Arum: Marquez next for Pacquiao.

by D4thincarnation Fri 15 Apr - 15:12

First topic message reminder :

The Mosley fight still has to play but Arum is already planing Pacquiao's next bout.

The fight will complete an thrilling trilogy, when Juan Manual Marquez step into the ring for a 3rd time.

There first fight was an epic battle Pacquiao knocking down Marquez 3 times in the first round only for Marquez to come back with the help of mistake by one of the judges to claim a draw.

The rematch was 4 years in the waiting but is was worth the wait, a great technical battle, his speed chess, Pacquiao put Marquez down again only the once but much more heavier knockdown that the previous ones.

The fight swayed back and forth and in the end Pacquiao sneaked a SD.

Since then they have both move up the weights, and had some impressive victories so what can we expect from the 3rd and probably final fight from these two greats.

Many of you were calling for this fight, and with Marquez being a free agent it should be easy to negotiate and will probably happen in November.

Pacquiao just has to get through Mosley now and the trilogy can be complete. Yahoo

http://www.boxingscene.com/pacquiao-vs-marquez-likely-next-manny-says-arum--38132

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr - 20:25

prettyboy1304 wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:No it's not if he was as unhappy about it as you and D4 were.

No I would have done the same thing as Marquez but it doesnt justify it.

You are essentially advocaating fighters ignoring weight limits as long as they pay a fine.

Do you honestly think Marquez could have walked away from his purse of the fight in the circumstances? Be realistic. He had no choice but to accept.

He could have walked away but didn't because of the money. I'm not saying it's fine to ignore weights so don't twist my words to suit you're arguement. I'm saying it's not a disgrace to the sport and that any problems JMM had with it were outweighed by the fee he earned.

You said it was "fair game" as long as the fine is paid. That to me implies its ok.

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr - 20:25

Maybe it ok to murder someone as long as you have a stint in jail.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat 16 Apr - 20:26

D4thincarnation wrote:Fighter are bound by a code of honour about making weight, and some times they have to do extreme thing to make weight to honour there agreement, it is pretty shameful when a fighter purposefully breaks that code.

How do you now he purposely did it? He had been inactive for 18 months.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 16 Apr - 20:28

D4thincarnation wrote:Maybe it ok to murder someone as long as you have a stint in jail.

Not like you to make a ridiculously OTT analogy where mayweather is concerned D4...

Pacquiao came in overweight against singsurat and torrecampo.

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr - 20:33

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Maybe it ok to murder someone as long as you have a stint in jail.

Not like you to make a ridiculously OTT analogy where mayweather is concerned D4...

Pacquiao came in overweight against singsurat and torrecampo.

Not purposefully and completely drained himself, and that contributed to his defeats, but at least Pacquiao had a much more fitting punishment and was forced to wear bigger gloves.

The fact that Mayweather done this purposefully make it shameful and lacking honour rather than just unprofessional.

by azania Sat 16 Apr - 20:35

D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Maybe it ok to murder someone as long as you have a stint in jail.

Not like you to make a ridiculously OTT analogy where mayweather is concerned D4...

Pacquiao came in overweight against singsurat and torrecampo.

Not purposefully and completely drained himself, and that contributed to his defeats, but at least Pacquiao had a much more fitting punishment and was forced to wear bigger gloves.

The fact that Mayweather done this purposefully make it shameful and lacking honour rather than just unprofessional.

Did Moralez being weight drained contribute to his defeats against Paq?

by joeyjojo618 Sat 16 Apr - 20:38

You have no evidence that he did it purposefully D4, you have just made that up to discredit the man. Again.

by azania Sat 16 Apr - 20:41

D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Maybe it ok to murder someone as long as you have a stint in jail.

Not like you to make a ridiculously OTT analogy where mayweather is concerned D4...

Pacquiao came in overweight against singsurat and torrecampo.

Not purposefully and completely drained himself, and that contributed to his defeats, but at least Pacquiao had a much more fitting punishment and was forced to wear bigger gloves.

The fact that Mayweather done this purposefully make it shameful and lacking honour rather than just unprofessional.

Opinion passed as fact.

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr - 20:44

azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Maybe it ok to murder someone as long as you have a stint in jail.

Not like you to make a ridiculously OTT analogy where mayweather is concerned D4...

Pacquiao came in overweight against singsurat and torrecampo.

Not purposefully and completely drained himself, and that contributed to his defeats, but at least Pacquiao had a much more fitting punishment and was forced to wear bigger gloves.

The fact that Mayweather done this purposefully make it shameful and lacking honour rather than just unprofessional.

Did Moralez being weight drained contribute to his defeats against Paq?

Morales was not weight drained. Pacquiao was more weight drained than Morales.

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr - 20:45

azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Maybe it ok to murder someone as long as you have a stint in jail.

Not like you to make a ridiculously OTT analogy where mayweather is concerned D4...

Pacquiao came in overweight against singsurat and torrecampo.

Not purposefully and completely drained himself, and that contributed to his defeats, but at least Pacquiao had a much more fitting punishment and was forced to wear bigger gloves.

The fact that Mayweather done this purposefully make it shameful and lacking honour rather than just unprofessional.

Opinion passed as fact.

Explain to me how Mayweather put on 2lbs in his sleep, and went for a 10 mile run and never lost an ounce?

Could it be that Floyd was lying Shocked

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 16 Apr - 20:46

D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Maybe it ok to murder someone as long as you have a stint in jail.

Not like you to make a ridiculously OTT analogy where mayweather is concerned D4...

Pacquiao came in overweight against singsurat and torrecampo.

Not purposefully and completely drained himself, and that contributed to his defeats, but at least Pacquiao had a much more fitting punishment and was forced to wear bigger gloves.

The fact that Mayweather done this purposefully make it shameful and lacking honour rather than just unprofessional.

You have zero proof that manny DIDNT come in overweight on purpose, just as have you have zero proof that mayweather DID. Your opinion is not fact D4, something you need to start realising.

by azania Sat 16 Apr - 20:46

D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Maybe it ok to murder someone as long as you have a stint in jail.

Not like you to make a ridiculously OTT analogy where mayweather is concerned D4...

Pacquiao came in overweight against singsurat and torrecampo.

Not purposefully and completely drained himself, and that contributed to his defeats, but at least Pacquiao had a much more fitting punishment and was forced to wear bigger gloves.

The fact that Mayweather done this purposefully make it shameful and lacking honour rather than just unprofessional.

Did Moralez being weight drained contribute to his defeats against Paq?

Come on D4. You know that is a nonsense. I have posted links here before showing Morales being wiight drained. Do you want me to post them again? Strangely after those links were posted you logged off at the time and didn't return for a couple of days.

Morales was not weight drained. Pacquiao was more weight drained than Morales.

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr - 20:47

Mayweather had the contracts changed in order to allow him to come in overweight. It meant he had to pay Marquez a private fine of 600k but it meant he avoided the much larger fine that the Nevada State Commission would have imposed of 20% of his purse.

Normally a few days is enough to drop a couple of pounds so unless he was well overweight in the days before the fight then there is reasonable grounds to say he didnt intend on getting down to 144 unless 20% of his purse was at stake.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4485941

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat 16 Apr - 20:47

D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Maybe it ok to murder someone as long as you have a stint in jail.

Not like you to make a ridiculously OTT analogy where mayweather is concerned D4...

Pacquiao came in overweight against singsurat and torrecampo.

Not purposefully and completely drained himself, and that contributed to his defeats, but at least Pacquiao had a much more fitting punishment and was forced to wear bigger gloves.

The fact that Mayweather done this purposefully make it shameful and lacking honour rather than just unprofessional.

Opinion passed as fact.

Explain to me how Mayweather put on 2lbs in his sleep, and went for a 10 mile run and never lost an ounce?

Could it be that Floyd was lying

You have no proof for your ridiculous statement Shocked

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr - 20:48

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Maybe it ok to murder someone as long as you have a stint in jail.

Not like you to make a ridiculously OTT analogy where mayweather is concerned D4...

Pacquiao came in overweight against singsurat and torrecampo.

Not purposefully and completely drained himself, and that contributed to his defeats, but at least Pacquiao had a much more fitting punishment and was forced to wear bigger gloves.

The fact that Mayweather done this purposefully make it shameful and lacking honour rather than just unprofessional.

You have zero proof that manny DIDNT come in overweight on purpose, just as have you have zero proof that mayweather DID. Your opinion is not fact D4, something you need to start realising.

Yes Manny wanted to wear the bigger gloves

Also moved up in weight after both occasions because he could not physically make the weight anymore.

Floyd never had any intention of making weight, but you probably believe is lies, even when the truth is staring you in the face.

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr - 20:50

prettyboy1304 wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Maybe it ok to murder someone as long as you have a stint in jail.

Not like you to make a ridiculously OTT analogy where mayweather is concerned D4...

Pacquiao came in overweight against singsurat and torrecampo.

Not purposefully and completely drained himself, and that contributed to his defeats, but at least Pacquiao had a much more fitting punishment and was forced to wear bigger gloves.

The fact that Mayweather done this purposefully make it shameful and lacking honour rather than just unprofessional.

Opinion passed as fact.

Explain to me how Mayweather put on 2lbs in his sleep, and went for a 10 mile run and never lost an ounce?

Could it be that Floyd was lying

You have no proof for your ridiculous statement

Floyd's own the words, just fine the clip of the weigh in and you will see Floyd on the jackanory

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 16 Apr - 20:50

D4 what you're saying about Mayweather is in fact libellous, as you or nobody else has proof that he deliberately broke contract agreements with marquez by purposefully coming in 2lb overweight. You do not know this to be a fact, so what you are doing is making an accusation based on your personal dislike of the man. Once again you are telling lies and trying to pass them as facts. If you can prove he did it on purpose then lets hear it?

by Guest Sat 16 Apr - 20:51

Right, enough is enough.
This thread is not a Floyd Manny debate.
We have all been here before.

Keep this thread on topic or it gets locked whilst i spend the next half hour or so moving comments.

by azania Sat 16 Apr - 20:52

Unless Floyd told you personally, you are passing opinion as fact.

I may as well say that Manny is juicing because of the list of ridiculous excuses he gave to avoid being tested. That would still me my opinion being passed as fact is I said it with the emphasis you use.

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr - 20:53

LAS VEGAS -- Floyd Mayweather Jr. weighed in at 146 pounds on Friday afternoon, two pounds heavier than the weight stipulated in the contract for his comeback fight against lightweight champion Juan Manuel Marquez on Saturday night at the MGM Grand Garden Arena.

The excess weight will cost Mayweather $300,000 per pound, meaning Marquez will get an additional $600,000 on top of his $3.2 million guarantee, a source told ESPN.com. Mayweather's minimum guarantee is $10 million, a figure likely to dramatically increase after the pay-per-view receipts are counted.

Marquez, who has never fought heavier than 135 pounds, comfortably made 142 pounds, two less than the 144-pound contract weight.

At Mayweather's request, nobody would speak publicly about the contract weight throughout the promotion that kicked off in early May and continued into the fall when the fight was postponed from July 18 because of a Mayweather rib injury.

However, several sources with direct knowledge of the contract told ESPN.com all along that the contract maximum weight was 144 pounds, three less than the 147-pound welterweight maximum.

But after Friday's weigh-in, Golden Boy CEO Richard Schaefer finally addressed the issue, telling ESPN.com, "The fight was contracted as a welterweight fight with an agreed upon weight of 144 pounds. However, there were pre-negotiated weight penalties built in."

Schaefer would not disclose the dollar figure, but another source with direct knowledge of the contract told ESPN.com that the penalty was $300,000 per pound if either fighter was overweight.

According to the source, the Marquez camp knew Wednesday night that Mayweather would not make weight because Mayweather's team made overtures to Golden Boy Promotions in an effort to have Marquez agree to change weight on the bout agreements to be filed with the Nevada State Athletic Commission.

However, Marquez's contract had already been filed reading 144 pounds, according to commission executive director Keith Kizer. But Kizer said the bout agreement was retrieved from the commission by Golden Boy Promotions and changed to 147 with Marquez initialing it.

Mayweather's contract with 147 pounds was not filed with the commission until minutes before the weigh-in. Kizer said it was supposed to be filed on Wednesday.

Kizer said the Mayweather camp asked to file it Thursday and he said OK, but that deadline also came and went.

"We were very unhappy with the lateness of Mr. Mayweather's contract," Kizer said.

Kizer said that had the bout agreements not been changed to 147, Mayweather would have faced a fine from the commission in addition to whatever penalty he had agreed to pay Marquez. For being two pounds overweight, Kizer said the penalty would have been 10 percent of his purse, or $1 million. Had he been three pounds over (147 pounds), the figure would have jumped to a 20 percent fine.

Dan Rafael is ESPN.com's boxing writer.

by D4thincarnation Sat 16 Apr - 20:53

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:D4 what you're saying about Mayweather is in fact libellous, as you or nobody else has proof that he deliberately broke contract agreements with marquez by purposefully coming in 2lb overweight. You do not know this to be a fact, so what you are doing is making an accusation based on your personal dislike of the man. Once again you are telling lies and trying to pass them as facts. If you can prove he did it on purpose then lets hear it?

There is a radio interview with him, where he gets asked is the fight at catchweight, and Floyd says no its at 147lbs, and the interviewer say we have been told it is at a catchweight of 144lbs and Floyd says trust me it will be at welter.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat 16 Apr - 20:53

You already posted the link for this, no need to go over it again

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 16 Apr - 20:58

D4thincarnation wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:D4 what you're saying about Mayweather is in fact libellous, as you or nobody else has proof that he deliberately broke contract agreements with marquez by purposefully coming in 2lb overweight. You do not know this to be a fact, so what you are doing is making an accusation based on your personal dislike of the man. Once again you are telling lies and trying to pass them as facts. If you can prove he did it on purpose then lets hear it?

There is a radio interview with him, where he gets asked is the fight at catchweight, and Floyd says no its at 147lbs, and the interviewer say we have been told it is at a catchweight of 144lbs and Floyd says trust me it will be at welter.

Is that an admission? as I said before, you are doing what you always do and are making up lies and trying to pass them off as fact. You cannot prove mayweather deliberately broke conntract, anymore than you can prove manny didnt fail to make weight intentionally. One of these days you might just bring a lawsuit against this forum due to your unhealthy obsession!

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr - 21:02

You might not be specifically able to prove Mayweather intended to come in overweight but you cant ignore that there is evidence to suggest it could be the case. Pretty reasonable evidence coming from executives of Golden Boy and the Nevada State Commission.

People are so used with arguing with D4 out of habit that they seem to not to be considering this.

A stopped clock is right twice a day and all that....

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat 16 Apr - 21:07

manos de piedra wrote:You might not be specifically able to prove Mayweather intended to come in overweight but you cant ignore that there is evidence to suggest it could be the case. Pretty reasonable evidence coming from executives of Golden Boy and the Nevada State Commission.

People are so used with arguing with D4 out of habit that they seem to not to be considering this.

A stopped clock is right twice a day and all that....

You said it you can't specifically prove he intended to come in over weight so you can't state it as fact.

by joeyjojo618 Sat 16 Apr - 21:09

Im slightly puzzled by the whole thing now though; does that article prove that he never intended to come in at 147? If that was the case, then why didnt they just set the contract at 147 to begin with, as Im sure Marquez would have signed it for the money he was getting. It doesnt make sense that he would change it at the last and have to pay out to Marquez.

Sorry Y I man, thats my last word on the subject!

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 16 Apr - 21:11

manos de piedra wrote:You might not be specifically able to prove Mayweather intended to come in overweight but you cant ignore that there is evidence to suggest it could be the case. Pretty reasonable evidence coming from executives of Golden Boy and the Nevada State Commission.

People are so used with arguing with D4 out of habit that they seem to not to be considering this.

A stopped clock is right twice a day and all that....

If I had to stake my life on whether mayweather did it on purpose or not I know what i'd choose.

But thats not to say he didnt weigh 144 the night before but woke up overweight and just couldnt shift it in time for the weigh in. Its not totally implausable, just less likely than the alternative, but the truth is we - nor D4 - know for certain as we weren't involved, and its never been proved either way.

D4 tries to pass his own opinion off as cold hard fact and it invariably involves his opinion being the worst of mayweather and cutting manny every bit of slack available, he shouldnt be allowed to get away with making things up and telling lies to suit his agenda, it is not what a forum is about IMO.

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr - 21:27

joeyjojo618 wrote:Im slightly puzzled by the whole thing now though; does that article prove that he never intended to come in at 147? If that was the case, then why didnt they just set the contract at 147 to begin with, as Im sure Marquez would have signed it for the money he was getting. It doesnt make sense that he would change it at the last and have to pay out to Marquez.

Sorry Y I man, thats my last word on the subject!

He changed it two days before the weigh in. The assumption is he wasnt going to make 144 so he knew one way or another he would be forced to pay Marquez. However if he breached the weight under the contract he would be also forced to pay a heftier fine to the Nevada State Commission which could have been as much as 2million depending on how heavy he came in.

He knew he wasnt going to make 144 so he got the contracts changed in order to avoid the second penalty. As Marquez was getting his fine anyway, it was no benefit to him not to resign at the 147 limit because if he didnt he risked the fight not happening and would lose his own share of the purse. So it was the lesser of two evils.

Now given that Mayweather got Marquez to change the contracted weight limit as early as two days before the weigh in and was only 2 pounds over suggests that either 1) He didnt want to drag himself down to 144 and go through th effort of boiling down right before the fight and was happy to the fine to avoid doing so, or 2)He was so far over the weight at the time that he knew even his best efforts would see him still come in over weight, or he would be forced to seriously drain himself to make it - thus impacting his effectiveness.

So either you believe Mayweather botched his weight so badly that even days before the weigh in he knew he couldnt get down, or he was ok with paying the fine to Marquez in order to avoid the effort of boiling down a few days before the fight.

Im sure when the contract was originally signed Mayweather intended to make 144 but its reasonable to think that in the week coming up to the fight he decided that 144 wa too much effort and simply decided to pay the fine rather than have to go through the arduos process and risk draining himself for fight night.

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr - 21:36

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:You might not be specifically able to prove Mayweather intended to come in overweight but you cant ignore that there is evidence to suggest it could be the case. Pretty reasonable evidence coming from executives of Golden Boy and the Nevada State Commission.

People are so used with arguing with D4 out of habit that they seem to not to be considering this.

A stopped clock is right twice a day and all that....

If I had to stake my life on whether mayweather did it on purpose or not I know what i'd choose.

But thats not to say he didnt weigh 144 the night before but woke up overweight and just couldnt shift it in time for the weigh in. Its not totally implausable, just less likely than the alternative, but the truth is we - nor D4 - know for certain as we weren't involved, and its never been proved either way.

D4 tries to pass his own opinion off as cold hard fact and it invariably involves his opinion being the worst of mayweather and cutting manny every bit of slack available, he shouldnt be allowed to get away with making things up and telling lies to suit his agenda, it is not what a forum is about IMO.

Well we know from Golden Boy and NSC that Mayweather began looking to change the contracts days before the weigh in. So its safe to say he didnt just wake up the night of the weigh in and find himself 2 pounds over. He knew one way or another he would not make 144 without draining himself.

You may not be able to state as fact exactly if Mayweather intended to come in over. I think on the basis of the evidence available its obvious he did intend to come in over at some point. Exactly when I dont know but certainly on the day of the weigh in he knew he would be over and made no effort to boil down to 144. Once he got the contracts changed then he wasnt inclined to bother attempting to make 144 at all. However obviously when the contract was originally made he may well have intended to make the 144 limit but for whatever reason didnt manage his weight well and rather than risk leaving himself drained he was happy to pay Marquez the fine.

D4 may be incorrect to express his opinion as fact but equally I dont think one can dismiss a valid opinion even its its incorrectly stated as a fact.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 16 Apr - 21:38

Manos your point only further proves mine - that we dont really know for sure.

I seriously doubt mayweather would have signed for a fight at 144lb with the intention of deliberately coming in overweight resulting in him having to hand over $600k, which is what D4 is suggesting.

His trying to get the contract changed at the 11th hour is suggestive of him struggling to get down to 144 at the end of his training and wanting to take the sting out of his punishment, knowing he was gonna be over the limit. I dont believe a man as cash obsessed as mayweather would purposefully throw away $600k for the sake of a 2lb advantage against a career featherweight. More likely he just couldnt cut it after 21 months out and had to take his medicine.

by manos de piedra Sat 16 Apr - 21:54

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Manos your point only further proves mine - that we dont really know for sure.

I seriously doubt mayweather would have signed for a fight at 144lb with the intention of deliberately coming in overweight resulting in him having to hand over $600k, which is what D4 is suggesting.

His trying to get the contract changed at the 11th hour is suggestive of him struggling to get down to 144 at the end of his training and wanting to take the sting out of his punishment, knowing he was gonna be over the limit. I dont believe a man as cash obsessed as mayweather would purposefully throw away $600k for the sake of a 2lb advantage against a career featherweight. More likely he just couldnt cut it after 21 months out and had to take his medicine.

Well its not that straightforward because there can be a big implication as to the effects of draining. If Mayweather was forced to get the sweat suit on, go without water and food and start running kilometers a couple of days before the fight then this has implications. We saw with De la Hoya how bad getting it wrong can be.

Instead not only did Mayweather not have to go through this but he also had the luxury then of actually being able to come in heavier.

The majority of fighters make the effort to make the weight even if it means going through hell to make it and the argument is Mayweather knew he wasnt well in advance and wasnt bothered even trying. Instead he decided to just pay Marquez and effectively force him to rewrite the contract for Mayweathers own benefit.

To add to this, there no real excuse for Mayweather not to make 144. Hes famous for keeping in shape and keeping his walk around weight close to his fighting weight. I personally find it rather suspicious that he could struggle to make 144 when even outside training camp hes not more than a stone above it. Its not like De la Hoya dropping several divisions to fight in one he hadnt been in a decade. I can sympathize with Oscar making a mess of the weights to some extent. But its pretty hard to justify it for Mayweather and supports the idea he just wasnt bothered making weight.

by Guest Sat 16 Apr - 21:57

Guys
This is not a Floyd Manny debate article.
Its about Marquez being next for Pacquiao.

Keep it on topic.

Cheers
Y I Man

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 16 Apr - 22:10

Y I Man wrote:Guys
This is not a Floyd Manny debate article.
Its about Marquez being next for Pacquiao.

Keep it on topic.

Cheers
Y I Man

Well Ive already made my views clear on that matter - ie if its made at 147 it leaves a degree of ambiguity for marquez' preparation as there's always the risk manny may come in as heavy as he did against clottey, which could result in JMM being outweighed on the scales by half a stone. If its at 140 everyone knows where they stand, and given that marquez is a lightweight moving up and manny has this week said he is a natural 140lber this seems both the logical and fair thing to do. I'd expect marquez to give manny a good fight as he's a bit of a stylistic nightmare for manny, an intelligent fighter with an iron chin and warriors heart. But the fact is manny's in his prime whereas marquez has passed his IMO, and mannys increased physicality, speed and comparative youth will be too much for marquez, who will lose a decision.

Said all there is to say on both the manny v marquez fight and the mayweather weight making issue. Its not my intention to defend mayweather as such, but to rally against D4's blatant lies and debate wrecking agenda.

Gonna respect Y I Mans wishes now and cut out of this thread censored

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sun 17 Apr - 1:34

Marquez vs Pac won't happen imo. As far as I was aware Pac wasn't interested and Marquez was fighting Judah. I don't see Marquez getting past Judah at 140. Judah only lost once at 140 and that was to a prime Kostya Tszyu in 2001. Judah looked very good against Mabuza and is working on his defence with Pernell Whittaker. The last time Marquez stepped up in weight it was to 147 but he never looked good and Judah is very quick and a big hitter.
At 37 don't see him beating Pac anyway but he needs to be careful because their is a lot of young guys around who would love to take him out.

by azania Sun 17 Apr - 1:40

I wonder if Pac would man up and fight someone like Judah.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sun 17 Apr - 1:52

azania wrote:I wonder if Pac would man up and fight someone like Judah.

That would be more interesting at 140 than Marquez. Judah is a great LWW and would give Bradley and Khan hell.

by Scottrf Sun 17 Apr - 10:04

5 pages? The puppet master wins again.

by D4thincarnation Sun 17 Apr - 18:42

Well at least now we can stop all this rubbish about Berto being good young unbeaten welterweight champion and Pacquiao should fight him.

See how you perceptions of fighters can be wrong when they only take the easy fights.

by azania Sun 17 Apr - 18:46

D4thincarnation wrote:Well at least now we can stop all this rubbish about Berto being good young unbeaten welterweight champion and Pacquiao should fight him.

See how you perceptions of fighters can be wrong when they only take the easy fights.

He should have at least tried to fight him as he was a belt holder. Why did he duck Berto?

by D4thincarnation Sun 17 Apr - 18:57

azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Well at least now we can stop all this rubbish about Berto being good young unbeaten welterweight champion and Pacquiao should fight him.

See how you perceptions of fighters can be wrong when they only take the easy fights.

He should have at least tried to fight him as he was a belt holder. Why did he duck Berto?

Because he wanted to take on the best, and at welterweight that was Mosley.

by azania Sun 17 Apr - 18:59

D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Well at least now we can stop all this rubbish about Berto being good young unbeaten welterweight champion and Pacquiao should fight him.

See how you perceptions of fighters can be wrong when they only take the easy fights.

He should have at least tried to fight him as he was a belt holder. Why did he duck Berto?

Because he wanted to take on the best, and at welterweight that was Mosley.

by D4thincarnation Sun 17 Apr - 19:01

azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Well at least now we can stop all this rubbish about Berto being good young unbeaten welterweight champion and Pacquiao should fight him.

See how you perceptions of fighters can be wrong when they only take the easy fights.

He should have at least tried to fight him as he was a belt holder. Why did he duck Berto?

Because he wanted to take on the best, and at welterweight that was Mosley.

Yeah you probably think Berto still beats Mosley.

by **HumanWindmill** Sun 17 Apr - 19:03

D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Well at least now we can stop all this rubbish about Berto being good young unbeaten welterweight champion and Pacquiao should fight him.

See how you perceptions of fighters can be wrong when they only take the easy fights.

He should have at least tried to fight him as he was a belt holder. Why did he duck Berto?

Because he wanted to take on the best, and at welterweight that was Mosley.

Yeah you probably think Berto still beats Mosley.

And you probably think Khan beats Mayweather.

by azania Sun 17 Apr - 19:04

D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Well at least now we can stop all this rubbish about Berto being good young unbeaten welterweight champion and Pacquiao should fight him.

See how you perceptions of fighters can be wrong when they only take the easy fights.

He should have at least tried to fight him as he was a belt holder. Why did he duck Berto?

Because he wanted to take on the best, and at welterweight that was Mosley.

Yeah you probably think Berto still beats Mosley.

Actually I do. SSM is more shot than JFK.

by D4thincarnation Sun 17 Apr - 19:08

azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Well at least now we can stop all this rubbish about Berto being good young unbeaten welterweight champion and Pacquiao should fight him.

See how you perceptions of fighters can be wrong when they only take the easy fights.

He should have at least tried to fight him as he was a belt holder. Why did he duck Berto?

Because he wanted to take on the best, and at welterweight that was Mosley.

Yeah you probably think Berto still beats Mosley.

Actually I do. SSM is more shot than JFK.

So it just not pre 1950s boxing you know little about?

I said it for a long time about Berto, but if you just taking easy fights people will think you are great.

by azania Sun 17 Apr - 19:25

Well I never rated Berto. It shows how much I rate Pac also.

by **HumanWindmill** Sun 17 Apr - 19:29

azania wrote:Well I never rated Berto. It shows how much I rate Pac also.

Ouch. That's gotta hurt.

by D4thincarnation Sun 17 Apr - 19:30

HumanWindmill wrote:
azania wrote:Well I never rated Berto. It shows how much I rate Pac also.

Ouch. That's gotta hurt.

But all the people he has never rated are some of the greatest boxers of all time, so Pacquiao is in good company.

by **HumanWindmill** Sun 17 Apr - 19:32

D4thincarnation wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:
azania wrote:Well I never rated Berto. It shows how much I rate Pac also.

Ouch. That's gotta hurt.

But all the people he has never rated are some of the greatest boxers of all time, so Pacquiao is in good company.

Can't argue with that.

by AlexHuckerby Sun 17 Apr - 19:33

I think Pac's improved too much for Marquez is more powerful, perhaps not QUITE as quick but neither is Marquez lost a slight bit - can't see anything other than a Pac win...

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