NZ there for the taking...

Bare with me, I know this sounds crazy at present but I have a theory.

NZ have blown away all before them in the rugby championship, they've finally won their world cup (of worth) they are sat on top of the world rankings and noone looks like coming close...

So what do they have to fear? Ireland got nowhere near them in the summer, the NH teams are all squabbling amongst themselves for 4/5/6th spot and Aus and SA are injuury hit/confused about where they are going.

Therefore I am going to put my money where my mouth is and say...

WALES WILL BEAT THEM 24th NOVEMBER 2012!!

I'm sure it will be playing on their minds Bluesman that despite everything they've achieved that they haven't yet beaten Wales.





(in a while)

Not everything in rugby is black and white, there is Grey patches, and Wales stand a small Ghost of a chance don't you think?

NZ are beatable. Yes. There for the taking implies they are weak and ravaged with injuries. Let's see what Wales does to Australia before we pass comment on what they can do to NZ.

What has Wales playing Aus got to do with them playing NZ?

The Aus game won't put points on the board for the NZ game!

There for the taking implies ripe for beating, nothing to do with injuries, or form. It can be over confidence, arrogance, and lack of motivation, negligent, and you couldn't really be too harsh on the kiwi team for feeling any of the above with their results last few years!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:NZ are beatable. Yes. There for the taking implies they are weak and ravaged with injuries. Let's see what Wales does to Australia before we pass comment on what they can do to NZ.

Mmmm Argentina & Samoa come before that & they could go either way aswell.

My point bluesman is that Australia are there for the taking. They are struggling with injuries and that's what you call there for the taking, much like SA did to them.

However, the timing of this thread when NZ have just beaten SA at home at altitude does not suggest they are there for the taking. Of course the Wales NZ match will be a good one and of course Wales can win the match. But saying NZ are ripe for beating due to over confidence or arrogance after today's display seems to be stretching it somewhat.

"There for the taking", which you have in you headline, is not quite the same as beatable, bluesman. Any side is beatable, but there is a fairly good reason that NH sides have such a miserable record against the All Blacks.

It has not been a noticeable part of NZ rugby culture to show much in the way of arrogance, complacency, negligence or unmotivated behaviour over the years, I fear. Wales deserve plenty of respect, but history, logic and any sane assessment of the two sides points to the same result that we have seen for nearly 60 years when they next meet.

Put it this way, I wouldn't have a cracker on your men. In my turn, I'll call it now: THE SAME OLD RESULT ON NOVEMBER 24th (AND THE OTHER WEEKENDS ON WHICH NZ ARE INVOLVED THIS AUTUMN).

How much money are you putting on that game blue?
Anyway in one of those games Ireland got fairly close.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:My point bluesman is that Australia are there for the taking. They are struggling with injuries and that's what you call there for the taking, much like SA did to them.

However, the timing of this thread when NZ have just beaten SA at home at altitude does not suggest they are there for the taking. Of course the Wales NZ match will be a good one and of course Wales can win the match. But saying NZ are ripe for beating due to over confidence or arrogance after today's display seems to be stretching it somewhat.

I think bluesman is saying it with a good sense of humour Kia. From my new understanding of Welsh culture from spending time with them and learning the language I have learned that this is the Welsh way of saying "congratulations".

Ireland nearly beat them in the summer.

Look, I think we all agree:

On their day, Wales will beat New Zealand.

AWOP

Please don't tell me your learning welsh now??!!

This is not meant as an insult to NZ, nor as a congratulations, it is simply that they are in great form, are coming north soon on the back end of great seasons and they are there for the taking...

I'll buy a pint to anyone willing to bet, and turn up on the day!

Like I said, they're beatable.

Then again Ireland didn't beat them in the summer and suffered a 60 point blackout in the following game.

SA in Dunedin looked to be along with Ireland the most likely to beat NZ this year. That type of performance in the forwards and applying pressure by scoring points regularly is what's required.

There for the taking is not even crossing the minds of Argentina tonight. The Aussies have a knack of turning the impossible into the possible. My issue is with the title. Even NZ can be taken would be an improvement.

And have done on other occasions. They even drew in the 1970s. Until a side actually beats another, however, and we're here talking in terms of a hoodoo that stretches back decades, rather than the odd game, it's meaningless.

Until the All Blacks actually lose to any of Ireland, Scotland, Wales and, to a slightly lesser extent, England, there's no point suggesting that they are likely to do so. It's possible, yes, as is anything in a two-horse race. It's definitely not the way to bet, though.

Interesting,it implies the All Blacks management take teams lightly untrue.They have not yet been beaten post RWC.BUT in recent years they have lost 2 games out of 15,I was expecting they would lose today and the 3rd Bledisloe match.Well it did`nt happen today and may do so in OZ taking nothing for granted.In the autumn there will be some new faces whether starting or off the bench I don`t know.You[Wales]are confident so is Scotland the AllBlacks are now 16-0. Australia on Sept 30 may be a loss depending on the injury status of them.Then the AI`s,you think Wales can take them,good on you,I think the AB`s will beat you.They want to complete this year unbeaten a feat few RWC sides have achieved in there first defending year.

I am not betting that Wales are likely to win...

I'm betting that they WILL win!!!

On their day it's a done deal.

On the day I mentioned, no WUMing, no blustering, no garbage.

Anyone want to take the bet say so and turn up, simple as!!!

Gee bit rough Blue. It would cost me $1000 at least to get up there and collect my free beer. Could you mail me a cheque instead.

nganboy wrote:Gee bit rough Blue. It would cost me $1000 at least to get up there and collect my free beer. Could you mail me a cheque instead.

Problem is Welsh beer looks like it's going to be good, and has a lot of attitude coming out of the pipes, it certainly has it fans, and on it's day is the match of any beer, but I always find it goes flat about half way though, loses it's head and ends up very bitter.

I don't think the AB's look as impressive as previous seasons. It may not happen but I think a NH team has more chance of turning them over than years gone by.

When are these previous seasons you speak of Sgt Pooly? NH teams who failed to score a win in 3 June tests apart from Scotland. I'm not saying either ABs will definitely win but have no idea where you get that confidence from much like the OP.

Only one posters comments AWOP...no need to taint the Welsh supporters with the same brush... Bluesmans welcome to his opinion but the manner of the win and the timing of his post does reflect a touch of envy, and Ive just mopped up some of it on another post...

But for the record...in order of course...Wales grandslam...Wales get beaten 3-0 by Oz...Oz get dumped by SA at home...AB's thrash SA.

Wales beat NZ? Yes... I can see his logic now...

Nothing really to back it up Kia, it's just something I get every time I've seen them since Hansen took over.

You'll probably sweep all yet again but I just haven't been overly impressed.

And I thought AB fans were hard to please!

It's true they haven't been convincing as the RC leaderboard suggests but Hansen had 3 tough games against Ireland and 6 tough competitors, albeit 2 of which were ravaged by injuries.

But the last two legs were probably the most difficult and those games have seen NZ at their most impressive. I don't think Scotland, Italy, England and Wales will be rubbing there hands with anticipation thinking we can take these guys based on what we've seen.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't think the AB's look as impressive as previous seasons. It may not happen but I think a NH team has more chance of turning them over than years gone by.

Perhaps, but its also the sort of thing thats said when the matches have yet to be played. If you havnt been impressed by this AB side then thats interesting. Defensively theyre probably at the best theyve been for a while, they are building a very solid foundation of a sound gameplan and depth of replacement, have the ability to absorb then repel the most aggressive of starts by the opposition and can attack, and finish moves with a very high level of efficiency that should be a concern to others. Theyre not perfect by any means, but at its core this side has a balance to it that isnt present in any other side at the moment.

You might beat them in some areas, but overall? A tough ask. Probably as tough as it can get.

Previous AB teams have had a glaring weakness.

Sometimes an underpowered scrum, sometimes a vulnerable lineout, sometimes lack of a world class 9, or a 10 who can kick accurately and also take on the line, sometimes lacking pace, or creativity in the midfield, sometimes they've been a "one man team" with too much emphasis on one kind of game plan.

This side seems to be the equal to any set piece, can strike from anywhere, are solid in defence, can repel a driving maul effectively, can carry in close, can spin in wide in style and can slot the long range kicks, or take the drop goal when it's on and appropriate. Most of all they have strong leadership, don't go to pieces under pressure, and can think on their feet, adapt the game plan and play what is front of them, and know how to close out a game once they have their nose in front in a close one. John Smit hit the nail on the head today when he praised the ability to convert half a chance into points with ruthless accuracy.

Had not to be impressed I would have thought?

But for the record...in order of course...Wales grandslam...Wales get beaten 3-0 by Oz...Oz get dumped by SA at home...AB's thrash SA.

Cos the real world works like that taylorman.

You can all slate the statement, the wording, and the timing all you want, I have in no way insulted the AB's, they are clearly the best on the planet, they have beaten everyone there is to beat, RC, WC, summer tour, and will come up north clear favourites to win every game.

I'm just saying that I firmly beleive that Wales are going to beat them, well if I'm being honest I think they will be beat by a NH team, but thats no fun so I'll stick with Wales!!!

There is no envy here, I respect everything there is to about kiwi rugby, but I am welsh and very proud of it. There is no malice meant, even though AWOP and co try to bait me into something I'm not interested in.

So if anyone is around for the game at the MS there is a free pint to all willing to call me on it

PS I also got ridiculed for claiming Italy were going to beat France and Edinburgh would beat Tolouse!!

What's great about Wales is the improvement in their fitness. You'll see them much more likely last the full 80.

But, NZ will score at least two tries I'm pretty sure. Add a couple of penalties and you have about 20 points. Also add that the NZ defence is nothing short of superb, and I'd say that I'm not sure Wales will get the 20+ points required. If they fall behind and play catchup then scores of 2005 and 2006 could happen. Hope for Wales' sake that they don't though-but I'd rather us give them a hiding than lose to them obviously!

I think thats a pretty good point though disney, falling behind NZ is lethal, and Wales will definately need to start well, put some points on the board and most importantly know when to kill ball.

I don't think NZ automatically have 20 points in them, but it is going to take one hell of an effort by the current welsh team...

I CAN'T WAIT!

I just have to salute the Welsh optimism. You guys never know when you are beaten !

thebluesmancometh wrote:

I don't think NZ automatically have 20 points in them, but it is going to take one hell of an effort by the current welsh team...

I CAN'T WAIT!

Well this time I have to agree with you. I dont believe they automatically have 20 points in them either.

I think they have 30.

Plus I think if anyones likely to beat us it will be England.
1 They took SA to a draw recently
2 They usually beat NZ every 10 years. The England match is less than a month out from that anniversary

As good piece of logic as any I reckon...

Yeah I'm worried about that Taylorman! I've been thinking oh no it's about that time where England have their decadely win over us. The year usually ends in 03-the only exception was the best ever English team beating our second stringers in 02

I'm reasonably confident about our chances against England. I think playing Argentina gets us more exposure to what the Poms will throw at us.

Relatively speaking the easy games are the first two (this doesn't include Aussie which is the biggest). So the Italy game would be the record.

I dunno how I feel about the NZ team. I'm really excited by how they're playing but I feel like there's so much potential that's untapped-and that's kind of unfulfilling. Kinda weird as we're showing the stats of a team that IS the complete article.

Who gives a crap anyway? the WRU don't stupid fixture list this autumn again to earn more money.
NZ will come slap aside all in front of them, Wales will be left in awe, with our out of date style of play.
A predictable autumn from Wales, god forbid the pundits are right and Dan Bighead is selected!! you can kiss good bye to the Argentina and Samoa game if we have him and Phillips.
Gatland has coached this crop into fit strong men and i do believe with a tough mental edge! well at least more than modern history has shown,
But he has coached every single ounce of natural flare and skill out of this team, Shane Williams was the last of true Welsh wizards, because any more who come along will be viewed as a square peg that don't fit in the round hole, if they cant hammer them through and make it fit they will be disregard.

Six nations 2013 i will be going to watch Wales v England and i pledge if Wales beat NZ this autumn we will arrange to meet up for a pint pre match and you can slap me as hard as you want across the face!
50 of you could turn up and make a Que and all have one slap across my face.
That's how certain we will not even come close to beating NZ.

Tend to agree about Gatland. He was largely staunch forward play at Waikato where control was king.

Disney I think what we have downpat is the gameplan and the confidence and more importantly fitness that if we keep going back to it by weathering any initial storm, applying some calm and patience then we'll be fine.

Lately sides are all in our face at the start, hoping to get on the board first. Once the initial adrenaline rush is gone and the AB gameplan- high pace, attention to accuracy- stretching the defences start to kick in, opposition sides start making mistakes when they have to start sucking the air in.

SA were noticeably stuffed in that second spell, the altitude affecting them more than us, something I alluded to during the week. The altitude thing is a myth for this side. Its about fitness when the air is thinner, and it showed.

I'm sorry but it's going to be another grand slam tour for the Kiwi's. Regardless of any trophy they win, they will never get tired of winning and never forget the fear of failure and thus wont be complacent.

I think ENG are due a win over NZ actually. They get one on average every 10 years and I think they are now overdue. I think it's 11 years since they won one.

I'm not a New Zealander and i wouldnt be a fan of the all blacks either but i think everyone playing them will have wait another year and retain false hope.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Look, I think we all agree:

On their day, Wales will beat New Zealand.

NO i dont.

majesticimperialman wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:Look, I think we all agree:

On their day, Wales will beat New Zealand.

NO i dont.

Me neither

If Wales beat NZ it will be their day. So by definition on their day they will beat NZ

Someones gonna do it and frankly sometimes a side needs a loss to get them back to reality, back to the feeling of what its like to come off disappointed. Too long away from that feeling is the very thing that will attract them to it. Its just who is it going to ?e..on their day.

New Zealand are there for the taking...

Can anyone explain where "there" is?

And if on their day Wales can beat the All Blacks, then they havent had a day in the last 22,000.

They can believe Auckland

I know they can, but believing in the tooth fairy and other fantasy stories wont win them any rugby matches, well at least against New Zealand it wont.

Ok Grumps, BTW as an England fan I believe we can tear you lot apart.. But then ask me the same question minutes before the game- it will probally be different

To be perfectly honest with you, I see more threat coming out from England than Wales.
England will have learnt from their trip to the republic, whereas I cant see Wales being able to build on anything from the trip to the penal colony.

NZ deserve alot of respcet put it that way- I am gonna be brutally honest here- If any of us get within 7 we will be secretly happy