The British and Irish Cup.

Latest news is the expansion to 32 teams. All 12 welsh premiership, 12 english championship, 4 irish province A sides and 4 scots teams will compete to reach the final.

Last years finalists Cross Keys and Munster A will look forward to this years Cup I am sure.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18848300

This was a great competition last season. Hard to say if expanding it is a good idea or not, but I like it.

My personal feeling is that it should be 4 Irish 'A' sides, 4 Welsh 'A' sides, 2 Scottish 'A' sides and the Championship sides,

However I think the Welsh prem teams would be better supported than 'A' sides would be.

Scotland I'm not so sure.

However it does make in more colourful.

But is it right to have semi-pro Welsh and Scottish teams up against fully Pro English and Pro Irish 'A' teams

I know they did well last year but, is it best for player development?

I quite liked the idea of the teams in the Welsh Prem having to qualify for it. It gave you something to aim for if you couldn’t quite make the play offs.

Why don't the Irish use their AIL teams? Surely it's unfair on the other teams if they are essentially using their pro A teams.

gowales wrote:Why don't the Irish use their AIL teams? Surely it's unfair on the other teams if they are essentially using their pro A teams.

I was wondering the same thing myself

gowales wrote:Why don't the Irish use their AIL teams? Surely it's unfair on the other teams if they are essentially using their pro A teams.

I agree with this also.
Wouldn't it just be easier to have 8 club sides from each of the 4 countries in a knock out competition, over 2 to 10 rounds depending on progression?

You put all the teams into a pot, and draw them at random (but 2 teams can't be from the same country, in round 1), then they play each other on a home and away basis, and knock each other out over 2 rounds on aggregate. Then whittle them down to just 2 teams.

Think AIL teams would struggle but we do have a bit of an unfair advantage. Think a rule like U-20/U-21 Munster guys should be the requirement if we're keeping the provinces in it.

Shifty wrote:

gowales wrote:Why don't the Irish use their AIL teams? Surely it's unfair on the other teams if they are essentially using their pro A teams.

I agree with this also.
Wouldn't it just be easier to have 8 club sides from each of the 4 countries in a knock out competition, over 2 to 10 rounds depending on progression?

You put all the teams into a pot, and draw them at random (but 2 teams can't be from the same country, in round 1), then they play each other on a home and away basis, and knock each other out over 2 rounds on aggregate. Then whittle them down to just 2 teams.

True

It is kind of nice to see the famous club names in the comp not modern professional names...!

Love to see teams like Blackrock or Garryowen miser in with Pontypridd, Melrose and Bedford.

Great comp.

I don't think the AIB teams are good enough, also it's not just the Irish 'A' teams that are professional, the 12 clubs from the Championship are as well.

The reson for Wales going regional was to concentrate the best players together to all avail of better coaching (rather than just the ones at the big clubs) to play and train with and against better players.

In my view the BandI cup should be the same, instead of having the Semi pro Welsh Prem and 4 Scottish teams would the quality of the tourament, not improve by using 6 pro 'A' teams?

Would it not better develop younger players to concentrate the best of them together to play and train with and against top players?

Mind you I would like to see Ballymena play some welsh clubs, but would Ulster release the Players registered with Ballymena for these games? I think maybe a couple of Ravens would be but Paddy Wallace wouldn't, unless we get to the final, like Pontypool and tovey last year.

Tovey played for Cross Keys who played Munster in their first ever final...!

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

gowales wrote:Why don't the Irish use their AIL teams? Surely it's unfair on the other teams if they are essentially using their pro A teams.

I was wondering the same thing myself

Kind of pointless for development to put in entirely amateur sides when there are loads of professional players in Ireland who don't get enough gametime.

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

gowales wrote:Why don't the Irish use their AIL teams? Surely it's unfair on the other teams if they are essentially using their pro A teams.

I was wondering the same thing myself

Kind of pointless for development to put in entirely amateur sides when there are loads of professional players in Ireland who don't get enough gametime.

The Irish sides certainly looked the part last season, Leinster and Munster.

I don't think it is a bad thing for Premiership sides from Wales and Scotland to play professional teams. Look at how well Cross Keys did, Ponty too.

The Irish teams had not dominated this competition previously, though with the verve and ambition last season replicated in this, they may well prove tough to beat.

maestegmafia wrote:

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

gowales wrote:Why don't the Irish use their AIL teams? Surely it's unfair on the other teams if they are essentially using their pro A teams.

I was wondering the same thing myself

Kind of pointless for development to put in entirely amateur sides when there are loads of professional players in Ireland who don't get enough gametime.

The Irish sides certainly looked the part last season, Leinster and Munster.

I don't think it is a bad thing for Premiership sides from Wales and Scotland to play professional teams. Look at how well Cross Keys did, Ponty too.

The Irish teams had not dominated this competition previously, though with the verve and ambition last season replicated in this, they may well prove tough to beat.

Eh, it's only 2 years old and and Irish side has won it once and made the final the other time...

Mickado wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

gowales wrote:Why don't the Irish use their AIL teams? Surely it's unfair on the other teams if they are essentially using their pro A teams.

I was wondering the same thing myself

Kind of pointless for development to put in entirely amateur sides when there are loads of professional players in Ireland who don't get enough gametime.

The Irish sides certainly looked the part last season, Leinster and Munster.

I don't think it is a bad thing for Premiership sides from Wales and Scotland to play professional teams. Look at how well Cross Keys did, Ponty too.

The Irish teams had not dominated this competition previously, though with the verve and ambition last season replicated in this, they may well prove tough to beat.

Eh, it's only 2 years old and and Irish side has won it once and made the final the other time...

Its 3 years old. Theres been two Irish finalists (Munster A both times), 3 English, 1 Welsh. So pretty even all considered, its only the Scots who have utterly failed to make an impact on the competition.
Noone actually watches it though do they

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Mickado wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

gowales wrote:Why don't the Irish use their AIL teams? Surely it's unfair on the other teams if they are essentially using their pro A teams.

I was wondering the same thing myself

Kind of pointless for development to put in entirely amateur sides when there are loads of professional players in Ireland who don't get enough gametime.

The Irish sides certainly looked the part last season, Leinster and Munster.

I don't think it is a bad thing for Premiership sides from Wales and Scotland to play professional teams. Look at how well Cross Keys did, Ponty too.

The Irish teams had not dominated this competition previously, though with the verve and ambition last season replicated in this, they may well prove tough to beat.

Eh, it's only 2 years old and and Irish side has won it once and made the final the other time...

Its 3 years old. Theres been two Irish finalists (Munster A both times), 3 English, 1 Welsh. So pretty even all considered, its only the Scots who have utterly failed to make an impact on the competition.
Noone actually watches it though do they

Irish teams 4 of the 12 semi finalists England 6/12 Welsh 2/12,
thats not a bad return for only entering 3 teams, 4 teams from this year on.

Think that maybe the Scots should be considering entering a Boarders team, best players in boarders area together. and maybe Glasgow and Edinburgh 'A' teams. Whatever happened to Geal Force?

maestegmafia wrote:Tovey played for Cross Keys who played Munster in their first ever final...!

Yeah, was more out of necessity because of Steffan Jones and Dean Gunter's injuries though.

I like the competition and it has done people like Kristian Baller and Gerwyn Price a favour by showing the Dragons that they could compete against pro teams. Next year will be good for Keys with them playing Newport twice in the group.

Irish teams again of the 5 finalists they could have got (6 normally but not last year in the q-final it was Munster A V Ravens, winner played Leinster A in semi final, meaning out of the 3 Irish teams it was ony possible to ever have one finalist).

Makes it 2 out of a possible 5 in the final, that again it a very good rate, added that we have had 4 out of a possible 8 semi finalists.
Maybe the Irish 'A' teams have an advantage, but again its up to others to improve themselves, to reach the same level.

Kingshu wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Mickado wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

gowales wrote:Why don't the Irish use their AIL teams? Surely it's unfair on the other teams if they are essentially using their pro A teams.

I was wondering the same thing myself

Kind of pointless for development to put in entirely amateur sides when there are loads of professional players in Ireland who don't get enough gametime.

The Irish sides certainly looked the part last season, Leinster and Munster.

I don't think it is a bad thing for Premiership sides from Wales and Scotland to play professional teams. Look at how well Cross Keys did, Ponty too.

The Irish teams had not dominated this competition previously, though with the verve and ambition last season replicated in this, they may well prove tough to beat.

Eh, it's only 2 years old and and Irish side has won it once and made the final the other time...

Its 3 years old. Theres been two Irish finalists (Munster A both times), 3 English, 1 Welsh. So pretty even all considered, its only the Scots who have utterly failed to make an impact on the competition.
Noone actually watches it though do they

Irish teams 4 of the 12 semi finalists England 6/12 Welsh 2/12,
thats not a bad return for only entering 3 teams, 4 teams from this year on.

Think that maybe the Scots should be considering entering a Boarders team, best players in boarders area together. and maybe Glasgow and Edinburgh 'A' teams. Whatever happened to Geal Force?

Kingshu, Gael force was intended to be drawn from Glasgow 'A', Edinburgh 'A' and the National academy, mainly cos neither pro-district had big enough squads to enter their own 'A' teams, and entering the babies on their own could have been carnage. The idea was dropped after the first year of the comp. Instead the top 3 teams from the Scottish prem are sent, altho none of them appear to take it that seriously - these sides are semi-pro, unlike the Irish and English teams, I think. I believe that Ayr went furthest, getting to a quarter-final the year before last. I can't see the Border teams wanting to club together either.