Arum: Marquez next for Pacquiao.

by D4thincarnation Fri 15 Apr 2011, 3:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

The Mosley fight still has to play but Arum is already planing Pacquiao's next bout.

The fight will complete an thrilling trilogy, when Juan Manual Marquez step into the ring for a 3rd time.

There first fight was an epic battle Pacquiao knocking down Marquez 3 times in the first round only for Marquez to come back with the help of mistake by one of the judges to claim a draw.

The rematch was 4 years in the waiting but is was worth the wait, a great technical battle, his speed chess, Pacquiao put Marquez down again only the once but much more heavier knockdown that the previous ones.

The fight swayed back and forth and in the end Pacquiao sneaked a SD.

Since then they have both move up the weights, and had some impressive victories so what can we expect from the 3rd and probably final fight from these two greats.

Many of you were calling for this fight, and with Marquez being a free agent it should be easy to negotiate and will probably happen in November.

Pacquiao just has to get through Mosley now and the trilogy can be complete. Yahoo

http://www.boxingscene.com/pacquiao-vs-marquez-likely-next-manny-says-arum--38132

by Imperial Ghosty Sat 16 Apr 2011, 11:52 am

Don't think people have an issue with Pacquiao using his leverage but making it acceptable for him but unacceptable for Mayweather seems like double standards.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:03 pm

Funny thing is like with alot of these so called "Haters" if he was in Vegas park and saw Mayweather walking to his car the kid would be begging for a picture and telling him he's the greatest....

and you know it's true.

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:04 pm

The Mighty Atom wrote:Don't think people have an issue with Pacquiao using his leverage but making it acceptable for him but unacceptable for Mayweather seems like double standards.

Yes but its only the D4s that make this argument so theres no point using him as a benchmark for acceptabilty when it comes to MAyweather/Pacquiao.

by **oxring** Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:06 pm

The Mighty Atom wrote:Don't think people have an issue with Pacquiao using his leverage but making it acceptable for him but unacceptable for Mayweather seems like double standards.

Agreed.

Just for anyone (not you manos) who hasn't quite grasped it:

It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140

Clear?

by Imperial Ghosty Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:08 pm

Very true, it's just oh so annoying when these fights happen years after when they should have. We can talk about size all we want but stylistically Marquez proved to be a nightmare for Pacquiao and having seen the Barerra/Morales and Pacquiao/Morales trilogies there's no reason why we haven't seen a third installment already.

by **HumanWindmill** Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:08 pm

oxring wrote:
The Mighty Atom wrote:Don't think people have an issue with Pacquiao using his leverage but making it acceptable for him but unacceptable for Mayweather seems like double standards.

Agreed.

Just for anyone (not you manos) who hasn't quite grasped it:

It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140
It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez at >140

Clear?

One more time please, oxy.

by **oxring** Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:12 pm

It is double standards and muddled logic to criticise FMJ for
fighting Marquez at >140 and then praise Manny for fighting marquez
at >140

Just for you Windy.

Wouldn't want to give the impression that this circular debate had frustrated me at all...

by **HumanWindmill** Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:15 pm

Of course not, mate. Me neither.

by Imperial Ghosty Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:16 pm

We're all enjoying this aren't we, something a bit different for once

by **HumanWindmill** Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:19 pm

You know what they say, Ghosty ; variety is the spice of life.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:19 pm

Jesus was mocked too d4 so don't worry about it...

Your insider knowledge that...

Amundsen didn't really reach the South pole...
Mallory was first to climb Everest...
George Bush jr is really a Woman in drag
John F kennedy was killed by lyndon Johnson in the study with the candle stick...

will be considered gospel in years to come..

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:20 pm

If there is any stock in the idea that Marquez is next in line then I think Marquez should have a fight at welter next and at least try to acclimatise.

He probably wouldnt want to jeopardise the fight by taking on too big a threat but he should look to fight a guy like Malignaggi who isnt a big puncher or welterweight himself. That would give people a better indication of how he can hack it higher up. Im relectant to to put a great deal of emphasis on the Mayweather fight.

I just think at this point in time in their careers Pacquiao has far too much and has shown he can handleweight shifting to far better effect. I dont think the outcome will depend on the weight but I fear that a few pounds here or there will become an overpowering sideshow when the reality is Marquez just isnt good enough nowadays to hang with Pacquaio. That fight looks much better on paper, especially given their history than it does in reality.

Shades of Leonard v Duran III for me.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:29 pm

manos de piedra wrote:Well the flip side is that Pacquaio is a welterweight champion and the number 1 fighter in the world. People want him to forfeit all his leverage and hand over the advantage to Marquez?

Marquez is the guy at the lower weight, with the lower draw and the lower ranking. Hes the one going to have to make the sacrifices if he wants the shot.

Marquez to my knowledge has never come in at 131 for a lightweight fight. He usually comes in about a pound under.

The extra few pounds shouldnt make much of a difference unless Pacquiao intends on bulking up further and significantly outweighing Marquez with the intention of overpowering him. To date Pacquiao has never weighed in at close to the 147 limit though.

It's not about begrudging manny using his leverage, it's about making it a fair fight. For Diaz II - JMMs one before last fight, JMM weighed in at 131. For mannys last but one fight against clottey he weighed 145. That's a full stone difference. If manny has stated this week he feels he's a natural 140 fighter, and Marquez has stated he wants the fight, then they should meet in the middle. One comes up, one comes down and we get a fight agreed close to the 140lb mark. If manny has scope to go all the way up to 147 it will be an extra consideration for Marquez in preparation, whether manny does it or not, because we know from the clottey fight he's able to get close to it. You could gave a situation where Marquez is outweighed by 6 or 7lb on the scales before the fight, which isn't fair. Manny may be top dog, but Marquez is also a top pro and p4p fighter and deserves respect rather than saying he should take what he's offered coz mannys the bigger draw.

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:48 pm

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Well the flip side is that Pacquaio is a welterweight champion and the number 1 fighter in the world. People want him to forfeit all his leverage and hand over the advantage to Marquez?

Marquez is the guy at the lower weight, with the lower draw and the lower ranking. Hes the one going to have to make the sacrifices if he wants the shot.

Marquez to my knowledge has never come in at 131 for a lightweight fight. He usually comes in about a pound under.

The extra few pounds shouldnt make much of a difference unless Pacquiao intends on bulking up further and significantly outweighing Marquez with the intention of overpowering him. To date Pacquiao has never weighed in at close to the 147 limit though.

It's not about begrudging manny using his leverage, it's about making it a fair fight. For Diaz II - JMMs one before last fight, JMM weighed in at 131. For mannys last but one fight against clottey he weighed 145. That's a full stone difference. If manny has stated this week he feels he's a natural 140 fighter, and Marquez has stated he wants the fight, then they should meet in the middle. One comes up, one comes down and we get a fight agreed close to the 140lb mark. If manny has scope to go all the way up to 147 it will be an extra consideration for Marquez in preparation, whether manny does it or not, because we know from the clottey fight he's able to get close to it. You could gave a situation where Marquez is outweighed by 6 or 7lb on the scales before the fight, which isn't fair. Manny may be top dog, but Marquez is also a top pro and p4p fighter and deserves respect rather than saying he should take what he's offered coz mannys the bigger draw.

Where are you getting Marquez weighed 131 for Diaz II from? All reports I read said he was 133.5. He weighed 134 for his next fight with Katsidas then whilst Pacquiao weighed 144.5 for Margarito.

I agree with you that 140 is obviously fairer but and if there transpires to be 7lb difference between the two then its too much of an advantage for Pacquiao. History suggests this probably wont be the case though.

My point is that if it transpires that theres only a couple of pounds weight difference how big a deal will be made of it and in reality how big a difference will it make? I also query the idea that 147 will strip him of all power and speed because he weighed 142 for Mayweather which is only 2 lbs above lightwelter. If people think he cant carry speed and power at 142 then do people really think it will be any different at 140?

As for fair fights, if this were the case then the Klitschkos may aswell start agreeing to fight opponents with one hand tied behind their back and one eye shut. Haye should have given Audley a baseball bat.

My take on it is that Pacquiao is a Welterweight champion at the moment as thats where he holds his title. I dont see it being his perogative to accomodate other challengers who want to move up. If Marquez feels that 147 is beyond him then he shouldnt take the fight there. That way if Pacquiao really wants Marquez he can offer it at 140 or move on to a different opponent. If Marquez takes the fight at 147 then he has to accept the consequences whatever they may be.

by joeyjojo618 Sat 16 Apr 2011, 12:54 pm

manos de piedra wrote:

I also query the idea that 147 will strip him of all power and speed because he weighed 142 for Mayweather which is only 2 lbs above lightwelter. If he cant carry speed and power at 142 then do people really think it will be any different at 140?

I agree with some of what you say Manos, but not this. If its at 140 then Marquez can come in anywhere between 135-140, safe in the knowledge that he wont be massively outweighed by Manny. But if the limit is 147, he will feel that he has to get himself up to 142 or thereabouts to comete, where we have all seen that he loses his speed and power (I think this is what SBS is getting at.)

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr 2011, 1:13 pm

joeyjojo618 wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:

I also query the idea that 147 will strip him of all power and speed because he weighed 142 for Mayweather which is only 2 lbs above lightwelter. If he cant carry speed and power at 142 then do people really think it will be any different at 140?

I agree with some of what you say Manos, but not this. If its at 140 then Marquez can come in anywhere between 135-140, safe in the knowledge that he wont be massively outweighed by Manny. But if the limit is 147, he will feel that he has to get himself up to 142 or thereabouts to comete, where we have all seen that he loses his speed and power (I think this is what SBS is getting at.)

I agree completely that if you want to make the fight as even as possible then 140 is the better option.

If Pacquiao outweighs Marquez by 6/7/8 pounds then it becomes a mismatch. Im just saying if he only outweighs him by a couple of pounds do people think it will be a critical factor?

Like I said above, I dont place a great deal of emphasis on the Mayweather fight because I think Marquez was made to look bad by a slicker, bigger and faster boxer who employed a near perfect strategy against him that he had no answer to. I think theres every chance he looks just as slow and ineffective whether he weighs 142,140 or 138. I think his slowness was based on Mayweathers class and style and the fact he is getting older. I watched his fights with Diaz and Katsidas (2 guys tailor made for him) and I thought he still looked significantly slower than he had a few years ago. This is debateable though. I would like to see him fight again at 142 against a different class of fighter to properly ascertain how much difference those extra 7lbs or so make to him.

by joeyjojo618 Sat 16 Apr 2011, 1:19 pm

I agree with you completely that Manny wins this at 140 or 147, as he has got too much for Marquez at this stage in their careers. But even though I would pick Manny every time regardless of the weight difference, I think it would be a more competitive matchup at 140 and in my opinion it would look better on his record beating Marquez at the lower weight.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat 16 Apr 2011, 1:27 pm

Think it would be best for the fight to be at 140lbs wouldn't like to see Manny drop below hat anymore would be worried we wouldn't see the best of him. Marquez has proved he isn't the same fighter at 147 so would be a pointless fight and would prove absolutely nothing.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 16 Apr 2011, 3:12 pm

Manos de Piedra: My take on it is that Pacquiao is a Welterweight champion at the moment as thats where he holds his title. I dont see it being his perogative to accomodate other challengers who want to move up. If Marquez feels that 147 is beyond him then he shouldnt take the fight there. That way if Pacquiao really wants Marquez he can offer it at 140 or move on to a different opponent. If Marquez takes the fight at 147 then he has to accept the consequences whatever they may be.
-------------

Manos you may be right about Marquez weighing 133 for Diaz II, I'm out and about so working off the top of my head. I do seem to remember being surprised out how light he weighed in having 142 in his previous fight.

With regard to your point about manny being the WW champ and if Marquez can't compete there he should forget it and move on. In principle I agree with that whole stance. However manny made stipulations on weight when challenging for the WW title (that Cotto commit to 145lb) and when challenging for the LMW title (151lb). If manny couldn't challenge at ww or lmw perhaps he shouldve stayed at 140 instead of demanding a weight stip that suits him? My point is why is it ok for Team Pac to make when moving up and challenging, but not for them to make the same concessions to their own challengers?

I completely agree that mayweather wouldve owned Marquez no matter what their respective weights, as he does everything jmm does but quicker, better and with greater physical attributes. I also agree that even if it is made at 147 the chances are manny will come in at about 144 and it wont have much bearing on the outcome (especially when you consider his rung weight for JMM II was 146lb). My bugbear with this being at full 147 is that it gives manny scope to outweigh jmm by half a stone at the weigh in. The chances are he won't, but jmm will have to make his preparations based on an assumption, whereas if it was made at a specific weight of 140 or 142 everyone knows where they stand.

by samevans1 Sat 16 Apr 2011, 3:34 pm

142 or so might be the fairest scenario; and Pacquiao could quite clearly make it.

I would heavily bet against Marquez at this stage of their careers no matter what the weight division.

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:17 pm

manos de piedra wrote:There are some points getting lost in the furore here.

The first point is Marquez. The apparently fat and slow Marquez from the Mayweather fight weighed in at 142 pounds. Its not like he came in at full blown welterweight. He was barely above the lightwelterweight limit. He could have come in at 140 if he wanted to. So this idea that hes being stripped of all his speed and force to pack on pounds isnt really valid. If you feel he cant carry speed or power up to 142 pounds then making the fight at 140 is not going to change a great deal. The bigger issue is what the limit allows his opponents to size up on him rather than how he himself is affected.

In this regard, the fight was supposed to be a catchweight at 144 with Mayweather. Mayweather essentially didnt bother with this and came in at almost the welterweight limit as he normally does for his welterweight fights. This deserves criticism as the point of making it 144 was to avoid Mayweather, a fighter known for coming in at the welter limit, sizing up too much on Marquez.

Contrast this to Pacquaio who has never come in at the welter limit even for his fight with Margarito. Marquez can safely assume that Pacquiao will weigh no more than 144 pounds and could weigh as little as 142. Paquiao will only outweigh him by a few pounds if Marquez opts to come in as light as possible.

Making the fight at 140 would be the fairest and remove the bickering over the effects of a couple of pounds but in reality is it going to change much? I dont think so. Marquez has been getting slower because hes getting older. Mayweather was an awful opponent stylewise to Marquez and was just the better fighter. Marquez looked average trying to force a fight against a quicker opponent. I dont think the outcome would have been remotely different a 140. If you look at Marquez fights against Diaz and Katsidas since he has looked older and slower full stop even at his more natural lightweight.

The bigger concern is that Marquez is just slowing down ad Pacquiao is red hot. At this point Pacquiao will hold nearly all the advantages regardless of the weight they fight as I think he will be too young, too fast, too strong for Marquez.

I expect the fight will be scheduled for 147 or else a catcheight like 144 similar to Mayweather - to give the illusion of comprimise (when the reality is 144 and 147 mean the same thing in this fight). Pacquiao will look for any advantage he cn get however small. But how big a difference will this be in all honesty?

If the fight does go ahead for 147 and Marquez weighs in at 141 and Pacquiao at 147 then I would concede its been stacked badly but the more likely scenario is that Marquez will be 141 and Pacquiao 143 or something. If this is the case are people going to raise hell over a couple of pounds as being the critical factor?

Well said obviously if Manny come in much heavier than Marquez is will be a factor, but most likely Marquez and Pacquiao will be within a lb or two of each other in the weigh in and on the night. So there no size advantage or disadvantage if this happens.

by azania Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:31 pm

Didn't Floyd weigh in 2 lbs above JMM?

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:33 pm

He did come in heavier and paid the fine. Marquez could still have walked away from the fight but didn't for the money so it's fair game really.

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:41 pm

azania wrote:Didn't Floyd weigh in 2 lbs above JMM?

No

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:42 pm

prettyboy1304 wrote:He did come in heavier and paid the fine. Marquez could still have walked away from the fight but didn't for the money so it's fair game really.

Marquez is a warrior, and did not want to let down all the fans, he has some respect for them.

by BALTIMORA Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:43 pm

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:43 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:He did come in heavier and paid the fine. Marquez could still have walked away from the fight but didn't for the money so it's fair game really.

Marquez is a warrior, and did not want to let down all the fans, he has some respect for them.

So the career high fee he earned had nothing to do with it?

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:46 pm

azania wrote:Didn't Floyd weigh in 2 lbs above JMM?

No he weighed 2lbs more than the agreed catchweight of 144lb, 4lbs heavier than marquez who weighed in at 142lb.

Regardless of what D4 says about it being 156lb (unsubstantiated lies, just guesswork) his in-ring weight is unrecorded.

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:46 pm

prettyboy1304 wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:He did come in heavier and paid the fine. Marquez could still have walked away from the fight but didn't for the money so it's fair game really.

Marquez is a warrior, and did not want to let down all the fans, he has some respect for them.

So the career high fee he earned had nothing to do with it?

I don't think so, very unprofessional from Floyd, show his lack of respect for Marquez, for boxing and the fans.

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:47 pm

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
azania wrote:Didn't Floyd weigh in 2 lbs above JMM?

No he weighed 2lbs more than the agreed catchweight of 144lb, 4lbs heavier than marquez who weighed in at 142lb.

Regardless of what D4 says about it being 156lb (unsubstantiated lies, just guesswork) his in-ring weight is unrecorded.

Floyd refused to get on the ring scales for the first time, any ideas why he did this for this fight and the Mosley fight?

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:48 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:He did come in heavier and paid the fine. Marquez could still have walked away from the fight but didn't for the money so it's fair game really.

Marquez is a warrior, and did not want to let down all the fans, he has some respect for them.

So the career high fee he earned had nothing to do with it?

I don't think so, very unprofessional from Floyd, show his lack of respect for Marquez, for boxing and the fans.

So money had nothing to do with it? Why was he fighting at that weight in the first place then. How was it disrespectful to boxing and fans he isn't the first fighter to do it.

by azania Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:49 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:Didn't Floyd weigh in 2 lbs above JMM?

No

Can you post a link to their respective weigh in please.

by azania Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:49 pm

I'd laugh if SSM put a spanner in the works.

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:50 pm

prettyboy1304 wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:He did come in heavier and paid the fine. Marquez could still have walked away from the fight but didn't for the money so it's fair game really.

Marquez is a warrior, and did not want to let down all the fans, he has some respect for them.

So the career high fee he earned had nothing to do with it?

I don't think so, very unprofessional from Floyd, show his lack of respect for Marquez, for boxing and the fans.

So money had nothing to do with it? Why was he fighting at that weight in the first place then. How was it disrespectful to boxing and fans he isn't the first fighter to do it.

Marquez wanted the fight at 140lbs, Floyd said 147lbs, but they came to a compromise, Floyd never kept to his word, and gave Marquez a small fraction of what Floyd earned and a joke of a fine for purposefully coming in over.

by joeyjojo618 Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:51 pm

This thread has got nothing to do with Floyd D4, stopping taking it off topic.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:51 pm

he weighed in at 146 and marquez at 142 not that big a difference. If marquez wasn't getting paid so well he wouldn't have took the fight. He had a choice.

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:52 pm

prettyboy1304 wrote:He did come in heavier and paid the fine. Marquez could still have walked away from the fight but didn't for the money so it's fair game really.

Its not really fair game. The fine was a punishment, not a justification.

Its like saying I robbed someone but did my time in jail so that makes it ok.

Did Mayweather even end up paying the fine? I remember there was some issue over whether he had to pay it or not in the end. I think he had to pay Marquez but ended up dodging the commisision fine which would have been far greater.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:53 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
azania wrote:Didn't Floyd weigh in 2 lbs above JMM?

No he weighed 2lbs more than the agreed catchweight of 144lb, 4lbs heavier than marquez who weighed in at 142lb.

Regardless of what D4 says about it being 156lb (unsubstantiated lies, just guesswork) his in-ring weight is unrecorded.

Floyd refused to get on the ring scales for the first time, any ideas why he did this for this fight and the Mosley fight?

I have no idea. He probably weighed over 150lb and didnt want the significant weight advantage being public knowledge, despite it not being against any rules. Thats different from you categorically stating he was 156lb when you have no proof.

I read/heard that mayweather weighed 144lb bang on the night before the weigh in, but tipped the scales at 146 the following morning, tried to shift the weight but couldnt. Marquez made $600,000 out of it and wouldn't have stood anymore of a chance had floyd been 144lb anyway. It was a bit of a slap in the face, but there may have been mitigating circumstances, I dont know and the reality is neither do you D4, but you wont let a little thing like that stop you from making things up.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:54 pm

manos de piedra wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:He did come in heavier and paid the fine. Marquez could still have walked away from the fight but didn't for the money so it's fair game really.

Its not really fair game. The fine was a punishment, not a justification.

Its like saying I robbed someone but did my time in jail so that makes it ok.

Did Mayweather even end up paying the fine? I remember there was some issue over whether he had to pay it or not in the end. I think he had to pay Marquez but ended up dodging the commisision fine which would have been far greater.

As far as I know he paid never heard anything different. It's fairgame because Marquez could have walked away but never.

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr 2011, 7:57 pm

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
azania wrote:Didn't Floyd weigh in 2 lbs above JMM?

No he weighed 2lbs more than the agreed catchweight of 144lb, 4lbs heavier than marquez who weighed in at 142lb.

Regardless of what D4 says about it being 156lb (unsubstantiated lies, just guesswork) his in-ring weight is unrecorded.

Floyd refused to get on the ring scales for the first time, any ideas why he did this for this fight and the Mosley fight?

I have no idea. He probably weighed over 150lb and didnt want the significant weight advantage being public knowledge, despite it not being against any rules. Thats different from you categorically stating he was 156lb when you have no proof.

I read/heard that mayweather weighed 144lb bang on the night before the weigh in, but tipped the scales at 146 the following morning, tried to shift the weight but couldnt. Marquez made $600,000 out of it and wouldn't have stood anymore of a chance had floyd been 144lb anyway. It was a bit of a slap in the face, but there may have been mitigating circumstances, I dont know and the reality is neither do you D4, but you wont let a little thing like that stop you from making things up.

Yes that was Mayweather's story, don't tell me you buy that. He said he weighed 144lbs the night before, went to sleep got on the scales and weight 146, then went for a 10 mile run had no breakfast and still weighed 146lbs.

You are very naive if you believe this story.

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr 2011, 8:00 pm

prettyboy1304 wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:He did come in heavier and paid the fine. Marquez could still have walked away from the fight but didn't for the money so it's fair game really.

Its not really fair game. The fine was a punishment, not a justification.

Its like saying I robbed someone but did my time in jail so that makes it ok.

Did Mayweather even end up paying the fine? I remember there was some issue over whether he had to pay it or not in the end. I think he had to pay Marquez but ended up dodging the commisision fine which would have been far greater.

As far as I know he paid never heard anything different. It's fairgame because Marquez could have walked away but never.

He couldnt really have walked away because he would have been walking away from about 3 million dollars having incurred incurred significant training time, travel and expenses. He may have got his fine but it would be poor substitute.

Its entirely unreasonable to expect him to do this.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat 16 Apr 2011, 8:01 pm

No it's not if he was as unhappy about it as you and D4 were.

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr 2011, 8:04 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4485941

This article suggests that Mayweather never made 144 and had to change the contracts at short notice in order to avoid paying the State Commission fine for coming in over weight.

Marquez had little choice to but to accept or else risk the fight not happening.

Theres no justification for Mayweather on this one as far as Im concerned. The weight would have made no difference but the principle remains.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 16 Apr 2011, 8:05 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
azania wrote:Didn't Floyd weigh in 2 lbs above JMM?

No he weighed 2lbs more than the agreed catchweight of 144lb, 4lbs heavier than marquez who weighed in at 142lb.

Regardless of what D4 says about it being 156lb (unsubstantiated lies, just guesswork) his in-ring weight is unrecorded.

Floyd refused to get on the ring scales for the first time, any ideas why he did this for this fight and the Mosley fight?

I have no idea. He probably weighed over 150lb and didnt want the significant weight advantage being public knowledge, despite it not being against any rules. Thats different from you categorically stating he was 156lb when you have no proof.

I read/heard that mayweather weighed 144lb bang on the night before the weigh in, but tipped the scales at 146 the following morning, tried to shift the weight but couldnt. Marquez made $600,000 out of it and wouldn't have stood anymore of a chance had floyd been 144lb anyway. It was a bit of a slap in the face, but there may have been mitigating circumstances, I dont know and the reality is neither do you D4, but you wont let a little thing like that stop you from making things up.

Yes that was Mayweather's story, don't tell me you buy that. He said he weighed 144lbs the night before, went to sleep got on the scales and weight 146, then went for a 10 mile run had no breakfast and still weighed 146lbs.

You are very naive if you believe this story.

I didnt say i believed it, I said there may be mitigating circumstances - you simply do not know, his story could well be true - is there a logical explanation as to why he'd come in 2lb overweight? Would that give him a more significant advantage over a career featherweight? Probably not, plus he'd have to give up 2/3 of a million dollars. But you choose to believe the worst in mayweather everytime so pointless discussing it with you.

As for naive? Coming from the guy that believes pacquiaos needle weakness nonsense, blood tests causing the defeat against morales and just about every word Bob arum says, I think thats a bit rich. Pacquiao was overweight against Torrecampo and Singsurat, was he being disrespectful to them?

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat 16 Apr 2011, 8:06 pm

Look my point isn't that it was right but that Marquez could have walked away but didn't becaue of the money so it was fine for him so don't know why you have such a problem over 2lbs.

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr 2011, 8:07 pm

prettyboy1304 wrote:No it's not if he was as unhappy about it as you and D4 were.

No I would have done the same thing as Marquez but it doesnt justify it.

You are essentially advocaating fighters ignoring weight limits as long as they pay a fine.

Do you honestly think Marquez could have walked away from his purse of the fight in the circumstances? Be realistic. He had no choice but to accept.

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr 2011, 8:12 pm

Fighter are bound by a code of honour about making weight, and some times they have to do extreme thing to make weight to honour there agreement, it is pretty shameful when a fighter purposefully breaks that code.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 16 Apr 2011, 8:13 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:Fighter are bound by a code of honour about making weight, and some times they have to do extreme thing to make weight to honour there agreement, it is pretty shameful when a fighter purposefully breaks that code.

Pacquiao didnt make weight against singsurat or torrecampo.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat 16 Apr 2011, 8:15 pm

manos de piedra wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:No it's not if he was as unhappy about it as you and D4 were.

No I would have done the same thing as Marquez but it doesnt justify it.

You are essentially advocaating fighters ignoring weight limits as long as they pay a fine.

Do you honestly think Marquez could have walked away from his purse of the fight in the circumstances? Be realistic. He had no choice but to accept.

He could have walked away but didn't because of the money. I'm not saying it's fine to ignore weights so don't twist my words to suit you're arguement. I'm saying it's not a disgrace to the sport and that any problems JMM had with it were outweighed by the fee he earned.

by azania Sat 16 Apr 2011, 8:23 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:Fighter are bound by a code of honour about making weight, and some times they have to do extreme thing to make weight to honour there agreement, it is pretty shameful when a fighter purposefully breaks that code.

I know. Tha's why fighters shouldn't be asked to boil down to make weight. I'm certain you will agree.

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