Controversial Solution To Slow Play

After being stuck behind the slowest 4 ball if the year so far, the closet Tory in me came up with the following solution...

Seniors should not be allowed out in 4 balls...


Discuss

In my experience, MOST seniors aren't the problem. They are usually quicker than most. There are one or two exceptions, same as every age group but generally they get around pretty quickly

I played in a medal at the weekend (3-balls) and we had a pretty slow group. The culprit was the youngest of the 3 of us

Are senior's really the problem?

I find they are among the worst offenders at my club, there are obviously exceptions to this and todays 4 ball was unusually bad. For the record I regularly play with seniors and it was a (not so senior) senior that suggested it.

I don't get upset about slow play in medals, it can be hard to avoid especially if somebody isn't having a good day. I find it annoying when folk just refuse to hurry when they are creating backlog in general play.

I equally find it annoying when average players want to wait for drivable par 4s to clear when it is busy and they maybe catch the green in 1 of 10 or 20 attempts... why have the pressure of next group waiting at the tee when you are about to attempt a risk reward shot like this, and then have them up your back the rest of the way round? This is defo one that younger folk are guilty of.

I think a lot of golfers watch how long it takes the Pros to play their shot, and think if they take as long as the Pro's, they might be able to play like them.

I know at my club we have a lot of young lads, mid twenties, who take for ever to play a shot, or hit a putt, this is because the Pro's do it and the commentators, praise them for not being rushed into playing a shot.

I'm with op on this one - played in the first group of our swindle last week, teed off half an hour after a group of juniors, at least two of whom were off single figures, and our 4 ball caught their 4 ball up on the 7th, and then when one of them retired half way round the remaining 3 still kept us waiting several times on the back 9. Give me a group of seniors who knock it 180 yards down the middle every time any day.

It's pretty clear that there is no rule as to what age or gender makes a slow player. It can be anyone and everyone.

Redrage wrote:
I equally find it annoying when average players want to wait for drivable par 4s to clear when it is busy and they maybe catch the green in 1 of 10 or 20 attempts... why have the pressure of next group waiting at the tee when you are about to attempt a risk reward shot like this, and then have them up your back the rest of the way round? This is defo one that younger folk are guilty of.

Dunno about that... if they're capable of reaching the green, there's not a lot they can do. Suggesting they change they play the course a different way is a bit harsh, if they want to go for the green they should be able to, and if there's a possibility they'll hit it, they need to wait for it to clear.

Of course, if they're playing at a decent speed, the group behind them shouldn't have much of a problem anyway...

NedB-H wrote:

Redrage wrote:
I equally find it annoying when average players want to wait for drivable par 4s to clear when it is busy and they maybe catch the green in 1 of 10 or 20 attempts... why have the pressure of next group waiting at the tee when you are about to attempt a risk reward shot like this, and then have them up your back the rest of the way round? This is defo one that younger folk are guilty of.

Dunno about that... if they're capable of reaching the green, there's not a lot they can do. Suggesting they change they play the course a different way is a bit harsh, if they want to go for the green they should be able to, and if there's a possibility they'll hit it, they need to wait for it to clear.

Of course, if they're playing at a decent speed, the group behind them shouldn't have much of a problem anyway...

I am talking about a busy day when the pace of play is a problem already. You can play the percentages and hit a mid iron and a wedge. If the group behind were approaching the green and the group in front of you were only playing to the green, would it not cross your mind that this would maybe be wiser and keep the pace of play going instead of adding to the problem? I am talking about players biting off more than they can chew rather than reasonably good players.

Slow play is always going to wind people up a few times every season, and some clubs seem to be worse than others. I've played with seniors and they seem to be quicker than younger players as they never blast the ball into the cabbage as much. Many are usually straight and steady, but its hard to use generalisations.

last night I fancied doing 9-holes after work, so stood on the 1st a long par 5 with a clear fairway in front. after scrambling a par I walked to the 2nd only to see a 3-ball half way up the fairway. So I teed off onto a clear fairway on the 1st, how the hell can I catch up 3-blokes already? I waited for them to clear the green before teeing off, played the hole and walked to the 3rd only to find these blokes had not even got to the green on a par 3. Now starting to get annoyed, so as soon as the pin was put back in and whilst these blokes were sorting their bags out, I teed off and hit the green, thinking that these guys would probably tee off at the next hole and then wait for me to go through. None of it, and our club does allow singles to play through. I was held up at every hole and these prats were just ambling about. 2 of the blokes couldn't look me the eye and you could tell they were embarassed. over 2-hours to do 9-holes is a joke and I was tempted to fire a warning shot over their bows a few times

Its not as controversial as afoptong the logans rum solution

LondonJonnyO wrote:Its not as controversial as afoptong the logans rum solution

Looks like LJ has not sobered up after his birthday yet

Davie wrote:

LondonJonnyO wrote:Its not as controversial as afoptong the logans rum solution

Looks like LJ has not sobered up after his birthday yet

Nothing like a good afoptong on a Friday morning

Nah. Fat fingers on an iphone will do that.


Logans run is of course what i meant

Why don't you just shoot the stragglers, one by one.

That would speed things up.

Doc wrote: None of it, and our club does allow singles to play through.

Your club can't do this - unless they've elected to ignore entirely the Rules of Golf - singles have the same standing as groups on the course.

George1507 wrote:

Doc wrote: None of it, and our club does allow singles to play through.

Your club can't do this - unless they've elected to ignore entirely the Rules of Golf - singles have the same standing as groups on the course.

Surely a local rule can override this though? I'm not sure the way that it works with regards to the R&A and local rules at clubs but I have always assumed that a player should follow the rules of golf according to the R&A unless there is a local rule that says otherwise.

R&A Rules App - Etiquette wrote:

Priority on the Course

Unless otherwise determined by the Committee, priority on the course is determined by a groups pace of play. any group playing a whole round is entitled to pass a group playing a shorter round. The term "group" includes a single player

Basically. Act sensibly and not like an idiot.

From the Etiquette section of the R o G

Priority on the Course
Unless otherwise determined by the Committee, priority on the
course is determined by a group’s pace of play. Any group playing a
whole round is entitled to pass a group playing a shorter round.The
term “group” includes a single player.

________________________________________________________

The club could enforce a local rule to say otherwise I suppose, but why would they? When that section of the rules was changed, it was one of the most requested and welcomed changes in decades. I can't imagine any club really wanting to ignore that, it would be just perverse.

George we brought in a local rule 18-months ago, so whats the issue!! Bit of a statement that isn't it ... ignoring the rules of golf?

Generally clubs that have a local rule have one stating that 2 and 3 balls have total priority at certain times.

Generally a single player is practicing rather than playing so they rarely get in anyones way or play a full round.


Funny thing is that one of the major causes of slow play isn't the player but the course administrators. Inappropriate setups (long rough and stupid flags being part of that) and short starting intervals.

The R&A recommend at least 10 minutes between 4 balls. But clubs hardly ever take this into account as they want to stuff as many people as possible onto the course.

SetupDeterminesTheMotion wrote:Why don't you just shoot the stragglers, one by one.

That would speed things up.

Isn't that a tad 'unsporting' as its not exactly a moving target.

I would recommend a good whip!!

A quick snap on the butt would get them moving on pretty sharpish

--------------
4 balls are usually okay - when all 4 players are of a reasonable standard.
Its the ones that go - rough - bunker - rough - greenside bunker x 2 - 4 putt.
And thats on the easy par 3.

ronin47

It's also all about when you play. Can't remember the last time that slow play was a problem for me - if I play at the weekend I will generally tee off before 7am or after 3pm as that 8-12 period on most golf courses is just not fun.

Maybe tweaking the idea of not allowing seniors into 4 balls we could actually ban them from playing at the weekend. They have very little else to do in the week so why clog up golf courses at a weekend when they could leave it to those that don't have the choice of working in the week.

And while we're at it, ban them from supermarkets at the weekend. I do my weekly shop every Sunday morning and always have to queue behind an army of pensioners that are in there buying their newspapers and a pint of milk for the day - go on a Monday and shop for the week!

My Logans Run solution is looking more and more popular....

Women are much faster round the course and the main problem with slow play lies with the middle aged lardy males. Especially those who think they can play golf.
If you can't put your socks on without sitting down you should not be allowed to play golf without an OAP buggy.

What! Oh sorry I was still on Logans Run.......Jenny Agutter mmmm well she was then of course, not so much now.....Walkabout.....sorry I went again there.

Doc - as a singleton, wasn't there a gap somewhere else that you could have slotted into?

Or if they were that slow, why not just walk straight past them onto the next hole? I assume theyhad a clear course in front.

Slow play at my place tends to be two types of player. It certainly isn't any of the veteran players as on the whole they tend to know the etiquette better from playing the game for years and have no issue allowing you to play through.

Nor is it ladies they all seem to keep up with the pace of play pretty well at our place and there's less than a handful that seem to venture out on weekends.

The slow play culprits at our place tend to be either a)Juniors who think lining putts up at every angle despite it being 1foot away from the hole, and taking several minutes to decide what club, then type of shot to play because that's what the pro's do! Or b) guys between 30 -40 age range (my age range) that have just taken up the game and only experience of it is watching it on tv so we get the pro emulation factor again!

I've had several run ins with both types, the juniors tend to be more respectful and have taken it on the chin and acknowledge error of their ways the 30-40 year olds less so, so they gets heated one guy even saying "if you were a decent player you would play slower and understand why us good players do" brief words exchange then got drawn in 1st round of club Masters comp with him, he had to eat his words when he found out what the difference in handicaps were and several moans at him from the rest of our 4ball about pace of his play and holding us and other groups up led to an NR after just 7 holes for him.

Best solution for slow play, outing the culprits in the bar

Agree with most of the above and juniors are the worst slow play offenders due to lining up for ever etc. I personally think the junior coaches and organisers can sort this by insisting they keep up with play. I really feel that juniors are the life blood of the game however part of being a member of any club I knowing your place within. My club is blighted by groups of slow players not just juniors and every now and again has a push on sorting it, but nothing works for some. the one group however that seems to have been missed are society groups particularly when they have a lot of occasional golfers. I once took 2 and a half hours to play 8 holes behind a society I then was walking towards the 9th tee and noticed 12 people stood waiting to tee off!!! I walked off straight away stopping briefly at the pro shop to get my money back.

in my limited experience i would have to disagree. the juniors that i have played with recently on the whole are very fast players who hole so many putts from all over the place due with youthfull swagger, i can forgive them taking 5 more seconds to line up their putts.

i take my time over putts as i expect to hole a good percentage of them. however in one medal last year, i played with a 26 handicapper who decided to take the same time and consideration over his putts as me, obviously thinking it may be the solution to his lack of skill. it was an incredibly frustrating afternoon. despite spending what seemed like ages lining up, he was leaving 10 footers 4 feet short, or missing them 2 feet right. 4 hours and 50 mins later we finished the round as a 2 ball. thankfully we were at the end of the field. or we would have been even longer letting dozens of groups through.

i guess what i'm trying to say is that some people justify the time they take over shots with results. others do not.

I played County strokeplay championship yesterday.

1st round:

Started on the 1st, group in front was painfully slow and losing group after a few holes. At one point, whilst standing in the middle of the fairway rapidly losing the will to live, I watched the group in front putting out on one of the greens through my laser rangefinder. Young wannabe superstar putts up to very close (I'm guessing about 12 inches), marks his ball, cleans it again, replaces it, walks back 10 feet to line it up from behind, walks back up to his ball then takes 8 (yes EIGHT, I counted them!) practice strokes before tapping in.
We finally get called through on the 12th and now have a couple of clear holes in front of us but lo and behold, we fail to pull away from them. Finally finish in 4hr45.

Start on the 10th in the afternoon behind the same group. They hit their 2nd shots into the green then we tee off. We never saw them again after that and we ended up losing holes on the group in front. When we got to the turn, I handed over the card I was marking and politely thanked my partners for the pleasure of playing with them, 2hr20 minutes after teeing off with nobody holding us up.

I know it is wrong to walk off but having put up with a field full of wannabe's dicking around with exagerrated preshot routines, walking 3 times round every green to line up the putt then missing it and backing off every shot because somebody dropped a flagstick on the green 3 holes away on the other side of the course but I was close to blowing my stack.

Yesterday has seriously made me reconsider my open schedule for this coming year, maybe mid ams are the way to go because by the time people get to 35 they have realised that they aren't going to end up on tour and just get on with the job in hand.

Over 7 hours to play 27 holes is totally totally unacceptable!

I agree... But you'll still be at the Bournemouth I'm guessing. Mainly as I didn't see many kids there last year and the prospect of a curry fuelled 36 holes is far too enticing.

d4s

What was causing your own group to be so slow? Are you sure that you did not contribute to the slow play?

It is like driving (a car) nobody thinks they are a bad driver. Who ever admits to slow play?

LJ

of course I'll be there

Mac, no I'm not a slow player. I expect to get round the course in a 3 ball medal in 3hr45. I saw numerous incidences yesterday of really basic errors. Guys were continously not starting their prep work until it was their turn to play ie lining up putts, checking yardages so they knew what club to hit etc etc. Each time that happens it might only add 10-15 seconds to each shot but if you have 3 guys each hitting over 70 shots a round, that adds up to an awful lot of wasted time.

McLaren wrote:d4s

What was causing your own group to be so slow? Are you sure that you did not contribute to the slow play?

It is like driving (a car) nobody thinks they are a bad driver. Who ever admits to slow play?

I'm a terrible driver. Cars and golf balls.

You have to wonder sometimes if all those practice swings don't lead to complete confusion. You start off knowing what you want to do and how to do it. swing a stick 5 times and then hit a poor one simply because you started thinking about something totally different.

Keep it Simple PoopieHead. (Although I have pre-profanity filtered that I'm sure it gets the point across)

I would also like to say that I find it amusing that Mac refers to thinking oneself as a good driver when he is clearly a delivery man for the exportation of hairy kneed kilt wearing Scottish brickies to germany.

I will take one full practice swing at most, I just dont think they achieve anything.

I prefer to have a couple of practice takeaways, concentrating on keeping it smooth and ensuring all things move in sync.

D4s

Sorry was only joking about the cause being you.

standing around waiting for others to go through their multiple practice swing pre-shot routine is really beginning to pee me off. growing up as a junior at a rural club there was none of it, but since moving to a city course playing with 25-55's it seems almost like it's a virus that's spreading.

it ain't got me though... i like to have the odd practice swing while others are setting up on the tee, or waiting on the fairway, but my pre-shot routine is all about trying to get my alignment right and 'feeling' the correct grip. i don't like to keep others waiting with unnecessary swings when it's my turn to go. on the course i find the best thing for me is to feel comfortable with my set up - all my pre shot swings happen on the range before hand. i don't think i'm a particularly fast player. i'm methodical. but i don't waste time.

Don't get me wrong here by the way. There is nothing wrong with taking your time and having a few practice strokes. I use a small half swing type thing followed by a full swing on full shots. And will take a few more on pitches whilst looking at the hole so I can feel distance.

But unless I have a really tough shot I won't be taking huge amounts of time. And 8 for a 12 inch putt? Never.

i don't think i've ever seen anyone take even one practice swing for a 12 inch putt let alone eight. it must have had a big swing on it...

depends. If you've just had a putt then no.

If I've hit it into 12 inches from a pitch or full shot then I will. On the basis that I want to make sure my last feeling was a putting stroke not a smash it stroke.

super_realist wrote:It's pretty clear that there is no rule as to what age or gender makes a slow player. It can be anyone and everyone.

Couldn't agree more!

lj, i go through the same thing, a few wee swings to feel the distance whilst others are preparing to play their shot. what i'm talking about is when it's their shot and they are over the ball and they have 3, 4 maybe half a dozen swings before settling over the ball and then playing. for me, i don't find i gain anything from one, but having loads of swings as if trying to find a groove, is never going to work, as they still have to settle over the ball, by which point they're back out of that groove. i just don't see the sense. also, most of the folk i play with have differing tempo's on their practice swing to their actual shot, be that less or more aggressive, there is limited consistency.

LondonJonnyO wrote:depends. If you've just had a putt then no.

If I've hit it into 12 inches from a pitch or full shot then I will. On the basis that I want to make sure my last feeling was a putting stroke not a smash it stroke.

fair point, but doesn't happen that often for me or others i play with - compared to the zillions of tap in's for a 2 or 3 putt.

Doesn't happen to me that often either. But the point is there are situation which mean that more swings than normal might be a good idea.

Sitting in deepish rough with a good lie and a 3 wood in your hands means more swings than normal. Usually because you've left the ball in the rough as you should have taken a 9 iron.

again, fair point. however, my frustration is with regard to players general pre-shot routine's. it is likely that those who take 5 practice putting strokes as their normal routine are more likely to take 8 practice strokes in the more challenging situations you describe. maybe even for a 12 inch putt.

It is worth noting that there is no rule relating to how long it should take to play a shot. So the player can take as long as they need dependent upon not being on the clock, and not unduly holding up play.

But 4 hours 45 says to me that the clock should have been out with warnings and penalties being applied. Of course that can't happen unless it is stated as a condition of competition along with the amount of time to be taken by each player for each shot.

So what would be people say are the 5 key steps anyone can take to avoid slow play?

I would say they all relate to bad shots.

Watch the ball closely in flight so you know where it is going should it find a spot of bother.

be realistic. If it has gone wide hit a provisional.

If you are in a tricky spot again be realistic, always take the easiest chip back to safety.

If you are in a four ball and you are all duffers don't be afraid to play out of order as long as it is safe. Keep the shot rate ticking over.

let people through as soon as you can if you know you are a group of lesser experience or are generally slow.

i've played in a comp where guidelines [rather than rules] stated that from arrival at the ball to playing your shot should take no longer than 45 seconds. mentioned this before on a thread on 606. 45 is loads of time, maybe ok if faced with a bum squeaker, but i'd have thought 30 should be enough for mr average.

Watch the ball closely in flight so you know where it is going should it find a spot of bother.

Usually the kids who don't do this. So disgusted at Poopie it that they have a tantrum. Funny that those who make it are the ones who watch it like a hawk to get the best line on it

be realistic. If it has gone wide hit a provisional.

Again it's usually those who don't watch it through being a Muppet who don't do this. Regardless of advice

If you are in a tricky spot again be realistic, always take the easiest chip back to safety.

Don't agree with that. I regularly hit a 3 wood out of 5 or 6 inch grass. It can be done... but be realistic about where you are going to get to so as not to hold up play knocking it out of long grass hoping for 270 yards out of it

If you are in a four ball and you are all duffers don't be afraid to play out of order as long as it is safe. Keep the shot rate ticking over.

Why is this just for duffers? If someone is in a spot of bother play your shot while they figure out what to do

let people through as soon as you can if you know you are a group of lesser experience or are generally slow.

eh? Surely that is 'Let them through if they are faster than you and there is clear ground ahead.' Letting a 2 ball running round through a 4 ball when there are 10 more 4 balls up ahead is just daft in my opinion