NZ/Aus combined NPC...the drums beat louder

Even if they are my own drums...

NZ is honour-bound to help out our brethren across the ditch. The depth in Australia is embarrasing and they have been cruelly exposed this season with player after player dropping out for the season, or at least a few games. This has resulted in greenhorns being sent into battle, underprepared on a diet of Sydney/Brisbane club rugby, which would be like England calling up players from National 1 or Championship sides.

Australia have a gaping hole between club rugby and Super Rugby. NZ and SA have always had the gap filled with the NPC/Currie Cup. NZ's comp has fallen on hard times with constant tinkering, weird regulations, provinces over spending and no clarity over the role of the NPC.

Here's some clarity:

Let 2 Australian teams in and reduce NZ numbers to 8. It could look like:

Auckland
Wellington
Canterbury
Waikato
Hawkes Bay
Taranaki
Otago
Southland
Queensland
NSW

To those who support current NPC teams not listed here; sorry, we've got too many teams at the top table. Time to drop down into the Heartland and go amateur. A competition featuring these teams I think would make for a great competition and could be over in 11 wks. It'd attract interest from across the ditch and maybe pull a few punters back through the gates in Godzone. More importantly, Australia can start developing players by getting them used to a higher level of rugby, so they aren't cruelly exposed like a 14 yr old getting down-trou'ed by the school bully.

OK, I may not be thinking things through totally as I am thinking as I type but we've got to sort out the situation in Australia and we've got to sort out our own provincial mess. Two birds with one stone?

I agree. We already do it for football netball and league(although we also have sxv).

If limited to largely non test and non key sxv players it could gain some momentum and support. Three hours to a match is not a lot different between an hour between auckland and christchurch.

We get inconsistent support for itm as by the time its on the big stuff is almost over and going down a level loses a bit of interest in general. Adding oz sides to the mix might bring some added spice to it.

Hahahaha Canterbury 84 v Southland 0 really astute and fair for the 1000's of fans and players North of Auckland. Shove Australia pal if it meand my province goes amateur.

By the way you talk of NZ in the League system but where are all the best NZ players? Where are the Aussie has beens?

Now tell me would this mean that the ranfurly Shield could end up in Brisbane?

It wouldn't have to but isn't it the same as the NRL trophy ending up in Auckland?

I see it as a trophy that every competing team can win, Where as to win the NRL trophy you have to actually win the whole tournament.

Agree! Time to reciprocate.

It will also prepare ITM Cup players in NZ for the Super Rugby travel elements so a good thing there too.

Would the Aussies be allowed to compete for the Ranfurly Shield too?

Another idea. Couldn't Australia host a domestic competition including Australian regions and Pacific Islands? Tonga, Samoa, Cooks, Fiji, Brisbane, NSW, Perth? I proposing the James Cook Cup.

The Ranfurly Shield crossed my mind. Ultimately, the pay off should be that if we're making the NPC standalone with no promotion, then the log o' wood should go into the Heartland Comp. It's only fair in my opinion.

Rainbow Warrior - I take your point re league and hasbeens creeping into the Warriors but you only have to look at our Toyota Cup side over the last few years to see the benefits of our inclusion in an Australian comp.

The ANZAC spirit has it's place in times of war / tradgedy and it is always commendable but let's leave it there aye. If the Aussies are in deep poo in rugby it is up to the ARU to set the hierarchy in place. I say let the Union world thank their luck stars that Union is seen as at least third most supported sport behind league and Aussie footie.

Here is a reason to help the Aussies out with infrastructure and keep the Wallabies Strong:

THE WORLD AS IT IS
==============
1(1) NEW ZEALAND 92.43
2(2) AUSTRALIA 86.62
3(3) SOUTH AFRICA 84.20
4(4) ENGLAND 83.09
5(5) FRANCE 83.03
6(6) WALES 82.26

THE WORLD WITHOUT AUSTRALIA
======================
1(1) NEW ZEALAND 92.43
2(2) SOUTH AFRICA 91.20
3(3) ENGLAND 88.09
4(4) FRANCE 87.01
5(5) WALES 85.22

AWOP don't go too far on the England baiting. People have been banned for that.

It's a very kind 'offer' mintie and I'm sure many Aussies would appreciate your genuine concerns about Oz rugby at present.

However, we wouldn't want to disturb your wonderful ITM Cup competition. It's perfect as it is - we would only spoil it with our big egos.

We simply need to get our own National comp up and running again. I don't care if it's 8 teams only - 10 would be a stretch but someone needs to stick their neck out again (not Clive Palmer or Nathan Tinkler though!) and make with the money! $$$$ $$$$

Perth
Adelaide
Melbourne
Canberra
Sydney (south of Harbour - Randwick, Uni, Easts, Southern... down to Illawarra, West Harbour, Parramatta, Penrith)
Central Coast (north of the harbour - Norths, Manly, Warringah, Gordon, Eastwood, Hornsby, Hills Districts... all the way up to Gosford)
Newcastle
Brisbane
Gold Coast
Townsville

The capacity to re-establish it (yet again) is an issue though since there seems to be new teams springing up everywhere in the AFL and A-League and competition would be tough to try and stake out a long term sustainable market of regular followers.
It's possible to be following 3 or 4 teams across the various codes... so one more won't hurt. I follow about 6 teams as it is.

Crowds were poor in the 2006 experiment. It will have to start with a bigger bang than last time and pitch it correctly to the masses who might be following GWS, Wanderers, Parra, NSW, etc already.

It also clashed with the big other two codes but maybe they could start later in August - finishing it in late October/early Nov (Oct 13 GF in 2006) and try and stagger it a bit more culminating in the final a month or so after the AFL/NRL hysteria dies down. That might help also help us prepare for AIs since we're usually 'off-season' a couple of months before November.

There's definitely no doubt that a country like Australia has some very good players running around somewhere each weekend playing the game at a very high skill level. They will have to find their way through the system somehow and get noticed by the scouts. I just wish there were more exchanges between RL to RU because we seem to have a glut of exceptional young players playing RL who would easily excel in union. Stars abound out there every weekend. Someone needs to dangle the carrot and get them over into Union.

I obviously knew Pretoria would be an uphill task but in the end I was pleased with the effort and commitment shown in the against all odds scenario.

That's a huge plus for the team psyche... in a way. If only they can get their best injury free 22 players; 15 would be nice.

Rosario will be an even tougher test. The Wallabies will rise as best they can but even if they lose it won't be through want of trying to make a final stand for the last game - I'm pretty sure their defence will be better and have a point to prove. It shouldn't be a blow out against us. I'd still probably tip Argentina by 3-8 points at home.

(...tell him he's dreamin'!)

nganboy wrote:AWOP don't go too far on the England baiting. People have been banned for that.

Thanks for the heads up nganboy! It wasn't intended as "baiting", merely pointing out how compressed the top of the table looks and how the lack of diversity may hamper the reputation of the game.

Morning LB, Question.

How many communities are there in australia that is pro rugby union?

The reason why I am asking is, it is a hell of a lot easier to focus on communities that has an affinity for rugby Union, irrespective of the number of areas or the number of teams that can be established.

When you look at SA as an example, Rugby Union may well be played across the country, but there are rally only 6 or 7 real feeding grounds, the rest are of lesser intensity.

I have read a substantial number of articles on an austrlian site where the supporters are forever aiming at 8-10 teams, which in my view is not the correct approach.

The expansion must come from where the strength and desire for rugby union is first, even if it is only 6 teams, get that strong and providing quality entertainment and depth to the Super franchises and ultimately it will grow.

If you consider Wales with their Valley's ideas. The current 4 regions of Wales are where rugby is most popular, even though the northern part of wales frm what I have read is mainly football, they are only now suggessting a fifth region should be considered.

That's a good point Biltong. Perhaps a comp with Sydney, NSW Country, Brisbane, Queensland Country, Canberra and whichever of Perth/Melbourne has the better club comp would be a good start. Then look to add the other of Perth/Melbourne pls Central Coast later?

Yes, I don't know the demographics of their rugby strengths well enough, but like you say, get the development right where rugby exists first, after all that is where the depth is currently coming from and if the strucutres there aren't up to scratch how can you even contemplate to look at areas outside that?

Would you start the competition with a big splash or start small and build it up?

I gather opening up big stadiums for a match costs a packet, for example $60k for Eden Park. Could you start in small stadiums at lower cost, get good atmosphere, build a ground swell, develop new players, increase wallaby team depth and strength, regularly beat AB/SA, grow fan support, then go for the big splash after a few years?

The oz A-league/NBL try to be class comps but they must cost a bomb to run. Teams go bust and quit because they can't afford it. Probably all the high paid import player salaries they pay just to be competitive week to week.

There seems to be a change in focus in Australia already.

Sydney will always host the 1st Bledisloe Cup until 2022, until 2022 when there are two Bledisloe cup games in Australia, the second will be in Brisbane.

That means NZ will only play Australia in NSW and Brisbane. The traditional strong areas.

No disrespect to SA, but the NZ v AUS rivalry has always been the strongest rugby union show case there, RWC aside.

So this is some switch of focus from the rotation policy of the past.

I am interested to see what will happen with SXV franchises and whether the Wallaby core will return there too.

A big splash is too expensive as you say.

If you are only going to get 10 000 people to a club game why rent a big stadium, rather market it strongly within those communities and get them all behind the competition.

Will be less costly and better to get each community to support their own team.

Yes, you could start with 6 definitely. Syd, Bris, ACT, Central Coast-Newcastle, Gold Coast and either Melb/Perth.

Central Coast would be more viable the NSW Country though Kiwi. Most of those country blokes end up in the big smoke or Canberra anyway.
Also Gold Coast - 600,000 population v 170,000 for Townsville who are probably more league than union.

AWOP, you are correct, Australia and New Zealand has a whole new generation of younger people who weren't around when SA and NZ were THE rivalry, the beldisloe from memory came into importance in the late 70's.

Biltong wrote:AWOP, you are correct, Australia and New Zealand has a whole new generation of younger people who weren't around when SA and NZ were THE rivalry, the beldisloe from memory came into importance in the late 70's.

To be clear, I'm talking about Australia only. I think SA firmly remain the benchmark in NZ, except perhaps fleetingly circa 2002 when SA were in real trouble with consistency and NZ could not even pay to spend half an hour alone with the Bledisloe Cup.