Indian Domestic : Season 2012-2013

First topic message reminder :

Irani Trophy is out of the way....Challenger is ongoing.......Duleep Trophy will start soon and then the entire Ranji season with a new 3 group and 2 tier structure.
In between there are A tours........India A in NZ and then Eng-A side comes to play India-A.

It warrants a separate thread

Shelsey93 wrote:I think its extremely harsh to judge a player with a proven FC record on a series of away ODIs, and a Test v SA.

But age is running away from him a bit now, and India now have a number of other players with mega FC records that are much younger.

Just out of interest, what sort of standard do you think the Duleep/ Ranji currently are? Are they comparable to the Championship or should we knock 10 off a batsman's average if we want to compare them to English players?

Badri's age indeed is a problem in him getting picked.
Now on Ranji vs CC.
I would say the overall standard isn't too different. However the conditions are very different. Ranji matches are played mostly on flat tracks, too much importance on first innings lead has resulted in too many roads. The number of quality domestic spinners have come down in recent times and Fast bowlers are not known to make a huge impact.
In England, even 37 year old inconsistent international rejects like Andre Adams are terrors with the ball. The conditions, the format, all favor more result oriented cricket and so there is a greater say for the bowlers.
So I would say we need to take a closer look at Indian domestic batting averages, and English domestic bowling averages.

Shikhar Dhawan is on the verge of anotehr hundred against Central......he has scored heavily....Irani, challanger, Dulleep....he will never be a test match potential because of serious techqniue limitations.

Kambli was a like poor man's Lara...and Dhawan is a poor man's kambli...such are hsi technique defficencies.
Dunno if we can play him in even home ODIs ?

Yuvraj is unbeaten on 65

south is running throuhg East zone......saurabh Tiwari is the only man standing.

Good to see Stuart Binny pick some wktzs again.......if he continues to get runs......he should play in India A games and soon be in reckoning in ODIs.
Stuart is the only seam bowling...batting allrounder in the country...given that Nayar fell back to his injuries in the last season

Stuart Binny isnt anywhere near good enough for international cricket!

CF wrote:Stuart Binny isnt anywhere near good enough for international cricket!

he is a vastly improved cricketer

yes but not good enough for international cricket, he's useful in hit and giggle IPL cricket on indian tracks but not high class international cricket on more challenging wickets.

CF wrote:yes but not good enough for international cricket, he's useful in hit and giggle IPL cricket on indian tracks but not high class international cricket on more challenging wickets.

i have watched him recently.......he is far better than hit n giggle only
his technique is compact as is his inning building ability......and his seam bowling a bonus.

look at his ranji stats for last season......and his good show in Irani.
He is to me a better 50 over and long version starting with ind-a potential.

Yuvraj Singh restarted his first class career by scoring an unbeaten 133 against Central Zone in the Duleep Trophy semi final. Yuvraj's innings came of just 152 balls.
I hope he keeps his consistency up, and bowl well as well so that he could be in line for consideration for that troubled number 6 slot in the test side. Ajinkya Rahane continues to be my first pick, but further consistent runs from Yuvraj and a good show with the ball, he should be right up there.

Well, Yuvi, the road to a Test recall has begun. Keep this up and I won't mind giving him another chance.

CF wrote:yes but not good enough for international cricket, he's useful in hit and giggle IPL cricket on indian tracks but not high class international cricket on more challenging wickets.

Erm, when have you watched him? He hasn't actually done well in the IPL so I don't see how you can call him "useful" in the IPL. He is much better in the longer formats. Was one of the leading batsmen in Ranji last year. Now I am not saying he won't be my first choice for the Test side but he is a lot better than you think. He has the talent. By no means, is he a T20 specialist!

Yuvraj seemed in good touch today....report from CI and Kartik's first hand accounts

Yuvraj's performance overshadowed Dhawan, who hit his sixth successive 50-plus score - including three centuries. The pair scored at a T20 rate, putting on 160 for the third wicket in 122 deliveries against an attack that included the experienced left-arm spinner Murali Kartik and India medium-pacer Praveen Kumar.

Yuvraj, who played only 152 deliveries for his unbeaten knock, smashed 20 fours and two sixes, both over deep mid-wicket and off Kartik. The second six brought up his century.


Kartik was happy for Yuvraj after the match. He tweeted: "Fabulous knock by [Yuvraj] so happy to see him in such imperious form..:hope all the detractors are happy now."

Here is Binny's record for the 2011-12 Ranji in the strong Elite Divison.....batting is solid....and bowling more than useful....at 3 wkts per game at an amazing SR of a wicket every 38 balls and at 20 apiece

STR Binny 8 11 0 742 189 67.45 889 83.46 3 3 1 98 14

STR Binny 8 13 129.4 29 402 20 5/49 10/100 20.10 3.10 38.9 2 1 2 0

Binny is no spring chicken....running inot his 10th Ranji season...he wasn't a prodigy and has learnt in the job
anotehr guy who is worth his salt and values his wicket is Abhishek Nayar....hard working and technically correct...one who IMO will do well if given a break in India-A games in FC format

Would be great if Mukund can score some runs for South Zone tomorrow to carry on from his hundred for India A in NZ. Far more of a Test prospect than Dhawan IMO.

Yuvraj cracks a double hundred for NZ.....Praveen and Kartik take 4-fers......menwhile Saurabh tiwari smacks a 145 and gets back into reckoning....and Binny finishes with 3 wkts.

Yuvraj's double is the obvious talking point on the 2nd day of the Duleep trophy semis. A fabulous performance from Yuvraj, I hope finds the mental strength and determination to finally cut it at test cricket.
Praveen Kumar picked up 4 wickets in a welcome return to form, and Parwinder Awana picked up 2 wickets for North in another welcome sign.
Impressive performances from Saurab Tiwary, Abhimanyu Mithun, Murali Karthik( he may be on the wrong side of 30, but I would have him over the likes of Piyush Chawla), and Stuart Binny.
Disappointing from Mukund, Menaria and Pandey.

Binny misses a chance to shine with the bat and stake a claim...as the South vs. east game is in a positive surprise doinated by bowlers on the Vizag pitch.....both teams get around 250ish....with East holding a slender lead of 20dd .......which will decide the game in their favor...should 2nd innings not be completed.

North's superior pace and spin bowling agains breaks the game in theri favor on the back of Awaana and ait Mishra...having Central down to about 120 for 5 and then a recovery partnership by their WK for the 8th wkt....nevrthless North appears firmly in control.
Makes Yuvraj's contributions stand out.

a few more solid knocks in the next round of Duleep and opening Ranji games.....and I can bet ya......he would have sealed his spot for the first test vs. Eng starting mid Nov in Amdavad

Pace Bowler Bhuvan Kumar on 91* holding the lower order of C.Z and inching them towards the 450 total of North .

Bhuvan bowls at decent pace of 135kph....has been moderately successful in India-a tours and generallly bats at No. 7 or 8 in IPl and FC.....
If he gets a hundred here...his perofrmance will stand out as another primarily a bowler who can be a useful bat like Pathan.

Binny continues to impres with the balll and has 2 out of 4 fallen wkts in 2nd inning for South

Bhuvneshwar Kumar scored an unbeaten 120 to take Central Zone 10 runs away from the North first innings. He has added an unbroken 100 for the last wicket with Rajasthan and India A medium pacer Rituraj Singh.
AS KPF said, Bhuvneshwar is a useful medium pacer who can bat in the late middle order. He doesn't have the pace of an Ishant or an Umesh. His effort ball goes up to the early 130s. But he's not yet 22 and his batting is improving all the time. This is his first hundred in FC cricket to add to his 9 50s.
Ishant Sharma went wicketless for the 2nd successive day and he has so far bowled 23 overs. Parwinder Awana also failed to add to his 2 wickets from yesterday. Former India leggy and no ball specialist Amit Mishra managed 4 wickets and 15 no balls!. Disappointed to see Yuvraj Singh being given only 4 overs so far.
A collective bowling performance saw East Zone establishing a small lead in the first innings against South, but south bowlers hit back and going into the 4th day east leads by 152 with 4 wickets remaining. Karnataka all-rounder Stuart Binny picked up 2 wickets for south.

Mohammed Kaif, Mahesh Rawat, R Vinay Kumar and Natraj Bahera all were among the runs.

Leg spinner Rahul Sharma has failed to make any impact in the match so far.

Interestingly, the South Zone team is constituted of 8 Karnataka and 3 Tamil Nadu players. No representation from Kerala(is Sreesanth out injured?), noone from Andhra or Hyderabad(Venugopala Rao? Shahabuddin?), no Reagan Pinto from Goa.......

from 100ish for 5.......and 300ish for 8......if C.Z go on to take a lead here ....it will be a Heist.

Bhuvanesh Kumar is more than medium pacer...he is lively and hits 135ish often.
UP seems to be producing a long line of quality seamers recently..........RP Singh, Praveen Kumar, Sudeep Tyagi ( unfortunate with injuries else he would have played for India), Shalabh srivastava......ICL cut short his potential...and now Bhuvanesh Kumar.

Central zone took the first innings lead against north and are almost through to the final. Bhvneshwar Kumar and Rituraj Singh extended their last wicket partnership to 127 before Kumar was out for 128 to Rishi Dhawan. In reply, north are 91-1 at lunch. Shikhar Dhawan was out for 37.
In the other semi, the bowlers have setup an interesting last couple of sessions. South will have to chase 238 to win the match and go through to the final, as even a draw would take east through as they had a small first innings lead.
Orisa all-rounder Biplab Samantray scored a 50 for east, while Vinay Kumar and Stuart Binny picked up 3 wickets each for south.

C.Z do deliver a day light robbery and take the 1st innings...lead......the Inning from Bhuvnesh Kumar against a high quality pacea dn spin attack....will be a First class level classic and should establish his credentials as a bowling allrounder.
Must have been pathetic captaincy from N.Z......who was captaining for them ? Shikhar Dhawan ? Devoid Yuvraj the chnace of a establishing himself by playing in the finals.
R Dhawan again took 3 wickets......keeping himsefl visible as a seam bowling allrounder on the distant screen.

Meanwhile S.Z have 215 to chase in the 4th inning......Binny took 6 for the match and I hope he can score some runs with the bat.


this round of Duleep trophy will be remembered for Yuvraj's double hundred.......and 3 bowling allrounders making their mark.....

Dhawan is really knocking on the door at the moment, making consistent big runs!

The problems with the likes of Shikhar dhawan and Abhinav Mukund...is that based on their domestic excellence they got their international breaks...and were clearly proven short of international class due to severe technical flaws.

It is much harder for such branded "technically flawed" batsmen to get a recall to international stage.

Wouldn't say their international careers are absolutely over...but very hard to make a come back

Mukund is awful IMO..

he was awful when he played against windies and england, IMO Dhawan is much better..

S.Z is 48-8.....Dinda Breathing fire.......has 7 wicket...bowling fast and furious like the Duleep trophy and Ranji knock out phases of last year

the teams seemingly behind in both semi finals are the ones going throuhg it seems

BCCI has discounted the performances in the Challanger.......given the flatness of the pitchs and pulling publicly Saurashtra cricket association for making such lifeless pitches.

Good...so the system is looking more closely at the FC games

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Cricket/CricketNews/BCCI-to-seek-SCA-explanation-over-flat-tracks/Article1-945186.aspx

KP_fan wrote:BCCI has discounted the performances in the Challanger.......given the flatness of the pitchs and pulling publicly Saurashtra cricket association for making such lifeless pitches.

Good...so the system is looking more closely at the FC games

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Cricket/CricketNews/BCCI-to-seek-SCA-explanation-over-flat-tracks/Article1-945186.aspx

Excellent decision from the BCCI. I absolutely hate when stupid commentators call a flat road a good wicket.

Now on the Duleep trophy semis 4th day.
The performance of the day came from India seamer Ashok Dinda who very nearly won the match for his side with a terrific 7 wicket performance that at one point reduced South to 42-8. They eventually saved face by reaching 85-8 in 36 overs.
Then showing the lack of winning culture in Indian domestic cricket, the 2 captains agreed for a draw with 15 overs still remaining. Pathetic I must say. The English county system of far more points for win and additional batting and bowling bonus points within a stipulated number of first innings overs is a far better system.
The Duleep trophy matches should be 5 day matches in my view.
In the other semi, Central Zone advanced to the final, with yet another first innings lead performance, but this time it took some doing, as the last wicket partnership of 127 got them there in the end.

why on earth would the fielding captain choose to agree for a draw with 15 overs left and they only needed 2 wickets?!

#crazy

CF wrote:why on earth would the fielding captain choose to agree for a draw with 15 overs left and they only needed 2 wickets?!

#crazy

I think its that, as they had a 1st innings lead anyway, they had effectively advanced to the final regardless of whether the win was complete.

Most captains would rather get a proper win, as that is good for morale and just general good practice though...

CF wrote:Mukund is awful IMO..

he was awful when he played against windies and england, IMO Dhawan is much better..

Is this the same Mukund who averaged 50 on the A tour to England in 2010? Ok, he failed against Anderson and Broad in his first few Tests on seamimg pitches. So what? So did F**kwag. Is he an awful player too?
And those Tests in the WI were played on wickets, that according to none other than Rahul Dravid, among the toughest he's faced in his career. Terming a guy as "awful" on the basis of 5 Tests in tough conditions is rather pre emptive.

Mukund has a fair few way to go, but he's only 22, and has scored tons of runs at the domestic level. He did manage a 40 odd against England and has also a test 50 against his name.
He certainly has certain technical issues, but technique is what works for you. I would certainly keep him in the larger picture as far as the national side is concerned.

Absolutely. Not saying he should be picked now. I'd bring in Rahane for Fatwag and Yuvi/Nohit for Raina. Gambhir and Dhoni get one more series. Sachin will probably quit anyway if he doesn't perform against England.

Shanky Dhoni was pretty good with both gloves and bat during the NZ series. I don't think there is a wicket keeper batsman who can really challenge him at this stage.

msp83 wrote:Shanky Dhoni was pretty good with both gloves and bat during the NZ series. I don't think there is a wicket keeper batsman who can really challenge him at this stage.

I am fine with Dhoni playing this winter. The problem is when we go to SA. Dhoni on seaming pitches? No thanks. I'd rather have someone who actually has a batting technique.

ShankyCricket wrote:

msp83 wrote:Shanky Dhoni was pretty good with both gloves and bat during the NZ series. I don't think there is a wicket keeper batsman who can really challenge him at this stage.

I am fine with Dhoni playing this winter. The problem is when we go to SA. Dhoni on seaming pitches? No thanks. I'd rather have someone who actually has a batting technique.

And who could that be? Patel and Karthik aren't as good as Dhoni with bat or gloves. Saha is yet unproven and isn't consistent enough for his Ranji side. Ojha doesn't look special. The likes of Rayudu and Uthappa are batsmen who could keep at times, by no means test keeping quality.
Dhoni has scored runs in England, in fact he was the 3rd best Indian batsman during last year's England tour after Dravid and an underperforming Sachin. He has scored a 90 odd in South Africa as well.

I am not a Dhoni fan......in fact one of his biggest critics even when he was in better times.
But I have to concede......he is the cleanest WK in the country.......not spectacular like Kiran More....but safe and steady.
and one of the best ODI batsmen to have played the game.


what he is bad at.....overseas test match batting......and his highly deterioated T20 batting ( where he takes too much tome to get set)

the ideal time to release him will be at the start of the SA series...because there are a number of overseas tests therefater.

Wriddhiman Saha at this point is the first in line to take over test match keeping....and the U-19 winning team WK as the standby.

for T20...it would be Rayadu or by a long shot Uthappa.

If there is an enterprising captain like Ganguly.......he could consider turning Rayadu into a test match WK also.
Rayadu has the potential to be a poor man's AB D'Villiers

AB de Villiers himself is not terrific with the gloves. A poor man's AB would mean greater trouble.
Rayudu doesn't keep for his domestic side other than the rare days with his IPL side, and he's not in that stage of his career to take up the responsibility at international level.
Saha's batting or even glove work in the limited international opportunities hasn't suggested anything massive either.
As I said on Mukund, technique is what works for you It need not come right out of the text book. Dhoni has scored ODI runs across the world, he has played a few decent test innings even on seam friendly conditions. I don't think it is all that surprising to see Dhoni struggle when the likes of Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Gambhir, Sehwag all struggle or totaly fail. Dhoni is a number 7 who could set up innings. when he has to come in at 120-5, it is unfair to expect him to change the world.

Yuv's Tweets

yuvraj singh ✔ @YUVSTRONG12
Have to giv to bhuvnesh kumar what a knock he played underpressure last wicket put on more than 100 runs Wil remember this game for a while

Turning Rayadu into a test match WK would be a rdical move like ganguly made sehwag an opener in tests and Dravid a WK in ODis.

Someone will have to talk to Rayadu and ask him" son you want to play test cricket for India ?
This is your easy and long lasting entry ticket"
And it doesn't matter if he hasn't kept at FC level...what matters is if he is willing to and captain is convinced he can.

This is not a record based move but one on potential.
And I didn't mean poor man's ABDV in wktkeeping skills...but in the mercurial approach to batting.
It is a radical move and would require a radiical captain...to get a WK who can from no7 spot deliver 40ish avg even overseas.

Re: Saha
What do you think of him msp? He looked good and technically upright in his 2 test match outings agaiSnt SA and Aus.
He is very very clean as a WK
And has a good FC record with bat and as a WK?

KP_fan wrote:Turning Rayadu into a test match WK would be a rdical move like ganguly made sehwag an opener in tests and Dravid a WK in ODis.

Someone will have to talk to Rayadu and ask him" son you want to play test cricket for India ?
This is your easy and long lasting entry ticket"
And it doesn't matter if he hasn't kept at FC level...what matters is if he is willing to and captain is convinced he can.

This is not a record based move but one on potential.
And I didn't mean poor man's ABDV in wktkeeping skills...but in the mercurial approach to batting.
It is a radical move and would require a radiical captain...to get a WK who can from no7 spot deliver 40ish avg even overseas.

Re: Saha
What do you think of him msp? He looked good and technically upright in his 2 test match outings agaiSnt SA and Aus.
He is very very clean as a WK
And has a good FC record with bat and as a WK?

KPF, I think we have to put the Dravid/Sehwag situation vs the Rayudu situation into context.
Rahul Dravid already had an impressive ODI record by the time he took over wicket keeping responsibilities in 2002. Yuvraj and Kaif were establishing themselves, and at that point if a specialist wicket keeper had to be brought in then a specialist batsman had to missout. In that particularly situation it was best that Dravid would take up the responsibility. Ganguly was good enough to see that and brilliant enough to convince Dravid about this.
When Ganguly's other radical move of promoting Sehwag to open happened, the big 4 had established themselves in the middle order. Sehwag was actually scoring test runs all be it in the middle order. The opening position was a serious worry and nobody was putting up a consistent strong for themselves. So Ganguly promoted a performing middle order who otherwise wasn't established enough to challenge any of the middle order strong men to open and it worked wonders.
So it was partly terrific thinking captaincy, partly the product of circumstances.
Rayudu is not an proven name in international cricket. He has shown major inconsistencies in his FC career so far. His FC record is nothing special. Unlike keeping in limited over matches, keeping in test matches, against decent spinners on a good Indian track is a massive challenge. Dhoni is among the best keepers keeping to spin. No other wicket keeper batsman has done as much as he has done with the bat this consistently for the last 25 years. Dhoni's record as wicket keeper batsman is in fact among the best throughout the history of Indian test cricket.
Now on Saha, well he has a pretty good FC batting record for a wicket keeper. His keeping looks alright although I wouldn't call it brilliant, I would rather have Dhoni keeping to the likes of Ashwin and Ojha. But in his 2 tests, admitedly a very small number to make any worthwhile assessment, Saha looked to me as a bit unsure against quality pace. Seemed a bit limited in his range of shots.
I don't have a problem with him being the first reserve, but not yet good enough to oust Dhoni.
And in ODIs, there is no regular wicket keeper batsman in the world who could even get anywhere close to Mahendra Singh Dhoni. He would walk into any ODI side in the world including SA.

msp83 wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:

msp83 wrote:Shanky Dhoni was pretty good with both gloves and bat during the NZ series. I don't think there is a wicket keeper batsman who can really challenge him at this stage.

I am fine with Dhoni playing this winter. The problem is when we go to SA. Dhoni on seaming pitches? No thanks. I'd rather have someone who actually has a batting technique.

And who could that be? Patel and Karthik aren't as good as Dhoni with bat or gloves. Saha is yet unproven and isn't consistent enough for his Ranji side. Ojha doesn't look special. The likes of Rayudu and Uthappa are batsmen who could keep at times, by no means test keeping quality.
Dhoni has scored runs in England, in fact he was the 3rd best Indian batsman during last year's England tour after Dravid and an underperforming Sachin. He has scored a 90 odd in South Africa as well.

Mind you, Karthik was the highest run scorer for us in the 2007 Test series in England as an opener.

Karthik has been very inconsistent and hence lost his place in the side. He did play a couple of good knocks during that tour, but was he the highest scorer for India in that series?
And don't forget it was Dhoni's 76 and a bit of help from the weather that saved India in the first test and eventually led to their series win. Dhoni also scored a 92 in that series.

^msp there have been good innings from dhoni overseas....notably 1 in Eng and 1 in SA...in what appears in distant past.

our exepctations from him should be based more on the 8 tests and 14 innings he had played in eng and Aus recently....and boy was he pathetic...a lame duck....shooting practie for seamer to get him caugth at slips

In that 2007 series Karthik indeed scored more runs than any other Indian. But Dhoni wasn't too far behind, and he averaged 9 runs more than Karthik did and played a critical match saving innings. Only Anil Kumble, who scored his first and only ton during that series averaged more than Dhoni did.
Dinesh Karthik averages 27 in 23 tests and 52 ODIs, despite many of those matches a a specialist batsman without the pressures of keeping.
Now KPF, I agree Dhoni wasn't India's best bet during the tours of England and Australia over the last year and half or so. But again, one shouldn't forget he was the only Indian batsman besides Dravid and Tendulkar who scored over 200 runs in the England series and averaged over 31. Considering his career average is mostly around the late 30s, this wasn't a massive letdown from the captain by any means. VVS Laxman averaged 22, Suresh Raina averaged 13, Gautam Gambhir averaged 17, Sehwag and Mukund combined for just about a hundred runs in the series. So you could see where the problems lie. Dhoni didn't have a single platform to build on in the entirety of the 2 series. He scored a few runs at 7 to reduce the mass of the humiliation, and I think I would give him credit for that rather than expecting him to save India each and every time from positions of 100-5.
His recent home series performance against New Zealand was pretty good as I mentioned, and he was India's next best after Kohli and Pujara.

^one man's failure doesn't justify anotehr failure

reports are emerging SLPL and BPL are unable to pay their bills.
which will strengthen IPL's position as the real deal...the only deal.

Big Bash thouhg I believe will pull their weight as the only other commercially successful franchise styled T20 league...... as the smaller cousin of IPL.

SLPL and BPL just don't have the population and money respectively to sustain themselves