Springboks vs Pumas: Team announcements and match thread.

[Biltong]

First topic message reminder :

Argentinian team news.

Former Stade Francais veteran Roncero, 35, will be winning his 50th cap as he looks to bring down the curtain on his career with this tournament.

Ten of the starters played in the World Cup quarter-final loss to New Zealand and eight play in France’s Top 14 league.

Racing-Metro fly half Juan Martin Hernandez, who missed the World Cup through injury, will be back as will third rower Juan Fernandez Lobbe, who succeeds dropped Felipe Contepomi as skipper.

Argentina, making their debut in the Southern Hemisphere tournament formerly known as the Tri-Nations, will then go up against Australia and New Zealand.

Argentina team to play South Africa at Newlands in Cape Town Saturday in first round of inaugural Rugby Championship (formerly Tri-Nations):

 

Team:

15 Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino, 14 Gonzalo Camacho, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Santiago Fernandez, 11 Horacio Agulla, 10 Juan Martin Hernandez, 9 Nicolas Vergallo, 8 Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe (Captain), 7 Alvaro Galindo, 6 Julio Farias Cabello, 5 Patricio Albacete, 4 Manuel Carizza, 3 Juan Figallo, 2 Eusebio Guinazu, 1 Rodrigo Roncero

Replacements: 16 Bruno Postiglioni, 17 Marcos Ayerza, 18 Juan Pablo Orlandi, 19 Tomas Leonardi, 20 Leonardo Senatore, 21 Martin Landajo, 22 Martin Rodriguez

Springbok team to be announced.
The 25-year-old Steyn, who made his Test debut against Ireland in 2006, will become the 23rd player to reach 50 Test caps for South Africa. He is back at inside centre after missing the third England Test in June because of his own wedding.

Apart from Steyn’s return, two Springboks who have yet to feature this year are also back.

They are lock Andries Bekker and Lwazi Mvovo. Mvovo takes over from the injured JP Pietersen at right wing while Bekker replaces Juandré Kruger in the middle row for his first Test in more than two years.

Keegan Daniel will start his first Test for South Africa and comes in at No 8 for the injured Pierre Spies.

In the only other changes from the team that played England in Port Elizabeth, Willem Alberts returns to flank in the place of Jacques Potgieter, who is on the bench, while Zane Kirchner is back at fullback for Gio Aplon.

In total there are five changes from the team that started in Port Elizabeth. The Springbok team has a combined total of 432 Test caps for this Test – 157 amongst the forwards and 275 for the backs.

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer decided to stick with combinations for the Test against Argentina – the front row and loose forwards are from The Sharks, the locks play together for the DHL Stormers and the halfbacks are from the Vodacom Bulls.

“We’ve now been together for the June Tests and have had a good week to prepare, but we are still rather new as a team and it’s good that the players know each other,” said Meyer.

“Andries was always in our plans and it was a setback to lose him in June, while Lwazi has been impressive this year and I know he can fill the huge boots of JP. We’re still a young team when it comes to experience, but this is Test rugby and there is no place to hide.

“The players have been working very hard on the training field and we now need to translate that to the Test. Argentina will be fired up as they are making their debut in The Castle Rugby Championship and we know they will be a tough opponent on Saturday.”

There are two players on the bench that will be making their debut should they get game time – prop Pat Cilliers and utility back JJ Engelbrecht. Pat Lambie is also back on the bench after missing the Test in Port Elizabeth because of an ankle injury.

“We decided to go for these two because of their utility value – Pat Cilliers can scrum on both sides and JJ covers outside centre and wing, which JP Pietersen used to do for us,” said Meyer.

The Springbok team to face Argentina in Cape Town is:

15. Zane Kirchner (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 15 caps
14. Lwazi Mvovo (The Sharks) 4 caps
13. Jean de Villiers (captain, DHL Western Province) 75 caps
12. Frans Steyn (The Sharks) 49 caps
11. Bryan Habana (DHL Western Province) 77 caps
10. Morné Steyn (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 37 caps
9. Francois Hougaard (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 18 caps
8. Keegan Daniel (The Sharks) 3 caps
7. Willem Alberts (The Sharks) 11 caps
6. Marcell Coetzee (The Sharks) 3 caps
5. Andries Bekker (DHL Western Province) 24 caps
4. Eben Etzebeth (DHL Western Province) 3 caps
3. Jannie du Plessis (The Sharks) 33 caps
2. Bismarck du Plessis (vice-captain, The Sharks) 45 caps
1. Tendai Mtawarira (The Sharks) 35 caps
Replacements
16. Adriaan Strauss (Toyota FS Cheetahs) 12 caps
17. Pat Cilliers (MTN Golden Lions) uncapped
18. Flip van der Merwe (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 14 caps
19. Jacques Potgieter (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 1 cap
20. Ruan Pienaar (Ulster, Northern Ireland) 54 caps
21. Pat Lambie (The Sharks) 13 caps
22. JJ Engelbrecht (Vodacom Blue Bulls) uncapped

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Do you wish you were facing Australia first up after that performance Biltong?

A 5 point win would be ideal but will the Boks be rusty as well as much as NZ and Australia seemed to me. The Argentinian team seems to have the advantage of not being involved in the Super XV. They are an unknown. Playing in SA is tough (when was the last time they played there?) but it's going to be interesting to see where they're at. I think their tactics will be clear so I'm looking forward to seeing how the Bok forwards stand up to the Argentinian pack. As good as yardstick as you can get to test their mettle.

[Biltong]

Haha, Kia I was thinking during the match why don't they ever play like that against us.

[OzT]

Haha, Kia I was thinking during the match why don't they ever play like that against us.

.... cause your coach haven't always sent the best possible side out, resting the players I think it was...

[Biltong]

Haha, Kia I was thinking during the match why don't they ever play like that against us.

.... cause your coach haven't always sent the best possible side out, resting the players I think it was...

That isn't helping mate, now I feel even worse with a slight tinge of anger for good measure.

[OzT]

Wasn't meant to wind you up mate.... well not much anyway.. LOL!!!

Well your game's starting in about 20 minutes, good luck, not that you'll need it, your guys will walk it.

Looking forward to what combinations comes out of this game

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Amazing the way the Argentinian pundit described what the Pumas must be feeling at the moment. I amn't even remotely Argentinian and that made me feel very proud of them

[Galted]

Morne Steyn seems to be getting back to his best.

[Biltong]

We will rue the fact that we didn't score 4 tries.

J de Villiers just doesn't believe in drawing his man and then passing, it is $&@$ frustrating to say the least.

[gowales]

Jonathan Davies

[kingelderfield]

Argintina gave a good account of themselves and will take a lot of confidence going into next week.

South Africa appear to me to be travelling toward a tactical deadend. They have a treasure trove of talented players but play such a negative combative game. There is the talent there to be so much more sophisticated/inteligent = to much kicking......

[Biltong]

Not sure I entirely agree with you, our problem today lay in the fact that twie JDV ran until he got tackled and got penalised both times for holding on when he got isolated.

Then late in the second half our option was to attack left and we went right.

All three those occasions we had overlaps.

[Mr Fishpaste]

We will rue the fact that we didn't score 4 tries.

J de Villiers just doesn't believe in drawing his man and then passing, it is $&@$ frustrating to say the least.

Agreed. There were at least two fairly clear try opportunities that went awry because JdV decided to take contact rather than pass to Mvovo (who is much faster, and on both occassions was unmarked!). And worse: in both instances JDV lost the ball!!!!

Morne, wasn't too bad. At least he was playing at his usual standard (rather than his recent below-par performances)
Frans was abit absent
Ruan Pienaar is, I feel, better than Hougaard right now. He gets the game moving forward at a much faster pace...
Strauss played well. Thank goodness we have him as back up to Bismarck.

Argentina, were more competivie than the score-line suggested. A bit more exposure at this level, and they'll start becoming more of a challenge...

[emack2]

Expected win achieved,Biltong no bonus point,how bad is Bismarck Du plessis?
New Loose forward discovered apparently.All Blacks should be worried your scoring tries?

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Let's be honest, no one gives Argentina much chance away for the first few years. But they're at home next week and probably have more to learn and improve on from this game than the Boks. The Boks have to make sure that they turn up mentally and not underestimate what Argentina are capable of delivering at home.

JDV is captain so won't be going anywhere soon, which is a problem as distribution to the wings is what's needed and he's not that type of player. If Meyer insists on playing him I'd rather see him at 12 than at 13. But it won't happen. I'm not sure Morné Steyn's solid performance is a good thing. Probably nailed on starter for Australia and NZ now...

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I think JDV just made a few bad decisions which in all fairness to him he doesn't do very often. His opposite number however IMO was the worst player on the pitch and should have been exploited.

Steyn (Morne) for me is the big weak link. He moved better today than he has in ages and he is undoubtedly a fantastic kicker of the ball but even when he is moving well and being creative (semi) he is so far below par in that regard compared to other international 10's.

What ever about the philosophy of "we'll bash it up and keep it tight, kick for territory in the first 55mins" which is all well and good but I think having a guy who can add pace and unpredictability to the game later when forwards are getting tired. I think it is very naive of S.Africa not to use this as a tactic. A guy like Lambie coming on at 10 could be a nightmare for fringe defenders who have been rucking, tackling and scrummaging for the last 55minutes.

[emack2]

Hi Pete the old subdue and penetrate bit mever really workedeven when it was 15 aside.Today you just bring on fresh legs to and its stalemate again.

[Biltong]

Pete Steyn isn't creative, no need to be polite. He is like a metronome with no original thought in his bones.

He runs, he kicks, he passes and he tackles, but he doesn't do anything special. OK, I'll grant to him his cross kick for Habana's try was very accurate.

[Hound_of_Harrow]

Biltong - I posted this in the 'pub' but no one's around, so I'll stick it on here.

"Argentina are not being disgraced, but are trying to force things too much. Lot's of unforced errors and offences at the ruck. Walsh is reffing them with a certain amount of leniency I feel.

I don't know whether that's just Walsh, or whether refs have been told to 'go easy' on Argentina in their first season in the competition. Any other team would have had two men in the bin."

I would think most SA fans were not happy with that game. Argentina have been in training camp since early July and, although limited in attack, were no pushovers as many predicted (even Contepomi).

Still, a win is a win and SA are top after round 1. More to come from you guys; especially if Meyer picks Lambie at 10 when he's fit.


I also feel there's heaps more to come from NZ though. They really should have put Oz away today, but credit to Oz - they hung in. I bet many NZ fans were apprehensive when Oz got back to within 5 with not long to go.

Lots for the coaching teams of all four teams to work on.

[Biltong]

Evening Hound, yeah SA in a way had a strange performance today.

They always seemed in control, but we expected that, but I was looking for more, perhaps it was the killer instinct, perhaps it was better execution, or perhaps it was more from the two Steyns, Meyer will know his team has to step it up, Bismarck is out for the rest of the competition, Keegan Daniel disappeared today, I can't think of anything he did today apart from one lineout win.

We didn't look to offload at all.

We will miss JP Pietersen, Burger and Bismarck and in my view that will be our shortcoming.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Players like morne steyn are so predictable I feel and by Assisiciation the midfield becomes pretty static too. The fact that so few saffa players run switches off morne is testament to how little attacking he does. When was the last time s.Africa were seen using loops and loop variations more than 'every so often'.

With a creative 10 you guys could be really, really good.

[Hound_of_Harrow]

That' s a shame about Bismarck du Plessis. JPP is a big loss too.

But I look at the SA backs out wide and think why doesn't Meyer look to get them into the game more?

[kiakahaaotearoa]

I sure as hell was nervous Hound of Harrow.

SA will be disappointed they didn't get a bonus point mainly because they had opportunities to get it. But the key for me is what happens next week. Argentina will be better off for the experience and will be under no pressure.

Sorry to hear Bismark is out. A great player.

[Hound_of_Harrow]

kiakaha - NZ will win this tourny. Much more to come from you guys I feel.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

It's looking good Hound but a long way to go. Australia showed what can happen when you have key players out. SA has Bismark out which is a big blow but you never know with the injury count. Looking forward to the return of Conrad Smith and hope he doesn't have further problems with his eye. Lucky we had SBW to cover as we look thin on stocks in the centres.

I do think we're able to kick up a gear but so too are Australia and SA as well and Argentina at home in particular are capable of springing a nasty surprise.

[lammergeier]

A win that feels like a loss

[Biltong]

It is because we expect more, but the reality is our chances are slowly fading.

No Bismarck, no JP Pietersen, No Burger, no Goosen, those are all guys that will change the dynamic of our play

[Biltong]

One thing is certain, Keegan Daniel is not big enough, strong enough or good enough for top international rugby, he brought nothing to the table yesterday

[Taylorman]

Key injuries to bismarck and pocock it seems doesn't help the SA or oz causes. Eden park will be tougher for oz but like Ireland they may get a complacent NZ. I hope not.

Average starts by all four sides. SA in Argentina will be high on the puma wishlist but I think SA will improve further on that one.

Better matches to come.

[Mr Fishpaste]

One thing is certain, Keegan Daniel is not big enough, strong enough or good enough for top international rugby, he brought nothing to the table yesterday

I agree that he didn't seem to do anything special, but it was a strange match, in that many Bok players didn't seem to do anything special (even ones who are capable of producing the special goods)...but until Burger is fit, I'd rather have Daniel than Spies, if for nothing other than he can combine with Coetzee and Alberts better given their familiarity with each other.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

I wonder how much of the sluggish start to the 4N by the former 3N can be attributed to the Super Long season?

I certainly hope the injury toll doesn't rise anymore. There are too many quality players out already.

[Biltong]

One thing is certain, Keegan Daniel is not big enough, strong enough or good enough for top international rugby, he brought nothing to the table yesterday

I agree that he didn't seem to do anything special, but it was a strange match, in that many Bok players didn't seem to do anything special (even ones who are capable of producing the special goods)...but until Burger is fit, I'd rather have Daniel than Spies, if for nothing other than he can combine with Coetzee and Alberts better given their familiarity with each other.

Yeah, it seems as if everyone played within themselves, it wasn't clinical, but it wasn't passionate either.

It almost seemed measured without the execution and intensity we would have wanted.

[yappysnap]

It did seem a little like a friendly warm up before the big thing next week.

[Biltong]

It did seem a little like a friendly warm up before the big thing next week.

That's probably the best way to describe it.

[Morgannwg]

Argentina were really off the pace and not strong enough. It reminded me of the Wales team of old touring SA. I hope they can do a lot better next week. Sounds like a one horse race atm if SA and Aus have all those players out.

[Taylorman]

Not a good sign in the breakdown stakes going by Meyers comments:

http://www.allblacks.com/news/20186/Springboks-struggle-at-breakdown

He also thought Steyn 'delivered' which agaisnt Argentina might be predictable yet said in a way that perhaps justifies his thinking- that Steyn is actually going to go well against the other two.

His comment:

"I'm probably a very difficult coach to please. I would have loved to get four tries, but this is Test match rugby," he said.

Not sure why the 'but' is in there...I would expect an 'as' or 'and'...not a but. The two go together dont they- tries and test matches? ...very odd way to be thinking.

But overall without the ability to compete at the breakdown, key injuries things dont look like theyre going to improve.

In saying that NZ and OZ also had very average games, particularly in the handling stakes so its probably not just SA that have reason to be concerned, someones got to come out of this looking reasonable good. The AB's probably nudge ahead at the moment with perhaps Oz and SA on a par, Argie yet to perform their best (at home).

Just get the feeling last weeks matches are going to be the norm again this weekend unless specific improvements are made.

[emack2]

The problem maybe having the mid term break for the test Series then back to Super Rugby.The draw actually suits the Boks two good wins be for the hard gives gives them momentum.With 8 points at least from two games Nz vOZ,the Wallabies may just turn it round at Eden park.Unlikely i know but no one expected the Boks to win at the house of Pain in 2008.complanency won`t be a problem.Same starting team with Crockett for Woodcock nothing lost there and ABs can fix the problems easier than OZ.Who`s the Ref?

[yappysnap]

Not a good sign in the breakdown stakes going by Meyers comments:

http://www.allblacks.com/news/20186/Springboks-struggle-at-breakdown

He also thought Steyn 'delivered' which agaisnt Argentina might be predictable yet said in a way that perhaps justifies his thinking- that Steyn is actually going to go well against the other two.

His comment:

"I'm probably a very difficult coach to please. I would have loved to get four tries, but this is Test match rugby," he said.

Not sure why the 'but' is in there...I would expect an 'as' or 'and'...not a but. The two go together dont they- tries and test matches? ...very odd way to be thinking.

But overall without the ability to compete at the breakdown, key injuries things dont look like theyre going to improve.

In saying that NZ and OZ also had very average games, particularly in the handling stakes so its probably not just SA that have reason to be concerned, someones got to come out of this looking reasonable good. The AB's probably nudge ahead at the moment with perhaps Oz and SA on a par, Argie yet to perform their best (at home).

Just get the feeling last weeks matches are going to be the norm again this weekend unless specific improvements are made.

That's a very Kiwi way to look at it (and the completely correct way as well in my opinion) of course teams that struggle to score tries eg SA, England, Ireland etc are going to make these kinds of comments about test Match rugby not being about tries. What the coaches are confusing is scoring tries and playing champagne rugby. Yes in test matches you can't just try to play like a 7's team, but you must go out to win the game and the only way to win is to score more points then the other team, and what gives you the most points? TRIES!

Martin Johnson is vilified as a coach in the media but he had at least one good concept, he said that to beat the top teams you had to have a gameplan that allowed you to score 30+ points; if you can't do that then those teams that are set up to score tries are always going to have a big advantage.

[Biltong]

I isn't like we're not scoring tries. We scored 10 tries in 4 matches this year. And that is with little or no creativity.

You can't criticise SA for the lack of trying, they chose a number of times to go for the try rather than the kick at goal.

Unfortunately, Jean de Villiers won't see options even if you slow the gam down and gave him superpowers.

[formerly known as Sam]

SA did an efficient job against a decent Argentinian team. I think the return game in Argentina might be tougher on SA as it will be another week for the Argentinian players to train together and this time that squad will have a game under their belts.

The result at the weekend could have been closer if Argentina had not squandered 3 pretty scorable shots at goal. That gave SA a cushion they utilised pretty well. If Argentina can find a 15 who can tackle then that would help as well.

[Biltong]

I agree, but the three kickable penalties missed came from the same teirritorial advantage, one after another.

If the first went ver the other two won't have taken place there, but in Argentine territory as there would have been a kick off. So the theory is they missed three kicks, but the end result is only 3 missed points.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

I think too many people are calling this tournament done and dusted after just one game. Plenty of games left and player depth I'm afraid is inevitably going to be further called on. SA could have and should've won the match with a bonus point but they won the game. Their injury situation is grim but I think it's the Wallabies who are struggling to replace injured players with players in form.

Plenty of rugby to come. Meyer will be looking for two wins no doubt against Argentina but will be looking to the other two nations as the key matches. Until I see that far into the tourny I won't be passing judgement.

[bluestonevedder]

Terrible news about Bismarck. What actually happened? I'm hearing knee ligament damage?

[kiakahaaotearoa]

That's right bluestonevedder. Of the medial kind which is the worst as it requires surgery and long recovery. Such a fine player who should have been starting ahead of Smit and now that Smit is gone and he starts this happens. Sport can be too cruel sometimes.

[Biltong]

He came of a ruck/maul and stood just of the ruck, the ball came to him and he passed it out, he was stationary when the tackle came in and hit him full on the knee whilst he was half turned.

[bluestonevedder]

Ah that sounds nasty, poor bloke. He's going to be sorely missed- I love watching him play, and I just hope he can return with the same brutal vigour that's made him such a popular player.

[formerly known as Sam]

If the first went ver the other two won't have taken place there, but in Argentine territory as there would have been a kick off. So the theory is they missed three kicks, but the end result is only 3 missed points

I think two were in close order the other not so much. Biltong but at the same time that was the phase of the game where Argentina were in control. They came out the blocks well in the second half and the Boks had to absorb a lot of pressure. If they'd kept the scoreboard ticking over then it would have been easier to push on. Those missed kicks deflated the Argentinians morale.

The Boks knew if they could weather the storm and sneak a penalty anywhere near the Argie half then Morne would keep things ticking over. That level of clinical points scoring was the difference for me.

[Biltong]

Yes, our defensive discipline was very good apart from that first 5 mintues of the second half.

I actually enjoyed watching argentina play. I kind of expected them to play like italy, I don't really know why. although there were stages where both teams kicked a lot, the Argies used the ball in hand well, there was one stage where they had an overlap of 4 to 2, and decided to come inside and it killed the move.

Other than that I beleive they will gain a lot from this tournament, I was listening to the Argentinian captain's speech after the match and you could see how happy they were to be part of this tournament, I personally beleive they will improve a lot quicker than most expect, in another two years, you ain't gonna bargain on a win against them away from home.

[Morgannwg]

I think Aus have enough sufficient depth to win all their remaining games, apart from the All Blacks in New Zealand where they will probably fail to get within 10 points. Aus have the duck over SA and Arg look devoid of ideas after just one game. I'm probably looking forward to the Argies next fixture the most, see if those passionate Argentinians can turn it around.

[disneychilly]

Disagree I reckon SA should win well in SA. Especially if Pocock is still out.

Was just thinking-this competition would be a hell of a supporters' tour don't you reckon? Expensive as hell but man if you could afford it...

[formerly known as Sam]

and Arg look devoid of ideas after just one game.

I'm still of the opinion they are warming up. Their players have not played as much rugby as the other countries so they were not as match fit and clinically tuned as the Boks last time out. A game to blow off the rust, a bit of fine tuning and I reckon they could be a menace with home support.

They could do a number on the Wallabies by taking set piece supremacy and doing what they did to the Boks and forcing turnovers when the opposition attempt to go wide. Force the Wallabies inside to the big Argie back and that will not be a game the Aussies will want to play.

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