T20 World Cup: Live Matches Discussion

First topic message reminder :

Please feel free to discuss every ball of the 2012 T20 World Cup here.

Who do you think will win?

india choking under the pressure of putting a BIG BIG total.

They should paly with an air of nothing to lose

rohit block, block block...preparing himsefl ofr the big one...and then got out tamely
India should forget a big win...and just aim for a simple win

3 days in a row a team has been 123 for 5

(I know, it's a terrible pun. But I still grin every time I see it)

139/5, 15 balls to go.

160 is very gettable now

so SA need 153 to win, India need to restrict them to 121 or less to go through.

Nice little cameo by Dhoni and a good innings by Raina have given them half a chance, and the fact that SA have nothing to lose so will go all out for the 153 will increase that, but I don't think India's bowling is good enough really.

121 for SA to ruin the party.

Seems too little too late for India

Early wickets for India, Amla and Kallis both gone.

de Villiers the key obviously.

3 consecutive overs for both Zaheer and Pathan. The 3rd one proves expensive. Again. When will Dhoni learn?

Yuvraj gets AB first ball! Is there hope for India yet?

Du Plessis showing why he should probably have replaced the very ordinary Levi much earlier in this SA line-up.

Balaji showing why India should almost certainly have gone in with two spinners...

also, why on earth has Dhoni only given Ashwin one over so far?!?!

SA are on course to not only take India with them, but also register their first win in super 8s. du Plessis justifying his selection with a fine knock.

good stuff MFC, double jinx there

Du Plessis gets out, and Yuvraj has another wicket. Still, a very fine innings from Du Plessis, and India need to take the last six wickets for 26 or less, a big ask when you see how deep the SA line-up looks.

Behardien in now, another player I'm firmly unconvinced about...

Yuvraj gets du Plessis, but too late for India to go through.

Where has South Africa's choking skills gone just when you need them???

SA only choke when there's something to play for

here's Ashwin, but surely too late for India now?

I remember one of their historic chokes was against India in a Champion's Trophy semi final when Virender's off spinn denied SA despite a dominating hundred from Gibbs. History is extremely unlikely to repeat itself. Perhaps Dhoni should bring Sehwag on after all!.

why is the frankly rubbish Balaji still bowling? surely Zaheer?

Dhoni's captaincy has confused me. He's kept Ashwin back until the game (in the sense of qualification) has more or less gone. He bowls Zaheer and pathan 3 overs each in the PP.

Yuvraj has bowled nicely again, he's a more than decent ODI/T20 bowler with the way he varries his flight and good quicker arm ball.

has Dhoni given up on qualification and is just trying for a consolation win? only reason I can come up with...

MFC's tremendous jinxing powers strike again, the "frankly rubbish" Balaji getting rid of Duminy (pretty average knock, needed to take charge when Du Plessis got out).

Let's see if I can produce another one: India still have no chance of going through..

Peterson in ahead of Morkel? interesting move by all accounts...

the choke is on

Peterson plays the switch hit and hits it straight to backward point.

Interesting now. 109/6. Can India pull this off?

whoops, it's a no-ball

how can you overstep by that much off a three pace run up? unforgivable, absolutely unforgivable...

Off a no-ball! Oh dear.

and still Balaji is bowling...

a slightly irrelevant talking point: if Balaji takes that in front of the stumps, is Peterson run out? would have been much closer.

Pakistan through to the semi-finals, and to be fair, they deserve it after the way they won today...

And India head out

GSC wrote:And India head out

Poor Shanky.

Zaheer belatedly into the attack, and immediately picks up a wicket. I know it was always going to be difficult, but Dhoni's captaincy should be questioned here.

guildfordbat wrote:

GSC wrote:And India head out

Poor Shanky.

my heart bleeds

make that two in two for Zaheer, why was he not bowling earlier?

India out. As an associate supporter I am both pleased and sad; pleased because I don't like the way India run cricket; sad because unfortunately India not reaching the final stages of the tournament means that formats requiring the final stages of the tournament to be delayed as long as possible so as to allow India to stay in the tournament as long as possible will continue to be sought. At the detriment of competitive and inclusive cricket.

*could substitute England for India in any of the above.

**looks like India may prevail in a close finish.

Sri Lanka vs Pakistan and Australia vs West Indies

Dhoni to be fair has defended the total fairly well. He has unfortunately made no serious attempt at defending 120 to qualify.

India win by 1 run. Morkel slaps a 6, then for an unknown reason tries to slog a decent attempt at a yorker.

All fairly accademic.

Don't understand Dhoni's tactics, his only option was to go top heavy. Keeping Ashwin back for when it was all over was very silly.

India exit owing to one reaaly bad day at office and flawed tournament format......inspite of winnin as many super 8 games ( 2 out of 3) as the otehr 3 semifinalists....

and 4 out of 5 tournament games.


The distribution of teams into 2 groups was so unbalanced....
and points /NRR from 1st round didn't carry forward......so a 90 run win against the reigning world champions counted for nothing....

many a discussion boards are filled with theories.....that Aus by preferential losing eliminated the team that they feared most facin in the finals
since they knew lightining doesn't strike twice after beating India once......

Anyways I would't pay much attention to this theory...but would rather ICC looks at the tournament format

Zaheer and Irfan had done a decent job in the powerplay, and Yuvraj is more than handy with the ball. Dhoni would have hoped for a wicket or 2 more after AB got out and then may be wanted Ashwin to put pressure on the rest of the lineup. Although he bowled well today, Zaheer hasn't been the same bowler in T-20s as he is in other formats.
India had half lost out on qualification at the toss, 90 % after their first innings.
Anyways I had said on Shelsey's preview thread that I would be very happy if India make it to the semis, I am not surprised they haven't. I really hoped the West Indies would do well and even win it. They have huffed and puffed their way to the semis. Can't rely on a team work to see them home, But Christopher Henry Gayle and Sunil Philip Narine, with a bit of help from the rest can turn a match. Not very hopeful, but I really wish they take it this time.

KP_fan wrote:India exit owing to one reaaly bad day at office and flawed tournament format......inspite of winnin as many super 8 games ( 2 out of 3) as the otehr 3 semifinalists....

and 4 out of 5 tournament games.


The distribution of teams into 2 groups was so unbalanced....
and points /NRR from 1st round didn't carry forward......so a 90 run win against the reigning world champions counted for nothing....

many a discussion boards are filled with theories.....that Aus by preferential losing eliminated the team that they feared most facin in the finals
since they knew lightining doesn't strike twice after beating India once......

Anyways I would't pay much attention to this theory...but would rather ICC looks at the tournament format

KPF, Pakistan lost only 1 match and so has Australia in the entire tournament. Lanka lost only to South Africa in a total farce of a cricket match if ever there could be 1. Agree with your point on NRR and points from the group stage getting carried though.
India's bowling weakness is very well discussed over and again, but yet again its the batting that has let them down. That performance against Australia was pretty poor, and even today they should have scored at least 10-15 more. Even in the Pakistan game where their performance was bordering on the clinical, perhaps they should have gone with a bit more intent after they got well placed?
Gautam Gambhir had 1 decent knock, Virender Sehwag had 1 decent start. Yuvraj didn't convert a few decent starts, Dhoni failed to move the ball of the square at times. Sharma had the 1 decent knock of the year during the tournament and the usual garbage after that.
They played good cricket in most of the matches, but no champion stuff certainly. So fair enough, I would say.

Points from the group stage should be carried through, which could have made a difference.

But India can only blame themselves. Dhoni is terrible at finding excuses for everything - the rain, the cold, injuries and what have you.

The facts are that, Kohli aside, the batsmen flattered to deceive, and the bowling was only as good as people thought it would be (not particularly).

They don't need to re-think things as much as England. Clearer thinking and selection, and better form and they should be right up there.

Only SL and Aus have really played fully to potential in this tournament so far though. WI and Pakistan are quite lucky to make the semis in my view.

Virender Sehwag has been inconsistent across formats for some time now, Gambhir is firing only in ODIs. There is too much dependence on Kohli, and Dhoni too in ODIs. But Dhoni has struggled in T-20s.
Gambhir and Sehwag have made match winning contributions across formats, but their struggles have reached a point where it really have to worry India. I would like to see Rahane, and for that matter Pujara play more ODIs at least, one of them, preferably Rahane should get a good long run in T-20Is, admitedly they play very few of them.
I just hope Sehwag and Gambhir find form before the England series starts. A good start would make life a lot easier for Pujara, Tendulkar and Kohli.

msp83 wrote:Zaheer and Irfan had done a decent job in the powerplay

They had, but this tournament has showed time and time again (Finn the only exception) that when a bowler bowls 3 consecutive overs in the PP their 3rd over is generally (much) more expensive. Same happened again today. Ashwin should have bowled at least 1, and Zaheer and Pathan at most 2. Dhoni failed to learn from what has happened so far in the tournament. It was a poor move.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:question to shanky: now that it seems likely that Voldemort will make a return to the England side, will you be switching allegiances again?

surely the winning margin depends on the first innings score anyway? but if it's roughly 31 runs or 4 overs then that's a huge ask, can't see India managing that unless SA have a bad day.

Not really. But I might stop hating England.

pakistan with their flaky batting but great spin bowling have made it to semis....
now someone will play a dashing 70odd and they will crush Lanka......

I am supporting Pak from here on.........if they win...then I will echo Gavsakar's consolating words said after the 1992 world cup....... " We were the (only) ones to beat the world champions"

http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-world-twenty20-2012/content/current/story/585276.html

Dhoni's reaction. There are a few quotes worthy of concern:
"[let's] assess if it's the fault of the players. It is not."

Whilst Dhoni is correct to point out that the format did them no favours (but when you have 4 teams in a group it is always possible that NRR will play a part), to absolve the players of all fault is not a path to improvement. At the end of the day, you can blame other factors all you like, but it is the players who are out there on the pitch.

"120 was quite a low target to defend. We won this game by one run, so it is difficult to say that if a few strategies had been changed, we could have defeated them big."

This sounds overly defeatist to me. It also confirms to me that Dhoni was more concerned with winning the game than trying to win it big. He should have gone all out attack, and basically comitted to winning by a big margin or losing by one.

Overall it sounds like Dhoni is very quick to blame external factors (the format, the rain against Australia, the toss yesterday). His interview essentially boils down to "we played well but were unlucky", whereas it should have been "we didn't disgrace ourselves, but their are issues we need to sort out".

The simple fact is apart from the mauling of England, India have had their problems throughout the tournament, let's not forget Afghanistan really should have beaten them: the batting has been inconsistent, with the openers a particular concern; the selection has been muddled - no way should Balaji have been playing ahead of a 2nd spinner against South Africa on that surface; the bowling has overall been good, but Zaheer's fitness is a worry; and the ground fielding has been predictably poor.

Of course Dhoni is right not to expand on these issues in a post-match interview: it is neither the time nor the place. However if the general message he was putting accross is one in which he believes, then India has a problem.

Mike Selig wrote:http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-world-twenty20-2012/content/current/story/585276.html

Dhoni's reaction. There are a few quotes worthy of concern:
"[let's] assess if it's the fault of the players. It is not."

Whilst Dhoni is correct to point out that the format did them no favours (but when you have 4 teams in a group it is always possible that NRR will play a part), to absolve the players of all fault is not a path to improvement. At the end of the day, you can blame other factors all you like, but it is the players who are out there on the pitch.

"120 was quite a low target to defend. We won this game by one run, so it is difficult to say that if a few strategies had been changed, we could have defeated them big."

This sounds overly defeatist to me. It also confirms to me that Dhoni was more concerned with winning the game than trying to win it big. He should have gone all out attack, and basically comitted to winning by a big margin or losing by one.

Overall it sounds like Dhoni is very quick to blame external factors (the format, the rain against Australia, the toss yesterday). His interview essentially boils down to "we played well but were unlucky", whereas it should have been "we didn't disgrace ourselves, but their are issues we need to sort out".

The simple fact is apart from the mauling of England, India have had their problems throughout the tournament, let's not forget Afghanistan really should have beaten them: the batting has been inconsistent, with the openers a particular concern; the selection has been muddled - no way should Balaji have been playing ahead of a 2nd spinner against South Africa on that surface; the bowling has overall been good, but Zaheer's fitness is a worry; and the ground fielding has been predictably poor.

Of course Dhoni is right not to expand on these issues in a post-match interview: it is neither the time nor the place. However if the general message he was putting accross is one in which he believes, then India has a problem.

While I can understand where Dhoni is coming from, and agree with the argument that the format and rain played a part in India not making it to the semis, I would assess with Mike's assessment that while they didn't disgrace themselves by any means, at the end of the day Pakistan and Australia played better cricket over all. A defeat in a cricket match is perfectly understandable, but the kind of defeat against Australia that eventually cost them, no way can the players let go of the responsibility, particularly the batting.

The truth is - it was a group with 4 top teams- do the group again and you get a diffrerent outcome. Its random

As BBC's Jonathan Agnew says, a 4 month process of reintegration, unheard in international cricket.

msp83 wrote:As BBC's Jonathan Agnew says, a 4 month process of reintegration, unheard in international cricket.

wrong thread