Blues look to bolster scrum

First topic message reminder :

CARDIFF Blues have moved to bolster their misfiring scrum by signing two Romanian props.

International Andrei Ursache, 28, and uncapped 21-year-old Petru Tamba have arrived at the Arms Park on a month's trial, money having been made available to director of rugby Phil Davies.

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Blues-look-bolster-scrum/story-17055174-detail/story.html

Also I've noticed Simon Gardiner who lasted around 3 weeks (ish?) at Rotherham Titans has signed for Cardiff RFC. It has been well documented on here about his poor attitude and professionalism. However he is a great scrummager, hopefully Phil Davies can get this guy back on track.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The Dragons don't seem to be giving Gerwyn Price the chance, why not him ?

Dowlais, you were told yesterday on another thread that Gerwyn Price has been given the chance by the Dragons. I'll give you the quotation if it means you'll stop banging on about it:

'I really wanted him to be given a shot after last season, but you can't say he hasn't been. He was invited to train with the Dragons. Plus Crosskeys aren't exactly helping his chances by playing him at 7.'

If Cross Keys are playing him at 7, then they must have hell of a player keeping out of the front row, why hasn't he been given a chance ?

smh WUM

Because we've ignored him, Dowlais. We don't even bother looking beyond Newport for players because we only pay lip service to our regional commitments.

There you go, that's what you want to hear, isn't it?

Also, keen to highlight that Cross Keys are in the dragon's region and we don't poach players from anyone else anymore

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
The Dragons don't seem to be giving Gerwyn Price the chance, why not him ? I have hered the Blues have signed Gardiner from Rotherham Titans, why not him ?

Price is a hooker.

Gardiner is struggling in the Rags.

Well give Gardiner a trial, just like the Romanians, like I have been told, what is there to lose, it is only a trial, also the Blues are screaming out for decent front rows, give Gerwyn Price a trial, again what could they lose.

He is on a trial. That's why he is playing for seconds.

Price isn't needed. They don't need hookers.

gcBlues wrote:Also, keen to highlight that Cross Keys are in the dragon's region and we don't poach players from anyone else anymore

Whichever club they play for is irrelevant. It's one of Welsh rugby's greatest myths.

See Marc Breeze.

One thing's for sure.

The Blues haven't developed a decent tighthead since their inception, just like the Ospreys haven't developed a decent outside centre, or the Scarlets a lock.

Maybe we should be a draft system? In order to maximise our playing pool and make sure there's an even spread of youngsters and experienced pro's

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Because we've ignored him, Dowlais. We don't even bother looking beyond Newport for players because we only pay lip service to our regional commitments.

There you go, that's what you want to hear, isn't it?

At last, I don't think you realise how long I have waited for you to admit this, I am so happy, all I can do is

Small print.
I am being sarcastic.

Seems it's not just Romanians...

I have a link with Lynn Howells who is coaching Romania and we've had a link with the Romanian Rugby Union.

'We have a two of their props, Andrei Ursache and Petru Tamba, over for experience as much as anything.

'If they fit the bill and come up to the mark, which, potentially, I'm sure they will, it gives us options.

"Were looking to do a similar thing with a couple of players from New Zealand in November as well, to make sure that we are looking at improving the group all the time.

"When players come over in the future we will have done a fair amount of research on them.

"It's a good process that the Blues have adopted in the past and we are looking to try and develop that but adding value to it as well."

http://www.cardiffblues.com/news/6029.php

I do lke the fact that they're only giving trials to players to see how they cope before signing them, anyone remember Bryn Griffiths & Tom Brown?

gowales wrote:One thing's for sure.

The Blues haven't developed a decent tighthead since their inception, just like the Ospreys haven't developed a decent outside centre, or the Scarlets a lock.

Maybe we should be a draft system? In order to maximise our playing pool and make sure there's an even spread of youngsters and experienced pro's

Lets be realistic here. Since regionalism the following have beed developed my their region (to international standards, going by where they were playing when they earnt their international chance)

Blues -: B Davies (lock), S Warburton (flanker), Navidi (flanker), L Williams (scrum half), H Robinson (wing), T James (wing), J Roberts (centre), L Halfpenny (wing/fullback)

Dragons -: L Burns (hooker), L Charteris (lock), D Lydiate (flanker), T Faletau (No.8), A Brew (wing), W Harris (wing/fullback)

Ospreys -: R Bevington (LH), R Hibbard (hooker), P James (LH/TH - was he pre-regional?), AW Jones (lock), I Evans (lock), J Tipuric (flanker), R Webb (scrum half), D Biggar (fly half), J Hook (fly half/centre), A Bishop (centre), A Beck (centre)

Scarlets -: R Jones (LH), K Owens (hooker), L Reed (lock), A Shingler (lock/flanker), J Turnbull (flanker), R McCusker (flanker), B Morgan (No. 8, just wrong nation), M Roberts (scrum half), T Knoyle (scrum half), R Priestland (fly half), J Davies (centre), S Williams (centre), G North (wing), M Stoddart (wing/fullback), L Williams (wing/fullback), L Byrne (fullback)


I know i have probably missed out on a heap of players from a few of the regions, no offense meant to anyone. What I am trying to get across is that there are certain positions that we are not producing players in at all, and a number of positions where we are all churing out players. I am not too sure that their is any need for a draft system. Especially when you take players like Dan Evans and Tom Prydie as examples. They were not getting their chances where they were, so moved and have shown how good they are, and IMO are pushing for international call ups.

Good props are like gold dust, especially in Wales. Scouts look outside for players and coaches all the time. Don't see the problem unless it harms the international team. Seeing as the Blues aren't doing much for the national team than they already have done then this isn't a problem at the moment. The 'trial' is a smart move, but I also agree that a few more prem players should be giving trials. I can only assume that a few Keys forwards are being overlooked because Dragons are trying to reap the rewards from investing time and resources into players like Coundley, Buck, etc...

I think Blues should be more concerned about Phil Davies. Why did he get the top job with his track record?

Wonder if these players from new zealand will be "time serving" players if they earn a contract with the Blues?(like patterson) Seems to be very similar to what the scarlets are doing with their overseas recruiting policy. Targeting player who possibly have yet reached their full potential, and a bit of an unknown name outside their own country (e.g. Earls, Snyman, Adriannse) . These type of signing would probably represent better value for money…..With having them on trial and not initially committed to a contract, can only see it as a win win situation for the Blues.

I don't see much problem in taking a look at a few players in a risk free trial, developing links with other clubs/leagues along the way. As long as there's no promising WQ players pushing for a place in that position then I don't mind.
For example I'd be annoyed if the blues were looking at giving a trial to a lock, backrow forward or a flyhalf, as there are plenty of up and coming Welsh players pushing in those positions for the Blues.

But anything that can help strengthen them and give the other promising players a platform to allow them to play better is a good thing.

On the other hand I doubt they'll get more than above Prem level squad filler...

I agree, SP. The idea with this scouting network should be to bring in players who can add to the squad and will provide genuine competition for places.

For instance, the blues have the following centres:

Jamie Roberts
Gavin Evans
Dafydd Hewitt
Cory Allen

You have 3 players there who are all similar players, there isn't a lot of flair between them and Allen is only 19. I wouldn't be opposed to going to NZ and looking for a 13 who can bring something extra to the back line, the ability to step through people and get the ball away like Casey did for us when he was at the blues.

Problem is the regions don't have the money to get these guys anymore like Regan King, Casey L etc.

Paterson is probably the last high profile foreign player you'll see at the Blues for a while.

And we can't wait for him to come back

Well if the dual contract Roberts is rumoured to have coming his way, that should free up some money for wages. And with Cuthbert and 1/2p both in a similar position to Jamie, i could see the WRU getting both of them on a dual contract as well.

The WRU might give Roberts a dual contract and then say with the money saved from that they need to put it towards Halfpennys and/or Cuthberts contracts - I can't really see them giving the Blues this money just so they can bring in extra players.

I'm not sure the WRU will go through with the dual contracts to be honest.

If they give the Blues one for Roberts, the Dragons have already started making noise about Lydiate, Faletau will probably be soon after, then Jonathan Davies at the Scarlets etc...

I don't think the WRU have the money to compete with the French clubs.

gowales wrote:I'm not sure the WRU will go through with the dual contracts to be honest.

If they give the Blues one for Roberts, the Dragons have already started making noise about Lydiate, Faletau will probably be soon after, then Jonathan Davies at the Scarlets etc...

I don't think the WRU have the money to compete with the French clubs.

Last year the WRU spent £2.4m doing up the hospitality boxes in the MillStad.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:The WRU might give Roberts a dual contract and then say with the money saved from that they need to put it towards Halfpennys and/or Cuthberts contracts - I can't really see them giving the Blues this money just so they can bring in extra players.

I believe we're going to start seeing these dual contracts cropping up for wales players. Wait until they're in the final year of their contract and then move them over on to a dual contract.

To be honest the WRU don't need to keep up with the huge wages in France. We need to let players know that the if they want to play for Wales, and Wales wants them to play for us, then they need to sign a contract with the WRU. Then if someone chooses money of their nation that is sadly their loss and we will all know that they are a souless merc.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:To be honest the WRU don't need to keep up with the huge wages in France. We need to let players know that the if they want to play for Wales, and Wales wants them to play for us, then they need to sign a contract with the WRU. Then if someone chooses money of their nation that is sadly their loss and we will all know that they are a souless merc.

The alternative viewpoint is why should a player give up hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to play for his country?

Yeah the problem is that in a short rugby career that could end at any point, a player may decide at 28/29 that the double amount of wages they could earn for a 2 year stint in France is too good to refuse (after refusing for years) especially with it coming with enough time to recuperate throughout the season if they haven't got int rugby to concentrate on.

Then they'd come back 2 years later to fight for their place, financially set up for life.

The problem for us however is that we currently don't have the strength in depth to lose lots of our players for 2 years at a time. Maybe in 5 years we might (prob not in a significant number of positions).

The nightmare scenario for me as a Dragons fan is that Dan Lydiate and Toby Faletau get central contracts but the WRU moves them to another region.

Which is why Dual contracts would work for the regions, there's no way a player can be moved around that way.

Yup dual contracts seem the way to go, definately. How much do people reckon Roberts (and the other players) will get off the WRU? a 100k, 80k or even 150k?

Why would one of the four want a dual contracted player? Unless, of course, they were getting a total bargain.

The present access to these players isn't enough and if the WRU had primacy of contract then the access would be even less. Then you add in the nonsense, as seen with Iestyn Harris, about where and when these players are to play.

Roberts would probably be worth 300k+ so 150K would be the minimum the WRU should pay imo. In world cup years i would bump that up considerably.

I suppose if the regions were only paying roughly half of the wages for their top star or two, then that additional money could allow them to bring through another 3 or 4 academy prospects/young players and would give more cover for the increasing absences the international players would be away

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I suppose if the regions were only paying roughly half of the wages for their top star or two, then that additional money could allow them to bring through another 3 or 4 academy prospects/young players and would give more cover for the increasing absences the international players would be away

I would expect you to be able to pick up a player around Iongi level (only using him as an example) from outside if needs be for about half a Foxy/Roberts wage.

Rumour is that both of the romanian props will be turning out for the Rags this weekend in the BIC.

Spoiler:

That's one of them, Andrei Ursache. Certainly looks a big lad, but can he scrummage?