Could this be the year the Scarlets planning all comes to fruitition...?

First topic message reminder :

Jonathan Davies was keen to suggest they are looking a tidy team this year with their new recruits, new management and their young stars maturing nicely...!

Could this be their year...?

Could they win the double..?

a scrum that can only go in reverse yet won two against the head when we played Glasgow?

I think there has been some sensible collaboration there between the board the coaches and the Accademy to work out who and when they need OS players.

Let's hope the youngsters benefit from the experience.

rugbydreamer wrote:a scrum that can only go in reverse yet won two against the head when we played Glasgow?

Didn't we win a fair few scrums in the Leinster game as well?

maestegmafia wrote:I think there has been some sensible collaboration there between the board the coaches and the Accademy to work out who and when they need OS players.

Let's hope the youngsters benefit from the experience.

Yup I agree - also forgot to mention in my post that even though we've brought in 5 overseas players this summer, Earle is a project player and Ball is WQ also I don't believe Adriaanse has been capped by SA so could be put in the project player bracket.

I think two more solid seasons built on this type of platform then all us Scarlet fans can get excited,
we are still a youthful team ,
a team full of old wise and street smart players would still wipe the floor with us.

rugbydreamer wrote:a scrum that can only go in reverse yet won two against the head when we played Glasgow?

Not sure what game you watched, I don't recall any scrums going against the head during the match. There were lots of penalties some against Ulster and some against the Scarlets, but I certainly dont recall TWO strikes against the head!

Against Ulster? Def not sure what game you watched? lol

Not sure what game you were watching seagul, but we definitely won two against the head. Got destroyed in a couple as well. Twas v hit and miss.

rugbydreamer wrote:Not sure what game you were watching seagul, but we definitely won two against the head. Got destroyed in a couple as well. Twas v hit and miss.

I recall tha Scarlets winning penalties at scrums which were Glasgow put in, there was clearly a lot going on and the ref was struggling to keep tabs on it. But I certainly do not recall them taking scrums any "against the head", if fact I can't remember that last time I saw a Scarlets scrum win any "against the head".

Missed the Leinster game due to work and had to watch the Glasgow game on a crap internet stream, but the main difference I'd say from last season, and something that has improved year on year (as in Welsh rugby generally), is the clinical ability. Based on the Glasgow game, whilst they didn't offer much in terms of threat, Scarlets dealt with what was thrown against them, and the superior running ability, though disappointingly infrequent, ended in tries. We're still some way short though: a true 'champion' team would have kicked on and got that fourth try in the last 10-15.

European group is exciting as we'll still have to rely on our running ability to offset what will likely be a beaten pack in the tight. Backrow is quality (and whilst I understand Gog's appointment as captain, I don't see him still holding the position in two seasons' time), but the signings don't scream top drawer. Some seem better than others, and we'll have to see how they fit in. That said, a bit of South African 'grunt' is exactly what we need, pehaps a leaf taken out of Ulster's recruitment book, Saffas and academy players? I think Pro12 top 4 is a necessity this year, especially if we're out of Europe before the 6N; we've been very close challengers in the last two seasons (5th by a few points), so it's necessary for the progression. However, a HC QF would be very nice as well.



As for the Scarlets and the Lions, it's not inconceivable we have several. I think most Scarlets fans have known how good Ken Owens is for years. Lack of opportunity and bad luck with injury has robbed him of 20 odd caps over the last three seasons. Hooker appears to be between Hibbard, Rees and Owens for Wales, with Bennett out of the picture. For the Lions, Ford and Best are likely to be nailed on. I do like Hartley, good leadership/confrontational ability, and it's possible no Welsh hooker could do. But factor in the potential of injury to any of the main contenders, and the fact we have two possible international starters at the club means, in terms of averages, if nothing else, makes it a high possiblity of a Scarlet hooker going. George North is a certainty, barring injury. Likewise JD2. He and BOD will compete for the 13 shirt, no specialist comes close (Tuilagi has a huge outside shot, can't see Barritt making it, Hogg as utility back?). So I'd say two are certainties.

Priestland is highly likely. Although he's barely eighteen months into his international career (yeah, just consider that again for a second), and only really installed himself as first choice this time last year, this is probably the most obvious position where the Lions are lacking both quality and depth. If Priestland keeps the Welsh shirt, with Biggar the only realistic contender, he gives himself a great chance if his form is adequate or better. Sexton is first choice at the moment, and I suppose Flood/Farrell/(Ford?) could/will go (the former highly likely, and my preference, but if Farrell is maintained for for England...). I have doubts over Laidlaw for Scotland let alone the Lions. In reality, this isn't a position like wing where you have bolters. It's a key role, and Gatland will be conservative. Due to lack of options at 10, I can't see him not going if he plays well enough to start the AI and then keep the shirt. He needs to up his game though, and his performances are still highly reliant upon confidence (could his need to kick for the Scarlets at all times due to no other kicker be detrimental or positive in this respect...?).

I make that two certainties and two highly probables. Scott Williams has a great chance of making the centres if he can make the most of Roberts' likely absences for Wales (and possibly the Lions, he's very injury prone), and no one else steps up in the season, but centre is a good position for in form players to be picked for (unlike 10). The two picks for me, the 'bolters', from the Scarlets who could conceivably make the tour are Shingler and Liam Williams. Both have had a great 12 months. If 1/2P gets injured, Liam Williams in the only 15 in Wales playing at a good enough level (I'd even go as far as saying the only 15, though 1/2P was the most positive aspect of the Oz tour). He'll get capped, and is only a few injuries away, and the sustaining of his current form, for putting himself in with a chance. It's a highly contested position, with realistically two/three places: Kearney and 1/2P probably occupy them at the moment. Mike Brown, Foden and Hogg are all up there with him, he's in with a real shout if capped a few times this season/Scarlets are successful in PRO12/HC (Gatland's interview mentioned need to be in successful club side if not playing international). Shingler is like a younger Tom Croft: the back row competition is incredible, and there could conceivably be a Test XV made up of any one of the Celtic nations, or Robshaw and Haskell +1. He'd need quite a substantial amount of injuries to get on the tour, or an injury to Lydiate prior to AI/6N and fantastic form. He looks quality though, and Croft-esque: athletic, incredible pace, great condition, and most importantly for an outside shot at a Lions place, can play 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8.

So there we have it. Not out of the question to have quite a few players on the Tour. Hopefully, injury permitting, we'll have two definities, maybe even in the starting XV.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I think there has been some sensible collaboration there between the board the coaches and the Accademy to work out who and when they need OS players.

Let's hope the youngsters benefit from the experience.

Yup I agree - also forgot to mention in my post that even though we've brought in 5 overseas players this summer, Earle is a project player and Ball is WQ also I don't believe Adriaanse has been capped by SA so could be put in the project player bracket.

Our summer signings in the pack

Adriaanse - not capped,
Earle - not capped,
Ball - welsh qualified
Snyman - not capped,
Vallejos - Argentinian international

So our NWQ list is Adriaanse, Earle, Snyman, Manu, Timani, Vallejos. However Snyman, Earle and Adriaanse have all signed 3 year contracts and will be WQ by the end of those contracts.

Well there we go

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I think there has been some sensible collaboration there between the board the coaches and the Accademy to work out who and when they need OS players.

Let's hope the youngsters benefit from the experience.

Yup I agree - also forgot to mention in my post that even though we've brought in 5 overseas players this summer, Earle is a project player and Ball is WQ also I don't believe Adriaanse has been capped by SA so could be put in the project player bracket.

Our summer signings in the pack

Adriaanse - not capped,
Earle - not capped,
Ball - welsh qualified
Snyman - not capped,
Vallejos - Argentinian international

So our NWQ list is Adriaanse, Earle, Snyman, Manu, Timani, Vallejos. However Snyman, Earle and Adriaanse have all signed 3 year contracts and will be WQ by the end of those contracts.

Excellent. Scarlets doing their bit to expand the Welsh player pool.

Doesn't necessarily mean these guys will ever be capped by the WRU though.

But I don't see why them not being capped is better than them being capped. People have even started calling them project players a la Ireland. Shameful. Nothing wrong with capping them once they're qualified as they're qualified. But equally don't treat them any different if they're not qualified.

The only reason they r classd as project players is bcoz we can have up2 2 project players in our squad and if these players (earle and snyman) werent classed as project players wed lose those 2 slots. I doubt either would play for wales and it should improve the quality of young forward the scarlets are developing.

Not sure why its shameful too call them project players as that is what the wru (and iru and i assume the erfu) designate them. Its mainly for nwq quota purposes - and the scarlets have brought these players in to improve their scrum, not to allow them to play for wales

Can't believe we're getting a bad time of this when

1. We've openly said we've brought in most of the NWQ to help develop our own WQ forwards.
2. We don't have a single NWQ back in our squad
3. The positions we've recruited in, as already pointed out if only people could be bothered to read it, means that we are unlikely to start any games with more than 3 NWQ in our match day squad, if that. Seriously can't see the problem.

By the way cheers SS for the info

Smirnoffpriest wrote:The only reason they r classd as project players is bcoz we can have up2 2 project players in our squad and if these players (earle and snyman) werent classed as project players wed lose those 2 slots. I doubt either would play for wales and it should improve the quality of young forward the scarlets are developing.

Not sure why its shameful too call them project players as that is what the wru (and iru and i assume the erfu) designate them. Its mainly for nwq quota purposes - and the scarlets have brought these players in to improve their scrum, not to allow them to play for wales

The fact the WRU distinguish between player who may or may not end up qualified for Wales is shameful (IMO). If the WRU have started calling them project players (I didn't think they did original) then shame on them. The whole thing smacks of encouraging the regions to bring in players to play for Wales one day. Whether they're good enough to play for Wales or not is completely irrelevant. Either have 8 NWQ players as the limit or have 6. Stop fannying about in between.

They don't at all Thunor, and if you read anything said by the likes on Easterby then NWQ players are only signed for the benefit of Welsh rugby on the whole. We aren't allowed to sign just anyone anymore.

Sorry, just to be clear this isn't a dig at the Scarlets. This is about the supposed different between 'project' players and NQ players. I think Unions shouldn't distinguish between the two. I also don't think they should distinguish between qualified players based on how they get qualified.

I'm a big believer in having foreign players come in and raise the generally level that the young players have to reach. Making them earn their spot. If, of course there aren't qualified players up to the standard.

That second bit, is exactly what the Scarlets are doing, this whole 'project' player debate has arisen from posters criticising what the Scarlets are doing, despite them having demonstrated they are the most committed region to developing young Welsh talent. Go figure!

Thunor - I don't agree with the project player tag, or time serving or whatever the current term for them may be. A player is either welsh or not. The regions are currently allowed to have 6 capped NWQ players and an additional 2 uncapped NWQ players. And seeing as those are the rules, whether the player intends on leaving the country after their three year contract, or intend on 'becoming' welsh, or just don't intend on playing international at all, the Scarlets are not taking the urine with these signings. We are below our limits, and theoretically if we keep the same squad for the next three years could be left with only 3 NWQs (Manu, Timani and Vallejos) in the squad. Over the summer we lost Ben Morgan, Sean Lamont, Villiame Iongi, Damian Welch and Matt Gilbert, so technically we have no more NWQs now than we did at the start of last season (actually less as we had Ruki Tipuna for a while too), when we were being lawded up on here for developing young welsh talent.

We have also signed two welsh locks from feeder teams to other regions (Kelly and Rawlings) and have promoted some of the locks from within the regions too (Joe Galley). I think the major reason people are seeing it as an issue is because we have now got all of our NWQs slotting into shirts 3-5 and nowhere else, which makes them seem more obvious.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Thunor - I don't agree with the project player tag, or time serving or whatever the current term for them may be. A player is either welsh or not. The regions are currently allowed to have 6 capped NWQ players and an additional 2 uncapped NWQ players. And seeing as those are the rules, whether the player intends on leaving the country after their three year contract, or intend on 'becoming' welsh, or just don't intend on playing international at all, the Scarlets are not taking the urine with these signings. We are below our limits, and theoretically if we keep the same squad for the next three years could be left with only 3 NWQs (Manu, Timani and Vallejos) in the squad. Over the summer we lost Ben Morgan, Sean Lamont, Villiame Iongi, Damian Welch and Matt Gilbert, so technically we have no more NWQs now than we did at the start of last season (actually less as we had Ruki Tipuna for a while too), when we were being lawded up on here for developing young welsh talent.

We have also signed two welsh locks from feeder teams to other regions (Kelly and Rawlings) and have promoted some of the locks from within the regions too (Joe Galley). I think the major reason people are seeing it as an issue is because we have now got all of our NWQs slotting into shirts 3-5 and nowhere else, which makes them seem more obvious.

but in those 1-5 slots you also have some very young high potential talent, like Rhodri Jones, Sampson Lee etc.

I like what Scarlets are doing. They have offered these young guys three year contracts before they have proven to be able to perform at elite levels

Maesteg, Rhodri will clearly get a lot of game time this year, but in rugby, as the number on the shirt decreases, it becomes harder to just throw in a youngster and expect them to swim rather than sink. Front row especially favours those experienced in the grizzled 'dark arts', and it will do both players no harm having someone to compete with and learn off. Samson Lee is undoubtedly talented and will, hopefully, see some game time this season for the region, but it's naive to suggest that, at 19, he should be starting a significant amount of games: to have him hammered when up against HC scrums would be of little benefit to his progress, and it would be of little benefit to the Scarlets' possible progression and success.

I don't really understand the argument here. Decent NWQ or senior players in positions we clearly needed improving in does not hamper promising players. Look at the development of Ben Morgan, Turnbull and McCusker under Lyons, Priestland under Stephen Jones. At the moment, the Scarlets have the fewest NWQ players in their side, alongside the Dragons, but unlike the Dragons we're producing a lot of players who are making that step up to the national team. Which, in terms of what regionalism was brought in for, arguably makes us the most successful region in this sense. What we need to do now, as a team, is start winning more: matches and trophies. For the lack of a strong forward pack we could/should have been in the play offs, especially last season. Perhaps now, with these signings, this will be less of an issue, but the quality of the signings remains to be seen.

miaow wrote:
I don't really understand the argument here. Decent NWQ or senior players in positions we clearly needed improving in does not hamper promising players. Look at the development of Ben Morgan, Turnbull and McCusker under Lyons, Priestland under Stephen Jones. At the moment, the Scarlets have the fewest NWQ players in their side, alongside the Dragons, but unlike the Dragons we're producing a lot of players who are making that step up to the national team. Which, in terms of what regionalism was brought in for, arguably makes us the most successful region in this sense. What we need to do now, as a team, is start winning more: matches and trophies. For the lack of a strong forward pack we could/should have been in the play offs, especially last season. Perhaps now, with these signings, this will be less of an issue, but the quality of the signings remains to be seen.

Totally agree, and unfortunately particularly with the last sentence