ENG vs FRA - Match Thread - Team announcement, Chat & Banter etc...

[HERSH]

Last 10 meetings

26 Feb 2011 England 17 - 9 France
20 Mar 2010 France 12 - 10 England
15 Mar 2009 England 34 - 10 France
23 Feb 2008 France 13 - 24 England
13 Oct 2007 France 9 - 14 England -RWC
18 Aug 2007 France 22 - 9 England
11 Aug 2007 England 15 - 21 France
11 Mar 2007 England 26 - 18 France
12 Mar 2006 France 31 - 6 England
13 Feb 2005 England 17 - 18 France

ENGLAND - 5 Wins - FRANCE - 5 Wins

England

1 Matt Stevens
2 Steve Thompson
3 Dan Cole
4 Louis Deacon
5 Tom Palmer
6 Tom Croft
7 Lewis Moody
8 Nick Easter
9 Ben Youngs
10 Jonny Wilkinson
11 Mark Cueto
12 Toby Flood
13 Manu Tuilagi
14 Chris Ashton
15 Ben Foden

Replacements

16 Dylan Hartley
17 Alex Corbisiero
18 Courtney Lawes
19 Simon Shaw
20 James Haskell
21 Richard Wigglesworth
22 Matt Banahan



France

1 Jean-Baptiste Poux
2 William Servat
3 Nicolas Mas
4 Pascal Pape
5 Lionel Nallet
6 Thierry Dusautoir
7 Julien Bonnaire
8 Imanol Harinordoquy
9 Dimitri Yachvili
10 Morgan Parra
11 Alexis Palisson
12 Maxime Mermoz
13 Aurélien Rougerie
14 Vincent Clerc
15 Maxime Médard

Replacements

16 Dimitri Szarzewski
17 Fabien Barcella
18 Julien Pierre
19 Louis Picamoles
20 Francois Trinh-Duc
21 David Marty
22 Cédric Heymans

[tomhughesnice]

I imagine seeing French player smoking cigarettes while walking out the tunnel and being ten minutes late on field.

If England put on the early points, I can imagine the French losing interest in the game. England by 20, setting them up for a big semi final with fired up Celtic team, which would be marvelous!

[maestegmafia]

I have been very surprised to see France achieve so little this RWC. They have always given us so much enjoyment to watch.

I guess that the old Cliche will be mentioned a thousand times this week but it all depends who turns up.

Though by not picking Trinh-Duc at flyhalf I think france have given a huge advantage to England, even if England are not on the form they were 12 months ago.

[HERSH]

Wilkos fit and well thank god for that.

[Ozzy3213]

You can never really back against the French as they are always capable of pulling a performance from nowhere, BUT I just have a feeling that England may do the same this weekend, and find the big performance that has been missing so far.

Tindall (if his dead leg doesn't heal) missing out through injury could be a blessing in disguise, but only if MJ goes for Flood or Hape at 12 and not Banahan.

[LondonTiger]

The England that beat Aus last year, Wales & Italy in the 6N and Ireland in the warm up would have far too much against the France that we have seen in the last 12 months (except for against Celtic counties they have been dire - not sure what was worse the second half v Oz last AI or the match v Tonga).

Instead we have to expect that France will not be at their worst, and England will not be at their best.

Nerve-racking 8pt win for england.

[hugehandoff]

BBC and The Telegrapgh say Wilko to start and the Telegrapgh has been right on all these matters so far. The below is Paul Ackford's column.

"Once he has charted his course, that’s it, no matter the howls of protest coming from those outside the camp, no matter how much evidence of performance would seem to promote a counter argument. That was certainly the case with his former captain Steve Borthwick, whom Johnson retained long after his displays justified his inclusion in the starting line-up.

The argument Johnson used then was that Borthwick modelled exemplary standards around training, attitude and behaviour. At the start of the Johnson era, somewhat ironic given the distractions that have dogged England during this World Cup, that was seen as a crucial building block to future success.

If Johnson does, as seems likely, continue with Jonny Wilkinson as his starting No 10 against France rather than promoting Toby Flood, then he will do so for similarly singular reasons. Not because Wilkinson is playing or kicking particularly well. It is obvious that he is doing neither.

But because Wilkinson fits the pattern of the side that Johnson is comfortable with. Just as the sacking of Borthwick would have impacted on the cultural wellbeing of the squad all those months ago, so Wilkinson’s demotion would alter England’s balance now.

“We can’t change fundamentally which way we’re going as a team,” Johnson revealed, in the early weeks of this World Cup. “We can tweak stuff, but all the areas mesh together. That’s the game of rugby. It’s not American football. The important thing is no one is pulling it out of shape in terms of their own particular area. You have to have a balance. If you have your 15 best defensive players out there, that affects your attacking game.

“You’ve got to work out what importance you’re going to put on the set piece for a particular game, on attack, on defence, everything. It’s all gut-feel stuff and I have to make the big decision.”

If integration is important to Johnson, then so is mental strength and battle scars. That’s why talents such as Danny Cipriani, James Simpson-Daniel and Olly Barkley are not in New Zealand. In those vexed, career-defining moments towards the end of World Cups, skill is not nearly such a sought-after commodity as desire and experience. Wilkinson and Flood both have that, but Wilkinson, in Johnson’s eyes at least, has more.

Is Johnson too conservative, given that it was arguably Flood dancing close to the advantage line who created the space for Chris Ashton to squeeze over in the corner for the try which confirmed England’s appearance in the quarter-final? Maybe, but England, with Wilkinson the starting No 10 in three fixtures, are unbeaten and have only conceded one try in four matches.

It is hardly a compelling narrative to ditch Wilkinson, especially as Flood was the outside half in England’s hopelessly sterile display against Wales in Cardiff.

Perhaps if the opposition were anyone but France, Johnson might be tempted into change. But Wilkinson terrorises the French. In 13 games against them, he has amassed 159 points at an average of just over 12 a game. In the World Cup semi-final in 2003, Wilkinson scored all of England’s 24 points with five penalties and three dropped goals.

Four years later, in another World Cup semi-final, Wilkinson banged over two penalties and a dropped goal to go with Josh Lewsey’s try. The man doesn’t just terrorise the French. He haunts them.

The fascination of this debate is that ultimate judgment on Johnson’s selection policy, and what appears to be his innate conservatism, is suspended until the moment England lose. Only then can condemnation come because Johnson’s job is not to deliver a team that is pretty on the eye, but a team that wins matches.

As of now, despite the difficulties England experienced in shading Argentina and Scotland, despite the fact that Wilkinson’s kicking percentages are significantly down and Flood appears the more likely candidate to liberate a midfield which has disappointed, Johnson has got everything right. However good England might have been, they’ve been good enough. And that, frankly, is all that matters."

Interesting article and some good points re England's defence conceeding only 1 try so far. But for me I would prefer to see Flood start, but I keep changing my mind. At least those coming off the bench are making an impact so we have options. But I do fear a strong French performance.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

The biggest surprise for me would be if France go out of the tournament without producing one awesome game of rugby. But having said that, if I was a gambling man I'd put money on England.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Huge...sorry how much of that is Paul Ackfords column and how much of that is your words?

Have to say I cant disagree with much in there...which is suprising because Ackfords pieces usually just consist of " I still bear a grudge against Johnson and cant hide it as well as LOL does"

[damage_13]

given how crud my predictions have been I have voted France more than 7 in hope of reverse-mockers.

I am dreading this match more than Scotland as the French are looking like doing the same things we did in the 07 rwc (team chats, players pulling together before facing an Auld enemy).

I reckon it will be a France NZ final.

Unless..... England start well and play like they did at the end of the scotland match... which is unlikely as the wrong players are starting

[Geordie]

I can actually put up with Johnny there...for me Moody is the one that NEEDS to be benched.

He was poor gamewise, and he was even poorer leadership wise.

Remove him and get Wood on there...or play Haskell at 7...either way just remove Moody!

[damage_13]

I rate wood. A future England Captain.... after Haskell resigns after getting stung by a sleazy newspaper

erm

hang on... heard that before somewhere

[stlowe]

England

1 Matt Stevens
2 Steve Thompson
3 Dan Cole
4 Louis Deacon
5 Tom Palmer
6 Tom Croft
7 Lewis Moody
8 Nick Easter
9 Ben Youngs
10 Jonny Wilkinson
11 Mark Cueto
12 Toby Flood
13 Manu Tuilagi
14 Chris Ashton
15 Ben Foden

Replacements

16 Dylan Hartley
17 Alex Corbisiero
18 Courtney Lawes
19 Simon Shaw
20 James Haskell
21 Richard Wigglesworth
22 Matt Banahan



France

1 Jean-Baptiste Poux
2 William Servat
3 Nicolas Mas
4 Pascal Pape
5 Lionel Nallet
6 Thierry Dusautoir
7 Julien Bonnaire
8 Imanol Harinordoquy
9 Dimitri Yachvili
10 Morgan Parra
11 Alexis Palisson
12 Maxime Mermoz
13 Aurélien Rougerie
14 Vincent Clerc
15 Maxime Médard

Replacements

16 Dimitri Szarzewski
17 Fabien Barcella
18 Julien Pierre
19 Louis Picamoles
20 Francois Trinh-Duc
21 David Marty
22 Cédric Heymans

[stlowe]

Really not sure about Flood at IC. Johnson backs Hape all year and then completely discards him at the key moment. Was he feeling outdone by Lievremont's discarding of Trinh-Duc?

What's Johnson's thinking on this one? Does he want immediate resolvement of any kicking issues if they arise? Will we see heavy interchanging of 10 & 12? I'm very concerned about not having a go-to-man at IC, will we see Tuilagi coming into the attacking line there?

[Gatts]

Think the 5/2 bench tells all....they will stick it up the jumper and attempt to destroy the french pack...with two first recievers to kick the French back into the corner all day.

[doctor_grey]

I like the idea of Flood at 12. He has played outside Jonny at Newcastle and might be what is necessary to get the backs engaged. If MJ stayed with the 'same old' then we would be complaining about no imagination. So here goes. Hopefully the right choice to see off France.

[mystiroakey]

"What's Johnson's thinking on this one?"

hape had a pop at the lads that got into mischeif everyone else has backed everyone else up in media interviews!

johnnys kicking isnt great- however his defensive work is still quality, and he can still play good rugby

flood played well last game when he came on- was quick to use the ball and kicked well.

[Gatts]

Not sure Johnson is infantile enough to even think of doing that

[mystiroakey]

not sure what you mean.

The lads should back each other up. It may have caused a rift. Personally i cant see it have happening- but its a possibility not a fact!!

[majesticimperialman]

What i dont under standi is this, If either Flood or Wilkinson gets injured and as to go off, who comes on to replace them...Plus if Youngs takes a knock at the same time are we going to see a lock playng scrum half?

[Gatts]

Well Wiggles covers 9 and 10 so there are three tens. Banahan covers the centres and wings, I assume Cueto covers 15?

[sad_gimp]

Well, can't accuse him of being stubborn and conservative on this one. Provided we have the real Johnny Wilkinson turn up it's a good backline.

Worried about Youngs after the way he fell apart against Scotland. He's going to be targeted now. If he shows any signs of losing it again he has to come straight off.

I'm always a little scared of seeing Flood get run over by marauding back-rowers and centres but I think that may just be imagined because of his slight frame. You've got two of the most solid tacklers in the game either side of him so we should be OK there either way.

[PerryGee]

From the BBC website

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/15179244.stm

So what do we think?

[LondonTiger]

[rugbyfan]

Overall happy with the team - the lack of a strike runner at 12 shouldn't be of concern if JW and Flood can bring others into the game - esp Tuilagi coming back on the cut. Hopefully with two distributors in the team we'll finally get to see Ashton, Foden, Tuilagi and Cueto put into some space.

the 5/2 split of frowards/backs on the bench means there's plenty of options upfront if the pack is struggling, but I don't think it categorically points to a 'stick it up the jumper' attitude. if that was the case, wouldn't MJ ahve picked Hape, not Flood?

Seeing who starts as goal kicker will be interesting. I still think JW will be first choice to begin.

[PJHolybloke]

Well, I'm OK with that to be fair (not that Johnno would care), Easter will provide good ball from 8, Deacon and Palmer will steady the front row which will be vital with Stevens facing Mas, Moody will be given the task of worrying Parra like a Labrador with a sheep, and anything France give away penalty-wise will be punished.

There will probably be a fair amount of switching going on between Wilkinson/Flood and Flood/Tuilagi which will keep France guessing and when it comes down to DG opportunities or relieving pressure there is a right foot-left foot option to make best use of field position.

The bench is full of impact players so if England are there or thereabouts with 20 to go there's a fair chance of England being stronger for the final quarter.

Although Flood is not your average go-to man at 12, Tindall hasn't been effective in that role either as he hasn't made a clean break or troubled the gainline much in the group games and Flood's distribution will be much sharper.

On the whole 8.5 out of 10 from me.

[Ozzy3213]

I'm happy with Flood at 12, but Wilkinson will have to play flatter than he has been doing for Flood to have the time and space to be effective.

I think he could be the catalyst for a big performance from Tuilagi. Flood does attack the gainline well, and looks for the gaps rather than the contact as Hape and Tindall do.

If he starts squeezing through gaps this can pull defenders in very quickly and if Tuilagi gets space outside because of it, he could cause mayhem.

[PJHolybloke]

Agree Pete, my only slight concern is that this is a QF and a bit late in the day to be "tinkering", but if, as you suggest, Flood starts releasing Tuilagi with some decent ball it could be carnage.

[rugbyfan]

still not sure about Easter - I guess he's the safe, steadying option, but Haskell offers more with ball in hand and in defence. Plenty of firpower to bring on though with Lawes, Shaw and Haskell - these three, plus Corbisiero, could make a great impact in the last 30 minutes.

[Ozzy3213]

I agree PJ, I'd have liked to have seen it before now, but it's not like Flood and Tuilagi are strangers, they train with each other every day, and Flood is an intelligent player who can make this work.

Nerves are jangling now, roll on Saturday.

[EnglishReign]

I actually quite like it! Clearly an opportunity to get the backs involved, which we couldn't do against Scotland. It is a great backline, just need it to work!

[bathmad]

No no no no. You do not shoehorn your best players into different positions. Flood has not played 12 in over 3 years. He may be in there as a distributor, but that just shifts play one channel further out, i.e. we start flinging the ball too wide too quickly, with the risk that an ageing back row will be unable to cover the ground to support in time.
However, Flood's favourite tactic of the inside pop pass to Ashton is likely to work better in the 10/12 channel than it would inside.

I hope Easter gets stuck in to the game. Haskell has been playing well, so he'll have to have a blinder to justify his place.
How anonymous does Deacon have to be before he's dropped?

[Ozzy3213]

Deacon does a lot of graft, and given that Stevens is not a great scrummaging loosehead, he will need Deacons grunt packed down behind him if England are to get parity in the scrum.

[rodders]

"What's Johnson's thinking on this one?"

hape had a pop at the lads that got into mischeif everyone else has backed everyone else up in media interviews!

I was thinking the same but Toby Flood had a pop at the lads too and a subtle dig at Jonny Wilkinson as well so I would be surprised if that was the reason.

It is an odd call though.

[bathmad]

On a slightly different note, pleased to see Harinordoquy playing. Great player, fantastic athlete, shame he's on the wrong side...

[bathmad]

Deacon does a lot of graft, and given that Stevens is not a great scrummaging loosehead, he will need Deacons grunt packed down behind him if England are to get parity in the scrum.

Stevens is a good scrummager. He got pinged 4 times last week. 2 of which were dubious as the ref had no clue. The first (Scotland's first 3 points) was when England were marching Scotland back in the scrum, the scrum collapsed and the ref penalised the side going forward?!?!?!?!?!

[offload]

If..IF.. the French click, then England are going to need that bench because that's not the best starting XV. Does MJ have a cunning plan or simply not know his best team yet?

[maestegmafia]

Interesting team

Johnson must think this next game will be a touch easy, or he thinks some of the players will up their games massively.

After the last match Stevens and Wilkinson should have been dropped. Stevens got murdered in the scrum and Wilkinson kicked so aimlessly out of hand he looked like a scared school boy at ten. Both retained ????

Haskell one of the few success of the England back row is dropped for Nick Easter ???

Moody who has done little if anything of note for almost a year is picked at seven ahead of rising star Wood who has been superb all year for club and country.

Lawes Englands most highly praised and valued second row dropped for an average Deacon/Palmer pairing.

Flood at center is a good move, though would have been a better one still if england had of been able to clone him and also play him at flyhalf.

The rest of the team picks itself because of Armitage's third ban of 2011. There is little or no options in the back four positions anyway.


I predict France will come out a new team, will England...?

In the Six Nations France lost to Italy, got grilled for a week and hit great form in their next match beating Wales. The same will happen this week in the wake of the loss to Tonga.

[Ozzy3213]

Deacon does a lot of graft, and given that Stevens is not a great scrummaging loosehead, he will need Deacons grunt packed down behind him if England are to get parity in the scrum.

Stevens is a good scrummager. He got pinged 4 times last week. 2 of which were dubious as the ref had no clue. The first (Scotland's first 3 points) was when England were marching Scotland back in the scrum, the scrum collapsed and the ref penalised the side going forward?!?!?!?!?!

Stevens and Cole both got taught a lesson in the scrum last week. Yes, Scotland were at times scrummaging illegally, but they were so smart about it and played the referee brilliantly. Our two had no answer.

France will do the same, and our guys will need to be much smarter than they were a week ago otherwise we will get eaten alive.

[maestegmafia]

The first (Scotland's first 3 points) was when England were marching Scotland back in the scrum, the scrum collapsed and the ref penalised the side going forward?!?!?!?!?!

It was an early shove, Scotland didn't collapse, went backwards referee was right.

[beshocked]

Well, can't accuse him of being stubborn and conservative on this one. Provided we have the real Johnny Wilkinson turn up it's a good backline.

Worried about Youngs after the way he fell apart against Scotland. He's going to be targeted now. If he shows any signs of losing it again he has to come straight off.

I'm always a little scared of seeing Flood get run over by marauding back-rowers and centres but I think that may just be imagined because of his slight frame. You've got two of the most solid tacklers in the game either side of him so we should be OK there either way.

Yes we can accuse him of being stubborn and conservative - he has yet again picked Youngs and Wilkinson as a halfback combo. Did MJ not watch the Scotland game. He has picked Stevens again - who has not played well in the last two games. He has picked Moody again who was uninspirational as both a player and captain.

Flood at inside centre is the sacrificial lamb. He is not an inside centre. MJ is ruing the day he did not pick a good inside centre in the England squad.

bathmad very true. Shame Harinorduqouy isn't English. It would be nice to have a no 8 as good as him. Also he is one of the only Frenchman who plays with great determination and effort in every game.

[BATH_BTGOG]

Flood at 12!

what do people think?

Imo his only there to help out jonny but if both were to get injuried then who else have we got?

looks like we'll be doing lots of kicking.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Why does this Flood at 12 thing keep re-emerging?
Has it actually been annouinced then cos last time I checked he was on the bench?

[RubyGuby]

That bench is insane - I can see Shaw coming on at Outside Half

[hugehandoff]

What annoys me about selecting Flood at 12 is that he has not done this before. It is a big gamble doing it now in the knockout stages. Instead he wasted countless opportunities by selecting Hape and Tindall and now that MJ has finally realised that their combined offensive talents do not amount to much he is having to make a last minute change. A real lack of forward planning and thinking.

It may work and I can only pray that it does, but this is one of those where the manager should be criticised rather than praised it it does come off.

Haskell has added much dynamism and the choice of Easter shows MJ's conservative thinking. I do like Palmer starting over Lawes as his form does seem to be better at the mo.

A manager is entitled to make changes and select teams according to the opposition, but overall I think MJ is another in a long line of poor selectors (Andy Robinson (he drove us all nuts), Ashton). I totally respect that MJ is a good person to have in the England camp, but I am not sure that the overall blend of brains is correct. MJ was a very good foil to CW as was LD. I think Brian Smith (guessing here as I don't know at all what goes on in the England camp) needs more input in ensuring the offensive game is respected as much as the defensive aspect.

Apologies for being negative but I can't help how I feel and I do hope the lads pull it off and we go on to stuff the Celts and the ABs in the final.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Oh wow it has...
England: Ben Foden (Northampton Saints); Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), Mark Cueto (Sale Sharks); Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers); Matt Stevens (Saracens), Steve Thompson (London Wasps), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers), Tom Palmer (Stade Francais), Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), Lewis Moody (Bath Rugby, capt), Nick Easter (Harlequins)

Replacements: Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Simon Shaw (Unattached), James Haskell (Ricoh Black Rams), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Matt Banahan (Bath Rugby)



Wonder how they will spin Tindalls dropping? Tactical? I guess so since Flood offers a totaly differnet option to Hape who wouldve been more like for like.Im glad to see Easter back, but its tough on the brand who deserves to be at 7 ahead of Moody.

I never like the 5 2 bench split, and England suffered from this previously not having the chance to make tactical changes in the backs.

So France have no FH, England have 2 and the reserve on the bench. Interesting. I hope they have the guts to let Flood do the kicking and tell Jonny to cut out the DGs unless the possession is dead.

[hugehandoff]

Seabiscuit...see England team posted at 3.03 am on this thread

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

What annoys me about selecting Flood at 12 is that he has not done this before.

Err didnt he get the majority of his early caps at 12?

[BATH_BTGOG]

Peter

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15179244.stm

[Rava]

Not hard to see Johnston's tactics. He is preparing for an ugly forwards battle. Interesting that he has sacrificed too of the most mobile forwards in Europe for two workhorses. Is the 5-2 split on the bench a gamble?

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