Springboks vs Pumas: Team announcements and match thread.

[Biltong]

First topic message reminder :

Argentinian team news.

Former Stade Francais veteran Roncero, 35, will be winning his 50th cap as he looks to bring down the curtain on his career with this tournament.

Ten of the starters played in the World Cup quarter-final loss to New Zealand and eight play in France’s Top 14 league.

Racing-Metro fly half Juan Martin Hernandez, who missed the World Cup through injury, will be back as will third rower Juan Fernandez Lobbe, who succeeds dropped Felipe Contepomi as skipper.

Argentina, making their debut in the Southern Hemisphere tournament formerly known as the Tri-Nations, will then go up against Australia and New Zealand.

Argentina team to play South Africa at Newlands in Cape Town Saturday in first round of inaugural Rugby Championship (formerly Tri-Nations):

 

Team:

15 Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino, 14 Gonzalo Camacho, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Santiago Fernandez, 11 Horacio Agulla, 10 Juan Martin Hernandez, 9 Nicolas Vergallo, 8 Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe (Captain), 7 Alvaro Galindo, 6 Julio Farias Cabello, 5 Patricio Albacete, 4 Manuel Carizza, 3 Juan Figallo, 2 Eusebio Guinazu, 1 Rodrigo Roncero

Replacements: 16 Bruno Postiglioni, 17 Marcos Ayerza, 18 Juan Pablo Orlandi, 19 Tomas Leonardi, 20 Leonardo Senatore, 21 Martin Landajo, 22 Martin Rodriguez

Springbok team to be announced.
The 25-year-old Steyn, who made his Test debut against Ireland in 2006, will become the 23rd player to reach 50 Test caps for South Africa. He is back at inside centre after missing the third England Test in June because of his own wedding.

Apart from Steyn’s return, two Springboks who have yet to feature this year are also back.

They are lock Andries Bekker and Lwazi Mvovo. Mvovo takes over from the injured JP Pietersen at right wing while Bekker replaces Juandré Kruger in the middle row for his first Test in more than two years.

Keegan Daniel will start his first Test for South Africa and comes in at No 8 for the injured Pierre Spies.

In the only other changes from the team that played England in Port Elizabeth, Willem Alberts returns to flank in the place of Jacques Potgieter, who is on the bench, while Zane Kirchner is back at fullback for Gio Aplon.

In total there are five changes from the team that started in Port Elizabeth. The Springbok team has a combined total of 432 Test caps for this Test – 157 amongst the forwards and 275 for the backs.

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer decided to stick with combinations for the Test against Argentina – the front row and loose forwards are from The Sharks, the locks play together for the DHL Stormers and the halfbacks are from the Vodacom Bulls.

“We’ve now been together for the June Tests and have had a good week to prepare, but we are still rather new as a team and it’s good that the players know each other,” said Meyer.

“Andries was always in our plans and it was a setback to lose him in June, while Lwazi has been impressive this year and I know he can fill the huge boots of JP. We’re still a young team when it comes to experience, but this is Test rugby and there is no place to hide.

“The players have been working very hard on the training field and we now need to translate that to the Test. Argentina will be fired up as they are making their debut in The Castle Rugby Championship and we know they will be a tough opponent on Saturday.”

There are two players on the bench that will be making their debut should they get game time – prop Pat Cilliers and utility back JJ Engelbrecht. Pat Lambie is also back on the bench after missing the Test in Port Elizabeth because of an ankle injury.

“We decided to go for these two because of their utility value – Pat Cilliers can scrum on both sides and JJ covers outside centre and wing, which JP Pietersen used to do for us,” said Meyer.

The Springbok team to face Argentina in Cape Town is:

15. Zane Kirchner (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 15 caps
14. Lwazi Mvovo (The Sharks) 4 caps
13. Jean de Villiers (captain, DHL Western Province) 75 caps
12. Frans Steyn (The Sharks) 49 caps
11. Bryan Habana (DHL Western Province) 77 caps
10. Morné Steyn (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 37 caps
9. Francois Hougaard (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 18 caps
8. Keegan Daniel (The Sharks) 3 caps
7. Willem Alberts (The Sharks) 11 caps
6. Marcell Coetzee (The Sharks) 3 caps
5. Andries Bekker (DHL Western Province) 24 caps
4. Eben Etzebeth (DHL Western Province) 3 caps
3. Jannie du Plessis (The Sharks) 33 caps
2. Bismarck du Plessis (vice-captain, The Sharks) 45 caps
1. Tendai Mtawarira (The Sharks) 35 caps
Replacements
16. Adriaan Strauss (Toyota FS Cheetahs) 12 caps
17. Pat Cilliers (MTN Golden Lions) uncapped
18. Flip van der Merwe (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 14 caps
19. Jacques Potgieter (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 1 cap
20. Ruan Pienaar (Ulster, Northern Ireland) 54 caps
21. Pat Lambie (The Sharks) 13 caps
22. JJ Engelbrecht (Vodacom Blue Bulls) uncapped

[GunsGerms]

..yes it has been a unusually timid performance from the Boks.

[mckay1402]

miss it miss it miss it miss it miss it!!!

[Taylorman]

Two steyn misses under pressure? Won't be the last time this year either.

[Taylorman]

Right. Five to go. Can the draw be decided?

[ChequeredJersey]

SA's breakdown work has been very exploitable against us and then again against Arg last week. They are missing a lot of first choice backrowers though, including Brussouw

[disneychilly]

Biltong mate I understand why you're not posting much at the mo! Was in the same boat in June!

[GunsGerms]

BAd call Walsh. SA collapse the mall then in from the side and they get the scrum?

[GunsGerms]

Watch the beast on this scrum.

[ChequeredJersey]

Does he cheat?

[mckay1402]

By the way I would like to state that I don't have anything against SA. I always go for the underdog when I'm a neutral.

[GunsGerms]

Think AG should have won that one.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Argentina a bit unfortunate to not come away with the win there, but decent fightback by SA in the end.

[GunsGerms]

Does he cheat?

Actually he didnt do anything at that one but he appeared to bore in in the one before as it collapsed.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Great result for arg , well done.

[disneychilly]

Well done Argentina. Almost the perfect way to start at home. The cat is already amongst the pigeons.

[Mr Fishpaste]

Meh! Argentina probably deserved to win that. The Boks were flat. I'm beginning to entertain serious doubt about Heyneke!!

[Taylorman]

Well a charge down try was all that kept SA in this. M Steyn missing two easy kicks for his standard.

Everything that's been said about SA not evolving since 2010 was reflected on this match.

But well done Argie, your climb up the rankings to the top four has begun.

[majesticimperialman]

Well in my opinion SA was very lucky to come away with a draw to day.

A very lucky charge down by Frans Styne, gave the spring boks the draw, but you have to ask did they deserve to come away with a draw?

The answer in my opinion is NO, they did not deserve to get a draw today.

Argentina the better of the two teams today.

[sugarNspikes]

Shame Argentina didn't quite win that. They deserved it.

SA played the wrong game against them. Mind you, I'm not sure they are adaptable enough anyway.

[Taylorman]

Jdv is the consumate professional as captain. Delivers his speech as though a 3rd party in this. No emotion or upset at the loss even though SA fans will be gutted. 'Oh well...' was all I heard

[wales606]

South Africa bit lucky to get the draw in the end.

A chargedown and then Argentina decided to settle for the draw or throw away the game with a ridiculous kicking game.

Bit disappointed Argentina didn't try harder in the last 10 minutes.

[anotherworldofpain]

Jdv is the consumate professional as captain. Delivers his speech as though a 3rd party in this. No emotion or upset at the loss even though SA fans will be gutted. 'Oh well...' was all I heard

Loss? Did you watch a different match to me?

[offload]

I only saw the last 30 minutes, but it was certainly entertaining. When it went to 16 all I thought Agentina closed up too much and should have pushed on. They almost kicked as much ball away as the Aussies!

It's all about second place anyway, NZ are way ahead, although I'm looking forward to them visiting SA as that should be a good encounter.

[anotherworldofpain]

NZ will struggle in ARG, they always do. That will level up things a bit. But it play to their hand that SA face ARG first. There is no way ARG can keep playing on emotion like that, and to another thing they don't have the depth to last in a long competition like this with high intensity every week. My grandfather is younger than Roncero and he can't even watch the entire competition without getting a injury.

[Taylorman]

I agree we could struggle in Arg. Everything points to that. SA did, we always do, and we struggled with them in the Wcup.

So I'm glad my post a few weeks ago was proved wrong. Arg have been at least as competitive as SA and although NZ is likely to win this bar upsets there is definitely a three rather than two horse race on for second.

Argentina have just added some real spice to this tournament.

Well done Argies

[doctor_grey]

I agree we could struggle in Arg. Everything points to that. SA did, we always do, and we struggled with them in the Wcup.

So I'm glad my post a few weeks ago was proved wrong. Arg have been at least as competitive as SA and although NZ is likely to win this bar upsets there is definitely a three rather than two horse race on for second.

Argentina have just added some real spice to this tournament.

Well done Argies

Just back from the pub watching the match. Taylor, you just wrote exactly what I was going to write. Agree 100%. And if not for the chargedown??????

[Taylorman]

Hi doc. Yeah it was an interesting game. Its just another example of SA not being inventive or creative enough. Someone just has to get in there and show them how to attack properly.

Almost every test SA has had last three years against the top sides has been close. The either win narrowly or lose, some by big scores.

The forward based domination approach ...is...a... myth. Teams will just not dominate this way anymore.

You must maximise the scoring or attacking potential of every single position- 1-15.

[anotherworldofpain]

I think it is some weird part of SA psyche. They think they have to be, and are bigger and stronger than everyone else. And is not true anymore. They need to find a new way. There is a lot of talent if you watch the Currie cup. But they keep chosing the Neanderthals for the Springboks.

What was Meyer's plan for Argentina? Pick a big intimidating back row. Yawn. No one was impressed. Argentina weren't intimidated, and in fact won the physical battle.

[doctor_grey]

Taylor,
The Boks were certainly very one-dimensional. I thought when Pienaar came on there was a little more energy and speed in their play. A little of what they need from the openning kickoff and not at the end.

Your point about playing a forward based approach hits home a little (as an England supporter) but is spot on. Its funny, actually, because this is the difference between the Bulls and the Sharks. Both teams have strong forwards, but Sharks mix it up and play some attacking Rugby as part of their game plan. It seems for the Bulls (and Meyer?) it is the last resort.

[Argie fan]

I agree we could struggle in Arg. Everything points to that. SA did, we always do, and we struggled with them in the Wcup.
So I'm glad my post a few weeks ago was proved wrong. Arg have been at least as competitive as SA and although NZ is likely to win this bar upsets there is definitely a three rather than two horse race on for second.
Argentina have just added some real spice to this tournament.
Well done Argies

Taylorman wrote:
Struggle...

Is the only word that can be used for the Pumas in the upcoming Rugby Championship.

Now the tours downunder its only weeks away until the next tournament in our zone.

For the record...
Since the professional era this is the record against the 3 SH sides:

-Played 28, won 1 (beat Aus 18-16 in 1997) for a 3.6% win rate.
-Average score of 41-17 with 5 tries to 2 scored.

In the same period they have 40 wins from 84 matches against 6N sides at 47.6%.
Notable wins since 2011 over France, Scotland and Italy.

Hardly the credentials to suggest a chance in this championship. Given the other 3 will see this match as must win for any hopes of the title Argentina are in for a torrid time in whats simply the toughest in Rugby to win where NO match is easy...until now.

Taylormen, Do you remember my answer?

Quoting you

Wrong......

Is the only word that can be used with you.

Puma's history against the 3 SH sides:

Pumas vs Au: 4 win / 12 lost / 1 even
Pumas vs SA: 1 win / 13 lost / 1 even
Pumas vs NZ: 0 win / 12 lost / 1 even. Does not look very impressive. But how many teams (out of 2HS and 6n) win over they? NONE!

Puma's history against the 6N sides:

Pumas vs Scotland: 11 win / 5 lost / 0 even
Pumas vs France: 12 win / 33 lost / 1 even
Pumas vs Ireland: 7 win / 9 lost / 1 even
Pumas vs England: 4 win / 10 lost / 2 even
Pumas vs Wales: 4 win / 8 lost / 1 even
Pumas vs Italy: 11 win / 5 lost / 1 even

Now, of course, Pumas has a very little chance against the 3 bigs, but, What other team has a better chance?

Just tell me a team (out of 3 bigs and out of 6n) with better performance than the Pumas.

Facts:
How many teams (not 3N or 6N) have reached the semi-finals in a RWC? ONE! just ONE! The answer: Pumas
How many teams (not 3N or 6N) finish third in a RWC? Again ONE! just ONE!. The answer: Pumas
More, How many times Italy, Ireland and Scotland finish third in a RWC? NEVER! Repeat NEVER!
How many teams (not 3N or 6N) won to other 3 (6N) teams in a RWC? Again ONE! just ONE!. Pumas won France (twice), Ireland and Scotland in 2007 WRC.
If you want to expand the 3n to 4n, there aren't a team with better history performance that Pumas.
These are facts, not wrong opinions.
Jast tell us, with strong arguments, What team has a better record than the Pumass to be the fourth team in the tournament?
Thank you.

Argie fan

I told you so.
Wrong, you were wrong.

[aucklandlaurie]

NZ will struggle in ARG, they always do. That will level up things a bit. But it play to their hand that SA face ARG first. There is no way ARG can keep playing on emotion like that, and to another thing they don't have the depth to last in a long competition like this with high intensity every week. My grandfather is younger than Roncero and he can't even watch the entire competition without getting a injury.

Too true,Without a couple of get out of jail cards we (NZ) could have lost in Argentina, any number of times.

[Taylorman]

The start has certainly been good for argie so far. They've got four tough ones left and these will be against significantly different sides. Ones who like to use the ball.

Adaptability and the ability to sustain the campaign are the next two tests so its not all roses yet argie. Hernandez is out so far. Did they all come through this ok?

[Taylorman]

No doubt biltong will be putting some time in on this match so his analysis will be interesting. I'm guessing Graham Henry has left a sprinkling of his influence on this match and that will likely have been to defend first and formost and second compete at every contact and argie did both of these very well.

He mentioned after last weeks match that if argie knew how to attack and score tries they would be that much stronger.

Attacking, making breaks, creating space and time is a highly developed culture that simply doesn't come overnight.

Its part of the nz game at its fundamental grassroots level. For two reasons...first and formost..because its fun. Secondly because it is the most potent weapon a team can win matches with.

Many think NZ are stupid for chucking the ball around, dropping passes. Point is, for every ten or so stupid dropped passes, a try gets scored.

[TJ1]

All we can say really is "well done Argentina" They played the right game plan and played it well and have shown that although they might not be challenging to win the 4N this year they will be competitive

[Taylorman]

Its still early days. We don't really know how good this SA side really is.
Reality will hit argie in two weeks when they play NZ at Wellington. They have to travel. They've shown enough to ensure the ABs won't be complacent but this AB side is also on the incline.

Were their any injuries from the match?

[TJ1]

Why does Argentina ( and other south american countries) play rugby? How did it get there?

[mystiroakey]

Ex pats. Argentina has alot of brits that emigrated(i think alot of welsh actually- to certain areas) and they just played it, and it caught on

[TJ1]

The welsh immigration was mainly mid / late 19th century. Did they really take rugby with them? I don't know. google here I come. Edit: thats it according to google / wiki.

[mystiroakey]

it wasnt just welsh actually it was probally more english- but yes thats how rugby started- the lions would tour to these ex pat teams, and it has slowly caught on through then

[mystiroakey]

google argentinia rugby team and it explains that it was british immigration that brought the game to them

[TJ1]

Ta

[HammerofThunor]

A lot of Italian immigration over there as a well. Which is why so many Argentinian born players qualify for Italy. And why a fair few Argentinian players have Italian surnames. I have heard something about Irish Missionaries taking it over.

[anotherworldofpain]

Taylor,
The Boks were certainly very one-dimensional. I thought when Pienaar came on there was a little more energy and speed in their play. A little of what they need from the openning kickoff and not at the end.

Your point about playing a forward based approach hits home a little (as an England supporter) but is spot on. Its funny, actually, because this is the difference between the Bulls and the Sharks. Both teams have strong forwards, but Sharks mix it up and play some attacking Rugby as part of their game plan. It seems for the Bulls (and Meyer?) it is the last resort.

Sadly the bulls beat the sharks just before kick off of the game by playing the pressure and territory game. So internally the focus still works.

[formerly known as Sam]

I thought SA were lucky to get the draw out of that, Argentina really should have done better on a couple of lineouts close to the Bok line and must be more clinical with thier 3 pointers.

I think the ABs will have to much for the Pumas (particularly at the breakdown) but I think the Wallabies will be watching the men in blue and white nervously.

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