Price Harrison and Degale Live fight thread

[AlexHuckerby]

First topic message reminder :

Skelton just beat up a Croatian window cleaner, apparently that means he should fight the winner of Price Harrison.... God help us...

[azania]

Cut the name calling lads. Interesting debate and that I agree with Happy says something. The difference is quality of opposition. Froch didn't have a major fight in his 10th fight. Ward didn't win a national title or fight a highly rated prospect in his 11th fight. DeGale is matched tougher at the same stage of their respective careers.

Froch fought the perennial Irish fool who DeGale would KO if they fought tomorrow early and won in the 12th with that uppercut.

God knows who AA was fighting but I reckon some Polish builder moonlighting.

Fast track. Amateur gold medallist, golden boy of domestic British boxing etc.

Ward was a Gold medalist also.

[Cast a Shadow]

I'm going to stop responding to you Happy, not because you're right, on the contrary - you're wrong. Very wrong. To even say Degale is a "novice" at 15 fights is utterly ridiculous. He's had 15 fights. He's gone life and death in 3 of them. In the next 5 fights he should be challenging for a world title. Around 20 - 25 is where I'd say this "trajectory" should be putting him. He's STRUGGLING at Euro level. Do you not see this? I'm not saying he should be World Level right now, but he damn sure shouldn't be making fights against tonights opposition as close as it SHOULD have been scored.

You started with the random stats (considering none of the boxers I mentioned are "40 fight pros" - AA has had 38 fights, but Ward at 26 and Froch at 31 are some way off 40.) And the fact is

Same level - Ward was coasting.

Same level - Froch was coasting

Same Level - Abraham was coasting.

Same Level - Groves IS coasting

Same level - Degale is STRUGGLING.

Is this too difficult for you to comprehend? How can you resort to childish name calling like "knob" and "hater" just because you're losing an argument and then proceed to tell someone to "grow up"

You're making this personal you sad act, leave it be before you start looking silly. Theres bigger bullies than you on this forum that I've put up with. Much bigger.

While comparisons aren't always helpful, the fact that DeGale has lost one fight (albeit narrowly) and been touch and go in two more against decent Euro level opponents, can't be ignored unless we're looking at things through union jack-tinted specs.

He won a very fortunate decision when one considers he went in as the challenger - I thought the Pole was well worth a draw that night and even had him in serious trouble at one point.

Tonight was the odd powder-puff flurry while more meaningful shots came back. Again, a draw would have been a fair result.

The actual scoring ultimately does no favours and the delusion that all is well will continue until someone with some serious TNT in his hands brings a dose of reality into the situation.

This is James' level, which is a situation most pros would kill for - he just needs to stop talking world title fights unless Stieglitz gets his hands on the WBO strap again...

[Guest]

The way Boxnation were praising Audley for going out on his shield??? Laughable coverage as usual

I caught the highlights, albeit in slow motion, on YouTube earlier and was rather dismayed by the commentary when he was leaving the arena. Glad I'm not alone in this thought. Did he even have a shield?

Went out on his... Drawing Board???

I can imagine he's spent half of his purses on pens for that now infamous drawing board.

[Happytravelling]

Cut the name calling lads. Interesting debate and that I agree with Happy says something. The difference is quality of opposition. Froch didn't have a major fight in his 10th fight. Ward didn't win a national title or fight a highly rated prospect in his 11th fight. DeGale is matched tougher at the same stage of their respective careers.

Froch fought the perennial Irish fool who DeGale would KO if they fought tomorrow early and won in the 12th with that uppercut.

God knows who AA was fighting but I reckon some Polish builder moonlighting.

Az, that must hurt! That's twice in one night you've had to make a painful admission! ;-)

I just have no patience for people who just want to stretch reality to prove their petty point. These lads just don't like Degale and even if he was solving world hunger and winning world titles up to heavy weight they would still say he wasn't doing it in the right style.

The dragging out of dubious stats was just embarrassing.

[JabMachineMK2]

Your stats make no sense. None. Most domestic boxers (certainly in the last 10 years) have had domestic honors within 13 or so fights. Leon Spinks beat a faded Ali. An Ali at the end of his career. He then proceeded to lose afterwards, but he was fighting the best heavyweight we've ever seen.

I've never even heard of Paul Weir, but I'm guessing the quality at minimumweight isn't exactly stacked.

My stats aren't dubious, they're actual stats. Degale is struggling, the others coasted.

[Cast a Shadow]

The way Boxnation were praising Audley for going out on his shield??? Laughable coverage as usual

I caught the highlights, albeit in slow motion, on YouTube earlier and was rather dismayed by the commentary when he was leaving the arena. Glad I'm not alone in this thought. Did he even have a shield?

Went out on his... Drawing Board???

I can imagine he's spent half of his purses on pens for that now infamous drawing board.

The penny re:- professional boxing seemed to drop with Audley when it was too late. He was never long-reigning world champion material, but should have done a lot better than he actually did.

A really sad story, and he seems now to be sufficiently self-aware to realise there's nobody else to blame.

[azania]

Sorry but DeGale won his belt clearly. The fight with Groves could have gone either way (I had Groves winning by 1 so no Degale love fest but an honest opinion)

Those so called powder puff punches would have decked and stopped many others. This dude was teak tough. A draw would have been a travesty. DeGale was a clear winner.

[JabMachineMK2]

Unless of course the stats are lies, and Degale hasn't struggled in his last 3 fights, and Wards TKO's should be re-written as Majority decisions and losses?

I'm aware also Az that Ward was a gold medallist, but he didn't exactly have the character and charisma that Degale brought, he's been largely ignored by America and lets be honest, they've got a much deeper pool of talent at the weight, or did - bigger Fish to fry, people like RJJ, BHop, Dawson etc

[azania]

Cut the name calling lads. Interesting debate and that I agree with Happy says something. The difference is quality of opposition. Froch didn't have a major fight in his 10th fight. Ward didn't win a national title or fight a highly rated prospect in his 11th fight. DeGale is matched tougher at the same stage of their respective careers.

Froch fought the perennial Irish fool who DeGale would KO if they fought tomorrow early and won in the 12th with that uppercut.

God knows who AA was fighting but I reckon some Polish builder moonlighting.

Az, that must hurt! That's twice in one night you've had to make a painful admission! ;-)

I just have no patience for people who just want to stretch reality to prove their petty point. These lads just don't like Degale and even if he was solving world hunger and winning world titles up to heavy weight they would still say he wasn't doing it in the right style.

The dragging out of dubious stats was just embarrassing.

It wont happen again. I'll make sure of that. Even if I have to make sh.t up.

[azania]

Unless of course the stats are lies, and Degale hasn't struggled in his last 3 fights, and Wards TKO's should be re-written as Majority decisions and losses?

That depends on what you mean by struggled. If he struggled against McGee then ou would have a point. But this guy was tough and strong. Apparently he was clearly robbed in his previous fight and therefore has some form. DeGale's previous opponent stood with AA for 12 rounds so was no pushover. And of course Groves is world class and fought him in his 11th or 12th fight. Very tough matchmaking in anyone's eyes. He should have an easy night next time with an opponent designed to make him look good.

[Happytravelling]

I'm going to stop responding to you Happy, not because you're right, on the contrary - you're wrong. Very wrong. To even say Degale is a "novice" at 15 fights is utterly ridiculous. He's had 15 fights. He's gone life and death in 3 of them. In the next 5 fights he should be challenging for a world title. Around 20 - 25 is where I'd say this "trajectory" should be putting him. He's STRUGGLING at Euro level. Do you not see this? I'm not saying he should be World Level right now, but he damn sure shouldn't be making fights against tonights opposition as close as it SHOULD have been scored.

You started with the random stats (considering none of the boxers I mentioned are "40 fight pros" - AA has had 38 fights, but Ward at 26 and Froch at 31 are some way off 40.) And the fact is

Same level - Ward was coasting.

Same level - Froch was coasting

Same Level - Abraham was coasting.

Same Level - Groves IS coasting

Same level - Degale is STRUGGLING.

Is this too difficult for you to comprehend? How can you resort to childish name calling like "knob" and "hater" just because you're losing an argument and then proceed to tell someone to "grow up"

You're making this personal you sad act, leave it be before you start looking silly. Theres bigger bullies than you on this forum that I've put up with. Much bigger.

While comparisons aren't always helpful, the fact that DeGale has lost one fight (albeit narrowly) and been touch and go in two more against decent Euro level opponents, can't be ignored unless we're looking at things through union jack-tinted specs.

He won a very fortunate decision when one considers he went in as the challenger - I thought the Pole was well worth a draw that night and even had him in serious trouble at one point.

Tonight was the odd powder-puff flurry while more meaningful shots came back. Again, a draw would have been a fair result.

The actual scoring ultimately does no favours and the delusion that all is well will continue until someone with some serious TNT in his hands brings a dose of reality into the situation.

This is James' level, which is a situation most pros would kill for - he just needs to stop talking world title fights unless Stieglitz gets his hands on the WBO strap again...

Hopkins lost his first fight. So yes, stats aren't that helpful. I agree it is becoming obvious he hasn't huge amounts of power but I take exception that he is a powder puff puncher. It doesn't look like he will be a concussive puncher but certainly has the combinations etc to KO people. And it is still early. His power may develop.

Just watch his career and see how it develops before you bury him.

[Guest]

Regarding Audley do you guys think that if he wasn't so bad he wouldn't have actually become the draw that he has been in terms of interest?

Has being that awful actually benefited him?

[AlexHuckerby]

The way Boxnation were praising Audley for going out on his shield??? Laughable coverage as usual

I caught the highlights, albeit in slow motion, on YouTube earlier and was rather dismayed by the commentary when he was leaving the arena. Glad I'm not alone in this thought. Did he even have a shield?

Went out on his... Drawing Board???

I can imagine he's spent half of his purses on pens for that now infamous drawing board.

The penny re:- professional boxing seemed to drop with Audley when it was too late. He was never long-reigning world champion material, but should have done a lot better than he actually did.

A really sad story, and he seems now to be sufficiently self-aware to realise there's nobody else to blame.

He's made millions from abysmal performance to abysmal performance, can't feel too sorry for him in truth. But I do have a soft spot for Audley.

[JabMachineMK2]

Unless of course the stats are lies, and Degale hasn't struggled in his last 3 fights, and Wards TKO's should be re-written as Majority decisions and losses?

That depends on what you mean by struggled. If he struggled against McGee then ou would have a point. But this guy was tough and strong. Apparently he was clearly robbed in his previous fight and therefore has some form. DeGale's previous opponent stood with AA for 12 rounds so was no pushover. And of course Groves is world class and fought him in his 11th or 12th fight. Very tough matchmaking in anyone's eyes. He should have an easy night next time with an opponent designed to make him look good.

He was lucky against the pole too, but showed more grit and determination - he also did better against Groves but did struggle against McGee. He showed his style against Paul Smith, but he's always been domestic level.

I'd like to actually say, I don't "hate" Degale, I just don;t see him going much further considering his form.

[eddyfightfan]

the pole and frenchy have both been tough come forward fighters, so he would always struggle against people like that

[Cast a Shadow]

Sorry but DeGale won his belt clearly. The fight with Groves could have gone either way (I had Groves winning by 1 so no Degale love fest but an honest opinion)

Those so called powder puff punches would have decked and stopped many others. This dude was teak tough. A draw would have been a travesty. DeGale was a clear winner.

One of the judges scored the Wilcewski fight as a draw, the other two gave it to James 115-113.

Nothing clear about it even with the home scoring.

Of course he was in with a tough challenger tonight, but then he's up at a seriously good level now - tough and durable opposition is to be expected.

The lack of improvement in 15 fights is another worrying aspect - still making the same mistakes and no improvement in terms of stamina or work rate.

However you had the fight, I can't see a clear winner one way or the other. It was very close.

So few fighters make it to Euro/fringe world level that it's often forgotten that it still puts them top 10-15 in the world. I just happen to think that's where he is at the moment, and he might never reach a higher level than that.

[azania]

Unless of course the stats are lies, and Degale hasn't struggled in his last 3 fights, and Wards TKO's should be re-written as Majority decisions and losses?

That depends on what you mean by struggled. If he struggled against McGee then ou would have a point. But this guy was tough and strong. Apparently he was clearly robbed in his previous fight and therefore has some form. DeGale's previous opponent stood with AA for 12 rounds so was no pushover. And of course Groves is world class and fought him in his 11th or 12th fight. Very tough matchmaking in anyone's eyes. He should have an easy night next time with an opponent designed to make him look good.

He was lucky against the pole too, but showed more grit and determination - he also did better against Groves but did struggle against McGee. He showed his style against Paul Smith, but he's always been domestic level.

I'd like to actually say, I don't "hate" Degale, I just don;t see him going much further considering his form.

Sorry mate, that sounds like borderline hater stuff. He won clearly against the Pole. Struggled against McGee? He hasn't fought McGee. Smith was a seasoned pro and Brit Champ. DeGale schooled him in his 9th fight. 9th fight mate. Give credit where it's due.

[Happytravelling]

Your stats make no sense. None. Most domestic boxers (certainly in the last 10 years) have had domestic honors within 13 or so fights. Leon Spinks beat a faded Ali. An Ali at the end of his career. He then proceeded to lose afterwards, but he was fighting the best heavyweight we've ever seen.

I've never even heard of Paul Weir, but I'm guessing the quality at minimumweight isn't exactly stacked.

My stats aren't dubious, they're actual stats. Degale is struggling, the others coasted.

Sorry, Your still a knob. Never heard of Paul Weir? My stats were just to poke fun at yours. We can all quote disingenuous stats. Ali lost to neon leon in his 7th fight and Hopkins lost his first fight... you outline the prodegies that have won domestic titles by their 13th fight and I'll get on boxrec and find you 10 who didn't.

Your stats are dubious because they are cherry picked to prove your anti Degale point. Not because they aren't true. At what fight did the greatest SMW's win their titles, Roy Jones and Joe C? Give us those stats... and other SMW stats. Not just the ones you "like"...

[JabMachineMK2]

Haha I read what you wrote and meant to put Wilchewski(I'm sure I'm spelling that wrong)

I'm not discrediting Degales first 10 fights, honestly I'm not, he did really well - but the second he stepped past domestic, he's struggled (Sanavia aside)

[azania]

Sorry but DeGale won his belt clearly. The fight with Groves could have gone either way (I had Groves winning by 1 so no Degale love fest but an honest opinion)

Those so called powder puff punches would have decked and stopped many others. This dude was teak tough. A draw would have been a travesty. DeGale was a clear winner.

One of the judges scored the Wilcewski fight as a draw, the other two gave it to James 115-113.

Nothing clear about it even with the home scoring.

Of course he was in with a tough challenger tonight, but then he's up at a seriously good level now - tough and durable opposition is to be expected.

The lack of improvement in 15 fights is another worrying aspect - still making the same mistakes and no improvement in terms of stamina or work rate.

However you had the fight, I can't see a clear winner one way or the other. It was very close.

So few fighters make it to Euro/fringe world level that it's often forgotten that it still puts them top 10-15 in the world. I just happen to think that's where he is at the moment, and he might never reach a higher level than that.

Yeah, and one of the judges scored it 119-109 today. You can't pick and choose when you want to use score cards as evidence of closeness of a fight.

Lack of improvement? He's fighting better opponents. If he was fighting a super mid version of audley and struggled, then you would be correct. He fought against a guy coming in to win not a seasoned opponent there to lose.

DeGale is after Froch the next best SMW. He would beat Groves. Plus lets not forget he got rid of ring rust also. Not fought in a year.

[AlexHuckerby]

Thing is, the tough durable opposition for a supposed future world champ is generally when the real "mustard" put on good performances. Like Groves in his last fight, we're yet to see that off Degale since he moved to Euro level.

I wouldn't coung him out yet of course, I think he has still got masses of potential, just maybe he's not using a style that uses his attributes well enough, similar to guys like Wlad at this stage.

[azania]

Haha I read what you wrote and meant to put Wilchewski(I'm sure I'm spelling that wrong)

I'm not discrediting Degales first 10 fights, honestly I'm not, he did really well - but the second he stepped past domestic, he's struggled (Sanavia aside)

He's beating better opponents. Fighters are tougher and he's been out of the ring for a year. That Pole he beat was not some plumber there to lose. He went 12 with AA and thus proved his grapefruits and durability. It seems if the favourite doesn't score a spectacular KO or win 10 of 12 rounds, he's crap.

[azania]

Thing is, the tough durable opposition for a supposed future world champ is generally when the real "mustard" put on good performances. Like Groves in his last fight, we're yet to see that off Degale since he moved to Euro level.

I wouldn't coung him out yet of course, I think he has still got masses of potential, just maybe he's not using a style that uses his attributes well enough, similar to guys like Wlad at this stage.

Sorry Alex, Groves' last oponent was crap. He went into that fight off a one round KO loss. Groves took 6.

He has been out of the ring for a year. He did what he had to do and won. A great fight also. Name me a better fight in the UK this year. I'll add that these types of fights are better for him that a one round blow out designed to massage his ego.

[JabMachineMK2]

I gave you current, and cut out the name calling, it makes you look juvenile.

Joe Calzaghe won his world title in his 23rd fight. He was fighting 5 times a year. 21 by KO up to that point. Easy peasy. He probably boxed less rounds in 23 fights than Degale has in 10. (not exactly but you get my point)

That stat ok?

Roy Jones (one of my favorite boxers of all time) - first title in 22 fights. Knocking people out for fun. Again, less rounds in 22 fights than in Degales 10. (agian not exactly but you get my point)

They made their early career look like childs play. Degale hasn't. Thats my point.

I didn't want to have to bring in Big Joe and Roy Jones because I don't want to compare them with James Degale this early - as they're 2 of the best boxers of the past 10 years, but you did make me.

So, Degale - struggled.

RJJ and JC - Blitzed through their opposition.

[Cast a Shadow]

Regarding Audley do you guys think that if he wasn't so bad he wouldn't have actually become the draw that he has been in terms of interest?

Has being that awful actually benefited him?

A bloody good question - had his performances been just slightly better than they actually were (ie not sufficiently to actually have 4 or 5 world level fights in his career) then you might be onto something. He could have wound up as a sort of fringe level gatekeeper whose career was a bit of a disappointment, but not a spectacular failure as is perceived. Fighters like that tend to fade into obscurity somewhat.

It's forgotten by some that he did pick up the Euro title and a couple of fringe belts, which is more than most pros can realistically hope for. It wasn't all bad, but fell so far short of what was expected, and what he claimed he would achieve himself, that the disasters are all that people remember.

To turn the question on its head, I'd say that the occasional strong performance, littered in with mediocrity and no-shows, created the 'car crash' element that made the latter stages of Audley's career a guilty pleasure for many. The whole 'which Audley will turn up?' angle sold his fights as many of us felt there was a performance in there somewhere.

As time has gone on I think he's developed more self-awareness and a solid relationship with the truth, which was lacking to some extent in the past. When he admitted this week that he'd spent years lying to himself, it struck me as the words of a man who realised he'd messed up and had nobody else to blame.

I mean, how the hell do you end up being jeered while unconscious and receiving an oxygen mask?

[azania]

I gave you current, and cut out the name calling, it makes you look juvenile.

Joe Calzaghe won his world title in his 23rd fight. He was fighting 5 times a year. 21 by KO up to that point. Easy peasy. He probably boxed less rounds in 23 fights than Degale has in 10.

That stat ok?

Roy Jones (one of my favorite boxers of all time) - first title in 22 fights. Knocking people out for fun. Again, less rounds in 22 fights than in Degales 10.

They made their early career look like childs play. Degale hasn't. Thats my point.

I didn't want to have to bring in Big Joe and Roy Jones because I don;t want to compare them with james Degale this early - as they're 2 of the best boxers of the past 10 years, but you did make me.

So, Degale - struggled.

RJJ and JC - Blitzed through their opposition.

DeGale has had management issues hence his infrequency n fights. RJJ was a special talent. Very unfair to compare (which is what you did). I don't think RJJ lost a round as a pro until he lost 3 against Hopkins.

[JabMachineMK2]

I gave you current, and cut out the name calling, it makes you look juvenile.

Joe Calzaghe won his world title in his 23rd fight. He was fighting 5 times a year. 21 by KO up to that point. Easy peasy. He probably boxed less rounds in 23 fights than Degale has in 10.

That stat ok?

Roy Jones (one of my favorite boxers of all time) - first title in 22 fights. Knocking people out for fun. Again, less rounds in 22 fights than in Degales 10.

They made their early career look like childs play. Degale hasn't. Thats my point.

I didn't want to have to bring in Big Joe and Roy Jones because I don;t want to compare them with James Degale this early - as they're 2 of the best boxers of the past 10 years, but you did make me.

So, Degale - struggled.

RJJ and JC - Blitzed through their opposition.

DeGale has had management issues hence his infrequency n fights. RJJ was a special talent. Very unfair to compare (which is what you did). I don't think RJJ lost a round as a pro until he lost 3 against Hopkins.

I didn't bring in RJJ, my mate HappySlapping did. I gave the "dubious stats" about current SMW's that Degale is likely to face for a belt in the next 1/2 years.

[azania]

What you're ignoring is ring rust and tougher fighters as opponents. This french gy was no slough. Plus I reckon deGale would handle Kenny Anderson pretty easily.

[Happytravelling]

I gave you current, and cut out the name calling, it makes you look juvenile.

Joe Calzaghe won his world title in his 23rd fight. He was fighting 5 times a year. 21 by KO up to that point. Easy peasy. He probably boxed less rounds in 23 fights than Degale has in 10. (not exactly but you get my point)

That stat ok?

Roy Jones (one of my favorite boxers of all time) - first title in 22 fights. Knocking people out for fun. Again, less rounds in 22 fights than in Degales 10. (agian not exactly but you get my point)

They made their early career look like childs play. Degale hasn't. Thats my point.

I didn't want to have to bring in Big Joe and Roy Jones because I don;t want to compare them with james Degale this early - as they're 2 of the best boxers of the past 10 years, but you did make me.

So, Degale - struggled.

RJJ and JC - Blitzed through their opposition.

That wasn't the question. Where were they at Degale's stage.... after 13 fights.... as I said, after 20 fights a lot are contending for world titles. But tell me, where were these boxers after 13 fights.... well, I know JC had only just fought for his first British title... go on and prove to me you're not a bitter hater... or knob as I called you...

[AlexHuckerby]

Thing is, the tough durable opposition for a supposed future world champ is generally when the real "mustard" put on good performances. Like Groves in his last fight, we're yet to see that off Degale since he moved to Euro level.

I wouldn't coung him out yet of course, I think he has still got masses of potential, just maybe he's not using a style that uses his attributes well enough, similar to guys like Wlad at this stage.

Sorry Alex, Groves' last oponent was crap. He went into that fight off a one round KO loss. Groves took 6.

He has been out of the ring for a year. He did what he had to do and won. A great fight also. Name me a better fight in the UK this year. I'll add that these types of fights are better for him that a one round blow out designed to massage his ego.

Don't think his opponent was crap at all, Groves also was coming off a bit of a layoff if you remember. Difference of opinion I guess. I do think Degale's opponent tonight was good and came to win and very strong, but he was barely at Euro level in terms of his skill in my view.

Oh and Brook/Jones was way better in my opinion.

[Cast a Shadow]

What you're ignoring is ring rust and tougher fighters as opponents. This french gy was no slough. Plus I reckon deGale would handle Kenny Anderson pretty easily.

He was in with a guy who was tough as they come, but very limited technically.

A fighter looking to move up to world level should be scoring a near shut-out, controlling the fight and dictating tempo. Too often he was dragged into the contest the other man wanted and that's a recurring theme in DeGale fights.

[Happytravelling]

I gave you current, and cut out the name calling, it makes you look juvenile.

Joe Calzaghe won his world title in his 23rd fight. He was fighting 5 times a year. 21 by KO up to that point. Easy peasy. He probably boxed less rounds in 23 fights than Degale has in 10. (not exactly but you get my point)

That stat ok?

Roy Jones (one of my favorite boxers of all time) - first title in 22 fights. Knocking people out for fun. Again, less rounds in 22 fights than in Degales 10. (agian not exactly but you get my point)

They made their early career look like childs play. Degale hasn't. Thats my point.

I didn't want to have to bring in Big Joe and Roy Jones because I don't want to compare them with James Degale this early - as they're 2 of the best boxers of the past 10 years, but you did make me.

So, Degale - struggled.

RJJ and JC - Blitzed through their opposition.

And your favourite RJJ didn't fight for a title till his 19th fight... as I said, get a grip and don't be a hater/knob.

[azania]

Yes he was coming off a layoff, but the guy was coming off a one round ko loss. Plus it was Groves debut in USA. As a prospect they are hardly going to match him against someone who wouldn't make him look bad. He is a Warren fighter after all.

Next he'll be fighting the last of the milkmen.

I'll grant you the Brook/Jones fight. This was also a cracking fight.

[JabMachineMK2]

Both had been smashing through domestic opposition.

Degale hasn't done that. So because I call into question your claims he'll hold a World Title soon I'm a "hater" or "knob"? Not once has I referenced anything that shows as personal dislike, although if you're honest with yourself, I perhaps could. Degale has been matched harder, I don't deny it, but he's struggling. RJJ didn't struggle for some time. 13 fights or 25 fights, he was still rocking it. Same with JC. Ward, Froch and AA (being current and not nostalgic) were doing the same and have done the same.

I want Degale to do well, but he won't. He's not good enough. Thats fact, he showed it tonight. Rust or no rust, he's a pro boxer, and should have been sparring for 12 rounds to be used to the pace. He shouldn't have boxed off the ropes (his trainers thoughts also) and made this fight a lot closer than he should.

[JabMachineMK2]

And your favourite RJJ didn't fight for a title till his 19th fight... as I said, get a grip and don't be a hater/knob.

20th**

But of course I went by memory, a quick Wiki check and we got there in the end.

Simple fact, and stat - blitzed through opponents.

[azania]

Both had been smashing through domestic opposition.

Degale hasn't done that. So because I call into question your claims he'll hold a World Title soon I'm a "hater" or "knob"? Not once has I referenced anything that shows as personal dislike, although if you're honest with yourself, I perhaps could. Degale has been matched harder, I don't deny it, but he's struggling. RJJ didn't struggle for some time. 13 fights or 25 fights, he was still rocking it. Same with JC. Ward, Froch and AA (being current and not nostalgic) were doing the same and have done the same.

I want Degale to do well, but he won't. He's not good enough. Thats fact, he showed it tonight. Rust or no rust, he's a pro boxer, and should have been sparring for 12 rounds to be used to the pace. He shouldn't have boxed off the ropes (his trainers thoughts also) and made this fight a lot closer than he should.

JC was fighting dross at the same stage. Yes he looked good doing so, but dross is dross.

[JabMachineMK2]

JC was fighting dross at the same stage. Yes he looked good doing so, but dross is dross.

So what is it? He's either blitzed through opposition that shouldn't have been in the same ring and had little experience until he stepped up, or he's not. James Degale has stepped up earlier in terms of fight nights (not in ring experience really) and struggled.

Are we really comparing these two? I didn't bring about the comparison by the way, I feel its very unfair on Degale at this stage to put him in the same sentence, wheras its fair to compare him to todays champions.

[Happytravelling]

Both had been smashing through domestic opposition.

Degale hasn't done that. So because I call into question your claims he'll hold a World Title soon I'm a "hater" or "knob"? Not once has I referenced anything that shows as personal dislike, although if you're honest with yourself, I perhaps could. Degale has been matched harder, I don't deny it, but he's struggling. RJJ didn't struggle for some time. 13 fights or 25 fights, he was still rocking it. Same with JC. Ward, Froch and AA (being current and not nostalgic) were doing the same and have done the same.

I want Degale to do well, but he won't. He's not good enough. Thats fact, he showed it tonight. Rust or no rust, he's a pro boxer, and should have been sparring for 12 rounds to be used to the pace. He shouldn't have boxed off the ropes (his trainers thoughts also) and made this fight a lot closer than he should.

I never said he will hold a world title soon. I just said wait and see. You are predicting his future and generating dubious stats relating him to selected boxers. So yes, I think you are a knob because you are playing the cheap pier side fortune teller. I am old enough to have seen people like yourself say Hamed was too cocky and the K bros didn't have the right temperament. So now, just hush up and accept that if you don't know who paul wier is you probably don't have an experience of boxing to predict where 13 fight novices will be in 2 years time. Because I, as a person who has followed boxing for 25yrs certainly doesn't think I can, why should you?

[azania]

DeGale has stepped up against a higher caliber of opposition. JC is the better boxer from what I see. Similar styles also. But JC had better output and stamina. But to be so critical of DeGale after a year out and against a good opponent is severe. I don't think JC fought many guys like this even during his title reign.

[JabMachineMK2]

You're the one doing the brush tarring HappySlapper, not me. My point, on evidence presented, Degale isn't going to go very far. I'm allowed to have an opinion and how very arrogant of you to tell me I'm not allowed and that this makes me a "knob" because I dare to use a fighters record as a yardstick to judge him by. Hamed and the Kbro's are not comparable, because you're citing their personality and not their in ring ability (subjective matters) rather than hard facts and again, not really something I've done.

So your point is, because I haven't heard of Paul Weir, I'm not allowed to have an opinion of a boxer I've watched every single fight of? You're arrogant, disrespectful and frankly, a waste of my time. For the record, if you're old enough to cite 25 years hardcore watching boxing experience - I'm shocked you would resort to name calling and the term "hater" - I wouldn't use that term and I'm 27.

Good day (classic WUM by the way, I took all the bait right until the end!)

[AlexHuckerby]

I think you're overrating this french guy, Az, his stamina and will to win are to be commended, but his actual ability and technique didn't appear to be all that impressive.

[Guest]

Regarding Audley do you guys think that if he wasn't so bad he wouldn't have actually become the draw that he has been in terms of interest?

Has being that awful actually benefited him?

A bloody good question - had his performances been just slightly better than they actually were (ie not sufficiently to actually have 4 or 5 world level fights in his career) then you might be onto something. He could have wound up as a sort of fringe level gatekeeper whose career was a bit of a disappointment, but not a spectacular failure as is perceived. Fighters like that tend to fade into obscurity somewhat.

It's forgotten by some that he did pick up the Euro title and a couple of fringe belts, which is more than most pros can realistically hope for. It wasn't all bad, but fell so far short of what was expected, and what he claimed he would achieve himself, that the disasters are all that people remember.

To turn the question on its head, I'd say that the occasional strong performance, littered in with mediocrity and no-shows, created the 'car crash' element that made the latter stages of Audley's career a guilty pleasure for many. The whole 'which Audley will turn up?' angle sold his fights as many of us felt there was a performance in there somewhere.

As time has gone on I think he's developed more self-awareness and a solid relationship with the truth, which was lacking to some extent in the past. When he admitted this week that he'd spent years lying to himself, it struck me as the words of a man who realised he'd messed up and had nobody else to blame.

I mean, how the hell do you end up being jeered while unconscious and receiving an oxygen mask?

I suppose you could say I am somewhat of a casual boxing fan but I work with blokes who have no interest in the sport whatsoever yet will say to me "Audley Harrison is fighting Saturday night, I hope he gets knocked out, he's crap..blah..blah..blah" which says to me that he has transcended in a way that perhaps no other fighter in this country ever has?

Has there ever been a fighter in history that could sell a fight like Audley? I brought into his hype going into the Haye fight and actually believed he might actually pull off an upset! Hook, line and sinker...

I'm sure there are journeymen out there with a whole lot more talent than Audley that have made a whole lot less financially but god has he made good!

[eddyfightfan]

while there are people like buncey the casual fan will always swallow this bs

[Guest]

while there are people like buncey the casual fan will always swallow this bs

God, Steve Bunce! He does a segment on ESPN where he opinionates on every sport and well..... jack of all trades master of none. I feel sorry for you real boxing fans having him as a specialist.

[AlexHuckerby]

He's not taken all too serious by most fans. He's sold out an awful lot with BN.

[Guest]

He's not taken all too serious by most fans. He's sold out an awful lot with BN.

I remember reading a Frank Warren article on Bunce when he was working for the BBC during Audleys venture into the pro ranks where Warren ripped him to shreds. Is Frank his direct employer now?

[AlexHuckerby]

Warren is a small shareholder in BoxNation. So I guess.

[hampo17]

Just seen Furys comments and what a complete tool that lad is. Really hope Price knocks him in to next week but doubt Fury will take the fight. Maybe Bellew should move up to heavyweight just to knock him out, I'm sure the guys at match room would love that.

[Cast a Shadow]

Just watched price 'fight'. They were literally the first punches that price landed. Should audley even get paid?

Yes - it's not like he wasn't trying, or took a dive.

[ShahenshahG]

Yeah, Price just caught him sharpish and it was goodnight audley

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