Percentages - The best way to avoid quality!!

From Warren to Berlin.......Promoters seem to think (like politicians) that the public is stupid........Whilst we know Bowe wasn't scared of Lewis we know his promoter (Newman - The biggest A-hole in history) was more inclined to cash in first!!

and why not..he's not alone there....Holyfield was a bigger fight!!

Purse-Percentage is and will always be the way for a boxer to save face.....

Offer 75-25..know he'll turn it down and say well I offered him the fight!!

Like politicians and debates in by-gone days.."I'll debate you but these are my terms etc etc!!" (A special debate on your achilles heal!!)

We've seen it with Manny-May.....Bowe-Lewis.... and we'll basically see it with most "glamorous" champions!!! (ie the ones that sell regardless of opponent) as it's martial law in boxing at the moment!!..The sanctioning boys will lady of loose morals out to anybody for a fee!!

For new guys on here, this thread is just to let you know that the percentage game is and will always be the respectable way of avoiding decent opposition these days....So don't believe everything a promoter tells you..or you read!!

In black and white times they were most honest about it..they just avoided the guy end of.... and screw percentages!!

Honesty always the best of the virtues!!

it even more relevant in todays game i feel, how many young hungry fighters would give up the chance at a shot at the main man in the weight division?? its exactly what brook did turning down bradley. we may all agree that he may not be fully ready but i dont see it being a total mis match and either way i dont see how brook comes out of it badly. (the only way would be a severe knockout but with bradley i cant see that happening)

and why did he turn it down? it wasnt in the promoters game plan?? theres me thinking its the promoters job to deliver his fighter the best fights! what they really mean is they want to take the easy way to a world title then milk it for all its worth. this isnt a direct attack on match room or kell more the thing we see all the time with every promoter these days. its frustrating as i think kell could give bradley problems and come out of the fight much better off finacally and as a fighter.

I dont think Bowe was scared of Lewis and I actually think he would have beaten Lewis circa 1992/3, maybe even comfortably. But Lewis was mandatory challenger and its not like the Holyfield rematch was going to go up in smoke if Bowe took care of Lewis. He went on to have two more fights before rematching Holyfield so you have to think was it not possible he could have just fought Lewis and then had the Holyfield rematch.

True.....Holy was obviously viewed better value - for-money!!

Newman was a completely a-hole....let's not forget..

Imo Bowe was afraid to fight Lewis look what happened in the amateurs Bowe knew Lewis would destroy him that is why Lewis called him Chicken Bowe!

Your opinion means.............

Waingro wrote:Imo Bowe was afraid to fight Lewis look what happened in the amateurs Bowe knew Lewis would destroy him that is why Lewis called him Chicken Bowe!

'Imo' you shouldnt use the word 'destroy' until you are about to reproduce

If it was two fighters with no history then I would say Bowe beats Lewis but considering their history i'm not so sure it's all that straight forward, the mentality of Bowe and his promoter indicate they regarded the fight as very risky.

It winds me up greatly that Americans, (with a hilariously pathetic inability to ever find fault in one of their compatriots) can possibly excuse the behaviour of Riddick Bowe prior to the proposed mandatory fight with Lennox Lewis!!!

I remember it at the time and Bowe was clearly shaken with the fact that Lewis had demolished Razor Ruddock easily so looked for a way out. Lewis was massively risky to Bowe and his future earnigns given that he got starched by Lewis in the Amateurs.

If Bowe truly was a victim of his "percentages" obsessed promoter why did he need to perform the now infamous act of throwing the belt in the bin? Please explain why he did that? Why didn't he just shut up and let his promoter do the ducking?

Everyone apart from one-eyed Americans view that as an act of cowardice and I completely fail to see how anyone can possibly excuse Bowe for what he did with the WBC belt and the bin.

What a silly post.....grow up...

Super D Boon wrote:It winds me up greatly that Americans, (with a hilariously pathetic inability to ever find fault in one of their compatriots) can possibly excuse the behaviour of Riddick Bowe prior to the proposed mandatory fight with Lennox Lewis!!!

I remember it at the time and Bowe was clearly shaken with the fact that Lewis had demolished Razor Ruddock easily so looked for a way out. Lewis was massively risky to Bowe and his future earnigns given that he got starched by Lewis in the Amateurs.

If Bowe truly was a victim of his "percentages" obsessed promoter why did he need to perform the now infamous act of throwing the belt in the bin? Please explain why he did that? Why didn't he just shut up and let his promoter do the ducking?

Everyone apart from one-eyed Americans view that as an act of cowardice and I completely fail to see how anyone can possibly excuse Bowe for what he did with the WBC belt and the bin.

You are right mate Bowe threw his belt in a bin which was shameful he knew that Lewis would destroy him look what happened in the amateurs! No excuses for Bowe he ducked Lewis shamefully!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What a silly post.....grow up...

Actually I thought this post was the best in the thread.

You may aswell have just posted

I have nothing....else...to....say!!!!!! Here is some misplaced........punctuation!!!!

Fact of the matter - Bowe ducked Lewis, boxers always have different reasons for not wanting to fight others, I remember when George Foreman was commentating the Viali/Lewis fight, he said if Vitali won, he'd come out of retirement and take him on, then when questioned if he'd have a crack at Lewis he instantly without thought said "Not a chance, nooo way" or something to that effect.

Basically, the other pros saw Lewis for what he was - an excellent concussive puncher who had the tools to hurt anyone. There isn't a heavyweight in history that doesn't have a hard night with him. I have him in 4th position in terms of ATG Heavies, Only Ali, Louis and Holmes rank higher, and I still say he'd make each of them work damn hard for a win. You forget Trusswum, Bowe made his fights look hard at times, I can't recall Lewis being in a war with anyone, making it look like he was slugging it, using all his ability to get by. He beat Holyfield twice (despite the scorecards) he soundly beat everyone he faced (yes I'm aware of his losses to McCall and Rahman) - such is the nature of the beast with heavyweight boxing, you get caught napping and you get put to sleep. In the rematches he made statements to the effect of showing the world that these people didn't deserve the plaudits they were given.

You'll no doubt come back with garbage like he was being "outboxed" by Frank Bruno. Lewis was a notoriously slow starter when he had a 12 round gameplan. You make out like Bruno was annihilating him, he wasn't. The result spoke for itself.

Irritates me when wums like you start noticing that general opinion is waning when it comes to Lewis. Gordy may have had some very weird skewed views on Lewis, claiming he was the GOAT or something, makes other people say "whoa, hey" and there isn't enough people with a sound and objective mind who will not allow that to change their opinion at all.

So I'm here to basically say Lewis was awesome. Bowe didn't duck him? Holyfield was a different kettle of fish. Fighting well against Holyfield didn't mean he wouldn't have crapped it against Lewis. Most heavyweights did.

Shameless wum.

From my recollection, Bowe was offerred the Holy fight and the Lewis fight. He chose Holy because it was more money. The WBC decided to strip him of the belt as a result. Hardly ducking but simple economics as Holy was the bigger draw in USA.

Pity the fight didn't happen as Bowe would have taken Lewis to the cleaners quite easily.

Lewis had a life and death struggle with the other 1984 Gold medalist whose name escapes me. Supposed to be a stepping stone but won a split decision.

And no way is Lewis 4th.

Oh dear Az.

Make a case for anyone else. In terms of ability, achievements, longevity etc there's nobody else really who you can have above. He lost twice. Avenged them both. Nobody else really pushed him to his limits during his career, besides perhaps Vitali who's face resembled a car accident.

I don't know if I can be bothered with you when it comes to debating heavyweights Az, because you don't rate Rocky Marciano and every single time he's mentioned you claim Price is "chinny" because he was floored in the amateurs.

You know your stuff, but heavyweights seems to be beyond you.

In terms of achievement and longevity I'd put him behind Wlad. Obviously ahead on ability and overall ahead of Wlad. But as you know its not as simple as that. He was another boxer who was at the right place at the right time. Fought and beat faded greats. I'd have Tyson ahead of him. Obviously Frazier also and Foreman. Yes they did not have the longevity of Lewis, but they were unfortunate in having Ali in their era. Ditto Liston who I would have ahead of Lewis also.

He struggled badly against Mercer who a 40 year old Holmes handled easily. Sorry but Lewis was not my cup of tea as a boxer. Very poor footwork and an innefective jab for someone his size. Plus he was seriously boring as a boxer. Had Holy near on out in R5 but backed off.

azania wrote:In terms of achievement and longevity I'd put him behind Wlad. Obviously ahead on ability and overall ahead of Wlad. But as you know its not as simple as that. He was another boxer who was at the right place at the right time. Fought and beat faded greats. I'd have Tyson ahead of him. Obviously Frazier also and Foreman. Yes they did not have the longevity of Lewis, but they were unfortunate in having Ali in their era. Ditto Liston who I would have ahead of Lewis also.

He struggled badly against Mercer who a 40 year old Holmes handled easily. Sorry but Lewis was not my cup of tea as a boxer. Very poor footwork and an innefective jab for someone his size. Plus he was seriously boring as a boxer. Had Holy near on out in R5 but backed off.

Weird post.

azania wrote:Very poor footwork and an innefective jab for someone his size.

Are we talking about Lewis?

azania wrote:struggled badly against Mercer

Card was closer than reality.

azania wrote:In terms of achievement and longevity I'd put him behind Wlad

In an era where Wladimir has reigned despite there being very little in terms of competition? Who won't fight his brother (the only other real challenge there is for him)

azania wrote:I'd have Tyson ahead of him

Don't see how, ability? lewis takes him every day, even during his fabled "prime" - Prime vs prime, Lewis takes it, he's very close to Holmes in terms of ability. Longevity? Lewis. Achievement? Lewis.

azania wrote:unfortunate in having Ali in their era.

actually I'd say they were lucky having the guy who pushed them to the dizzying heights they reached. If they were around now, they'd be thought of like Wlad. Don't get me wrong, I like Wlad in terms of his ability. I never detract from the fact he's supremely talented, but he's never been able to show it, besides his fight with Haye, and that wasn't really a masterclass as it was a stuttering fight.

Not wanting to spam the board, but there is a Lewis thread ongoing already. But I'd say that a leak Tyson was all wrong for a peak Lewis. Too much movement, speed and power. Early KO.

IS he going to urine on the floor and make lewis fall over?

azania wrote:From my recollection, Bowe was offerred the Holy fight and the Lewis fight. He chose Holy because it was more money. The WBC decided to strip him of the belt as a result. Hardly ducking but simple economics as Holy was the bigger draw in USA.

Pity the fight didn't happen as Bowe would have taken Lewis to the cleaners quite easily.

Lewis had a life and death struggle with the other 1984 Gold medalist whose name escapes me. Supposed to be a stepping stone but won a split decision.

And no way is Lewis 4th.

Yet as my memory serves he didn't fight Holyfield next - yep just checked it he fought Michael Dokes and Jesse Ferguson without the WBC belt which he chucked. Why did he not take care of Lewis before Holyfield 2? Your memory isn't what it used to be Az old boy!

To chuck the belt is a public display of ducking! Tyson also ducked Lewis but let King do the ducking for him. Because of this no-one remembers that Tyson side stepped Lewis for Seldon in the same way. I don't blame Bowe so much for the ducking, more the horrendous PR gaffe that is associated with it.

I think this is a pretty generous review of Lewis here. Bowe would have started as favourite over him in 1992. Lewis at that point was not the finishd article and would go on to struggle with Bruno, Mercer and get knocked out by McCall and ultimately switch trainers. Bowe was in the middle of his admittadly short peak.

I think Bowe should have faced Lewis as his mandatory and there was no real excuse for not doing so. He could have defended his titles and then had a rematch with Holyfield. But it probably saved Lewis from a loss and in many ways worked out well for Lewis in the end. There is is a tendancy to make out Lewis was the dominant heavyweight of the nineties and constantly at his best when he didnt become undisputed until almost 2000 and in the early and mid nineties was still developing. And also, Lewis himself was guilty of giving up titles and not facing mandatories using pretty much the same excuse the Bowe used.

Jabmachine...I refuse to argue with someone who has to make up stories about sparring with Kell Brook...

go away please!! You sad deluded little boy..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Jabmachine...I refuse to argue with someone who has to make up stories about sparring with Kell Brook...

go away please!! You sad deluded little boy..

I'll translate this for you guys.

"I've lost yet another argument as I have nothing more to add. The fact that I'm unable to look past something that happened a long time ago and in no way personally affected me has resulted in a complete and utter loss of objectivity"

You're nothing more than a WUM mate. I'm surprised you still come around here. You should have stuck to the golf boards.

I fought Tyson last night......lost by decision in my backgarden....

No hometown decision..I'm afraid!

"Going to America to train with Amir Khan next week. unfortunately I have to pay my own expenses"..

That was when I knew you were Walter Mitty...

Fairplay though... most other members would have had too much pride to come back after that humiliation!!

But you guts it out!!

well done!

I don't see what relevance that has to the topic at hand you sad little wum. Why don't...you.....post...correctly? And maybe


Change....the record????

I didn't start anything.....You did!!

Mate I might well be a wum but I'm certainly not in your league!!

Have you sent in your gym details yet??

Now sling your sad little hook.

"Froch doesn't go to the body much"

I think you'll find that you started by calling Super D names and failing to have any objectivity - unless you're the most arrogant moron alive, you'd think that a well mannered response would be apt, but no - it was your arrogance once more that came through. The second I claim that you're wumming (which you are, you've been caught out before on the golf boards) you start with the "Kell Brook" stuff. Thing is, I've not claimed anything for ages.

You're having fun I imagine, thinking to yourself "yeah I'll bully some more people"

Newsflash, you're just like a hemorrhoid - the regulars are used to you, but I'll still maintain these boards are awesome after you "quit" for the 100th time.

Give us a kiss!!

Mate you started it........I refer you back to your first post...

But what the heck I don't give a strawberry flan....you're welcome at the oyster anyway!!!

That makes no sense. Once, just once when someone is engaging you - be a clever little keyboard warrior and argue properly. It'll mean that maybe people will respect you instead of thinking you're a bit of a wang.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Thing is, I've not claimed anything for ages.

Sorry Jab, but that did make me laugh.

Maybe its time I did? Lol kidding