 2013 6 nations and Wales will soon have trouble replacing the front row and will struggle once again, as we all know Props are the most important players on the pitch.

I can’t see it happening.

HERSH wrote:But football in Spain is popular and always has been, so I agree, to say Spain would never win the World Cup is a silly statement.

The game in Scotland and Wales is dying, Ireland seems to be more interested in HC's, so I can honestly say that I can't see them winning or reaching a RWC Final, EVER!

I know I shouldn't bite here, but I'll ask you to justify why you think the game in Wales is dying?

HERSH wrote:Can we stop comparing Rugby to Football please!

Football is an easy game where by you could take 11 average players and using certain tactics make it hard for the other team to score.

It doesn't work in rugby, Ireland's golden generation has come and almost gone, Scotland will finish in the bottom two in the 2013 6 nations and Wales will soon have trouble replacing the front row and will struggle once again, as we all know Props are the most important players on the pitch.

I can’t see it happening.

Hey all i am doing is using it as an example. its not my fault you cant come up an intelligent response.
You seem to change your arguement all the time.
First Ireland concentrate too much on the HC. now its the same old golden Generation is gone. but lets just ignore the young players coming through.

Scotland will finish last??? how do you know this. they were the only team to win in the SH this summer. say what you want about conditions and teams they played they still won.

Wales will have trouble replacing props. are you saying that they will never ever have a good front row, that once Genkins and Jonas retire that they will all of a sudden stop producing props. Come off it man.

caoimhincentre wrote:

HERSH wrote:Can we stop comparing Rugby to Football please!

Football is an easy game where by you could take 11 average players and using certain tactics make it hard for the other team to score.

It doesn't work in rugby, Ireland's golden generation has come and almost gone, Scotland will finish in the bottom two in the 2013 6 nations and Wales will soon have trouble replacing the front row and will struggle once again, as we all know Props are the most important players on the pitch.

I can’t see it happening.

Hey all i am doing is using it as an example. its not my fault you cant come up an intelligent response.
You seem to change your arguement all the time.
First Ireland concentrate too much on the HC. now its the same old golden Generation is gone. but lets just ignore the young players coming through.

Scotland will finish last??? how do you know this. they were the only team to win in the SH this summer. say what you want about conditions and teams they played they still won.

Wales will have trouble replacing props. are you saying that they will never ever have a good front row, that once Genkins and Jonas retire that they will all of a sudden stop producing props. Come off it man.

Because people say this quite frequently, like when they beat Argentina in Argentina, Australia and South Africa in the Autumn internationals and yet nothing materialises. Until they have backs that can finish off a simple 2 on 1 they will never win, same with Italy.

sugarNspikes wrote:Everything that is going to happen is already decided.

Might as well have a pint

A pint that you were fated to have.

mowgli wrote:A classic example of a WUM post by an England fan.

The question most English fans should be concerned about is that with the current crop of players England have no chance of making the RWC final in 2015 and meeting their 'strategic objectives'

You are as bad as Hersh! Writing off England as Hersh is writing off the celtic nations.

Never is a very long time. No one can truly predict the future.

Of the three currently I would say Wales are the most likely to make a WC final but Scotland have a good pack (if they can get their backs firing, basically scoring tries then you never know.... If Ireland can emulate Leinster.....

It's mostly about belief. With Wales at the moment I believe they have the team to beat the SH sides but seem to falter when the win is near their grasp.

beshocked wrote:

mowgli wrote:A classic example of a WUM post by an England fan.

The question most English fans should be concerned about is that with the current crop of players England have no chance of making the RWC final in 2015 and meeting their 'strategic objectives'

You are as bad as Hersh! Writing off England as Hersh is writing off the celtic nations.

Never is a very long time. No one can truly predict the future.

Of the three currently I would say Wales are the most likely to make a WC final but Scotland have a good pack (if they can get their backs firing, basically scoring tries then you never know.... If Ireland can emulate Leinster.....

It's mostly about belief. With Wales at the moment I believe they have the team to beat the SH sides but seem to falter when the win is near their grasp.

I never said Scotland would finish last!
I said bottom two.

Also as many teams in the past and present have struggled if they can't replace their Props.

The game is dying in Wales, more and more youths play football on a Saturday and Sunday mornings and afternoons than Rugby F A C T!
This plus dwindling interest in the club game means the future isn't as bright as some would make you believe. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see a Celtic Nation getting to the RWC final anytime soon.

IMO!

The No's still have it overall!

HERSH wrote:The game is dying in Wales, more and more youths play football on a Saturday and Sunday mornings and afternoons than Rugby F A C T!
This plus dwindling interest in the club game means the future isn't as bright as some would make you believe. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see a Celtic Nation getting to the RWC final anytime soon.

IMO!

Back your football stats up with a link or official stats and I'll believe you. What dwindling interest is there in the club game?

Again, I know you're wumming, but just throwing out random sentences without justifying them doesn't do you many favours.

HERSH wrote:The game is dying in Wales, more and more youths play football on a Saturday and Sunday mornings and afternoons than Rugby F A C T!
This plus dwindling interest in the club game means the future isn't as bright as some would make you believe.

When will you be publishing the findings of this survey you've done, Hersh?

When a Celtic team reaches the RWC Final

I don't know if this is what people are looking for but

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/04/25/welsh-football-wants-level-playing-field-with-rugby-over-funding-55578-30840481/

HERSH wrote:When a Celtic team reaches the RWC Final

2015?

HERSH wrote:I never said Scotland would finish last!
I said bottom two.

Also as many teams in the past and present have struggled if they can't replace their Props.

The game is dying in Wales, more and more youths play football on a Saturday and Sunday mornings and afternoons than Rugby F A C T!
This plus dwindling interest in the club game means the future isn't as bright as some would make you believe. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see a Celtic Nation getting to the RWC final anytime soon.

IMO!

great. you should be able to back that statement up so.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:Everything that is going to happen is already decided.

Might as well have a pint

A pint that you were fated to have.

Indeed. In terms of I've given up trying to dodge fate

HERSH I've already told you that being in the 2015 RWC final is part of Wales' strategic plan. What is Englands new strategic plan? Poach more South Africans and Tuilagi's so they can get a decent team?

I'm sure reaching the 2015 RWC final is in the 'strategic plan' of plenty of national sides. It can only happen for two of them.

SubsBench wrote:

HERSH wrote:When a Celtic team reaches the RWC Final

2015?

Would you believe it, a pig just shat on me as I popped out for lunch ( ) !

Is that meant to be lucky?

Come on HERSH, the game is meant to be dieing in Wales and then a pig shats on you. Justify your comments or stop talking out of your behind!

It's not rocket science, drive around a few Welsh playing fields on a Saturday or Sunday all the kids are playing football.

The few who play rugby only do so as their parents have dragged them along to a game and won't buy them a football.

HERSH wrote:It's not rocket science, drive around a few Welsh playing fields on a Saturday or Sunday all the kids are playing football.

The few who play rugby only do so as their parents have dragged them along to a game and won't buy them a football.

so do you drive around Wales every saturday counting kids in soccer fields.

caoimhincentre wrote:

HERSH wrote:It's not rocket science, drive around a few Welsh playing fields on a Saturday or Sunday all the kids are playing football.

The few who play rugby only do so as their parents have dragged them along to a game and won't buy them a football.

so do you drive around Wales every saturday counting kids in soccer fields.

bluestonevedder wrote:

caoimhincentre wrote:

HERSH wrote:It's not rocket science, drive around a few Welsh playing fields on a Saturday or Sunday all the kids are playing football.

The few who play rugby only do so as their parents have dragged them along to a game and won't buy them a football.

so do you drive around Wales every saturday counting kids in soccer fields.

+ 1

HERSH wrote:It's not rocket science, drive around a few Welsh playing fields on a Saturday or Sunday all the kids are playing football.

The few who play rugby only do so as their parents have dragged them along to a game and won't buy them a football.

Another baffling statement, and I know you can't honestly be serious but; player numbers in Rugby have been on the increase for a few years now. New clubs are popping up, there are new development plans in place and schools may yet get a successful system back up and running. IF you look at the U20s from the past 4 years you will see that a lot of those players are stepping up to professional rugby. Heck, we must be doing something right. Also, we have a lot more props besides Jenkins and Jones. Football has been more popular for viewing and participation this whole time. I do not see how the game is going to death in Wales?

caoimhincentre wrote:

HERSH wrote:It's not rocket science, drive around a few Welsh playing fields on a Saturday or Sunday all the kids are playing football.

The few who play rugby only do so as their parents have dragged them along to a game and won't buy them a football.

so do you drive around Wales every saturday counting kids in soccer fields.

No, playing fields!

Anyway this isn't solely an article about Wales, why it's turned into one again I'll never know, don't you guys get board with blowing your own trumpets?

IMO Wales just blew their best chance of winning the RWC in 2011.

NZ, SA, AUS, FRA and Eng will all be stronger in 2015, so I see no reason why Wales are so confident of a RWC final appearance.

HERSH wrote:This isn't solely an article about Wales, why it's turned into one again I'll never know

You're a one, Hersh.

HERSH wrote:

caoimhincentre wrote:

HERSH wrote:It's not rocket science, drive around a few Welsh playing fields on a Saturday or Sunday all the kids are playing football.

The few who play rugby only do so as their parents have dragged them along to a game and won't buy them a football.

so do you drive around Wales every saturday counting kids in soccer fields.

No, playing fields!

Anyway this isn't solely an article about Wales, why it's turned into one again I'll never know, don't you guys get board with blowing your own trumpets?

IMO Wales just blew their best chance of winning the RWC in 2011.

NZ, SA, AUS, FRA and Eng will all be stronger in 2015, so I see no reason why Wales are so confident of a RWC final appearance.

Fair enough lets bring my country Ireland into it so. the game has never been stronger at underage level with playing numbers never has high.

this is also the first time you have brought the 2015 world cup into it too. wasnt your original article about how Celtic countries would never win the world cup full stop.

finally you repeating that it wouldnt happen with absolutely no evidence, proof or otherwise does not make your point in anyway valid, dispite the rubbish you come out with.

"drive around a few Welsh playing fields on a Saturday or Sunday all the kids are playing football." what a stupid statement to back up your arguement.

HERSH wrote:
Anyway this isn't solely an article about Wales, why it's turned into one again I'll never know, don't you guys get board with blowing your own trumpets?

Trumpet blowing, don't you usually jump on board that bandwagon? I'm bored now.

Why is it a silly statement?

It’s real, only a short time ago (5/10years) those kids would have been playing rugby, I used to do coaching sessions in Wales when I was playing for a well known club over there, but they stopped as kids wanted to play football.

As for 2015 it's the next one that Wales are going t win if you believe some of the people on this website, I didn't bring it up first by the way.

But IMO Wales won't reach the 2015 Final.

HERSH wrote:Why is it a silly statement?

It’s real, only a short time ago (5/10years) those kids would have been playing rugby, I used to do coaching sessions in Wales when I was playing for a well known club over there, but they stopped as kids wanted to play football.

As for 2015 it's the next one that Wales are going t win if you believe some of the people on this website, I didn't bring it up first by the way.

But IMO Wales won't reach the 2015 Final.

again you wrote this article saying no celtic nation would ever win the WC.

do you want to change the title to 2015. you would have a better chance of being right then

Some of what HERSH says is true, he doesn't say it very Tactfully though. Scotland have looked promising for years but have always seemed to struggle in the 6N, and although I'm not an Andy Robinson fan it is all about the small margins.

Lucky breaks either way against England and France and we would have won those matches. It's not excuses it's the truth. History shows we lost and it can't be changed now.

What has changed from a Scottish perspective is for the first time in 10 years we might just have the glimmers of a good attacking backline to compliment our Forwards who normally win their half of the battle on the rugby pitch. Laidlaw, Scott, Ansbro, Hogg, Visser and Jones can go on to form an attcking line that can cause teams problems. Couple that with the emergence of the likes of Gray, Rennie, Denton and other promising young Forwards Scottish fans for the first time have a right to be optimistic.

Setting the target of winning all our 6N home games will see us finish 3rd or 2nd. In the 6N. Should we beat England in the opening game and banish this monkey on our back of not winning in Twickers for 30 years we could by the rights be challenging for a Grand Slam in the Final match in Paris. Unlikely but not impossible. Any Englishman who watched the last game between Scotland and England will know the only differance was a mistake by Dan Parks between the 2 teams.

History points to us finishing in the bottom 2 of the 6N but history hasn't accounted for the resurgance we are seeing at the moment. Being the only Home nations team to come away with 3 wins from the SH is not to be laughed at.

caoimhincentre

I don't believe a Celtic nation will ever reach the RWC final let alone win one, so that does include Wales in the 2015 RWC.

Is that clear enough for you or should I explain it another way?

HERSH wrote:caoimhincentre

I don't believe a Celtic nation will ever reach the RWC final let alone win one, so that does include Wales in the 2015 RWC.

Is that clear enough for you or should I explain it another way?

ever ever???

Yes.

Your Nations are too small.

NZ is small but Rugby is in their blood.

HERSH wrote:Yes.

Your Nations are too small.

NZ is small but Rugby is in their blood.

That is something of a silly statement to make. Especially when you consider Wales made it further than England in the last RWC and are the current Grand Slam champions.

Even sillier when you consider that one of their best players was sent off (rightly or wrongly) and they still kept the game within a score in the semi final in question.

But did Wales make the final?

As I've already said 2011 was Wales best chance of getting to the final IMO.

HERSH wrote:Yes.

Your Nations are too small.

NZ is small but Rugby is in their blood.

if just tell everyone over here in ireland to forget about every other sport and to concentrate on rugby will you consider changing your mind about us.

if not i will tell everyone else just to pack it in a leave to you "big 5"

Please keep trying.

But I think you have all over looked something, I said IMO.

You're all welcome to believe what you like.

But IMO a Celtic nation will never make the RWC Final, Russia and USA will get there 1st.

Big 5.. lol

Big 5.... ROFL. Who's in this big 5?

HERSH wrote:Please keep trying.

But I think you have all over looked something, I said IMO.

You're all welcome to believe what you like.

But IMO a Celtic nation will never make the RWC Final, Russia and USA will get there 1st.

I think you are some rascal.
Dont you know this is just a bad wum
I just cant see it happening
Oh never has someone been as wrong
There i'm finished this rant

Why is it some people can't contribute in a sensible way

How disappointing.
You had a chance to argue you case and you resorted to insults.

So I take you're not a true Rugby fan then?

I would like Hersh to elaborate why he thinks Scotland will finish in the bottom 2 of the 6N.

P.S. Don't play the history card, it's boring and holds no weight in the discussion.

HERSH wrote:Why is it some people can't contribute in a sensible way

How disappointing.
You had a chance to argue you case and you resorted to insults.

So I take you're not a true Rugby fan then?

i dont know why you can't contribute sensibly. that is your issue i suppose.

I'd love to argue like Hersh - make up a few 'facts' to back up some ever changing statements and keep dodging and requests to back up these 'statements' and then crowing that he's right and Wales/Ireland/Scotland/France (delete as necassary) are terrible