Indian Domestic : Season 2012-2013

First topic message reminder :

Irani Trophy is out of the way....Challenger is ongoing.......Duleep Trophy will start soon and then the entire Ranji season with a new 3 group and 2 tier structure.
In between there are A tours........India A in NZ and then Eng-A side comes to play India-A.

It warrants a separate thread

Guys, I'm moving this up into the sticky section where it belongs.

Great thread KP_F. Always interesting to hear you, msp and shanky talk about cricket.

Good luck in the Test Series too.

Thanks LB.

At the end of the 2nd day of the Duleep trophy match, North are well placed against West. North made 484, Amit Mishra out for 48. Kamlesh Makvana took a fifer.
West then started badly, India batsman and potential test opener in the near future Ajinkya Rahane out first ball in Ishant Sharma's first over. At the end of the day they are 4-1 with Kaustabh Pawar and nightwatchman Murtuja Vahora to resume tomorrow.
With Rahane out early, there is added responsibility on captain Cheteshwar Pujara.

i sense......haven't seen just a feeling based on one challanger.....where Ishant ripped thru top order that surgery, rest and rehabilitation has done him good. if he has regained his reverse he can be a handful.
North has a much higher quality pace attack than west

Ishant and Awana, with support from Rishi Dhawan certainly is a better outfit than the one that west has got. Abhishek Nayar and Falla are no match for them. But an attack of Zaheer Khan, Umesh Yadav and Dawal Kulkarni would have been a different propposition altogether.

Linebreaker wrote:Guys, I'm moving this up into the sticky section where it belongs.

Great thread KP_F. Always interesting to hear you, msp and shanky talk about cricket.

Good luck in the Test Series too.

I PM'ED fists about this..i said to him about renaming the county section, as 'domestic cricket', and it could go in there, i think he said about doing it in the next few days.

West struggling against North, 72-4 at lunch. Bhushan Chauhan and Parthiv Patel out in the middle. Pujara went for 11. Ishant Sharma with 3 wickets for north.

msp83 wrote:West struggling against North, 72-4 at lunch. Bhushan Chauhan and Parthiv Patel out in the middle. Pujara went for 11. Ishant Sharma with 3 wickets for north.

so ishant runs through the top order again.
this will count....as the pitch is flat and his wickets include Rahane and Pujara

West 148-7 at tea. Ishant so far has 4-23 in 13 overs. HP's young all-rounder Rishi Dhawan has taken 2 wickets. Former India wicket keeper Parthiv Patel scored 51 for west.

yes msp...Rishi dhawan does look promising........as a Ranji level allrounder.

seam bowling allrounders are rare on the Ranji circuit....and this guy is one to be kept an eye on

amit Mishra runs throuhg the lower order and WZ are bowled out for a 164...that's embarrasing for a side containing Nayar, Rahane, parthiv and Pujara

I hope Dhawan would maintain his consistency with bat and ball, and take the quality of his performance beyond the Ranji level. How dearly would Dhoni love to have a decent seam bowling all-rounder in all formats?

At the end of the 3rd day North in their 2nd innings are 30 without loss after bowling west out for 164.
Poor captaincy from Shikhar Dhawan, not asking the west to follow on. The format too has to be blamed, a first innings lead is enough to get them through so no need to go for the win.
Amit Mishra picked 3 wickets, but not much of top order wickets. More importantly he managed to bowl 12 no balls in 17 overs!!.

msp83 wrote:I hope Dhawan would maintain his consistency with bat and ball, and take the quality of his performance beyond the Ranji level. How dearly would Dhoni love to have a decent seam bowling all-rounder in all formats?

Dhoni is not the type who encourages new players easily.
The few youngsters he backs are the tried and tested from IPL.....he is too conservative to bring someone directly from Ranji or FC or A cricket directly into internationals.......and certainly not only on selectors recommendations.

He was even so reluctant to get Pathan back........and still reluctant to use Pathan as an allrounder.

dhawan's best bet is to deliver a solid ranji season and break into the A side.

it's unfortunate to see N.Z not enforcing a follow on.
all duleep trophy games used to be 5 days......now it seems only the final is. There's gotta be some incentives for an outright win given.
entives

http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/SPO-OTF-t20-loss-dhoni-to-be-fired-kohli-raina-may-replace-indias-captain-cool-3895898.html

BCCI leaks are reporting that Dhoni is set to lose his captaincy...in limited over formats.
Given his defensive, self preservative brand of captaincy......and agenda based selections.......the writing was on the wall if he didn't earn a place in the semis......in nation that puts so much premium on world cups.

I was also struiggling to see how they could afford to replace him right before the important England "payback" test series.....and they are not.
They will keep him for tests and considering Raina and Kohli for T20 and ODIs......althouhg I believe one captain for all limited over formats is enough.

It's ironic that Dhoni might lose captaincy in his favourite formats.

Good to see no one is considering senior Sehwag anymore......

So who would be the best candidate if they do take the Test captaincy from Dhoni after the England series, KPF?

Kohli? He seems to be top quality captain material but I suppose BCCI would want him to continue his rapid ascent up the 'batting rankings' before they burden him with such a huge responsibility. The guy just seems so driven and talented and it wouldn't surprise me if he became the next big Indian superstar (if he's not halfway there already). Is he popular amongst the other players?

I don't think this would actually happen. No reputed daily has reported it, and if Virat Kohli is made the ODI captain, then he should be the T-20I captain as well. And in the medium term, he should be the one taking over from Dhoni in all formats, but not as yet.
Howsoever dreadful that last year and a half has been, Dhoni has enough credit left with him so that he could stay on for some more time. Good home results would make things easier. But any slip up there, that should be the end of it all.

They wont take Dhoni away from the test captaincy and to be honest i think he would lose the limited overs captaincy first, to allow Kohli to bed into captiancy in the shorter forms.

The ODI results haven't taken so much of a beating in recent times unlike the test situation. Even in the World T-20, India's performance was much better than what it was in the previous 2 tournaments.
Before they think of changing the captin, they have to think aabout the openers. People like Chetan Chauhan can talk a lot of rubbish, Virender Sehwag has lost his consistency in all formats, and Dhoni was absolutely right to sit him out in the match against Australia. Sehwag and Gambhir should clearly be told that they have to find form soon, or else will have to go back to domestic cricket to get the touch back.

In t20 sehwag is a shoe-in IMO...however

In all forms Rahane must surely come into the side now, how much longer can they ignore him?!

Kohli will surely be the next indian captain?!

Would it be Kohli next? Not sure. I'd let him get on with being the best player.

In fairness India play so much cricket that losing a format as captain might not be such a bad thing. If India see Gambhir as a shoe-in for selection (I don't, but they do) then I'd probably go with him ahead of Kohli - hope it helps improve his form too.

Shelsey93 wrote:Would it be Kohli next? Not sure. I'd let him get on with being the best player.

In fairness India play so much cricket that losing a format as captain might not be such a bad thing. If India see Gambhir as a shoe-in for selection (I don't, but they do) then I'd probably go with him ahead of Kohli - hope it helps improve his form too.

The way Gambhir's consistency has gone away in tests and T-20Is for the last couple of years, I don't think he should or would be made captain. When the change has to be made, I think it has to be someone from the next generation. Among the lot its only Kohli who's a regular in all formats. He has some captaincy experience at age level cricket, and is a thinking and hard working cricketer who has made mistakes in the past, understood he did so, and worked out ways so that he wouldn't repeat those. He has lots of confidence about him.
I am a bit worried about how would captaincy affect his batting though. At this stage India certainly can't afford Kohli's batting a hit due to the pressures of captaincy. So I would have MS continuing with the job for some more time, then there could be an assessment, perhaps after the Australia series?

The Duleep trophy match between north and west ended in a farce. North captain Shikhar Dhawan decided to bat on into the 4th day even though his side had a first innings lead of 320 and a 30 run additional advantage overnight. Dhawan went on to score a 50 on top of his first innings hundred. North eventually declared at 208-7, with Saurashtra's Kamlesh Makvana picking his 2nd 5fer in the match. West finished the day at 69-2, Ishant Sharma, or for that matter any of the pace bowlers, didn't bowl a single over.

Gambhir also got stripped of the vice captaincy 2 years ago..

CF wrote:Gambhir also got stripped of the vice captaincy 2 years ago..

I don't think he was 'stripped' of it - he was never vice-skip, only captaining when both Dhoni and Sehwag weren't playing on a few occasions.

But Kohli was named as a vice-skip ahead of Gambhir on a few occasions last year.

As I say though, I'd have serious reservations about making Kohli captain right now. He has a long career ahead of him and might be a fine captain in years to come. But right now he is fast becoming one of the leading batsmen in the world across all formats, and that must be his focus.

Gambhir indeed was the deputy for some time, but it was taken off him during the Asia Cup. Kohli was appointed in his position. Then for the World T-20I, Gambhir was reappointed by the fickle selection committee.

msp83 wrote:The Duleep trophy match between north and west ended in a farce. North captain Shikhar Dhawan decided to bat on into the 4th day even though his side had a first innings lead of 320 and a 30 run additional advantage overnight. Dhawan went on to score a 50 on top of his first innings hundred. North eventually declared at 208-7, with Saurashtra's Kamlesh Makvana picking his 2nd 5fer in the match. West finished the day at 69-2, Ishant Sharma, or for that matter any of the pace bowlers, didn't bowl a single over.

since these are effectively K.O games....it becomes a battle of one inings.

I seriously think the 4 or 5 day FC games in knock out stage should be 2 innings of 100 overs and 125 overs respectively.

Else it will alsways come down to battle of first innings...and no incentive to make the whole match count

--there is a number of channels reporting the 3 captain leak from BCCI sources.....in addition to the one quoted......there is IBN, India Today, Deccan Chronicle...and about half a dozen others also

--it is also being repoted that BCCI asked selectors to have a "chat" with Tendulkar...and the word leaked in the media.....and Tendulkar was being hounded by media men..standing outside his house....wanting a word on retirement.
That is what forced him to issue a statment recently.
and the word by selectors probbaly forced him to uncharecteristically to announce playing two Ranji games for practise.

--Dhoni will not be asked to step down after the England series...unless he committs a crime that few Indian captains have done...losing a home series ...
It's unlikely that he will lose and will therefore continue for remainder of home season also.

--the rationale is to let Kohli "ease" into the job throuhg less pressure bi-lateral ODIs...and then make the clean cut into test match captaincy at the start of the foreign tours against SA or maybe just after it.

--But make no mistakes........Dhoni is gonna be living on borrowed time....to allow transitioning / grooming of the next captain where Kohli is considered to be the first in line...but still a year opr two away from being fully ready.

--and in unlikely event of Dhoni sc.rewing up the home tests also.....we might see Gambhir in the transition-captain role.

And if Dhoni is "rested" from T20s......I believe Rayadu will be the WK batsman in his place

-

Ishant looks in good rhythm. Hope this is not just a false dawn though.

Yuvraj Singh is set to play the Duleep trophy semi final for North Zone from the 14th. Virat Kohli has been granted permition to skip the match. Punjab's Mandeep Singh also might get a game.

This will be Yuvraj's first real long format game. That number 6 slot in the test side is not taken by anyone as yet, and a good performance here, and a consistent run in the couple of Ranji round matches before the selection for the England series first test, Yuvraj might have a chance to resume his stop-start test career. While Yuvraj has obvious limitations as a test player, I'd have him over Raina for sure. His fitness level for a test match has to be tested though, and I hope he stays well on the park in all these upcoming matches and makes a strong case for selection as an all-rounder.

Ajit Agarkar is appointed Mumbai Ranji captain.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-trophy-2012/content/current/story/586378.html

there was infight in Mumbai last season......with Agarkar walking out in a huff....protesting against the high handedness of Jaffer the captain.

and now aggu is back.........as a captain.
he is still a handful for Ranji level batsmen....
He is to me Indian cricket's biggest under achiever.........a hundred at Lords a 6-fer at Adelaide to beat Aus in Aus at their prime that no team achieved.....
ability to hit 145kph with the ball and tonk 5 sixes in an over........and get a 24 ball 50.......all of that just leaves you thinking of what could have been with Agarkar

msp83 wrote:This will be Yuvraj's first real long format game. That number 6 slot in the test side is not taken by anyone as yet, and a good performance here, and a consistent run in the couple of Ranji round matches before the selection for the England series first test, Yuvraj might have a chance to resume his stop-start test career. While Yuvraj has obvious limitations as a test player, I'd have him over Raina for sure. His fitness level for a test match has to be tested though, and I hope he stays well on the park in all these upcoming matches and makes a strong case for selection as an all-rounder.

t

Yuvraj is defnitely better than Raina...but I suspect he is far from 5 day match-fitness

That first test is more than a month away and Yuvraj has time to prove his fitness and form before that. If Yuvraj doesn't make a strong case for himself with both form and fitness, I would have Ajinkya Rahane in at 6. he's certainly a top order batsman, but I think I would have him eased into test cricket at 6. Tendulkar and Dravid had also started batting lower down the order, Ricky Ponting was batting number 6 for most of his early test career. From Tendulkar's recent statements, it seems he may not be carrying on for very long, and soon Rahane will have the chance to move up the order.

Yuvi is better than Raina but thats surely not enough saying much? Think he's had his chances at Test level. Not writing him off just yet but I'd prefer to see the likes of Badri or Nohit get a run out in the test team first.

I'd have India playing with 10 men rather than playing Rohit Sharma!. The guy has tallent, but doesn't have the attitude or temprament for test cricket.
Badri had his limited opportunities and although he didn't do great wasn't altogether bad. But those limited test chances as well as a few ODIs away from the comforts of the home pitches suggesttd to me he has had some technical issues playing good fast bowling. I'd have him over Raina in the pecking order, but considering the all-round package that Yuvraj offers, I am tempted to give one absolute last chance for Yuvraj in test matches.

Badri has played only 2 Tests. Yuvi has obvious issues against the short ball and the turning ball.

Badri didn't look all that comfortable against Dale Steyn in that South Africa series. But then not many have done that. But his performances during last year's West Indies series was really disappointing, a decent showing there, he would have got the 3 tests to prove himself but he batted like Rohit Sharma in Lanka there.

I think its extremely harsh to judge a player with a proven FC record on a series of away ODIs, and a Test v SA.

But age is running away from him a bit now, and India now have a number of other players with mega FC records that are much younger.

Just out of interest, what sort of standard do you think the Duleep/ Ranji currently are? Are they comparable to the Championship or should we knock 10 off a batsman's average if we want to compare them to English players?

Badrinath might not be a better choice than Yuvraj.............for tests....eitehr.

Badrinath lacks nothing in terms of technique or strokes or application.....but only big match temperment.
Just like Kohli rises to the occasion.......as does Manoj Tiwari.......made to sit out for months and then delivers the odd game he gets to play in.........
Badrinath is the reverse...he freezes and shrinks on the ocaasions......he is anyway a stiff bodied player whose arms and feet movement froze further purely because of the ocassion.
and he was written off after a run of 4 odd ODI games in WI.

Some might say Dhoni and selectors have treated Badri unfairly....probably true.....but he hasn't caused them headaches when his chance did come trhough like Manoj Tiwari has.


Yuvraj was unlucky...had Ganguly lasted as a captain.......he woudl have trurned Yuvraj into Sehwag's opening partner.....and both Yuv and India's test match destiny would have changed.
But beyond Ganguly came Chappell for whom Yuv was too indisciplined ( as were sehwag, bhajji, zaheer and all of Ganguly's boys)........and then came Dravid ( minus chappell) and Kumble who lacked the creativity to handle Yuv's talent in tests....and then the ultra conservative Dhoni.......and then came IPL spalsh glamour, parties and general feeling of test match not so important in Dhoni's dressing room......and Yuv lost his way....and then came the world cup and cancer......and a big blow to Yuv's return to test matches.

Inpsite of his wekanesses to spin....and swinging / seaming ball.....because of his stroke play and temperament he had the potential to deliver like Sehwag.
I don't think he has issues agains the short ball as much as it might have appeared in England...when he was already battling fitness due to cancer.

I hope he can have a solid Ranji season and retrun.....to tests....I doubt that will happen thouhg

Personally I'd pick Rohit. Too talented not to make the cut IMO. His ODI failures aren't all that surprising if you see his domestic List A record.

ShankyCricket wrote:Personally I'd pick Rohit. Too talented not to make the cut IMO. His ODI failures aren't all that surprising if you see his domestic List A record.

well let's look at the candidates for the No.6 spot

1) Raina.....dhoni's choice
2) Rohit......was the first in line in Aus for a test match slot....and then fell aside because of bad ODIs
3) Rahane...my pefernce......long term test match batsman...who can open also.
4) Tiwari......excellent performers in FC, A tours, ODIs T20s whenever given a chance.....
5) Yuvraj.....outside chance......
6) Badri...was in the squad of 15 for home tests against NZ..so he is in selectors scheme of things


actually I would take anyone of the otehr 5 over Raina...and I am sure many would agree

Rahane would open for me ahead of Sehwag. Think Tiwary has short ball problems. Rohit for me.

ShankyCricket wrote:Rahane would open for me ahead of Sehwag. Think Tiwary has short ball problems. Rohit for me.

yeah I would take Rohit ahead of Raina...and if we persist with him...he will deliver a 40+ average career....he is not capable of 45+ becuase I think focus / consistency will be issues with him
Why do you think Tiwari has a short pitch problem

KP_fan wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:Rahane would open for me ahead of Sehwag. Think Tiwary has short ball problems. Rohit for me.

yeah I would take Rohit ahead of Raina...and if we persist with him...he will deliver a 40+ average career....he is not capable of 45+ becuase I think focus / consistency will be issues with him
Why do you think Tiwari has a short pitch problem

Harsh judging him on one innings but didn't look all that comfortable against it in that one ODI he played against SL in August against a bunch of medium pacers.

If he gets his head right, Nohit could be an exceptional player. Worth a gamble IMO.

Of course, I won't have him anywhere anywhere anywhere near the ODI squad at the moment given his ODI/List A record but needs to be tried out in Tests first before thinking of completely discarding him. As I said, far better player in FC cricket domestically. Maybe we're playing him in the wrong format?

Rahane has to play test cricket sooner rather than later, the guy's class!

However Raina IMO should never play test cricket again!

Rohit is not someone who can pla a match saving innings on a dificult track, as that is very demanding in terms of the mental approach. His big knocks in Ranji has come in no real pressure situations, and he just went after the bowling.
I would take Rahane, Yuvraj, Manish Pandey and Badri over Rohit Sharma. Raina? not good enough for test cricket, good limited overs player though he is.